The Biggest Complaints with N4 Multiplayer!

......from what I can see....these complaints don't have anything to do with N4 programming or software issues at all! What they are about is the following: "Gamers" who think they can install N4, run a few laps at Talledega....then jump into online races and be competitive!" Yikes....its Total Entertainment Network (TEN), N3 "crash and bash" pick up racing......all over again! DeJaVu TEN racing at Tally.....oh my God! Have we not learned anything in the three or four years this sim racing community has been racing over the Internet, in online Multiplayer? This kind of thing virtually ruined pick up racing on TEN (and WON)....and it will do it with NASCAR Racing 4, too! Why? Because we....as a sim racing community....***allow it to happen.*** Oh sure, all of us "regulars"....the "old-timers" can just go off by ourselves......race online in our little leagues and tight-nit forum groups....and "ignore" this issue.....leaving the "mess" to someone else to deal with. This is what many of us have been doing for several years now. Can we stop doing that? This is the biggest "dis-service" we can do to online sim racing! And, the surest way to ruin this activity as a viable "online sport" or hobby......is if we simply run away from this problem.....as so many of us have been doing....then it will never go away....or improve. How do we "reach" the newbie online racer........and get our message across to them loud and clear? This is particularly difficult to do without "pre-race chat rooms" which are characteristic of VROC and TEN/WON racing! In their absence......we have to rely on newsgroups (like this one) and sim racing websites....with "newbie online racing/mulitplayer" FAQ's and so forth....to get the message across loud and clear to new online drivers. But, how does the "newbie" find us.......BEFORE they spend six months racing online crashing everybody left and right? I don't know, there's no "single answer" to that problem. But, I do know that if those of us who have been racing online for a period of time just "ignore" the issue.....race only in our little "groupie" leagues and don't contribute our knowledge and experience to the general sim racing community....the "newbie" will never get the message! And, online "pick up racing" will continue to be a complete waste of time! That's too bad..... I wish that every racing simulation software.....produced.....and sold in the world ......would have the following message plastered across the face of the manual, the CD....and the back cover of the "game box"....... ****BEFORE you attempt online racing in multiplayer mode......go to www.XXXnewOnlineRacer.com and read the FAQ list "BEFORE" you attempt Multiplayer racing. You must not only read it....you must be capable of doing and performing in a manner consistent with the FAQ instructions...... during a Multiplayer race with other drivers....absolutely everything the FAQ suggests to you and requires of everyone who races online.**** Of course, not only does this URL not exist....as you probably know if you are a newbie and just clicked it......but that "message" doesn't appear on one single game box cover or sim racing manual or CD cover in existence right at the moment! The developers don't consider it to be their responsibility to "moderate" the quality of Multiplayer play in their software....and they are right about that (although there a few things they could do that would help the situation.....a few have made attempts....while Papyrus was one of the worst at doing this at one time....I now think they are one of the best). It is our responsibility.....as leaders and "experienced" sim racing drivers to do this. So......to follow my own advise....I am going to "promise" to myself and those members of the sim racing community that regularly visit and "post" on this newsgroup.......to "bring this issue up".....to educate and help....every "newbie" I detect....who makes a post on this newsgroup. That should cover the few hundred that don't make posts...but just read the postings....... too! Here's my first contribution: *****Regarding the N4 Function Keys access during online racing****** Unless you have your keyboard mounted on your race controller...with all necessary "keys" within a few inches of your fingers ....and you can activate them "by touch" without looking at your hand, or the keyboard.....or, they are mapped to your wheel buttons....then you are going to wreck a lot....and "wreck" the rest of us along with you. Please don't race online, please! You could get away with "hunt and peck" for the "display commands"......in N3 (maybe....because the car physics were much more "foregiving").........but that will never be the case in N4. NEVER! *****Did anybody pick up on Darrel Waltrip's "story" during the FOX Sports broadcast of the Goody Dash yesterday at Daytona? He was kidding about his crew chief having to get into the back seat of his race car......run laps at Tally at 220 mph...in private testing....no other cars were on the track.....so his crew chief could record the "readings" on the dash instruments. Darrel said, "Hell, I can't take my eyes of the road at those speeds long enough to look at the tach even.....except maybe to tell you what general direction its pointing....like "up" or "down".......no way I can give you the readings of all the dash instruments.....have you tried to drive this sucker and do it?" Another comment was made about trying to see how far the rpm's fall off when in the turns at Daytona........nobody says they can take their eyes off the track....especially when drafting....long enough to look at the tach! ******************So My Fellow Sim Racers********************** If the best stock car drivers in the world can't even look at the tach on their dash...right in front of their faces.......what the heck makes you think you can search around for your keyboard's F1 key.......and not crash........taking a few of us with you? Make yourself a simply mounting bracket (out of aluminum 1" strap you can buy at any hardware store in the world) for your keyboard mount.......and use it when online racing. Or....map the important function keys to your race controller wheel buttons...if it supports that option, or use headphones and a voice command program like "Game Commander." And if you are drafting me at Tally, or Daytona, or Michigan, or Charlotte.....or racing behind me at Sears Point or Watkins or Martinsville....please don't ever take your eyes off my car...even for a split second! And, unless you've been running behind me for 5 to 10 laps....and are totally sure of exaclty where and when my braking points are located on every turn.....please maintain a 5 car length distance between us until you are ready to make a "clean" pass on me! I would appreciate it.....so would everyone else who happens to be in front of you! And, if you think a good way to pass someone is by outbraking them into a tight turn....or **any turn** for that matter.......then please don't ever race in the real world....because if you don't get killed on the race track first.....you'll be killed by your fellow competitors in the pits.......eventually! No matter who you are.....this applies to Jeff Gordon as much as it applies to "Johnny Newbie"......if you wreck someone attempting an "outbraking" pass.....its your fault...and you will get your butt kicked by the person you wrecked...and then the other competitors after he is done with you! If you are new to online racing......here's a couple of "hints." If you follow some of these basic rules of racing....don't wreck people and so forth. You can race with me anytime you want. I don't care how fast you are....I care only how "safe" you are driving at any speed! You can also ask me questions and pick my brain as much as you want.....and I'll do everything I can to help you be a better, faster online sim driver. If, you ever encounter me in online racing.....unless I tell you that I am unable to help you at that moment.....and I refuse to help you or answer your questions, or at least get my email address to you so I can do it later.......then please come into this newsgroup and post my name ....LOUD and CLEARLY.....as to the fact that I would not help you! That's a "ditto" for any other experienced sim racer you run into that refuses to help you. Regards, Tom Pabst [email hidden] Pabst-Racing.com

You are not an " old timer". And beleive me, no one on TEN ever mistook you for being a sim driver. Gavel

Huh?

Excellent points, Tom. Hell, you can't even avoid the "Slinky Syndrome" on pace and yellow laps. You would think the pace car sets a different "Guess what pace speed I'm running today" pace. Slinky pace laps are worse with N4. People are getting a kick out of the new performance found and N4, and can't seem to resist the Goosing the engine to see the cockpit move back and forth. The obsolute worse problem is Lappers have completely, totally, forgotten how to yield to faster traffic. Reminds me of the left-lane blockers on the Beltway here in the DC area. And let's not forget the spinners who think they have the right-of-way to pull back onto the track in front of everyone else, and that it's OUR job to manuever around them. League racing is too limited in time and scope for me. When I wanna race, I wanna race. When I can't, I can't. I'd just like to be able to join some races and have some fun for a change, and improve my skills. Heaven help you bring any of this to anyone's attention online, though. You're immediately called a whiner, and treated as a bigger dirt-bag than the idiot that's causing all the wrecks. It don't figure... -Larry "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UGXh6.87024$[email hidden]... > ......from what I can see....these complaints don't have anything to dowith > N4 programming or software issues at all! > > What they are about is the following: > > "Gamers" who think they can install N4, run a few laps atTalledega....then

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> jump into online races and be competitive!" Yikes....its Total > Entertainment Network (TEN), N3 "crash and bash" pick up racing......all > over again! DeJaVu TEN racing at Tally.....oh my God! > > Have we not learned anything in the three or four years this sim racing > community has been racing over the Internet, in online Multiplayer? This > kind of thing virtually ruined pick up racing on TEN (and WON)....and it > will do it with NASCAR Racing 4, too! Why? Because we....as a sim racing > community....***allow it to happen.*** > > Oh sure, all of us "regulars"....the "old-timers" can just go off by > ourselves......race online in our little leagues and tight-nit forum > groups....and "ignore" this issue.....leaving the "mess" to someone else

to > deal with. This is what many of us have been doing for several years now. > Can we stop doing that? > > This is the biggest "dis-service" we can do to online sim racing! And,the > surest way to ruin this activity as a viable "online sport" orhobby......is > if we simply run away from this problem.....as so many of us have been > doing....then it will never go away....or improve. > > How do we "reach" the newbie online racer........and get our messageacross > to them loud and clear? This is particularly difficult to do without > "pre-race chat rooms" which are characteristic of VROC and TEN/WON racing! > In their absence......we have to rely on newsgroups (like this one) andsim > racing websites....with "newbie online racing/mulitplayer" FAQ's and so > forth....to get the message across loud and clear to new online drivers. > But, how does the "newbie" find us.......BEFORE they spend six monthsracing

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> online crashing everybody left and right? > > I don't know, there's no "single answer" to that problem. But, I do know > that if those of us who have been racing online for a period of time just > "ignore" the issue.....race only in our little "groupie" leagues and don't > contribute our knowledge and experience to the general sim racing > community....the "newbie" will never get the message! And, online "pick

up

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> racing" will continue to be a complete waste of time! That's too bad..... > > I wish that every racing simulation software.....produced.....and sold in > the world ......would have the following message plastered across the face > of the manual, the CD....and the back cover of the "game box"....... > > ****BEFORE you attempt online racing in multiplayer mode......go to > www.XXXnewOnlineRacer.com and read the FAQ list "BEFORE" you attempt > Multiplayer racing. You must not only read it....you must be capable of > doing and performing in a manner consistent with the FAQ

instructions......

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> during a Multiplayer race with other drivers....absolutely everything the > FAQ suggests to you and requires of everyone who races online.**** > > Of course, not only does this URL not exist....as you probably know if you > are a newbie and just clicked it......but that "message" doesn't appear on > one single game box cover or sim racing manual or CD cover in existence > right at the moment! The developers don't consider it to be their > responsibility to "moderate" the quality of Multiplayer play in their > software....and they are right about that (although there a few things

they > could do that would help the situation.....a few have madeattempts....while > Papyrus was one of the worst at doing this at one time....I now think they > are one of the best). It is our responsibility.....as leaders and > "experienced" sim racing drivers to do this. > > So......to follow my own advise....I am going to "promise" to myself and > those members of the sim racing community that regularly visit and "post"on > this newsgroup.......to "bring this issue up".....to educate and > help....every "newbie" I detect....who makes a post on this newsgroup.That

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> should cover the few hundred that don't make posts...but just read the > postings....... too! > > Here's my first contribution: > > *****Regarding the N4 Function Keys access during online racing****** > > Unless you have your keyboard mounted on your race controller...with all > necessary "keys" within a few inches of your fingers ....and you can > activate them "by touch" without looking at your hand, or the > keyboard.....or, they are mapped to your wheel buttons....then you are

going

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> to wreck a lot....and "wreck" the rest of us along with you. Please don't > race online, please! You could get away with "hunt and peck" for the > "display commands"......in N3 (maybe....because the car physics were much > more "foregiving").........but that will never be the case in N4. NEVER! > > *****Did anybody pick up on Darrel Waltrip's "story" during the FOX Sports > broadcast of the Goody Dash yesterday at Daytona? He was kidding about

his > crew chief having to get into the back seat of his race car......run lapsat > Tally at 220 mph...in private testing....no other cars were on the > track.....so his crew chief could record the "readings" on the dash > instruments. Darrel said, "Hell, I can't take my eyes of the road atthose > speeds long enough to look at the tach even.....except maybe to tell you > what general direction its pointing....like "up" or "down".......no way I > can give you the readings of all the dash instruments.....have you triedto > drive this sucker and do it?" Another comment was made about trying tosee

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> how far the rpm's fall off when in the turns at Daytona........nobody says > they can take their eyes off the track....especially when drafting....long > enough to look at the tach! > > ******************So My Fellow Sim Racers********************** > > If the best stock car drivers in the world can't even look at the tach on > their dash...right in front of their faces.......what the heck makes you > think you can search around for your keyboard's F1 key.......and not > crash........taking a few of us with you? > > Make yourself a simply mounting bracket (out of aluminum 1" strap you can > buy at any hardware store in the world) for your keyboard mount.......and > use it when online racing. Or....map the important function keys to your > race controller wheel buttons...if it supports that option, or use > headphones and a voice command program like "Game Commander." And if you > are drafting me at Tally, or Daytona, or Michigan, or Charlotte.....or > racing behind me at Sears Point or Watkins or Martinsville....please don't > ever take your eyes off my car...even for a split second! And, unless > you've been running behind me for 5 to 10 laps....and are totally sure of > exaclty where and when my braking points are located on every > turn.....please maintain a 5 car length distance between us until you are > ready to make a "clean" pass on me! I would appreciate it.....so would > everyone else who happens to be in front of you! > > And, if you think a good way to pass someone is by outbraking them into a > tight turn....or **any turn** for that matter.......then please don't ever > race in the real world....because if you don't get killed on the race

track > first.....you'll be killed by your fellow competitors in the > pits.......eventually! No matter who you are.....this applies to Jeff > Gordon as much as it applies to "Johnny Newbie"......if you wreck someone > attempting an "outbraking" pass.....its your fault...and you will get your > butt kicked by the person you wrecked...and then the other competitorsafter > he is done with you! > > If you are new to online racing......here's a couple of "hints." > > If you follow some of these basic rules of racing....don't wreck peopleand > so forth. You can race with me anytime you want. I don't care how fastyou > are....I care only how "safe" you are driving at any speed! You can also > ask me questions and pick my brain as much as you want.....and I'll do > everything I can to help you be a better, faster online sim driver. If,you > ever encounter me in online racing.....unless I tell you that I am unableto > help you at that moment.....and I refuse to help you or answer your > questions, or at least get my email address to you so I can do it > later.......then please come into this newsgroup and post my name ....LOUD > and CLEARLY.....as to the fact that I would not help you! That's a"ditto"

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> for any other experienced sim racer you run into that refuses to help you. > > Regards, > > Tom Pabst > [email hidden] > Pabst-Racing.com > > >

TEN had its group of squirrels that wound up there from begging mom or dad long enough, and getting them to pay for the membership. It really wasnt THAT bad. WON was a whole other nightmare. Hordes of folks buying their kids computers (a.k.a "The Electronic Babysitter"), and picking up N3. With N3 came free online racing..Yahoo, squirrels galore ! I hope youre not surprised by the influx of impatient folks who wanna rip the box open and become a world famous pavement pilot. Ranked , PW'ed races, and screening drivers have always been the S.O.P for clean racing, and probably will be for quite a while. Papy used to do a good job of explaining driver etiquet, but i think the best rule for newbies to gauge when to jump online would be when the can run side by side with the AI cranked up to at least 90 or 95%. I'll be honest, i havent run a driving sim since back in October. Now that N4 is out, im not gonna be jumping online until i've remember how to keep my shit straight again. (man, have i gotten rusty..damn flight sims).. My best advice if ya get dumped by a newbie, and havent had an aneurism or popped a blood vessel, explain to him what he/or she did wrong and hope they remember and pass the word on to friends. You do bring an excellent point up, that posting about online track manners and procedure is the easiest way to keep the new folks in the know. I'll bet a weeks pay that Online racing/leauge sites also have a page dedicated to informing folks of general and specific rules of the road. Perhaps they can even post links on this thread, cause im too tired to do it myself right now. Alright, i've blathered on enough. Dammit woman, wheres my meat and potatoes ?!? GMpartsguy

> League racing is too limited in time and scope for me. When I wanna race,I

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> wanna race. When I can't, I can't. I'd just like to be able to join some > races and have some fun for a change, and improve my skills. > > Heaven help you bring any of this to anyone's attention online, though. > You're immediately called a whiner, and treated as a bigger dirt-bag than > the idiot that's causing all the wrecks. >

No, not a whiner-- just not thinking realistically. Think of all the people in the world, half of whom are dunces. Think then of those who race online. Half of these are dunces. So it stands to reason that if you're looking for a pick up race, half of those you race with will just be concerned with wrecking and goofing off. Only viable solution, as always, is to find a core group and race with them. You have no other choice: it's the way the world is and it's not likely to change any time soon. Alanb

Geez, James. You're such a nice dude. "James T." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > You are the most long-winded bore I've ever seen. > > On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:27:32 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >......from what I can see....these complaints don't have anything to dowith > >N4 programming or software issues at all! > > > >What they are about is the following: > > > >"Gamers" who think they can install N4, run a few laps atTalledega....then

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> >jump into online races and be competitive!" Yikes....its Total > >Entertainment Network (TEN), N3 "crash and bash" pick up racing......all > >over again! DeJaVu TEN racing at Tally.....oh my God! > > > > Why not? It's a new game. What do you expect when you go online into > a pick up race? If you're a vet you're terribly naive to be shocked. > > >Have we not learned anything in the three or four years this sim racing > >community has been racing over the Internet, in online Multiplayer? This > >kind of thing virtually ruined pick up racing on TEN (and WON)....and it > >will do it with NASCAR Racing 4, too! Why? Because we....as a sim

racing

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> >community....***allow it to happen.*** > > > > Christ, more grandiose BS from the preacher who can't shut up. > > >Oh sure, all of us "regulars"....the "old-timers" can just go off by > >ourselves......race online in our little leagues and tight-nit forum > >groups....and "ignore" this issue.....leaving the "mess" to someone else

to > >deal with. This is what many of us have been doing for several yearsnow. > >Can we stop doing that? > > > > Shut up. > > >This is the biggest "dis-service" we can do to online sim racing! And,the > >surest way to ruin this activity as a viable "online sport" orhobby......is

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> >if we simply run away from this problem.....as so many of us have been > >doing....then it will never go away....or improve. > > > > Oh my, I feel so guilty for having forsaken the unwashed by having > partaken of private league racing. Save my soul, Tom, save my soul!! > > >How do we "reach" the newbie online racer........and get our message

across > >to them loud and clear? This is particularly difficult to do without > >"pre-race chat rooms" which are characteristic of VROC and TEN/WONracing! > >In their absence......we have to rely on newsgroups (like this one) andsim > >racing websites....with "newbie online racing/mulitplayer" FAQ's and so > >forth....to get the message across loud and clear to new online drivers. > >But, how does the "newbie" find us.......BEFORE they spend six monthsracing

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> >online crashing everybody left and right? > > > > They kneel before their bed each night and pray for deliverance from > Tom the Almighty! > > >I don't know, there's no "single answer" to that problem. But, I do know > >that if those of us who have been racing online for a period of time just > >"ignore" the issue.....race only in our little "groupie" leagues and

don't > >contribute our knowledge and experience to the general sim racing > >community....the "newbie" will never get the message! And, online "pickup > >racing" will continue to be a complete waste of time! That's toobad.....

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> > > > We tell drivers to go check out the ras newsgroup during practice. > It's really not as melodramatic as you like to make things out to be. > > >I wish that every racing simulation software.....produced.....and sold in > >the world ......would have the following message plastered across the

face > >of the manual, the CD....and the back cover of the "game box"....... > > > >****BEFORE you attempt online racing in multiplayer mode......go to > >www.XXXnewOnlineRacer.com and read the FAQ list "BEFORE" you attempt > >Multiplayer racing. You must not only read it....you must be capable of > >doing and performing in a manner consistent with the FAQinstructions......

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> >during a Multiplayer race with other drivers....absolutely everything the > >FAQ suggests to you and requires of everyone who races online.**** > > > > Or how about "before you attempt to frag someone online, go to > www.newQuakeDude.com", or "before you try to actually fly the planes > in this sim, go to "www.whichWayIsUp.com"? > > >Of course, not only does this URL not exist....as you probably know if

you > >are a newbie and just clicked it......but that "message" doesn't appearon > >one single game box cover or sim racing manual or CD cover in existence > >right at the moment! The developers don't consider it to be their > >responsibility to "moderate" the quality of Multiplayer play in their > >software....and they are right about that (although there a few thingsthey > >could do that would help the situation.....a few have madeattempts....while > >Papyrus was one of the worst at doing this at one time....I now thinkthey

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> >are one of the best). It is our responsibility.....as leaders and > >"experienced" sim racing drivers to do this. > > > > More of Tom's patented gospel. > > >So......to follow my own advise....I am going to "promise" to myself and > >those members of the sim racing community that regularly visit and "post"

on > >this newsgroup.......to "bring this issue up".....to educate and > >help....every "newbie" I detect....who makes a post on this newsgroup.That

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> >should cover the few hundred that don't make posts...but just read the > >postings....... too! > > > > The hell you will. The last thing RAS needs is a regular dose of your > long-winded verbal diarrehea. > > >Here's my first contribution: > > > > Far too long, meandering piece of typing snipped. > > Tom, your post could have been abbreviated to the following: > > ------------------- > Subject: Tips for N4 online racing newbies > > Body: > > For the benefit of those who may be new to online racing and are > currently having a blast with racing online, the following are some > sites that you may find helpful to hone your online racing skills: > > list the sites > > Tom. > -------------------- > > Y'see Tom, it really isn't hard to be short and to the point. Quit > typing from your pulpit. > > >

do drivers need to undertake NASCAR license tests to run in BGN or WC? In IRL i know they take rookie tests to see if they are quick enough, and in F1 you need a super license to race (you need to rack up something like 500miles of testing at a quick pace with consistency over 3 days i think), and i remember Nigel Mansell complaining that CART needed a super license after some guy (could have been Dennis Vitolo) landed on top of Mansells car in Indycar in 93 or 94. Anything similar in NASCAR? Itd make online races a bit better i think....you wanna race online? gota get your license :) or different grades of license for online, a rookie zone (scary), a novice zone where people have run say 20 laps offline in a set time, then progressively harder tasks for access to races. sounds good to me Pez Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UGXh6.87024$[email hidden]... > ......from what I can see....these complaints don't have anything to dowith > N4 programming or software issues at all! > > What they are about is the following: > > "Gamers" who think they can install N4, run a few laps atTalledega....then

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> jump into online races and be competitive!" Yikes....its Total > Entertainment Network (TEN), N3 "crash and bash" pick up racing......all > over again! DeJaVu TEN racing at Tally.....oh my God! > > Have we not learned anything in the three or four years this sim racing > community has been racing over the Internet, in online Multiplayer? This > kind of thing virtually ruined pick up racing on TEN (and WON)....and it > will do it with NASCAR Racing 4, too! Why? Because we....as a sim racing > community....***allow it to happen.*** > > Oh sure, all of us "regulars"....the "old-timers" can just go off by > ourselves......race online in our little leagues and tight-nit forum > groups....and "ignore" this issue.....leaving the "mess" to someone else

to > deal with. This is what many of us have been doing for several years now. > Can we stop doing that? > > This is the biggest "dis-service" we can do to online sim racing! And,the > surest way to ruin this activity as a viable "online sport" orhobby......is > if we simply run away from this problem.....as so many of us have been > doing....then it will never go away....or improve. > > How do we "reach" the newbie online racer........and get our messageacross > to them loud and clear? This is particularly difficult to do without > "pre-race chat rooms" which are characteristic of VROC and TEN/WON racing! > In their absence......we have to rely on newsgroups (like this one) andsim > racing websites....with "newbie online racing/mulitplayer" FAQ's and so > forth....to get the message across loud and clear to new online drivers. > But, how does the "newbie" find us.......BEFORE they spend six monthsracing

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> online crashing everybody left and right? > > I don't know, there's no "single answer" to that problem. But, I do know > that if those of us who have been racing online for a period of time just > "ignore" the issue.....race only in our little "groupie" leagues and don't > contribute our knowledge and experience to the general sim racing > community....the "newbie" will never get the message! And, online "pick

up

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> racing" will continue to be a complete waste of time! That's too bad..... > > I wish that every racing simulation software.....produced.....and sold in > the world ......would have the following message plastered across the face > of the manual, the CD....and the back cover of the "game box"....... > > ****BEFORE you attempt online racing in multiplayer mode......go to > www.XXXnewOnlineRacer.com and read the FAQ list "BEFORE" you attempt > Multiplayer racing. You must not only read it....you must be capable of > doing and performing in a manner consistent with the FAQ

instructions......

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> during a Multiplayer race with other drivers....absolutely everything the > FAQ suggests to you and requires of everyone who races online.**** > > Of course, not only does this URL not exist....as you probably know if you > are a newbie and just clicked it......but that "message" doesn't appear on > one single game box cover or sim racing manual or CD cover in existence > right at the moment! The developers don't consider it to be their > responsibility to "moderate" the quality of Multiplayer play in their > software....and they are right about that (although there a few things

they > could do that would help the situation.....a few have madeattempts....while > Papyrus was one of the worst at doing this at one time....I now think they > are one of the best). It is our responsibility.....as leaders and > "experienced" sim racing drivers to do this. > > So......to follow my own advise....I am going to "promise" to myself and > those members of the sim racing community that regularly visit and "post"on > this newsgroup.......to "bring this issue up".....to educate and > help....every "newbie" I detect....who makes a post on this newsgroup.That

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> should cover the few hundred that don't make posts...but just read the > postings....... too! > > Here's my first contribution: > > *****Regarding the N4 Function Keys access during online racing****** > > Unless you have your keyboard mounted on your race controller...with all > necessary "keys" within a few inches of your fingers ....and you can > activate them "by touch" without looking at your hand, or the > keyboard.....or, they are mapped to your wheel buttons....then you are

going

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> to wreck a lot....and "wreck" the rest of us along with you. Please don't > race online, please! You could get away with "hunt and peck" for the > "display commands"......in N3 (maybe....because the car physics were much > more "foregiving").........but that will never be the case in N4. NEVER! > > *****Did anybody pick up on Darrel Waltrip's "story" during the FOX Sports > broadcast of the Goody Dash yesterday at Daytona? He was kidding about

his > crew chief having to get into the back seat of his race car......run lapsat > Tally at 220 mph...in private testing....no other cars were on the > track.....so his crew chief could record the "readings" on the dash > instruments. Darrel said, "Hell, I can't take my eyes of the road atthose > speeds long enough to look at the tach even.....except maybe to tell you > what general direction its pointing....like "up" or "down".......no way I > can give you the readings of all the dash instruments.....have you triedto > drive this sucker and do it?" Another comment was made about trying tosee

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> how far the rpm's fall off when in the turns at Daytona........nobody says > they can take their eyes off the track....especially when drafting....long > enough to look at the tach! > > ******************So My Fellow Sim Racers********************** > > If the best stock car drivers in the world can't even look at the tach on > their dash...right in front of their faces.......what the heck makes you > think you can search around for your keyboard's F1 key.......and not > crash........taking a few of us with you? > > Make yourself a simply mounting bracket (out of aluminum 1" strap you can > buy at any hardware store in the world) for your keyboard mount.......and > use it when online racing. Or....map the important function keys to your > race controller wheel buttons...if it supports that option, or use > headphones and a voice command program like "Game Commander." And if you > are drafting me at Tally, or Daytona, or Michigan, or Charlotte.....or > racing behind me at Sears Point or Watkins or Martinsville....please don't > ever take your eyes off my car...even for a split second! And, unless > you've been running behind me for 5 to 10 laps....and are totally sure of > exaclty where and when my braking points are located on every > turn.....please maintain a 5 car length distance between us until you are > ready to make a "clean" pass on me! I would appreciate it.....so would > everyone else who happens to be in front of you! > > And, if you think a good way to pass someone is by outbraking them into a > tight turn....or **any turn** for that matter.......then please don't ever > race in the real world....because if you don't get killed on the race

track > first.....you'll be killed by your fellow competitors in the > pits.......eventually! No matter who you are.....this applies to Jeff > Gordon as much as it applies to "Johnny Newbie"......if you wreck someone > attempting an "outbraking" pass.....its your fault...and you will get your > butt kicked by the person you wrecked...and then the other competitorsafter > he is done with you! > > If you are new to online racing......here's a couple of "hints." > > If you follow some of these basic rules of racing....don't wreck peopleand > so forth. You can race with me anytime you want. I don't care how fastyou > are....I care only how "safe" you are driving at any speed! You can also > ask me questions and pick my brain as much as you want.....and I'll do > everything I can to help you be a better, faster online sim driver. If,you > ever encounter me in online racing.....unless I tell you that I am unableto > help you at that moment.....and I refuse to help you or answer your > questions, or at least get my email address to you so I can do it > later.......then please come into this newsgroup and post my name ....LOUD > and CLEARLY.....as to the fact that I would not help you! That's a"ditto"

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> for any other experienced sim racer you run into that refuses to help you. > > Regards, > > Tom Pabst > [email hidden] > Pabst-Racing.com > > >

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:27:32 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote: >If you are new to online racing......here's a couple of "hints." The people you're trying to reach aren't reading this, Tom. They're not saavy enough to access Usenet. Hell, you'd be lucky if they're smart enough to get to the Sierra N4 message board. The sim is new, NASCAR is extremely popular, and everyone within 50 miles of a Best Buy now has a PC and net access. It doesn't take much thought to break this down to the lowest common denominator -yahoo's online for at least the next 3 months. Maybe in 7 or 8 months, the new-ness of N4 will have worn out, and the number of purists will surpass the dopes. If you can't handle the crash and bash that goes along with "instant racing", get a group of guys from here and run only online password protected races. It's not as convenient as just logging on and racing 50 laps, but it seems to have worked for GPL. Tim

As one of the many people who are new to online racing, I understand what you are trying to say. I have raced about 50 laps at Daytona (most with AI traffic). Needless to say, this is not many laps, but I started to feel a bit confidant. I have never raced online before and decided to give it a go. I entered a practise for a Daytona race with a smile of determination. I got out on the track (carefully) and started around the track at speed. It quickly got quite hairy as several cars lined up behind me, drafting. I made a point of quickly hitting the wall several times to let them know that I was a newbie (lol). Then I proceeded to show everyone how to get too low on the turn, hit the apron, and slide coolly across the track! I logged off and went back to practising. I guess my very minor point is: racing sims, unlike most other sims, are VERY unforgiving for a newbie! Any public online race is going to have problems, I think. The only ways to deal with it are to either not take it so seriously, or find a private race with racers of your same calibre. Just a small opinion NB

I still believe the only way to curb this problem is with the software itself. If the software can detect damage, then let it detect maximum damage, thus either shutting down the software for a reasonable amount of time (one hour? one day?) or maybe not allowing the racer to return to the multiplayer site for a pre-determined amount of time. The reason accidents happen so frequently is the absence of fear. So we need simulated fear. If I get involved in a bad accident I may not be able to race in multiplayer for... I don't know, what seems fair? One Week?! Would that put a dent in your driving style? Who knows, maybe not. And yes, sometimes you would get shut off even though it's not your fault. Too bad, sometimes it happens. But would you want to go back to the chat room and explain why your idiot driving is costing me two days off on the service? ahh well, just a thought. Mike

I've been racing online with different sims/arcade racers for four years, and it's not the people who make mistakes (even lots of them) that bother me. It's the a**holes who deliberately try to wreck a race or who simply drive recklessly on purpose. Also, there's the idiots who ruin the chat rooms with their constant flaming. David G Fisher "NightBreed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wz3i6.225470$[email hidden]... > As one of the many people who are new to online racing, I understand what > you are trying to say. I have raced about 50 laps at Daytona (most with AI > traffic). Needless to say, this is not many laps, but I started to feel a > bit confidant. I have never raced online before and decided to give it ago. > I entered a practise for a Daytona race with a smile of determination. Igot > out on the track (carefully) and started around the track at speed. It > quickly got quite hairy as several cars lined up behind me, drafting. Imade > a point of quickly hitting the wall several times to let them know that I > was a newbie (lol). Then I proceeded to show everyone how to get too lowon > the turn, hit the apron, and slide coolly across the track! > I logged off and went back to practising. I guess my very minor point > is: racing sims, unlike most other sims, are VERY unforgiving for anewbie! > Any public online race is going to have problems, I think. The only waysto > deal with it are to either not take it so seriously, or find a privaterace

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> with racers of your same calibre. > Just a small opinion > > NB > > >

I thought of a couple of ways we could have cleaner pickup races. If anyone uses Microsoft's Flight Simulator, they've probably heard of Squawkbox and Pro Controller. These are multiplayer programs that let you fly and be controlled by other people. Before you can use this program online, you have to pass a series of tests to show that you know what you are doing. Maybe something like that is in order for use of certain designated N4 servers. Also, N4 or N5 or N6 could have something like "Beat the Heat" from Nascar Heat where you would have to pass certain tests within the game to be allowed access to the multiplayer portion of the game. Another option I wish would be implemented is that some servers would require proof of age, maybe with a credit card or something. 21 and over!! Just some thoughts Rob "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UGXh6.87024$[email hidden]... > ......from what I can see....these complaints don't have anything to dowith > N4 programming or software issues at all! > > What they are about is the following: > > "Gamers" who think they can install N4, run a few laps atTalledega....then

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> jump into online races and be competitive!" Yikes....its Total > Entertainment Network (TEN), N3 "crash and bash" pick up racing......all > over again! DeJaVu TEN racing at Tally.....oh my God! > > Have we not learned anything in the three or four years this sim racing > community has been racing over the Internet, in online Multiplayer? This > kind of thing virtually ruined pick up racing on TEN (and WON)....and it > will do it with NASCAR Racing 4, too! Why? Because we....as a sim racing > community....***allow it to happen.*** > > Oh sure, all of us "regulars"....the "old-timers" can just go off by > ourselves......race online in our little leagues and tight-nit forum > groups....and "ignore" this issue.....leaving the "mess" to someone else

to > deal with. This is what many of us have been doing for several years now. > Can we stop doing that? > > This is the biggest "dis-service" we can do to online sim racing! And,the > surest way to ruin this activity as a viable "online sport" orhobby......is > if we simply run away from this problem.....as so many of us have been > doing....then it will never go away....or improve. > > How do we "reach" the newbie online racer........and get our messageacross > to them loud and clear? This is particularly difficult to do without > "pre-race chat rooms" which are characteristic of VROC and TEN/WON racing! > In their absence......we have to rely on newsgroups (like this one) andsim > racing websites....with "newbie online racing/mulitplayer" FAQ's and so > forth....to get the message across loud and clear to new online drivers. > But, how does the "newbie" find us.......BEFORE they spend six monthsracing

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> online crashing everybody left and right? > > I don't know, there's no "single answer" to that problem. But, I do know > that if those of us who have been racing online for a period of time just > "ignore" the issue.....race only in our little "groupie" leagues and don't > contribute our knowledge and experience to the general sim racing > community....the "newbie" will never get the message! And, online "pick

up

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> racing" will continue to be a complete waste of time! That's too bad..... > > I wish that every racing simulation software.....produced.....and sold in > the world ......would have the following message plastered across the face > of the manual, the CD....and the back cover of the "game box"....... > > ****BEFORE you attempt online racing in multiplayer mode......go to > www.XXXnewOnlineRacer.com and read the FAQ list "BEFORE" you attempt > Multiplayer racing. You must not only read it....you must be capable of > doing and performing in a manner consistent with the FAQ

instructions......

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> during a Multiplayer race with other drivers....absolutely everything the > FAQ suggests to you and requires of everyone who races online.**** > > Of course, not only does this URL not exist....as you probably know if you > are a newbie and just clicked it......but that "message" doesn't appear on > one single game box cover or sim racing manual or CD cover in existence > right at the moment! The developers don't consider it to be their > responsibility to "moderate" the quality of Multiplayer play in their > software....and they are right about that (although there a few things

they > could do that would help the situation.....a few have madeattempts....while > Papyrus was one of the worst at doing this at one time....I now think they > are one of the best). It is our responsibility.....as leaders and > "experienced" sim racing drivers to do this. > > So......to follow my own advise....I am going to "promise" to myself and > those members of the sim racing community that regularly visit and "post"on > this newsgroup.......to "bring this issue up".....to educate and > help....every "newbie" I detect....who makes a post on this newsgroup.That

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> should cover the few hundred that don't make posts...but just read the > postings....... too! > > Here's my first contribution: > > *****Regarding the N4 Function Keys access during online racing****** > > Unless you have your keyboard mounted on your race controller...with all > necessary "keys" within a few inches of your fingers ....and you can > activate them "by touch" without looking at your hand, or the > keyboard.....or, they are mapped to your wheel buttons....then you are

going

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> to wreck a lot....and "wreck" the rest of us along with you. Please don't > race online, please! You could get away with "hunt and peck" for the > "display commands"......in N3 (maybe....because the car physics were much > more "foregiving").........but that will never be the case in N4. NEVER! > > *****Did anybody pick up on Darrel Waltrip's "story" during the FOX Sports > broadcast of the Goody Dash yesterday at Daytona? He was kidding about

his > crew chief having to get into the back seat of his race car......run lapsat > Tally at 220 mph...in private testing....no other cars were on the > track.....so his crew chief could record the "readings" on the dash > instruments. Darrel said, "Hell, I can't take my eyes of the road atthose > speeds long enough to look at the tach even.....except maybe to tell you > what general direction its pointing....like "up" or "down".......no way I > can give you the readings of all the dash instruments.....have you triedto > drive this sucker and do it?" Another comment was made about trying tosee

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> how far the rpm's fall off when in the turns at Daytona........nobody says > they can take their eyes off the track....especially when drafting....long > enough to look at the tach! > > ******************So My Fellow Sim Racers********************** > > If the best stock car drivers in the world can't even look at the tach on > their dash...right in front of their faces.......what the heck makes you > think you can search around for your keyboard's F1 key.......and not > crash........taking a few of us with you? > > Make yourself a simply mounting bracket (out of aluminum 1" strap you can > buy at any hardware store in the world) for your keyboard mount.......and > use it when online racing. Or....map the important function keys to your > race controller wheel buttons...if it supports that option, or use > headphones and a voice command program like "Game Commander." And if you > are drafting me at Tally, or Daytona, or Michigan, or Charlotte.....or > racing behind me at Sears Point or Watkins or Martinsville....please don't > ever take your eyes off my car...even for a split second! And, unless > you've been running behind me for 5 to 10 laps....and are totally sure of > exaclty where and when my braking points are located on every > turn.....please maintain a 5 car length distance between us until you are > ready to make a "clean" pass on me! I would appreciate it.....so would > everyone else who happens to be in front of you! > > And, if you think a good way to pass someone is by outbraking them into a > tight turn....or **any turn** for that matter.......then please don't ever > race in the real world....because if you don't get killed on the race

track > first.....you'll be killed by your fellow competitors in the > pits.......eventually! No matter who you are.....this applies to Jeff > Gordon as much as it applies to "Johnny Newbie"......if you wreck someone > attempting an "outbraking" pass.....its your fault...and you will get your > butt kicked by the person you wrecked...and then the other competitorsafter > he is done with you! > > If you are new to online racing......here's a couple of "hints." > > If you follow some of these basic rules of racing....don't wreck peopleand > so forth. You can race with me anytime you want. I don't care how fastyou > are....I care only how "safe" you are driving at any speed! You can also > ask me questions and pick my brain as much as you want.....and I'll do > everything I can to help you be a better, faster online sim driver. If,you > ever encounter me in online racing.....unless I tell you that I am unableto > help you at that moment.....and I refuse to help you or answer your > questions, or at least get my email address to you so I can do it > later.......then please come into this newsgroup and post my name ....LOUD > and CLEARLY.....as to the fact that I would not help you! That's a"ditto"

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> for any other experienced sim racer you run into that refuses to help you. > > Regards, > > Tom Pabst > [email hidden] > Pabst-Racing.com > > >

"Alexpez" <[email hidden]> wrote > or different grades of license for online, a rookie zone (scary), a novice > zone where people have run say 20 laps offline in a set time, then > progressively harder tasks for access to races. That could be a good idea but the exec suits at Sierra would cringe at that. Can you see all the spoiled teen and kids going "Waaaaaahhhh mommy my N4 doesn't let me play online" and returning it? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

You say that as though it's a bad thing ! <G> -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aH6i6.11013$[email hidden]... > That could be a good idea but the exec suits at Sierra would cringe at that. > Can you see all the spoiled teen and kids going "Waaaaaahhhh mommy my N4 > doesn't let me play online" and returning it? > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how > hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

LOL!! "gavel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > You are not an " old timer". And beleive me, no one on TEN ever mistookyou > for being a sim driver. > Gavel > > >

>>Tim wroteI don't like that idea at all. I would never buy software that wouldn't allow me to use it if I made a mistake. It would also take about 3 days for it to be hacked, and you'd have twice as many assholes online just to be spiteful.>> You would still be able to use it OFFLINE, just not online. As far as hacking goes, right now, if you try to use a key-coded disc online that is already in use, it won't let you. Your response "You would never buy software that wouldn't allow me to use it because of a mistake." Just proves my point. Just the thought of having your software shut down online makes you cringe so much you wouldn't buy it. But a lot of us would, knowing the consequences of our actions. JMHO Mike

I don't like that idea at all. I would never buy software that wouldn't allow me to use it if I made a mistake. It would also take about 3 days for it to be hacked, and you'd have twice as many assholes online just to be spiteful. Tim On 13 Feb 2001 05:40:39 GMT, [email hidden] (Race1530) wrote:

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>I still believe the only way to curb this problem is with the software itself. >If the software can detect damage, then let it detect maximum damage, thus >either shutting down the software for a reasonable amount of time (one hour? >one day?) or maybe not allowing the racer to return to the multiplayer site for >a pre-determined amount of time. > >The reason accidents happen so frequently is the absence of fear. So we need >simulated fear. If I get involved in a bad accident I may not be able to race >in multiplayer for... I don't know, what seems fair? One Week?! > >Would that put a dent in your driving style? >Who knows, maybe not. > > And yes, sometimes you would get shut off even though it's not your fault. >Too bad, sometimes it happens. But would you want to go back to the chat room >and explain why your idiot driving is costing me two days off on the service? > >ahh well, just a thought. > >Mike

Cant online races be set up to only accomodate certain Skill Levels? I dont own it yet, so i cant say. pez Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UGXh6.87024$[email hidden]... > ......from what I can see....these complaints don't have anything to dowith > N4 programming or software issues at all! > > What they are about is the following: > > "Gamers" who think they can install N4, run a few laps atTalledega....then

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> jump into online races and be competitive!" Yikes....its Total > Entertainment Network (TEN), N3 "crash and bash" pick up racing......all > over again! DeJaVu TEN racing at Tally.....oh my God! > > Have we not learned anything in the three or four years this sim racing > community has been racing over the Internet, in online Multiplayer? This > kind of thing virtually ruined pick up racing on TEN (and WON)....and it > will do it with NASCAR Racing 4, too! Why? Because we....as a sim racing > community....***allow it to happen.*** > > Oh sure, all of us "regulars"....the "old-timers" can just go off by > ourselves......race online in our little leagues and tight-nit forum > groups....and "ignore" this issue.....leaving the "mess" to someone else

to > deal with. This is what many of us have been doing for several years now. > Can we stop doing that? > > This is the biggest "dis-service" we can do to online sim racing! And,the > surest way to ruin this activity as a viable "online sport" orhobby......is > if we simply run away from this problem.....as so many of us have been > doing....then it will never go away....or improve. > > How do we "reach" the newbie online racer........and get our messageacross > to them loud and clear? This is particularly difficult to do without > "pre-race chat rooms" which are characteristic of VROC and TEN/WON racing! > In their absence......we have to rely on newsgroups (like this one) andsim > racing websites....with "newbie online racing/mulitplayer" FAQ's and so > forth....to get the message across loud and clear to new online drivers. > But, how does the "newbie" find us.......BEFORE they spend six monthsracing

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> online crashing everybody left and right? > > I don't know, there's no "single answer" to that problem. But, I do know > that if those of us who have been racing online for a period of time just > "ignore" the issue.....race only in our little "groupie" leagues and don't > contribute our knowledge and experience to the general sim racing > community....the "newbie" will never get the message! And, online "pick

up

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> racing" will continue to be a complete waste of time! That's too bad..... > > I wish that every racing simulation software.....produced.....and sold in > the world ......would have the following message plastered across the face > of the manual, the CD....and the back cover of the "game box"....... > > ****BEFORE you attempt online racing in multiplayer mode......go to > www.XXXnewOnlineRacer.com and read the FAQ list "BEFORE" you attempt > Multiplayer racing. You must not only read it....you must be capable of > doing and performing in a manner consistent with the FAQ

instructions......

Quoted text (9 lines)

> during a Multiplayer race with other drivers....absolutely everything the > FAQ suggests to you and requires of everyone who races online.**** > > Of course, not only does this URL not exist....as you probably know if you > are a newbie and just clicked it......but that "message" doesn't appear on > one single game box cover or sim racing manual or CD cover in existence > right at the moment! The developers don't consider it to be their > responsibility to "moderate" the quality of Multiplayer play in their > software....and they are right about that (although there a few things

they > could do that would help the situation.....a few have madeattempts....while > Papyrus was one of the worst at doing this at one time....I now think they > are one of the best). It is our responsibility.....as leaders and > "experienced" sim racing drivers to do this. > > So......to follow my own advise....I am going to "promise" to myself and > those members of the sim racing community that regularly visit and "post"on > this newsgroup.......to "bring this issue up".....to educate and > help....every "newbie" I detect....who makes a post on this newsgroup.That

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> should cover the few hundred that don't make posts...but just read the > postings....... too! > > Here's my first contribution: > > *****Regarding the N4 Function Keys access during online racing****** > > Unless you have your keyboard mounted on your race controller...with all > necessary "keys" within a few inches of your fingers ....and you can > activate them "by touch" without looking at your hand, or the > keyboard.....or, they are mapped to your wheel buttons....then you are

going

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> to wreck a lot....and "wreck" the rest of us along with you. Please don't > race online, please! You could get away with "hunt and peck" for the > "display commands"......in N3 (maybe....because the car physics were much > more "foregiving").........but that will never be the case in N4. NEVER! > > *****Did anybody pick up on Darrel Waltrip's "story" during the FOX Sports > broadcast of the Goody Dash yesterday at Daytona? He was kidding about

his > crew chief having to get into the back seat of his race car......run lapsat > Tally at 220 mph...in private testing....no other cars were on the > track.....so his crew chief could record the "readings" on the dash > instruments. Darrel said, "Hell, I can't take my eyes of the road atthose > speeds long enough to look at the tach even.....except maybe to tell you > what general direction its pointing....like "up" or "down".......no way I > can give you the readings of all the dash instruments.....have you triedto > drive this sucker and do it?" Another comment was made about trying tosee

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> how far the rpm's fall off when in the turns at Daytona........nobody says > they can take their eyes off the track....especially when drafting....long > enough to look at the tach! > > ******************So My Fellow Sim Racers********************** > > If the best stock car drivers in the world can't even look at the tach on > their dash...right in front of their faces.......what the heck makes you > think you can search around for your keyboard's F1 key.......and not > crash........taking a few of us with you? > > Make yourself a simply mounting bracket (out of aluminum 1" strap you can > buy at any hardware store in the world) for your keyboard mount.......and > use it when online racing. Or....map the important function keys to your > race controller wheel buttons...if it supports that option, or use > headphones and a voice command program like "Game Commander." And if you > are drafting me at Tally, or Daytona, or Michigan, or Charlotte.....or > racing behind me at Sears Point or Watkins or Martinsville....please don't > ever take your eyes off my car...even for a split second! And, unless > you've been running behind me for 5 to 10 laps....and are totally sure of > exaclty where and when my braking points are located on every > turn.....please maintain a 5 car length distance between us until you are > ready to make a "clean" pass on me! I would appreciate it.....so would > everyone else who happens to be in front of you! > > And, if you think a good way to pass someone is by outbraking them into a > tight turn....or **any turn** for that matter.......then please don't ever > race in the real world....because if you don't get killed on the race

track > first.....you'll be killed by your fellow competitors in the > pits.......eventually! No matter who you are.....this applies to Jeff > Gordon as much as it applies to "Johnny Newbie"......if you wreck someone > attempting an "outbraking" pass.....its your fault...and you will get your > butt kicked by the person you wrecked...and then the other competitorsafter > he is done with you! > > If you are new to online racing......here's a couple of "hints." > > If you follow some of these basic rules of racing....don't wreck peopleand > so forth. You can race with me anytime you want. I don't care how fastyou > are....I care only how "safe" you are driving at any speed! You can also > ask me questions and pick my brain as much as you want.....and I'll do > everything I can to help you be a better, faster online sim driver. If,you > ever encounter me in online racing.....unless I tell you that I am unableto > help you at that moment.....and I refuse to help you or answer your > questions, or at least get my email address to you so I can do it > later.......then please come into this newsgroup and post my name ....LOUD > and CLEARLY.....as to the fact that I would not help you! That's a"ditto"

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> for any other experienced sim racer you run into that refuses to help you. > > Regards, > > Tom Pabst > [email hidden] > Pabst-Racing.com > > >

I have a couple of thoughts about the problems inherent in online racing, and propose a couple of fixes. First the nature of the online community as it is now, encourages people to drive like idiots. the reason is that most races are sprints. One spin effectivly eliminates you from any possibility of winning. So banzai starts are almost a necessity. Second, is that most races are run without dammage which means that the risk of a tricky takeover manuver has less of a detering factor. Another thing is a drivers refusal to recognize the proper passing zones at each particular track. Best example;MONZA-ASCARI- why would anyone in their right mind (or left mind) think that this is a good place to fight for a spot. you have a super long and wide straight seconds away and much safer for passing, but no, people feel the urge to dice it out at Ascari and one or both are out of contention after the incident. I firmly believe that longer race distances and damage enabled would help to alleviate most of the unecessary aggression. My last point is much more controversial, but i think it holds truth. If game makers didnt release multiplayer at the same time as the game it would force people to race offline for a couple of months and they could use this time to hone their skills for when multiplayer is released. A 2-4 month delay from game release would be pretty good. Multiplayer is not a right - It is a privilege! Each racing game is different and to help newbies, it would be great if the regulars could offer to run behind the newbie in practice and wait for him if he spins just to give experienced observations to the new driver. If people would do this alone, it would be a great benefit to the newbie. We must realize that most newbies will never wait till their laptimes are fast enough to compete online, so helping them is a step in the right direction, not flaming them for being stupid.Pickup racing is necessary for people who cant join a league or race only passworded races and a lot of the league people like to do the occasional pick up race so coexisting peacefully is going to help all involved enjoy online racing a little more. And finally we should'nt waste our time with people who want to ruin races. These drivers are anti-social misfits and will always be around to irritate us. Its the drivers that cause accidents by mistake and are genuinely sorry that our efforts need to be aimed at. Just my $7 .83 worth lancemanyun thanks for reading! Please reply with your thoughts. Rob wrote:

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> I thought of a couple of ways we could have cleaner pickup races. If anyone > uses Microsoft's Flight Simulator, they've probably heard of Squawkbox and > Pro Controller. These are multiplayer programs that let you fly and be > controlled by other people. Before you can use this program online, you > have to pass a series of tests to show that you know what you are doing. > Maybe something like that is in order for use of certain designated N4 > servers. Also, N4 or N5 or N6 could have something like "Beat the Heat" > from Nascar Heat where you would have to pass certain tests within the game > to be allowed access to the multiplayer portion of the game. Another option > I wish would be implemented is that some servers would require proof of age, > maybe with a credit card or something. 21 and over!! > > Just some thoughts > > Rob > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:UGXh6.87024$[email hidden]... > > ......from what I can see....these complaints don't have anything to do > with > > N4 programming or software issues at all! > > > > What they are about is the following: > > > > "Gamers" who think they can install N4, run a few laps at > Talledega....then > > jump into online races and be competitive!" Yikes....its Total > > Entertainment Network (TEN), N3 "crash and bash" pick up racing......all > > over again! DeJaVu TEN racing at Tally.....oh my God! > > > > Have we not learned anything in the three or four years this sim racing > > community has been racing over the Internet, in online Multiplayer? This > > kind of thing virtually ruined pick up racing on TEN (and WON)....and it > > will do it with NASCAR Racing 4, too! Why? Because we....as a sim racing > > community....***allow it to happen.*** > > > > Oh sure, all of us "regulars"....the "old-timers" can just go off by > > ourselves......race online in our little leagues and tight-nit forum > > groups....and "ignore" this issue.....leaving the "mess" to someone else > to > > deal with. This is what many of us have been doing for several years now. > > > Can we stop doing that? > > > > This is the biggest "dis-service" we can do to online sim racing! And, > the > > surest way to ruin this activity as a viable "online sport" or > hobby......is > > if we simply run away from this problem.....as so many of us have been > > doing....then it will never go away....or improve. > > > > How do we "reach" the newbie online racer........and get our message > across > > to them loud and clear? This is particularly difficult to do without > > "pre-race chat rooms" which are characteristic of VROC and TEN/WON racing! > > In their absence......we have to rely on newsgroups (like this one) and > sim > > racing websites....with "newbie online racing/mulitplayer" FAQ's and so > > forth....to get the message across loud and clear to new online drivers. > > But, how does the "newbie" find us.......BEFORE they spend six months > racing > > online crashing everybody left and right? > > > > I don't know, there's no "single answer" to that problem. But, I do know > > that if those of us who have been racing online for a period of time just > > "ignore" the issue.....race only in our little "groupie" leagues and don't > > contribute our knowledge and experience to the general sim racing > > community....the "newbie" will never get the message! And, online "pick > up > > racing" will continue to be a complete waste of time! That's too bad..... > > > > I wish that every racing simulation software.....produced.....and sold in > > the world ......would have the following message plastered across the face > > of the manual, the CD....and the back cover of the "game box"....... > > > > ****BEFORE you attempt online racing in multiplayer mode......go to > > www.XXXnewOnlineRacer.com and read the FAQ list "BEFORE" you attempt > > Multiplayer racing. You must not only read it....you must be capable of > > doing and performing in a manner consistent with the FAQ > instructions...... > > during a Multiplayer race with other drivers....absolutely everything the > > FAQ suggests to you and requires of everyone who races online.**** > > > > Of course, not only does this URL not exist....as you probably know if you > > are a newbie and just clicked it......but that "message" doesn't appear on > > one single game box cover or sim racing manual or CD cover in existence > > right at the moment! The developers don't consider it to be their > > responsibility to "moderate" the quality of Multiplayer play in their > > software....and they are right about that (although there a few things > they > > could do that would help the situation.....a few have made > attempts....while > > Papyrus was one of the worst at doing this at one time....I now think they > > are one of the best). It is our responsibility.....as leaders and > > "experienced" sim racing drivers to do this. > > > > So......to follow my own advise....I am going to "promise" to myself and > > those members of the sim racing community that regularly visit and "post" > on > > this newsgroup.......to "bring this issue up".....to educate and > > help....every "newbie" I detect....who makes a post on this newsgroup. > That > > should cover the few hundred that don't make posts...but just read the > > postings....... too! > > > > Here's my first contribution: > > > > *****Regarding the N4 Function Keys access during online racing****** > > > > Unless you have your keyboard mounted on your race controller...with all > > necessary "keys" within a few inches of your fingers ....and you can > > activate them "by touch" without looking at your hand, or the > > keyboard.....or, they are mapped to your wheel buttons....then you are > going > > to wreck a lot....and "wreck" the rest of us along with you. Please don't > > race online, please! You could get away with "hunt and peck" for the > > "display commands"......in N3 (maybe....because the car physics were much > > more "foregiving").........but that will never be the case in N4. NEVER! > > > > *****Did anybody pick up on Darrel Waltrip's "story" during the FOX Sports > > broadcast of the Goody Dash yesterday at Daytona? He was kidding about > his > > crew chief having to get into the back seat of his race car......run laps > at > > Tally at 220 mph...in private testing....no other cars were on the > > track.....so his crew chief could record the "readings" on the dash > > instruments. Darrel said, "Hell, I can't take my eyes of the road at > those > > speeds long enough to look at the tach even.....except maybe to tell you > > what general direction its pointing....like "up" or "down".......no way I > > can give you the readings of all the dash instruments.....have you tried > to > > drive this sucker and do it?" Another comment was made about trying to > see > > how far the rpm's fall off when in the turns at Daytona........nobody says > > they can take their eyes off the track....especially when drafting....long > > enough to look at the tach! > > > > ******************So My Fellow Sim Racers********************** > > > > If the best stock car drivers in the world can't even look at the tach on > > their dash...right in front of their faces.......what the heck makes you > > think you can search around for your keyboard's F1 key.......and not > > crash........taking a few of us with you? > > > > Make yourself a simply mounting bracket (out of aluminum 1" strap you can > > buy at any hardware store in the world) for your keyboard mount.......and > > use it when online racing. Or....map the important function keys to your > > race controller wheel buttons...if it supports that option, or use > > headphones and a voice command program like "Game Commander." And if you > > are drafting me at Tally, or Daytona, or Michigan, or Charlotte.....or > > racing behind me at Sears Point or Watkins or Martinsville....please don't > > ever take your eyes off my car...even for a split second! And, unless > > you've been running behind me for 5 to 10 laps....and are totally sure of > > exaclty where and when my braking points are located on every > > turn.....please maintain a 5 car length distance between us until you are > > ready to make a "clean" pass on me! I would appreciate it.....so would > > everyone else who happens to be in front of you! > > > > And, if you think a good way to pass someone is by outbraking them into a > > tight turn....or **any turn** for that matter.......then please don't ever > > race in the real world....because if you don't get killed on the race > track > > first.....you'll be killed by your fellow competitors in the > > pits.......eventually! No matter who you are.....this applies to Jeff > > Gordon as much as it applies to "Johnny Newbie"......if you wreck someone > > attempting an "outbraking" pass.....its your fault...and you will get your > > butt kicked by the person you wrecked...and then the other competitors > after > > he is done with you! > > > > If you are new to online racing......here's a couple of "hints." > > > > If you follow some of these basic rules of racing....don't wreck people > and > > so forth. You can race with me anytime you want. I don't care how fast > you > > are....I care only how "safe" you are driving at any speed! You can also > > ask me questions and pick my brain as much as you want.....and I'll do > > everything I can to help you be a better, faster online sim driver. If, > you > > ever encounter me in online racing.....unless I tell you that I am unable > to > > help you at that moment.....and I refuse to help you or answer your > > questions, or at least get my email address to you so I can do it > > later.......then please come into this newsgroup and post my name ....LOUD > > and CLEARLY.....as to the fact that I would not help you! That's a > "ditto" > > for any other experienced sim racer you run into that refuses to help you. > > > > Regards, > > > > Tom Pabst > > [email hidden] > > Pabst-Racing.com > > > > > >

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** The host _can_ punt anyone he wishes, if he configures the password box right. You can do this and still have an open race. The host uses the !Eject command. Bye Bye Rail-Runner (the lowest of all scum). -Larry "Tim O" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On 13 Feb 2001 15:19:58 GMT, [email hidden] (Race1530) wrote: > > >Your response "You would never buy software that wouldn't allow me touse it > >because of a mistake." Just proves my point. Just the thought of havingyour > >software shut down online makes you cringe so much you wouldn't buy it.But a

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> >lot of us would, knowing the consequences of our actions. > > I'm a courteous and clean online racer. If I spin coming out of turn > two, and hit someone I don't want to be locked out of the game for the > next race. Hell, if I do a total brain fart after spinning and start > off going the wrong way I don't want to be banned. Losing orientation > isn't likely on an oval, but I'd say it's pretty possible on a road > course. > > Please remember Papyrus is in business to sell software. If even 1 in > 10 feel the way I do about having the program shut down online play, > the lost sales would be significant enough to make them worry. > > The best way to handle it is to either have the host able to punt the > jerks at any time (Quake console style), or do it the old fashion way > and be selective about who you race with. > > Tim >

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On 13 Feb 2001 15:19:58 GMT, [email hidden] (Race1530) wrote: >Your response "You would never buy software that wouldn't allow me to use it >because of a mistake." Just proves my point. Just the thought of having your >software shut down online makes you cringe so much you wouldn't buy it. But a >lot of us would, knowing the consequences of our actions. I'm a courteous and clean online racer. If I spin coming out of turn two, and hit someone I don't want to be locked out of the game for the next race. Hell, if I do a total brain fart after spinning and start off going the wrong way I don't want to be banned. Losing orientation isn't likely on an oval, but I'd say it's pretty possible on a road course. Please remember Papyrus is in business to sell software. If even 1 in 10 feel the way I do about having the program shut down online play, the lost sales would be significant enough to make them worry. The best way to handle it is to either have the host able to punt the jerks at any time (Quake console style), or do it the old fashion way and be selective about who you race with. Tim

In article <aH6i6.11013$[email hidden]>, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> writes: >That could be a good idea but the exec suits at Sierra would cringe at that. >Can you see all the spoiled teen and kids going "Waaaaaahhhh mommy my N4 >doesn't let me play online" and returning it? > *I* could live with that... :) Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <3a899fe1$[email hidden]>, "Dog-Leg" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>The host _can_ punt anyone he wishes, if he configures the password box >right. You can do this and still have an open race. > >The host uses the !Eject command. Bye Bye Rail-Runner (the lowest of all >scum). > >-Larry

Does N4 allow dedicated servers? If so, then there's usually no 'host', so to speak. If I'm not racing on my own GPL server, no one can eject the people... :( Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:27:32 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote: I tried to be objective when reading this and I thought I was going to resist making a post, but the sheer arrogance of it finally got to me and I have to at least make a point or two. First of all, we bought the game with our hard earned money, we will play where we damn well please. I have owned every version of Nascar as well as Heat and a few others. I'm not that good, but I like to have fun. No, I never wreck people on purpose, but sometimes things happen and people get wrecked...deal with it. You're talking like it's a real car that you have thousands of dollars invested in, instead of the pixels that it really is. If it gets messed up, you always get another one. There are no other games that I own where someone comes on and preaches to me that I shouldn't play online until I have become good at it. Hell, some people don't even play single player games anymore. They buy a new game and immediately go online looking for Tom Pabst. They have that right and it's your right to find a way to avoid them. Maybe you meant well, but your post really took me the wrong way. I'm 41 years old, mature, and enjoy playing my games as much as anyone. I might wreck someone and I might not, but when I get ready to play, I'm gonna play. If I find something that puzzles me, then I'll read Keith

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>......from what I can see....these complaints don't have anything to do with >N4 programming or software issues at all! > >What they are about is the following: > >"Gamers" who think they can install N4, run a few laps at Talledega....then >jump into online races and be competitive!" Yikes....its Total >Entertainment Network (TEN), N3 "crash and bash" pick up racing......all >over again! DeJaVu TEN racing at Tally.....oh my God! > >Have we not learned anything in the three or four years this sim racing >community has been racing over the Internet, in online Multiplayer? This >kind of thing virtually ruined pick up racing on TEN (and WON)....and it >will do it with NASCAR Racing 4, too! Why? Because we....as a sim racing >community....***allow it to happen.*** > >Oh sure, all of us "regulars"....the "old-timers" can just go off by >ourselves......race online in our little leagues and tight-nit forum >groups....and "ignore" this issue.....leaving the "mess" to someone else to >deal with. This is what many of us have been doing for several years now. >Can we stop doing that? > >This is the biggest "dis-service" we can do to online sim racing! And, the >surest way to ruin this activity as a viable "online sport" or hobby......is >if we simply run away from this problem.....as so many of us have been >doing....then it will never go away....or improve. > >How do we "reach" the newbie online racer........and get our message across >to them loud and clear? This is particularly difficult to do without >"pre-race chat rooms" which are characteristic of VROC and TEN/WON racing! >In their absence......we have to rely on newsgroups (like this one) and sim >racing websites....with "newbie online racing/mulitplayer" FAQ's and so >forth....to get the message across loud and clear to new online drivers. >But, how does the "newbie" find us.......BEFORE they spend six months racing >online crashing everybody left and right? > >I don't know, there's no "single answer" to that problem. But, I do know >that if those of us who have been racing online for a period of time just >"ignore" the issue.....race only in our little "groupie" leagues and don't >contribute our knowledge and experience to the general sim racing >community....the "newbie" will never get the message! And, online "pick up >racing" will continue to be a complete waste of time! That's too bad..... > >I wish that every racing simulation software.....produced.....and sold in >the world ......would have the following message plastered across the face >of the manual, the CD....and the back cover of the "game box"....... > >****BEFORE you attempt online racing in multiplayer mode......go to >www.XXXnewOnlineRacer.com and read the FAQ list "BEFORE" you attempt >Multiplayer racing. You must not only read it....you must be capable of >doing and performing in a manner consistent with the FAQ instructions...... >during a Multiplayer race with other drivers....absolutely everything the >FAQ suggests to you and requires of everyone who races online.**** > >Of course, not only does this URL not exist....as you probably know if you >are a newbie and just clicked it......but that "message" doesn't appear on >one single game box cover or sim racing manual or CD cover in existence >right at the moment! The developers don't consider it to be their >responsibility to "moderate" the quality of Multiplayer play in their >software....and they are right about that (although there a few things they >could do that would help the situation.....a few have made attempts....while >Papyrus was one of the worst at doing this at one time....I now think they >are one of the best). It is our responsibility.....as leaders and >"experienced" sim racing drivers to do this. > >So......to follow my own advise....I am going to "promise" to myself and >those members of the sim racing community that regularly visit and "post" on >this newsgroup.......to "bring this issue up".....to educate and >help....every "newbie" I detect....who makes a post on this newsgroup. That >should cover the few hundred that don't make posts...but just read the >postings....... too! > >Here's my first contribution: > >*****Regarding the N4 Function Keys access during online racing****** > >Unless you have your keyboard mounted on your race controller...with all >necessary "keys" within a few inches of your fingers ....and you can >activate them "by touch" without looking at your hand, or the >keyboard.....or, they are mapped to your wheel buttons....then you are going >to wreck a lot....and "wreck" the rest of us along with you. Please don't >race online, please! You could get away with "hunt and peck" for the >"display commands"......in N3 (maybe....because the car physics were much >more "foregiving").........but that will never be the case in N4. NEVER! > >*****Did anybody pick up on Darrel Waltrip's "story" during the FOX Sports >broadcast of the Goody Dash yesterday at Daytona? He was kidding about his >crew chief having to get into the back seat of his race car......run laps at >Tally at 220 mph...in private testing....no other cars were on the >track.....so his crew chief could record the "readings" on the dash >instruments. Darrel said, "Hell, I can't take my eyes of the road at those >speeds long enough to look at the tach even.....except maybe to tell you >what general direction its pointing....like "up" or "down".......no way I >can give you the readings of all the dash instruments.....have you tried to >drive this sucker and do it?" Another comment was made about trying to see >how far the rpm's fall off when in the turns at Daytona........nobody says >they can take their eyes off the track....especially when drafting....long >enough to look at the tach! > >******************So My Fellow Sim Racers********************** > >If the best stock car drivers in the world can't even look at the tach on >their dash...right in front of their faces.......what the heck makes you >think you can search around for your keyboard's F1 key.......and not >crash........taking a few of us with you? > >Make yourself a simply mounting bracket (out of aluminum 1" strap you can >buy at any hardware store in the world) for your keyboard mount.......and >use it when online racing. Or....map the important function keys to your >race controller wheel buttons...if it supports that option, or use >headphones and a voice command program like "Game Commander." And if you >are drafting me at Tally, or Daytona, or Michigan, or Charlotte.....or >racing behind me at Sears Point or Watkins or Martinsville....please don't >ever take your eyes off my car...even for a split second! And, unless >you've been running behind me for 5 to 10 laps....and are totally sure of >exaclty where and when my braking points are located on every >turn.....please maintain a 5 car length distance between us until you are >ready to make a "clean" pass on me! I would appreciate it.....so would >everyone else who happens to be in front of you! > >And, if you think a good way to pass someone is by outbraking them into a >tight turn....or **any turn** for that matter.......then please don't ever >race in the real world....because if you don't get killed on the race track >first.....you'll be killed by your fellow competitors in the >pits.......eventually! No matter who you are.....this applies to Jeff >Gordon as much as it applies to "Johnny Newbie"......if you wreck someone >attempting an "outbraking" pass.....its your fault...and you will get your >butt kicked by the person you wrecked...and then the other competitors after >he is done with you! > >If you are new to online racing......here's a couple of "hints." > >If you follow some of these basic rules of racing....don't wreck people and >so forth. You can race with me anytime you want. I don't care how fast you >are....I care only how "safe" you are driving at any speed! You can also >ask me questions and pick my brain as much as you want.....and I'll do >everything I can to help you be a better, faster online sim driver. If, you >ever encounter me in online racing.....unless I tell you that I am unable to >help you at that moment.....and I refuse to help you or answer your >questions, or at least get my email address to you so I can do it >later.......then please come into this newsgroup and post my name ....LOUD >and CLEARLY.....as to the fact that I would not help you! That's a "ditto" >for any other experienced sim racer you run into that refuses to help you. > >Regards, > >Tom Pabst >[email hidden] >Pabst-Racing.com > > >

> First of all, we bought the game with our hard earned money, we will > play where we damn well please.-----snip----- > They buy a new game and immediately go online looking for Tom Pabst. > They have that right and it's your right to find a way to avoid them. Is it a man's right to go in and shoot a half a dozen people because he was stealing and his boss caught him? Was it those people's right (or responsibility) to find a way to avoid that? Sure the stakes of this analogy are much higher but the ethic is the same. Let's try this analogy: Let's say I go out and buy a brand new Yamaha dirt bike. Does that afford me the right to immediately drag it to an arenacross event and wreck the day for all these people who do this week in and week out, putting a hell of a lot of effort into it? No it most certainly does not. Should I buy a ball and bat and immediately jump in there with a really good local farm team? Hell no. I crawl before I walk. THAT'S what Tom's trying address. I don't even do pickup races anymore and haven't for a long time because it's a waste of my time... and it's a shame because I lose the opportunity to meet new people who may take this as seriously as I do. All because I got sick of dealing with twerp, know-it-all 9 year olds with an Athlon and a bad attitude. Mark McCuen www.hooters-racing.com

In article <[email hidden]>, Joey Miller <[email hidden]> writes:

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> I have a couple of thoughts about the problems inherent in online >racing, >and > >propose a couple of fixes. First the nature of the online community as it is >now, > >encourages people to drive like idiots. the reason is that most races are >sprints. One > >spin effectivly eliminates you from any possibility of winning. So banzai >starts >are > >almost a necessity. Second, is that most races are run without dammage which > >means that the risk of a tricky takeover manuver has less of a detering >factor. >Another > >thing is a drivers refusal to recognize the proper passing zones at each >particular track. > >Best example;MONZA-ASCARI- why would anyone in their right mind (or left >mind) > >think that this is a good place to fight for a spot. you have a super long >and >wide straight > >seconds away and much safer for passing, but no, people feel the urge to dice >it >out at > >Ascari and one or both are out of contention after the incident. I firmly >believe that longer > >race distances and damage enabled would help to alleviate most of the >unecessary > >aggression. My last point is much more controversial, but i think it holds >truth. If game

[snip] Although I somewhat agree with you, I see the other side. As a 'serverdude', I've noticed that the longer, damage-enabled races go idle 90% of the time. Why have a high-speed connection running if no one even USES it? Want to make sure your server gets used? Run a novice race at Monza. It's not the races that are served that are causing the problem. It's the MTV attention span of the racers IN them... :( Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** There is a way for people with the right password to eject racers if they know the supervisory password for the server... -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <3a899fe1$[email hidden]>, "Dog-Leg" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >The host _can_ punt anyone he wishes, if he configures the password box > >right. You can do this and still have an open race. > > > >The host uses the !Eject command. Bye Bye Rail-Runner (the lowest of all > >scum). > > > >-Larry > > Does N4 allow dedicated servers? If so, then there's usually no 'host',

so to > speak. If I'm not racing on my own GPL server, no one can eject thepeople...

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> :( > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Tom, Your points are well taken. I want to share my experiences with N4 with you (don't worry - I'll keep it short!). Got the game on Feb 9, got my new wheel, started driving. I started with a couple of tracks, taking the well-worn advice to master one or two at a time, rather than fumble my way around all of them at once. I then took to running single races at Daytona, Dover and Dega (the three I started with), and even learned to pass, draft (well, sorta - the replays still make for a pretty funny "spot the loony" game), and eventually started placing well and won a race. Last weekend, curiosity got the best of me, and I began wondering how I compared to other non-AI drivers, and I spent a good part of last weekend trying multiplayer. Performance-wise, I was impressed. I'm stuck with a 56k modem, yet was able to race in crowded fields with good performance (well, relative to what one might expect from the internet). The drivers were another story, and I came away from my experience having lumped other drivers into 3 general categories. First, there were serious racers, who had put in some practice, and it showed. I'm certainly on <insert favorite driver here>, but I can get around the track. I saw several others who seemed to be in my boat - they weren't bad, they were clearly working on their skills, and they were trying to measure themselves and watch and observe and compete. Nice to see. Second, there were the all-too-typical jerks who seem to have mistaken the exercise for a demolition derby. I probably don't need to elaborate. Third, and probably most frustrating, were the "I'm special" racers. These might have wall-hugged their way around the qualifying lap, and they might be pretty talented. But this race is clearly just a stage for them to be cocky and try to impress (see wall-hugging). If they spin out or wreck, they disconnect, leaving behind a stream of obscenities directed toward whoever they decide is at fault for their crash (it's never them, of course). I wish the folks who aren't serious about it could run somwehere else, but don't know how to make it so. Turning on damage and cautions might help - dragging yourself around Daytona for several caution laps tries the patience of even the serious driver! I was equally annoyed by those who quit once they were out of contention. One of the races I won Friday night began with a field of 14, and ended with 4 cars on the track! Okay, that's my $.02. In short, I'm really happy with the game, and am really working on improving, and want to eventually get into a league or a group of more serious drivers. I'm glad that there are ways for a "newbie" like myself -- who's taking this seriously -- to break into this community. But even at my novice level, I'm feeling and sharing Tom's (and others') frustrations. So, when you see Routerhead tooling about in his half-ass-paintjob 98 Dodge, give me a wide berth, but know I'm trying! Eric Carr

In article <[email hidden]>, "Dog-Leg" <[email hidden]> writes: >There is a way for people with the right password to eject racers if they >know the supervisory password for the server... > That's what I mean - since I never know who will be racing on my servers, I couldn't give the password. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.