Nascar4 User Interface - This annoying on purpose?

The problem with Papyrus is it looks like they keep designing their user interfaces after the games are written. Their linear "race weekend" paradigm in Nascar 4 is one of the most intrusive barriers to enjoyment I've ever seen in a simulation. Not only can you not save mid-race, an unforgivable omission in my opinion, you cannot even restart the current session without exiting the track and reloading it right back to where you were before you had to exit. This seven- or eight-click and 20- to 30- second evolution has become very tiresome to me. A lot of times I'll just exit the whole damn game rather than sit through Yet Another Track Reload, just so I can start the race from scratch AGAIN, just so the idiot AI car behind me can ram me into the wall on the second turn AGAIN, just so I can exit and wait while the track reloads just to do the whole thing over, AGAIN. Since one track load can be used for the whole race weekend evolution (assuming the player doesn't want to redo anything as there is no redo, only exit, reload, and start over), the engine is obviously flexible enough to reinitialize a session without having to exit and reload the track. The capability is there, why didn't they give us a button pointing to it for no other reason than to save us from the redundant and time-consuming track reload? There's currently a "next session" button, why isn't there a "restart current" or even "previous session" button when all the data reinitialization capabilities are there as they obviously already are. If I restart a race 30 times, that's 15 minutes I spend looking at the stupid "loading" screen for no reason whatsoever other than someone at Papyrus seems to think that maintaining the integrity of the "race weekend" paradigm is more important than alleviating the frustration one experiences when limited by such a linear gameplay design. Beyond saves and restarts, I don't even understand why you have to qualify in the first place. There ought to be a screen where you drag names from the 2001 roster on the left to what grid position you want that driver to be in on the right. A "randomize" button (the same function programmatically that currently resolves qual times) could fill in the rest of the field with the remaining unselected drivers. You could define whether this was a starting grid or a mid-race restart under yellow including the number of laps elapsed and number of laps since the lead cars last pitted. This is the kind of stuff that simulators do best and the means by which we can extract the most enjoyment from them, yet N4 is completely devoid of any such functionality. It's unfathomable that the game designer has decided that the only way I ought to get good track position in this GAME is by actually going through the motions of qualifying. Those who enjoy qualifying, as I *sometimes* do, ought to be able to do so to their heart's content. But it shouldn't be the ONLY avenue available to get to some quick dirty racing, and the bottom line is those who don't enjoy qualifying, who bought or might buy N4 just to experience SOME of the thrill of NASCAR racing and not necessarily every last painful detail of it, are going to quit playing the game long before they're going to change their minds and decide that qualifying and all the other minutia is fun, and that's a deathknell for anyone who wants to see Nascar 4 prosper. Nor can you practice critical skills like in-race pitstops or last lap sprints. How are you ever supposed to get good at the physical and strategic elements of pit-stopping if the only time you get to do it is while running a real race? Pit-stopping during a practice session doesn't have anything to do with what it's like to pit under real race conditions and the decisions that must be made accordingly. No "what if I'd only taken two tires that last stop?", "what if I'd splashed off instead of taking a whole can of fuel -- would I have made it?", or even the simple, "gosh, those last 20 laps were so fun I'd just like to play them over and over and over again -- not the whole race, just those last 20 laps"? How are we supposed to get that kind of experience for real race conditions when there's no way to go out and repetitively practice those evolutions under real race conditions? Except for those who have the time and inclination to make excelling at Nascar 4 a primary objective of their life, the only thing the rest of us casual gamers can get really good at is race starts, because that's the only thing we get to do over and over and over again, whether or not we want to. It seems the only part of racing that Papyrus wants us to experience to is how utterly frustrating it can be. Um, thanks, but that's really not why I buy ENTERTAINMENT software in the first place. Despite its phenomenal new physics engine, gorgeous graphics, and the "you-are-there" feeling it invokes like no predecessor before it, I'm finding N4 to be an exceedingly frustrating experience, all because of some mind-bogglingly restrictive and short-sighted decisions regarding its user interface. - Rick

Stop wrecking. -- Kevin Anderson [email hidden] "Rick E." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6qfo6.1076$[email hidden]... > The problem with Papyrus is it looks like they keep designing their user > interfaces after the games are written. Their linear "race weekend" > paradigm in Nascar 4 is one of the most intrusive barriers to enjoyment > I've ever seen in a simulation. Not only can you not save mid-race, an > unforgivable omission in my opinion, you cannot even restart the current > session without exiting the track and reloading it right back to where you > were before you had to exit. This seven- or eight-click and 20- to 30- > second evolution has become very tiresome to me. A lot of times I'll just > exit the whole damn game rather than sit through Yet Another Track Reload, > just so I can start the race from scratch AGAIN, just so the idiot AI car > behind me can ram me into the wall on the second turn AGAIN, just so I can > exit and wait while the track reloads just to do the whole thing over, > AGAIN. > > Since one track load can be used for the whole race weekend evolution > (assuming the player doesn't want to redo anything as there is no redo, > only exit, reload, and start over), the engine is obviously flexible enough > to reinitialize a session without having to exit and reload the track. The > capability is there, why didn't they give us a button pointing to it for no > other reason than to save us from the redundant and time-consuming track > reload? There's currently a "next session" button, why isn't there a > "restart current" or even "previous session" button when all the data > reinitialization capabilities are there as they obviously already are. If > I restart a race 30 times, that's 15 minutes I spend looking at the stupid > "loading" screen for no reason whatsoever other than someone at Papyrus > seems to think that maintaining the integrity of the "race weekend" > paradigm is more important than alleviating the frustration one experiences > when limited by such a linear gameplay design. > > Beyond saves and restarts, I don't even understand why you have to qualify > in the first place. There ought to be a screen where you drag names from > the 2001 roster on the left to what grid position you want that driver to > be in on the right. A "randomize" button (the same function > programmatically that currently resolves qual times) could fill in the rest > of the field with the remaining unselected drivers. You could define > whether this was a starting grid or a mid-race restart under yellow > including the number of laps elapsed and number of laps since the lead cars > last pitted. This is the kind of stuff that simulators do best and the > means by which we can extract the most enjoyment from them, yet N4 is > completely devoid of any such functionality. It's unfathomable that the > game designer has decided that the only way I ought to get good track > position in this GAME is by actually going through the motions of > qualifying. Those who enjoy qualifying, as I *sometimes* do, ought to be > able to do so to their heart's content. But it shouldn't be the ONLY > avenue available to get to some quick dirty racing, and the bottom line is > those who don't enjoy qualifying, who bought or might buy N4 just to > experience SOME of the thrill of NASCAR racing and not necessarily every > last painful detail of it, are going to quit playing the game long before > they're going to change their minds and decide that qualifying and all > the other minutia is fun, and that's a deathknell for anyone who wants to > see Nascar 4 prosper. > > Nor can you practice critical skills like in-race pitstops or last lap > sprints. How are you ever supposed to get good at the physical and > strategic elements of pit-stopping if the only time you get to do it is > while running a real race? Pit-stopping during a practice session doesn't > have anything to do with what it's like to pit under real race conditions > and the decisions that must be made accordingly. No "what if I'd only > taken two tires that last stop?", "what if I'd splashed off instead of > taking a whole can of fuel -- would I have made it?", or even the simple, > "gosh, those last 20 laps were so fun I'd just like to play them over and > over and over again -- not the whole race, just those last 20 laps"? How > are we supposed to get that kind of experience for real race conditions > when there's no way to go out and repetitively practice those evolutions > under real race conditions? Except for those who have the time and > inclination to make excelling at Nascar 4 a primary objective of their > life, the only thing the rest of us casual gamers can get really good at is > race starts, because that's the only thing we get to do over and over and > over again, whether or not we want to. > > It seems the only part of racing that Papyrus wants us to experience to is > how utterly frustrating it can be. Um, thanks, but that's really not why I > buy ENTERTAINMENT software in the first place. Despite its phenomenal new > physics engine, gorgeous graphics, and the "you-are-there" feeling it > invokes like no predecessor before it, I'm finding N4 to be an exceedingly > frustrating experience, all because of some mind-bogglingly restrictive and > short-sighted decisions regarding its user interface. > > - Rick

<WHEW!> You sound a little stressed. Damn! It wore me out just to read it! <BIG GRIN> Mike

Tell that to the AI.... Blues "Kevin Anderson" wrote: > Stop wrecking.

ROTFLMAO -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "Kevin Anderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:X5ho6.63849$[email hidden]... > Stop wrecking. > > -- > Kevin Anderson > [email hidden] > > "Rick E." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:6qfo6.1076$[email hidden]... > > The problem with Papyrus is it looks like they keep designing their user > > interfaces after the games are written. Their linear "race weekend" > > paradigm in Nascar 4 is one of the most intrusive barriers to enjoyment > > I've ever seen in a simulation. Not only can you not save mid-race, an > > unforgivable omission in my opinion, you cannot even restart the current > > session without exiting the track and reloading it right back to where you > > were before you had to exit. This seven- or eight-click and 20- to 30- > > second evolution has become very tiresome to me. A lot of times I'll just > > exit the whole damn game rather than sit through Yet Another Track Reload, > > just so I can start the race from scratch AGAIN, just so the idiot AI car > > behind me can ram me into the wall on the second turn AGAIN, just so I can > > exit and wait while the track reloads just to do the whole thing over, > > AGAIN. > > > > Since one track load can be used for the whole race weekend evolution > > (assuming the player doesn't want to redo anything as there is no redo, > > only exit, reload, and start over), the engine is obviously flexible > enough > > to reinitialize a session without having to exit and reload the track. > The > > capability is there, why didn't they give us a button pointing to it for > no > > other reason than to save us from the redundant and time-consuming track > > reload? There's currently a "next session" button, why isn't there a > > "restart current" or even "previous session" button when all the data > > reinitialization capabilities are there as they obviously already are. If > > I restart a race 30 times, that's 15 minutes I spend looking at the stupid > > "loading" screen for no reason whatsoever other than someone at Papyrus > > seems to think that maintaining the integrity of the "race weekend" > > paradigm is more important than alleviating the frustration one > experiences > > when limited by such a linear gameplay design. > > > > Beyond saves and restarts, I don't even understand why you have to qualify > > in the first place. There ought to be a screen where you drag names from > > the 2001 roster on the left to what grid position you want that driver to > > be in on the right. A "randomize" button (the same function > > programmatically that currently resolves qual times) could fill in the > rest > > of the field with the remaining unselected drivers. You could define > > whether this was a starting grid or a mid-race restart under yellow > > including the number of laps elapsed and number of laps since the lead > cars > > last pitted. This is the kind of stuff that simulators do best and the > > means by which we can extract the most enjoyment from them, yet N4 is > > completely devoid of any such functionality. It's unfathomable that the > > game designer has decided that the only way I ought to get good track > > position in this GAME is by actually going through the motions of > > qualifying. Those who enjoy qualifying, as I *sometimes* do, ought to be > > able to do so to their heart's content. But it shouldn't be the ONLY > > avenue available to get to some quick dirty racing, and the bottom line is > > those who don't enjoy qualifying, who bought or might buy N4 just to > > experience SOME of the thrill of NASCAR racing and not necessarily every > > last painful detail of it, are going to quit playing the game long before > > they're going to change their minds and decide that qualifying and all > > the other minutia is fun, and that's a deathknell for anyone who wants to > > see Nascar 4 prosper. > > > > Nor can you practice critical skills like in-race pitstops or last lap > > sprints. How are you ever supposed to get good at the physical and > > strategic elements of pit-stopping if the only time you get to do it is > > while running a real race? Pit-stopping during a practice session doesn't > > have anything to do with what it's like to pit under real race conditions > > and the decisions that must be made accordingly. No "what if I'd only > > taken two tires that last stop?", "what if I'd splashed off instead of > > taking a whole can of fuel -- would I have made it?", or even the simple, > > "gosh, those last 20 laps were so fun I'd just like to play them over and > > over and over again -- not the whole race, just those last 20 laps"? How > > are we supposed to get that kind of experience for real race conditions > > when there's no way to go out and repetitively practice those evolutions > > under real race conditions? Except for those who have the time and > > inclination to make excelling at Nascar 4 a primary objective of their > > life, the only thing the rest of us casual gamers can get really good at > is > > race starts, because that's the only thing we get to do over and over and > > over again, whether or not we want to. > > > > It seems the only part of racing that Papyrus wants us to experience to is > > how utterly frustrating it can be. Um, thanks, but that's really not why > I > > buy ENTERTAINMENT software in the first place. Despite its phenomenal new > > physics engine, gorgeous graphics, and the "you-are-there" feeling it > > invokes like no predecessor before it, I'm finding N4 to be an exceedingly > > frustrating experience, all because of some mind-bogglingly restrictive > and > > short-sighted decisions regarding its user interface. > > > > - Rick > >

"Kevin Anderson" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Stop wrecking. Fair enough. And the way to do that is? Practice. Once again, for those who didn't get it the first time <ahem>, the problem is in order to get practice in N4, you have to keeping loading the track every time you make a single mistake, or everytime the AI decides it wants your line which is about every other turn, so you end up spending as much time looking at the "Loading" screen as you do practicing. Even if one wants to follow your sage advice, N4 forces them to do it in perhaps the most ineffecient way possible. Kudos to you for reinforcing my point. Regards, Rick

[email hidden] (Race1530) wrote: ><WHEW!> You sound a little stressed. Damn! It wore me out just to read ><it! BIG GRIN> Not stressed, just irriated. :) Another great game engine marred by an uncommonly illogical and inefficient user interface. I don't understand how people who are paid to do nothing else but game design can do such a horrible job, or how management could not be close enough to their product to know that its menu is a restrictive burden rather than an invition to play the game anyway one might want to play it. A five-year-old, or a seasoned NASCAR veteran, would pick up N4 and ask, "Ok, how do you get into a good race, and how do I reset it if [when] I screw up at first?" The answer to both those questions in N4 is wholly unsatisfactory to the most casual observer. Verbosely yours, Rick

The UI problems you describe are symptoms of a larger issue: Papyrus didn't design a NASCAR game, but rather a driving sim. NASCAR Racing gameplay hasn't changed. There is no: * rain * second-round qualifying * rule changes * sponsorship-laden career mode (like DTR) * Bud shootout * Daytona qualifying races * Winston all-star race * story (am I a rookie, an Indy drop out, ...?) * victory lane N4 has only just discovered the difference between race and qualifying engines. Also, I've noticed that the AI now seem to have team loyalty. I see Bobby Labonte and Tony Stewart ride around together, as well as Dale Jr. and Michael Waltrip. The game lacks character. How about a shrub impersonator to start the Texas race, or an Elvis impersonator to start the Vegas race? [email hidden] (Rick E.) wrote:

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>It seems the only part of racing that Papyrus wants us to experience to is >how utterly frustrating it can be. Um, thanks, but that's really not why I >buy ENTERTAINMENT software in the first place. Despite its phenomenal new >physics engine, gorgeous graphics, and the "you-are-there" feeling it >invokes like no predecessor before it, I'm finding N4 to be an exceedingly >frustrating experience, all because of some mind-bogglingly restrictive and >short-sighted decisions regarding its user interface.

-- Jon Willeke <[email hidden]>

Rick, I agree with every point you've made here. The bottom line is that Papy is short-sighted in interface development and also the game was released way before it was finished. I can't think of any other industry (other than the software publishing industry) where bringing an incomplete, partially functioning commodity to market is not illegal. It is that way because we accept it, plain and simple. I am so tired of buying software that doesn't do what the publisher says it will do. Brian "Rick E." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6qfo6.1076$[email hidden]...

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> The problem with Papyrus is it looks like they keep designing their user > interfaces after the games are written. Their linear "race weekend" > paradigm in Nascar 4 is one of the most intrusive barriers to enjoyment > I've ever seen in a simulation. Not only can you not save mid-race, an > unforgivable omission in my opinion, you cannot even restart the current > session without exiting the track and reloading it right back to where you > were before you had to exit. This seven- or eight-click and 20- to 30- > second evolution has become very tiresome to me. A lot of times I'll just > exit the whole damn game rather than sit through Yet Another Track Reload, > just so I can start the race from scratch AGAIN, just so the idiot AI car > behind me can ram me into the wall on the second turn AGAIN, just so I can > exit and wait while the track reloads just to do the whole thing over, > AGAIN. > > Since one track load can be used for the whole race weekend evolution > (assuming the player doesn't want to redo anything as there is no redo, > only exit, reload, and start over), the engine is obviously flexible

enough > to reinitialize a session without having to exit and reload the track.The > capability is there, why didn't they give us a button pointing to it forno

Quoted text (8 lines)

> other reason than to save us from the redundant and time-consuming track > reload? There's currently a "next session" button, why isn't there a > "restart current" or even "previous session" button when all the data > reinitialization capabilities are there as they obviously already are. If > I restart a race 30 times, that's 15 minutes I spend looking at the stupid > "loading" screen for no reason whatsoever other than someone at Papyrus > seems to think that maintaining the integrity of the "race weekend" > paradigm is more important than alleviating the frustration one

experiences

Quoted text (7 lines)

> when limited by such a linear gameplay design. > > Beyond saves and restarts, I don't even understand why you have to qualify > in the first place. There ought to be a screen where you drag names from > the 2001 roster on the left to what grid position you want that driver to > be in on the right. A "randomize" button (the same function > programmatically that currently resolves qual times) could fill in the

rest > of the field with the remaining unselected drivers. You could define > whether this was a starting grid or a mid-race restart under yellow > including the number of laps elapsed and number of laps since the leadcars

Quoted text (30 lines)

> last pitted. This is the kind of stuff that simulators do best and the > means by which we can extract the most enjoyment from them, yet N4 is > completely devoid of any such functionality. It's unfathomable that the > game designer has decided that the only way I ought to get good track > position in this GAME is by actually going through the motions of > qualifying. Those who enjoy qualifying, as I *sometimes* do, ought to be > able to do so to their heart's content. But it shouldn't be the ONLY > avenue available to get to some quick dirty racing, and the bottom line is > those who don't enjoy qualifying, who bought or might buy N4 just to > experience SOME of the thrill of NASCAR racing and not necessarily every > last painful detail of it, are going to quit playing the game long before > they're going to change their minds and decide that qualifying and all > the other minutia is fun, and that's a deathknell for anyone who wants to > see Nascar 4 prosper. > > Nor can you practice critical skills like in-race pitstops or last lap > sprints. How are you ever supposed to get good at the physical and > strategic elements of pit-stopping if the only time you get to do it is > while running a real race? Pit-stopping during a practice session doesn't > have anything to do with what it's like to pit under real race conditions > and the decisions that must be made accordingly. No "what if I'd only > taken two tires that last stop?", "what if I'd splashed off instead of > taking a whole can of fuel -- would I have made it?", or even the simple, > "gosh, those last 20 laps were so fun I'd just like to play them over and > over and over again -- not the whole race, just those last 20 laps"? How > are we supposed to get that kind of experience for real race conditions > when there's no way to go out and repetitively practice those evolutions > under real race conditions? Except for those who have the time and > inclination to make excelling at Nascar 4 a primary objective of their > life, the only thing the rest of us casual gamers can get really good at

is > race starts, because that's the only thing we get to do over and over and > over again, whether or not we want to. > > It seems the only part of racing that Papyrus wants us to experience to is > how utterly frustrating it can be. Um, thanks, but that's really not whyI > buy ENTERTAINMENT software in the first place. Despite its phenomenal new > physics engine, gorgeous graphics, and the "you-are-there" feeling it > invokes like no predecessor before it, I'm finding N4 to be an exceedingly > frustrating experience, all because of some mind-bogglingly restrictiveand > short-sighted decisions regarding its user interface. > > - Rick

I would prefer clean and optimized interface in simulations. No background images, quick navigating etc. For example, all setup could be in one page. Jari Jokinen

agree !!!!!!!! "Jari Jokinen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:97tlh2$o54$[email hidden]... > I would prefer clean and optimized interface in simulations. No background > images, quick navigating etc. For example, all setup could be in one page. > > Jari Jokinen > >

The AI stupidity really makes this tiresome, you are right. I think if that were eliminated, the necessity to do this routine would be dependent solely on our own stupidity...which is easier to swallow, at least for me. I run mostly practise mode (with a full field) where I can hit Shift-R every time the AI needlessly generate a 20 car pile-up or try to drive through me as though I wasn't there. Marc. "Rick E." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6qfo6.1076$[email hidden]...

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> The problem with Papyrus is it looks like they keep designing their user > interfaces after the games are written. Their linear "race weekend" > paradigm in Nascar 4 is one of the most intrusive barriers to enjoyment > I've ever seen in a simulation. Not only can you not save mid-race, an > unforgivable omission in my opinion, you cannot even restart the current > session without exiting the track and reloading it right back to where you > were before you had to exit. This seven- or eight-click and 20- to 30- > second evolution has become very tiresome to me. A lot of times I'll just > exit the whole damn game rather than sit through Yet Another Track Reload, > just so I can start the race from scratch AGAIN, just so the idiot AI car > behind me can ram me into the wall on the second turn AGAIN, just so I can > exit and wait while the track reloads just to do the whole thing over, > AGAIN. > > Since one track load can be used for the whole race weekend evolution > (assuming the player doesn't want to redo anything as there is no redo, > only exit, reload, and start over), the engine is obviously flexible

enough > to reinitialize a session without having to exit and reload the track.The > capability is there, why didn't they give us a button pointing to it forno

Quoted text (8 lines)

> other reason than to save us from the redundant and time-consuming track > reload? There's currently a "next session" button, why isn't there a > "restart current" or even "previous session" button when all the data > reinitialization capabilities are there as they obviously already are. If > I restart a race 30 times, that's 15 minutes I spend looking at the stupid > "loading" screen for no reason whatsoever other than someone at Papyrus > seems to think that maintaining the integrity of the "race weekend" > paradigm is more important than alleviating the frustration one

experiences

Quoted text (7 lines)

> when limited by such a linear gameplay design. > > Beyond saves and restarts, I don't even understand why you have to qualify > in the first place. There ought to be a screen where you drag names from > the 2001 roster on the left to what grid position you want that driver to > be in on the right. A "randomize" button (the same function > programmatically that currently resolves qual times) could fill in the

rest > of the field with the remaining unselected drivers. You could define > whether this was a starting grid or a mid-race restart under yellow > including the number of laps elapsed and number of laps since the leadcars

Quoted text (30 lines)

> last pitted. This is the kind of stuff that simulators do best and the > means by which we can extract the most enjoyment from them, yet N4 is > completely devoid of any such functionality. It's unfathomable that the > game designer has decided that the only way I ought to get good track > position in this GAME is by actually going through the motions of > qualifying. Those who enjoy qualifying, as I *sometimes* do, ought to be > able to do so to their heart's content. But it shouldn't be the ONLY > avenue available to get to some quick dirty racing, and the bottom line is > those who don't enjoy qualifying, who bought or might buy N4 just to > experience SOME of the thrill of NASCAR racing and not necessarily every > last painful detail of it, are going to quit playing the game long before > they're going to change their minds and decide that qualifying and all > the other minutia is fun, and that's a deathknell for anyone who wants to > see Nascar 4 prosper. > > Nor can you practice critical skills like in-race pitstops or last lap > sprints. How are you ever supposed to get good at the physical and > strategic elements of pit-stopping if the only time you get to do it is > while running a real race? Pit-stopping during a practice session doesn't > have anything to do with what it's like to pit under real race conditions > and the decisions that must be made accordingly. No "what if I'd only > taken two tires that last stop?", "what if I'd splashed off instead of > taking a whole can of fuel -- would I have made it?", or even the simple, > "gosh, those last 20 laps were so fun I'd just like to play them over and > over and over again -- not the whole race, just those last 20 laps"? How > are we supposed to get that kind of experience for real race conditions > when there's no way to go out and repetitively practice those evolutions > under real race conditions? Except for those who have the time and > inclination to make excelling at Nascar 4 a primary objective of their > life, the only thing the rest of us casual gamers can get really good at

is > race starts, because that's the only thing we get to do over and over and > over again, whether or not we want to. > > It seems the only part of racing that Papyrus wants us to experience to is > how utterly frustrating it can be. Um, thanks, but that's really not whyI > buy ENTERTAINMENT software in the first place. Despite its phenomenal new > physics engine, gorgeous graphics, and the "you-are-there" feeling it > invokes like no predecessor before it, I'm finding N4 to be an exceedingly > frustrating experience, all because of some mind-bogglingly restrictiveand > short-sighted decisions regarding its user interface. > > - Rick

i have to agree wholeheartedly . my spin on this ,is why do game developers insist on building full screen gui's at all? what's wrong with the windows one ,i quite like it myself..... bottom line ,these guys have their heads up their bottoms... the only bit of a game that should run full screen ,should be the game.... and i should be able to adjust everything ,how can i beta the thing if i dont have access to it's functions? you are correct ,rick ,in that if this is not deliberate ,then it belies a level of sloth ,incompetence and deviousness that borders way beyond criminality .... 'nuffsed

Blues DeVille wrote: > Tell that to the AI.... > > Blues > > "Kevin Anderson" wrote: > > Stop wrecking. Indeed. Doesn't the AI have a spotter that >tells< him "car inside?" Apparently not... John DiFool

Marc Collins wrote:

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> The AI stupidity really makes this tiresome, you are right. I think if that > were eliminated, the necessity to do this routine would be dependent solely > on our own stupidity...which is easier to swallow, at least for me. > > I run mostly practise mode (with a full field) where I can hit Shift-R every > time the AI needlessly generate a 20 car pile-up or try to drive through me > as though I wasn't there. > > Marc. >

Well, that's because the AI often drives >through< itself as if the other car isn't there all the time! I'll often see cars in the high groove at 'Dega merging like that (hardly ever crashing). So I guess it expects to pass through the human player like a ghost too, hence the wrecks... John DiFool

quoting myself, I wrote: >Beyond saves and restarts, I don't even understand why you have to >qualify in the first place. There ought to be a screen where you drag >names from the 2001 roster on the left to what grid position you want >that driver to be in on the right. If this was implemented, we could all download the real starting grid for the Winston Cup race every weekend. I think that'd be pretty cool.

On Sun, 04 Mar 2001 05:02:53 GMT, [email hidden] (Rick E.) wrote wonderful things about sparkplugs: Now Rick I can get behind this version of your rant. $"Kevin Anderson" <[email hidden]> wrote: $ $>Stop wrecking. $ $Fair enough. And the way to do that is? Practice. $ $Once again, for those who didn't get it the first time <ahem>, the problem $is in order to get practice in N4, you have to keeping loading the track $every time you make a single mistake, or everytime the AI decides it $wants your line which is about every other turn, so you end up spending as $much time looking at the "Loading" screen as you do practicing. Even if $one wants to follow your sage advice, N4 forces them to do it in perhaps $the most ineffecient way possible. Kudos to you for reinforcing my point. $ $Regards, $Rick

Yeah that sucks Shift-R, or ESC shouldve been left in Rick E. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:10ko6.1736$[email hidden]...

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> "Kevin Anderson" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Stop wrecking. > > Fair enough. And the way to do that is? Practice. > > Once again, for those who didn't get it the first time <ahem>, the problem > is in order to get practice in N4, you have to keeping loading the track > every time you make a single mistake, or everytime the AI decides it > wants your line which is about every other turn, so you end up spending as > much time looking at the "Loading" screen as you do practicing. Even if > one wants to follow your sage advice, N4 forces them to do it in perhaps > the most ineffecient way possible. Kudos to you for reinforcing my point. > > Regards, > Rick

Keep in mind N4 is a rewrite of GPL Heat is a rewrite of Viper WSC will be the only game that is truly from scratch that will be worth anything E.V.Phelps <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:97trdh$iot$[email hidden]...

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> i have to agree wholeheartedly . > my spin on this ,is why do game developers insist on building full screen > gui's at all? > what's wrong with the windows one ,i quite like it myself..... > bottom line ,these guys have their heads up their bottoms... > the only bit of a game that should run full screen ,should be the game.... > and i should be able to adjust everything ,how can i beta the thing if i > dont have access to it's functions? > you are correct ,rick ,in that if this is not deliberate ,then it belies a > level of sloth ,incompetence and deviousness that borders way beyond > criminality .... > > 'nuffsed > > >

AMEN!!!! I've been dreaming of such a utility ever since N1. I know someone once did create such a utility for league once, but would only give such a utiltiy to a league director and gave an end user utility for placing their car in a predetermined slot. "Rick E." wrote:

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> quoting myself, I wrote: > > >Beyond saves and restarts, I don't even understand why you have to > >qualify in the first place. There ought to be a screen where you drag > >names from the 2001 roster on the left to what grid position you want > >that driver to be in on the right. > > If this was implemented, we could all download the real starting grid > for the Winston Cup race every weekend. I think that'd be pretty cool.

If Sierra/Papyrus would release the format of the .svg files, I (or anyone) could write a utility to [re]create starting grids with the user's preferred race options. That'd be fantastic. - Rick Mike Donnelly Jr <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>AMEN!!!! I've been dreaming of such a utility ever since N1. I know >someone once did create such a utility for league once, but would only >give such a utiltiy to a league director and gave an end user utility >for placing their car in a predetermined slot. > > >"Rick E." wrote: > >> quoting myself, I wrote: >> >> >Beyond saves and restarts, I don't even understand why you have to >> >qualify in the first place. There ought to be a screen where you >> >drag names from the 2001 roster on the left to what grid position you >> >want that driver to be in on the right. >> >> If this was implemented, we could all download the real starting grid >> for the Winston Cup race every weekend. I think that'd be pretty >> cool. >

Kevin obviously hasn't set the AI past 87%...perhaps he's too busy playing pong. Don Burnette wrote:

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> ROTFLMAO > > -- > Don Burnette > D Burnette in N4 > > Some people do nothing wrong. > The problem is, they do nothing. > And THAT is wrong. > > "Kevin Anderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:X5ho6.63849$[email hidden]... > > Stop wrecking. > > > > -- > > Kevin Anderson > > [email hidden] > > > > "Rick E." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:6qfo6.1076$[email hidden]... > > > The problem with Papyrus is it looks like they keep designing their user > > > interfaces after the games are written. Their linear "race weekend" > > > paradigm in Nascar 4 is one of the most intrusive barriers to enjoyment > > > I've ever seen in a simulation. Not only can you not save mid-race, an > > > unforgivable omission in my opinion, you cannot even restart the current > > > session without exiting the track and reloading it right back to where > you > > > were before you had to exit. This seven- or eight-click and 20- to 30- > > > second evolution has become very tiresome to me. A lot of times I'll > just > > > exit the whole damn game rather than sit through Yet Another Track > Reload, > > > just so I can start the race from scratch AGAIN, just so the idiot AI > car > > > behind me can ram me into the wall on the second turn AGAIN, just so I > can > > > exit and wait while the track reloads just to do the whole thing over, > > > AGAIN. > > > > > > Since one track load can be used for the whole race weekend evolution > > > (assuming the player doesn't want to redo anything as there is no redo, > > > only exit, reload, and start over), the engine is obviously flexible > > enough > > > to reinitialize a session without having to exit and reload the track. > > The > > > capability is there, why didn't they give us a button pointing to it for > > no > > > other reason than to save us from the redundant and time-consuming track > > > reload? There's currently a "next session" button, why isn't there a > > > "restart current" or even "previous session" button when all the data > > > reinitialization capabilities are there as they obviously already are. > If > > > I restart a race 30 times, that's 15 minutes I spend looking at the > stupid > > > "loading" screen for no reason whatsoever other than someone at Papyrus > > > seems to think that maintaining the integrity of the "race weekend" > > > paradigm is more important than alleviating the frustration one > > experiences > > > when limited by such a linear gameplay design. > > > > > > Beyond saves and restarts, I don't even understand why you have to > qualify > > > in the first place. There ought to be a screen where you drag names > from > > > the 2001 roster on the left to what grid position you want that driver > to > > > be in on the right. A "randomize" button (the same function > > > programmatically that currently resolves qual times) could fill in the > > rest > > > of the field with the remaining unselected drivers. You could define > > > whether this was a starting grid or a mid-race restart under yellow > > > including the number of laps elapsed and number of laps since the lead > > cars > > > last pitted. This is the kind of stuff that simulators do best and the > > > means by which we can extract the most enjoyment from them, yet N4 is > > > completely devoid of any such functionality. It's unfathomable that the > > > game designer has decided that the only way I ought to get good track > > > position in this GAME is by actually going through the motions of > > > qualifying. Those who enjoy qualifying, as I *sometimes* do, ought to > be > > > able to do so to their heart's content. But it shouldn't be the ONLY > > > avenue available to get to some quick dirty racing, and the bottom line > is > > > those who don't enjoy qualifying, who bought or might buy N4 just to > > > experience SOME of the thrill of NASCAR racing and not necessarily every > > > last painful detail of it, are going to quit playing the game long > before > > > they're going to change their minds and decide that qualifying and all > > > the other minutia is fun, and that's a deathknell for anyone who wants > to > > > see Nascar 4 prosper. > > > > > > Nor can you practice critical skills like in-race pitstops or last lap > > > sprints. How are you ever supposed to get good at the physical and > > > strategic elements of pit-stopping if the only time you get to do it is > > > while running a real race? Pit-stopping during a practice session > doesn't > > > have anything to do with what it's like to pit under real race > conditions > > > and the decisions that must be made accordingly. No "what if I'd only > > > taken two tires that last stop?", "what if I'd splashed off instead of > > > taking a whole can of fuel -- would I have made it?", or even the > simple, > > > "gosh, those last 20 laps were so fun I'd just like to play them over > and > > > over and over again -- not the whole race, just those last 20 laps"? > How > > > are we supposed to get that kind of experience for real race conditions > > > when there's no way to go out and repetitively practice those evolutions > > > under real race conditions? Except for those who have the time and > > > inclination to make excelling at Nascar 4 a primary objective of their > > > life, the only thing the rest of us casual gamers can get really good at > > is > > > race starts, because that's the only thing we get to do over and over > and > > > over again, whether or not we want to. > > > > > > It seems the only part of racing that Papyrus wants us to experience to > is > > > how utterly frustrating it can be. Um, thanks, but that's really not > why > > I > > > buy ENTERTAINMENT software in the first place. Despite its phenomenal > new > > > physics engine, gorgeous graphics, and the "you-are-there" feeling it > > > invokes like no predecessor before it, I'm finding N4 to be an > exceedingly > > > frustrating experience, all because of some mind-bogglingly restrictive > > and > > > short-sighted decisions regarding its user interface. > > > > > > - Rick > > > >

I like the way the ai drive except that they check up too much sometimes. "John DiFool" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Blues DeVille wrote: > > > Tell that to the AI.... > > > > Blues > > > > "Kevin Anderson" wrote: > > > Stop wrecking. > > Indeed. Doesn't the AI have a spotter that >tells< > him "car inside?" Apparently not... > > John DiFool > > > >

???????????? mine works great. what r u talking about? "Brian Carabee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:helo6.127$[email hidden]... > Rick, > > I agree with every point you've made here. The bottom line is that Papy is > short-sighted in interface development and also the game was released way > before it was finished. I can't think of any other industry (other thanthe

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> software publishing industry) where bringing an incomplete, partially > functioning commodity to market is not illegal. > > It is that way because we accept it, plain and simple. I am so tired of > buying software that doesn't do what the publisher says it will do. > > Brian > > > "Rick E." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:6qfo6.1076$[email hidden]... > > The problem with Papyrus is it looks like they keep designing their user > > interfaces after the games are written. Their linear "race weekend" > > paradigm in Nascar 4 is one of the most intrusive barriers to enjoyment > > I've ever seen in a simulation. Not only can you not save mid-race, an > > unforgivable omission in my opinion, you cannot even restart the current > > session without exiting the track and reloading it right back to where

you > > were before you had to exit. This seven- or eight-click and 20- to 30- > > second evolution has become very tiresome to me. A lot of times I'lljust > > exit the whole damn game rather than sit through Yet Another TrackReload, > > just so I can start the race from scratch AGAIN, just so the idiot AIcar > > behind me can ram me into the wall on the second turn AGAIN, just so Ican

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> > exit and wait while the track reloads just to do the whole thing over, > > AGAIN. > > > > Since one track load can be used for the whole race weekend evolution > > (assuming the player doesn't want to redo anything as there is no redo, > > only exit, reload, and start over), the engine is obviously flexible > enough > > to reinitialize a session without having to exit and reload the track. > The > > capability is there, why didn't they give us a button pointing to it for > no > > other reason than to save us from the redundant and time-consuming track > > reload? There's currently a "next session" button, why isn't there a > > "restart current" or even "previous session" button when all the data > > reinitialization capabilities are there as they obviously already are.

If > > I restart a race 30 times, that's 15 minutes I spend looking at thestupid

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> > "loading" screen for no reason whatsoever other than someone at Papyrus > > seems to think that maintaining the integrity of the "race weekend" > > paradigm is more important than alleviating the frustration one > experiences > > when limited by such a linear gameplay design. > > > > Beyond saves and restarts, I don't even understand why you have to

qualify > > in the first place. There ought to be a screen where you drag namesfrom > > the 2001 roster on the left to what grid position you want that driverto

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> > be in on the right. A "randomize" button (the same function > > programmatically that currently resolves qual times) could fill in the > rest > > of the field with the remaining unselected drivers. You could define > > whether this was a starting grid or a mid-race restart under yellow > > including the number of laps elapsed and number of laps since the lead > cars > > last pitted. This is the kind of stuff that simulators do best and the > > means by which we can extract the most enjoyment from them, yet N4 is > > completely devoid of any such functionality. It's unfathomable that the > > game designer has decided that the only way I ought to get good track > > position in this GAME is by actually going through the motions of > > qualifying. Those who enjoy qualifying, as I *sometimes* do, ought to

be > > able to do so to their heart's content. But it shouldn't be the ONLY > > avenue available to get to some quick dirty racing, and the bottom lineis > > those who don't enjoy qualifying, who bought or might buy N4 just to > > experience SOME of the thrill of NASCAR racing and not necessarily every > > last painful detail of it, are going to quit playing the game longbefore > > they're going to change their minds and decide that qualifying and all > > the other minutia is fun, and that's a deathknell for anyone who wantsto > > see Nascar 4 prosper. > > > > Nor can you practice critical skills like in-race pitstops or last lap > > sprints. How are you ever supposed to get good at the physical and > > strategic elements of pit-stopping if the only time you get to do it is > > while running a real race? Pit-stopping during a practice sessiondoesn't > > have anything to do with what it's like to pit under real raceconditions > > and the decisions that must be made accordingly. No "what if I'd only > > taken two tires that last stop?", "what if I'd splashed off instead of > > taking a whole can of fuel -- would I have made it?", or even thesimple, > > "gosh, those last 20 laps were so fun I'd just like to play them overand > > over and over again -- not the whole race, just those last 20 laps"?How

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> > are we supposed to get that kind of experience for real race conditions > > when there's no way to go out and repetitively practice those evolutions > > under real race conditions? Except for those who have the time and > > inclination to make excelling at Nascar 4 a primary objective of their > > life, the only thing the rest of us casual gamers can get really good at > is > > race starts, because that's the only thing we get to do over and over

and > > over again, whether or not we want to. > > > > It seems the only part of racing that Papyrus wants us to experience tois > > how utterly frustrating it can be. Um, thanks, but that's really notwhy > I > > buy ENTERTAINMENT software in the first place. Despite its phenomenalnew > > physics engine, gorgeous graphics, and the "you-are-there" feeling it > > invokes like no predecessor before it, I'm finding N4 to be anexceedingly

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> > frustrating experience, all because of some mind-bogglingly restrictive > and > > short-sighted decisions regarding its user interface. > > > > - Rick > > >

The ai have never tried to drive through me yall need more situational awareness. "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Pduo6.336415$[email hidden]... > The AI stupidity really makes this tiresome, you are right. I think ifthat > were eliminated, the necessity to do this routine would be dependentsolely > on our own stupidity...which is easier to swallow, at least for me. > > I run mostly practise mode (with a full field) where I can hit Shift-Revery > time the AI needlessly generate a 20 car pile-up or try to drive throughme

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> as though I wasn't there. > > Marc. > > "Rick E." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:6qfo6.1076$[email hidden]... > > The problem with Papyrus is it looks like they keep designing their user > > interfaces after the games are written. Their linear "race weekend" > > paradigm in Nascar 4 is one of the most intrusive barriers to enjoyment > > I've ever seen in a simulation. Not only can you not save mid-race, an > > unforgivable omission in my opinion, you cannot even restart the current > > session without exiting the track and reloading it right back to where

you > > were before you had to exit. This seven- or eight-click and 20- to 30- > > second evolution has become very tiresome to me. A lot of times I'lljust > > exit the whole damn game rather than sit through Yet Another TrackReload, > > just so I can start the race from scratch AGAIN, just so the idiot AIcar > > behind me can ram me into the wall on the second turn AGAIN, just so Ican

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> > exit and wait while the track reloads just to do the whole thing over, > > AGAIN. > > > > Since one track load can be used for the whole race weekend evolution > > (assuming the player doesn't want to redo anything as there is no redo, > > only exit, reload, and start over), the engine is obviously flexible > enough > > to reinitialize a session without having to exit and reload the track. > The > > capability is there, why didn't they give us a button pointing to it for > no > > other reason than to save us from the redundant and time-consuming track > > reload? There's currently a "next session" button, why isn't there a > > "restart current" or even "previous session" button when all the data > > reinitialization capabilities are there as they obviously already are.

If > > I restart a race 30 times, that's 15 minutes I spend looking at thestupid

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> > "loading" screen for no reason whatsoever other than someone at Papyrus > > seems to think that maintaining the integrity of the "race weekend" > > paradigm is more important than alleviating the frustration one > experiences > > when limited by such a linear gameplay design. > > > > Beyond saves and restarts, I don't even understand why you have to

qualify > > in the first place. There ought to be a screen where you drag namesfrom > > the 2001 roster on the left to what grid position you want that driverto

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> > be in on the right. A "randomize" button (the same function > > programmatically that currently resolves qual times) could fill in the > rest > > of the field with the remaining unselected drivers. You could define > > whether this was a starting grid or a mid-race restart under yellow > > including the number of laps elapsed and number of laps since the lead > cars > > last pitted. This is the kind of stuff that simulators do best and the > > means by which we can extract the most enjoyment from them, yet N4 is > > completely devoid of any such functionality. It's unfathomable that the > > game designer has decided that the only way I ought to get good track > > position in this GAME is by actually going through the motions of > > qualifying. Those who enjoy qualifying, as I *sometimes* do, ought to

be > > able to do so to their heart's content. But it shouldn't be the ONLY > > avenue available to get to some quick dirty racing, and the bottom lineis > > those who don't enjoy qualifying, who bought or might buy N4 just to > > experience SOME of the thrill of NASCAR racing and not necessarily every > > last painful detail of it, are going to quit playing the game longbefore > > they're going to change their minds and decide that qualifying and all > > the other minutia is fun, and that's a deathknell for anyone who wantsto > > see Nascar 4 prosper. > > > > Nor can you practice critical skills like in-race pitstops or last lap > > sprints. How are you ever supposed to get good at the physical and > > strategic elements of pit-stopping if the only time you get to do it is > > while running a real race? Pit-stopping during a practice sessiondoesn't > > have anything to do with what it's like to pit under real raceconditions > > and the decisions that must be made accordingly. No "what if I'd only > > taken two tires that last stop?", "what if I'd splashed off instead of > > taking a whole can of fuel -- would I have made it?", or even thesimple, > > "gosh, those last 20 laps were so fun I'd just like to play them overand > > over and over again -- not the whole race, just those last 20 laps"?How

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> > are we supposed to get that kind of experience for real race conditions > > when there's no way to go out and repetitively practice those evolutions > > under real race conditions? Except for those who have the time and > > inclination to make excelling at Nascar 4 a primary objective of their > > life, the only thing the rest of us casual gamers can get really good at > is > > race starts, because that's the only thing we get to do over and over

and > > over again, whether or not we want to. > > > > It seems the only part of racing that Papyrus wants us to experience tois > > how utterly frustrating it can be. Um, thanks, but that's really notwhy > I > > buy ENTERTAINMENT software in the first place. Despite its phenomenalnew > > physics engine, gorgeous graphics, and the "you-are-there" feeling it > > invokes like no predecessor before it, I'm finding N4 to be anexceedingly

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> > frustrating experience, all because of some mind-bogglingly restrictive > and > > short-sighted decisions regarding its user interface. > > > > - Rick > > >

Ronnie, You mention that we need more situational awareness. You apparently are quite unaware of the glaring problems with the AI. They do in fact try to drive through you. They are also almost completely unaware of your existence on the track. From your messages, it is apparent that your style of driving is that you avoid getting in the way of the AI drivers, and you call this "situational awareness". I submit that avoiding lines of cars that just drive around the rack in a robotic fashion does not constitute a racing simulator. All of us in this newsgroup can drive to carefully avoid the Ai drivers, but then we wouldn't be driving competitively, would we? Brian "Ronnie Bigwhip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Y7No6.18592$[email hidden]...

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> The ai have never tried to drive through me yall need more situational > awareness. > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Pduo6.336415$[email hidden]... > > The AI stupidity really makes this tiresome, you are right. I think if > that > > were eliminated, the necessity to do this routine would be dependent > solely > > on our own stupidity...which is easier to swallow, at least for me. > > > > I run mostly practise mode (with a full field) where I can hit Shift-R > every > > time the AI needlessly generate a 20 car pile-up or try to drive through > me > > as though I wasn't there. > > > > Marc.

Or, he doesn't drive with a full field. It's easy to avoid the AI with half a dozen of them on the track. Try it with 42. Marc. "Brian Carabee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1BQo6.344$[email hidden]... > Ronnie, > > You mention that we need more situational awareness. You apparently are > quite unaware of the glaring problems with the AI. They do in fact try to > drive through you. They are also almost completely unaware of yourexistence > on the track. From your messages, it is apparent that your style ofdriving

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> is that you avoid getting in the way of the AI drivers, and you call this > "situational awareness". I submit that avoiding lines of cars that just > drive around the rack in a robotic fashion does not constitute a racing > simulator. All of us in this newsgroup can drive to carefully avoid the Ai > drivers, but then we wouldn't be driving competitively, would we? > > Brian > > > "Ronnie Bigwhip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Y7No6.18592$[email hidden]... > > The ai have never tried to drive through me yall need more situational > > awareness. > > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:Pduo6.336415$[email hidden]... > > > The AI stupidity really makes this tiresome, you are right. I think

if

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> > that > > > were eliminated, the necessity to do this routine would be dependent > > solely > > > on our own stupidity...which is easier to swallow, at least for me. > > > > > > I run mostly practise mode (with a full field) where I can hit Shift-R > > every > > > time the AI needlessly generate a 20 car pile-up or try to drive

through

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> > me > > > as though I wasn't there. > > > > > > Marc. > > >

>"Rick E." <[email hidden]> wrote > Once again, for those who didn't get it the first time <ahem>, the problem > is in order to get practice in N4, you have to keeping loading the track > every time you make a single mistake Please use your brain. It's obvious that while racing offline with a goal to practice your skills, final race results are not important. Also, getting damaged and racing while damaged is a very minor part of racing. You DO NOT need to get out each time. Just back off and wait for the AI to catch you again. Was that too hard to think for the MTV-generation with a 5second attention span? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

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>"Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote > Keep in mind > N4 is a rewrite of GPL > Heat is a rewrite of Viper > > WSC will be the only game that is truly from scratch that will be worth > anything

Uh? N4 and GPL share the same game engine. Heat and Viper share the same game engine. That's all the resemblance between the software. They are not rewrites. It also doesn't make it less worth it. Using your logic, WSC is probably a rewrite of a technology demo the West bros created. Does it mean it's not worth it? Absolutely not. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

In article <tIVo6.342076$[email hidden]>, "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> writes: >Or, he doesn't drive with a full field. It's easy to avoid the AI with half >a dozen of them on the track. Try it with 42. > Assuming his system will RUN with 42 other cars... He might have a slower system, and has to decrease the number to get good framerates. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Please use your brain. It's obvious that while racing offline with a >goal to practice your skills, final race results are not important. Your problem is in order for someone to be "using their brain", you think it means they must be agreeing with you. I don't race offline to practice my skills. I race offline to have fun against supposedly competent AI. The only thing that's "obvious", genius, is that we're not both looking for the same thing out of N4, and the difference is I accept your opinion as yours without thinking that makes you an idiot. Maybe you only play online. Maybe you only play with five other cars on the track. Maybe you just like watching downloadable replays. Whatever the case, if the game has some glaring design flaws in any of your pet areas, I wouldn't blame you for voicing your dissatisfaction with it. I just want to run a reasonable 1/3 to 1/2 length race against the AI and if things go horribly wrong, be it the incredibly adept AI <cough>, an interruption in the real world, or just me screwing the poop and putting her into the wall, to not be forced to lose the one or two hour investment I have going in a good race. You, the genius, are telling me, the idiot, that I'm playing N4 "wrong"? Hehe, that makes me giddy. Thanks for the tip, Einstein. >Also, getting damaged and racing while damaged is a very >minor part of racing. This is just flat wrong depending on the track. >You DO NOT need to get out each time. You don't, maybe I do for reasons you might not possibly be able to comprehend. That's not stupidity, that's different preferences. See above. >Was that too hard to think for the >MTV-generation with a 5second attention span? I don't know, I have no idea what being part of the "MTV-generation" is supposed to mean. I'm 36 but I have seen some VH-1. I'll even admit I enjoy Pop-Up Videos when I happen to catch them on the way up to the History Channel. They usually last three to four minutes, though, not just five seconds. > -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, > but they don't realise how hard it is to put up > with all the idiots in the world. Real genuises understand that human interaction is not about "putting up with all the idiots in the world", it's about understanding that diversity of preference and opinion is ultimately mankind's strength and that everyone, EVERYONE, brings something to the table. Good luck on your trek (a long one, I suspect) through maturity. All the best, Rick

Of course, but it doesn't change the point. Marc. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <tIVo6.342076$[email hidden]>, "MarcCollins" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Or, he doesn't drive with a full field. It's easy to avoid the AI withhalf

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> >a dozen of them on the track. Try it with 42. > > > > Assuming his system will RUN with 42 other cars... He might have a slower > system, and has to decrease the number to get good framerates. > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** No shit. The AI will rip your fenders off at Lowe's. -Larry "John DiFool" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (17 lines)

> Blues DeVille wrote: > > > Tell that to the AI.... > > > > Blues > > > > "Kevin Anderson" wrote: > > > Stop wrecking. > > Indeed. Doesn't the AI have a spotter that >tells< > him "car inside?" Apparently not... > > John DiFool > > > >

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>"Rick E." <[email hidden]> wrote<snip> You snipped the portion when I answered you with the basic idea that you should back off and let the field catch you again. Just mentally think your on the same lap. Perhaps it went right over your head. Or just press PAUSE. But nooooo, you had to go in a random psycho-boring-babble and simile-flaming. And be stupid enough to think seriously of my .sig. HA! Nice try... -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

In article <EBlp6.33$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Rick E.) writes:

Quoted text (15 lines)

>"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Please use your brain. It's obvious that while racing offline with a >>goal to practice your skills, final race results are not important. > >Your problem is in order for someone to be "using their brain", you think >it means they must be agreeing with you. I don't race offline to practice >my skills. I race offline to have fun against supposedly competent AI. >The only thing that's "obvious", genius, is that we're not both looking for >the same thing out of N4, and the difference is I accept your opinion as >yours without thinking that makes you an idiot. Maybe you only play >online. Maybe you only play with five other cars on the track. Maybe you >just like watching downloadable replays. Whatever the case, if the game >has some glaring design flaws in any of your pet areas, I wouldn't blame >you for voicing your dissatisfaction with it.

Not to defend Ymenard, this is what he responded to: >"Rick E." <[email hidden]> wrote > Once again, for those who didn't get it the first time <ahem>, the problem > is in order to get practice in N4, you have to keeping loading the track > every time you make a single mistake This suggests that you were only trying to practice to improve your skills/driving. There's nothing there that says you were simply trying to compete against the AI. <shrug> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: >You snipped the portion when I answered you with the basic idea that you >should back off and let the field catch you again. Just mentally think >your on the same lap. Perhaps it went right over your head. Or just >press PAUSE. Yes, that's much more fun than actually trying to run a race in a <gasp> "racing sim". Yawn. - Rick

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >> Once again, for those who didn't get it the first time <ahem>, the problem

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>> is in order to get practice in N4, you have to keeping loading the track >> every time you make a single mistake >This suggests that you were only trying to practice to improve your >skills/driving. There's nothing there that says you were simply trying >to compete against the AI. ><shrug>

The thread was I didn't like the fact that you can't save a race, or even restart one without exiting the track and reloading it. Some smartass said "practice more", so I said, "fair enough, problem is is that even practicing racing in a pain in the butt with this user interface, IMHO." - Rick

In article <rv_q6.17$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Rick E.) writes:

Quoted text (17 lines)

>[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >>> Once again, for those who didn't get it the first time <ahem>, the >problem >>> is in order to get practice in N4, you have to keeping loading the track >>> every time you make a single mistake > > >>This suggests that you were only trying to practice to improve your >>skills/driving. There's nothing there that says you were simply trying >>to compete against the AI. >><shrug> > >The thread was I didn't like the fact that you can't save a race, or even >restart one without exiting the track and reloading it. Some smartass said >"practice more", so I said, "fair enough, problem is is that even >practicing racing in a pain in the butt with this user interface, IMHO."

Fair enough. <g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.