N4..impressive..but ..

well..it finally arrived in europe...been driving it for the last couple of days...had the demo aswell... And still...the main annoyance for me is the complete lack of sensation of speed...and no i'm not gonna drive from the roof cam just to get that sensation. Compared to GPL it feels as if you're driving 20 mph instead of 150+. The N4 demo had the same..but i bought N4 anyways cause it does other things so well... It becomes even more obvious on a track like watkins glen...you brake hard for that first corner...you go thru it at what seems 10mph but it's actually 65.....urrggggh. I know...physics..awesome...other things..lovely...but i'd like to get a 'wow....rooooooocckkk n roooooollll' feeling when i go fast... Now papy....go do a CART sim...:) cheers, Willem

Is it possible that you don't feel the speed in the real cars either? I had a motorcycle that at 55mph you would swear you were doing 10mph and 140mph seemed like a nice cruising speed. Also I don't get a sense of how fast I am going when in a friend of mine's Corvette. Feels like we are crawling. -- Kevin Anderson [email hidden] "willem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > well..it finally arrived in europe...been driving it for the last > couple of days...had the demo aswell... > And still...the main annoyance for me is the complete lack of > sensation of speed...and no i'm not gonna drive from the roof cam > just to get that sensation. > Compared to GPL it feels as if you're driving 20 mph instead of 150+. > The N4 demo had the same..but i bought N4 anyways cause it does other > things so well... > It becomes even more obvious on a track like watkins glen...you brake > hard for that first corner...you go thru it at what seems 10mph but > it's actually 65.....urrggggh. > I know...physics..awesome...other things..lovely...but i'd like to get > a 'wow....rooooooocckkk n roooooollll' feeling when i go fast... > > Now papy....go do a CART sim...:) > > cheers, > Willem > >

I've always felt that way about papy sims. Especially when Heat came out, those guys really captured the speed sensation. They've got an IRL / CART patch out for HEAT that really makes you feel the speed, it takes a long time for me to get used to N4 again after playing it. David Stamper Diamond Star Racing http://webpages.charter.net/dstamper "willem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > well..it finally arrived in europe...been driving it for the last > couple of days...had the demo aswell... > And still...the main annoyance for me is the complete lack of > sensation of speed...and no i'm not gonna drive from the roof cam > just to get that sensation. > Compared to GPL it feels as if you're driving 20 mph instead of 150+. > The N4 demo had the same..but i bought N4 anyways cause it does other > things so well... > It becomes even more obvious on a track like watkins glen...you brake > hard for that first corner...you go thru it at what seems 10mph but > it's actually 65.....urrggggh. > I know...physics..awesome...other things..lovely...but i'd like to get > a 'wow....rooooooocckkk n roooooollll' feeling when i go fast... > > Now papy....go do a CART sim...:) > > cheers, > Willem > >

Well...never dirven a nascar:) But i've driven many cars..including a seriously fast 911 and yeah..after getting of the highway and doing the 35mph zones it feels as if you're standing still...but you can still tell it's 35 mph..and not 10..it just feels slow but visually it's correct...and if you're doing 130mph you can visually tell it's 130mph...and not 60...even though the car gives the sensation it's doing that 130 with ease... In N4 it really feels off for me.. As in the other reply..i agree that Nascar Heat does that speed sensation thing really very well. Cheerios On Tue, 01 May 2001 10:57:20 GMT, "Kevin Anderson" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Is it possible that you don't feel the speed in the real cars either? I had >a motorcycle that at 55mph you would swear you were doing 10mph and 140mph >seemed like a nice cruising speed. Also I don't get a sense of how fast I am >going when in a friend of mine's Corvette. Feels like we are crawling.

willem wrote:

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> > well..it finally arrived in europe...been driving it for the last > couple of days...had the demo aswell... > And still...the main annoyance for me is the complete lack of > sensation of speed...and no i'm not gonna drive from the roof cam > just to get that sensation. > Compared to GPL it feels as if you're driving 20 mph instead of 150+. > The N4 demo had the same..but i bought N4 anyways cause it does other > things so well... > It becomes even more obvious on a track like watkins glen...you brake > hard for that first corner...you go thru it at what seems 10mph but > it's actually 65.....urrggggh. > I know...physics..awesome...other things..lovely...but i'd like to get > a 'wow....rooooooocckkk n roooooollll' feeling when i go fast... > > Now papy....go do a CART sim...:) > > cheers, > Willem

This might solve your problems http://www.legendscentral.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000200.html Kev

Would be nice if that view was actually released :) "Kevin Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> willem wrote: > > > > well..it finally arrived in europe...been driving it for the last > > couple of days...had the demo aswell... > > And still...the main annoyance for me is the complete lack of > > sensation of speed...and no i'm not gonna drive from the roof cam > > just to get that sensation. > > Compared to GPL it feels as if you're driving 20 mph instead of 150+. > > The N4 demo had the same..but i bought N4 anyways cause it does other > > things so well... > > It becomes even more obvious on a track like watkins glen...you brake > > hard for that first corner...you go thru it at what seems 10mph but > > it's actually 65.....urrggggh. > > I know...physics..awesome...other things..lovely...but i'd like to get > > a 'wow....rooooooocckkk n roooooollll' feeling when i go fast... > > > > Now papy....go do a CART sim...:) > > > > cheers, > > Willem > > This might solve your problems > http://www.legendscentral.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000200.html > > Kev

>"willem" <[email hidden]> wrote > And still...the main annoyance for me is the complete lack of > sensation of speed... Since it's a realistic sense of speed, I don't see why it's annoying ;-) It's a mere representation of reality (same for GPL). -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

yeah, gota LOVE the FISHEYE! pez DStamper <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I've always felt that way about papy sims. Especially when Heat came out, > those guys really captured the speed sensation. They've got an IRL / CART > patch out for HEAT that really makes you feel the speed, it takes a long > time for me to get used to N4 again after playing it. > > David Stamper > Diamond Star Racing > http://webpages.charter.net/dstamper > > "willem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > well..it finally arrived in europe...been driving it for the last > > couple of days...had the demo aswell... > > And still...the main annoyance for me is the complete lack of > > sensation of speed...and no i'm not gonna drive from the roof cam > > just to get that sensation. > > Compared to GPL it feels as if you're driving 20 mph instead of 150+. > > The N4 demo had the same..but i bought N4 anyways cause it does other > > things so well... > > It becomes even more obvious on a track like watkins glen...you brake > > hard for that first corner...you go thru it at what seems 10mph but > > it's actually 65.....urrggggh. > > I know...physics..awesome...other things..lovely...but i'd like to get > > a 'wow....rooooooocckkk n roooooollll' feeling when i go fast... > > > > Now papy....go do a CART sim...:) > > > > cheers, > > Willem > > > > > >

Something I've noticed about this is, when I leave the pits and check my mirror, anything behind me seems to go faster than anything coming towards me looking thru the windscreen. Like if I watch the pitcrew, it does seem like I'm really moving fast....or while I'm going down the back stretch at Dega, the road in the mirror is flying, while looking straight ahead doesn't really look that fast. I have heard drivers say that the sensation of speed is not really that great. This could be because of the size of the tracks, I don't know, but it's definitely a problem with the vast majority of racing games. Maybe it has something to do with the sizes of the cars, relative to the smallest size pixel used for texture. Like for example, if the road textures stayed the same size pixel-wise, but the size of all objects, grandstands, car bodies, width of road etc. was doubled, and then speed up all movement by 2, so that you'd have twice as many pixels of road texture moving toward you and then under you (if you get my meaning), but it would still take the same number of seconds to drive a lap, maybe it would feel like you're going twice as fast as you presently do. Christ, I don't know. Somebody do something. "willem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > well..it finally arrived in europe...been driving it for the last > couple of days...had the demo aswell... > And still...the main annoyance for me is the complete lack of > sensation of speed...and no i'm not gonna drive from the roof cam > just to get that sensation. > Compared to GPL it feels as if you're driving 20 mph instead of 150+. > The N4 demo had the same..but i bought N4 anyways cause it does other > things so well... > It becomes even more obvious on a track like watkins glen...you brake > hard for that first corner...you go thru it at what seems 10mph but > it's actually 65.....urrggggh. > I know...physics..awesome...other things..lovely...but i'd like to get > a 'wow....rooooooocckkk n roooooollll' feeling when i go fast... > > Now papy....go do a CART sim...:) > > cheers, > Willem > >

"Kevin Anderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kEwH6.32624$[email hidden]... > Is it possible that you don't feel the speed in the real cars either? Ihad > a motorcycle that at 55mph you would swear you were doing 10mph and 140mph > seemed like a nice cruising speed. Also I don't get a sense of how fast Iam > going when in a friend of mine's Corvette. Feels like we are crawling. A Corvette, you say ? Um, you were crawling !

Atlanta seems to have a great sense of speed to me? J. Janasov Incubus <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zDBH6.3575$[email hidden]... > Something I've noticed about this is, when I leave the pits and check my > mirror, anything behind me seems to go faster than anything coming towards > me looking thru the windscreen. Like if I watch the pitcrew, it does seem > like I'm really moving fast....or while I'm going down the back stretch at > Dega, the road in the mirror is flying, while looking straight aheaddoesn't

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> really look that fast. > > I have heard drivers say that the sensation of speed is not really that > great. This could be because of the size of the tracks, I don't know, but > it's definitely a problem with the vast majority of racing games. > > Maybe it has something to do with the sizes of the cars, relative to the > smallest size pixel used for texture. Like for example, if the road

textures > stayed the same size pixel-wise, but the size of all objects, grandstands, > car bodies, width of road etc. was doubled, and then speed up all movement > by 2, so that you'd have twice as many pixels of road texture movingtoward > you and then under you (if you get my meaning), but it would still takethe > same number of seconds to drive a lap, maybe it would feel like you'regoing

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> twice as fast as you presently do. > > Christ, I don't know. Somebody do something. > > "willem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > well..it finally arrived in europe...been driving it for the last > > couple of days...had the demo aswell... > > And still...the main annoyance for me is the complete lack of > > sensation of speed...and no i'm not gonna drive from the roof cam > > just to get that sensation. > > Compared to GPL it feels as if you're driving 20 mph instead of 150+. > > The N4 demo had the same..but i bought N4 anyways cause it does other > > things so well... > > It becomes even more obvious on a track like watkins glen...you brake > > hard for that first corner...you go thru it at what seems 10mph but > > it's actually 65.....urrggggh. > > I know...physics..awesome...other things..lovely...but i'd like to get > > a 'wow....rooooooocckkk n roooooollll' feeling when i go fast... > > > > Now papy....go do a CART sim...:) > > > > cheers, > > Willem > > > > > >

Look around the next time you are doing 100mph. If you watch the entire view out the front window, and not just the road, the whole scene changes verrry slowly. I think N4 is right on the money. -Phasor "willem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > well..it finally arrived in europe...been driving it for the last > couple of days...had the demo aswell... > And still...the main annoyance for me is the complete lack of > sensation of speed...and no i'm not gonna drive from the roof cam > just to get that sensation. > Compared to GPL it feels as if you're driving 20 mph instead of 150+. > The N4 demo had the same..but i bought N4 anyways cause it does other > things so well... > It becomes even more obvious on a track like watkins glen...you brake > hard for that first corner...you go thru it at what seems 10mph but > it's actually 65.....urrggggh. > I know...physics..awesome...other things..lovely...but i'd like to get > a 'wow....rooooooocckkk n roooooollll' feeling when i go fast... > > Now papy....go do a CART sim...:) > > cheers, > Willem > >

> A Corvette, you say ? Um, you were crawling ! > yeah, if it had been a Viper, he would have felt fast even when parked. :) dave (mopar) henrie

Phasor wrote: > Look around the next time you are doing 100mph. If you watch the entire > view out the front window, and not just the road, the whole scene changes > verrry slowly. I think N4 is right on the money. > That is because your perspective is considerably shortened. Ever notice how short those dashed lines on the highway look? But come to a stop (for a flat or something) and suddenly they look every bit the 6+ feet that they are... John DiFool

In article <0AAH6.166$[email hidden]>, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>>"willem" <[email hidden]> wrote >> And still...the main annoyance for me is the complete lack of >> sensation of speed... > > >Since it's a realistic sense of speed, I don't see why it's annoying ;-) >It's a mere representation of reality (same for GPL).

I don't get the sense of speed in GPL, either. The slow turns are a pain, because I can't tell if I'm going 20 or 60. Like the approaches to all the hairpin turns. It's KILLIN' me... :( Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +27.07...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Tue, 01 May 2001 10:45:22 GMT, willem <[email hidden]> wrote: >And still...the main annoyance for me is the complete lack of >sensation of speed...and no i'm not gonna drive from the roof cam >just to get that sensation.<snip> >cheers, >Willem Willem, I have exactly the same feeling about N4, good point. In my first laps on WG I was crashing at every corner. The first corner after the s/f for example, I felt like entering the corner really slow, untill I actually entered the corner and only then I noticed I was going way too fast. Still I can't judge speed properly in N4, I learned the braking points by remembering where to brake by looking at braking points at the side of the road. Ony just before the corner I can actually feel if I'm going too fast or too slow. Don't get me wrong, I -love- N4 now, signed up for a league allready and the last couple of days I did nothing but N4. But yesterday I played GPL again, a 9-lap race against the AI. It was a terrific race, and then again I realized the sheer sensation of speed in GPL. Especially after a couple of days playing N4 it was a WHOA!!! experience :) I also have the same lack of speed experience in Viper Racing and SCGT. It's weird, since most people don't seem to have this problem. I talked to a couple of guys about the speed problem in N4 after a WG race and they didn't understand what I was talking about. Maybe it's psychological... And it's not just about the speed of the cars. Even in F3 cars in GPL I have the sensation of speed, allthough these cars go much slower. PS if you select the hoodcam in N4 the sensation of speed gets much better, but like you I only want to drive in cockpit view. Hoodcams are for sissies :)) PS2: Make sure you get enough fps in N4. I noticed that with a bad fps the lack of speedsensation gets even worse. Andre

On Tue, 1 May 2001 07:21:56 -0400, "DStamper" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I've always felt that way about papy sims. Have you tried GPL? Because imho that sim gives absolutely the best sensation of speed.. Hmm.. while thinking about it, here's a list: Sims where I have a good sense of speed: - GPL (by far!) - NFS:PU - F1RC (allthough not the 'I'm in a bloody fast F1 car' feeling) Sims where I don't have it: - N4 - GP3 - F1CS - Viper Racing - SCGT Weird eh. I thought about this one many times but I can't put my finger on the cause of this.. Andre

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> Especially when Heat came out, >those guys really captured the speed sensation. They've got an IRL / CART >patch out for HEAT that really makes you feel the speed, it takes a long >time for me to get used to N4 again after playing it. > >David Stamper >Diamond Star Racing >http://webpages.charter.net/dstamper

Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote: > Sims where I don't have it: > - N4 > - GP3 > - F1CS > - Viper Racing I think one reason for the lack of sense of speed in Viper Racing are the circuits themselves - they were all incredibly wide, with not that much objects near the road. With the great car being modelled, and with the splendid physics model, that game could've really used some challenging real-world sports-car circuits... -- J. Sakari Salonen / [email hidden]

On Wed, 02 May 2001 08:00:25 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote:

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>Willem, I have exactly the same feeling about N4, good point. >In my first laps on WG I was crashing at every corner. The first >corner after the s/f for example, I felt like entering the corner >really slow, untill I actually entered the corner and only then I >noticed I was going way too fast. >Still I can't judge speed properly in N4, I learned the braking points >by remembering where to brake by looking at braking points at the side >of the road. Ony just before the corner I can actually feel if I'm >going too fast or too slow.

Same here...i know the brake points..and that's it... In GPL i know under braking way before i get to the actual corner that i'm either going to fast to make it thru that corner or to slow so i can ease of the brakes somewhat. In N4 i only know i'm going to fast when it's waaay to late...same if i brake to early...basically i know when i'm in the corner.

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>Don't get me wrong, I -love- N4 now, signed up for a league allready >and the last couple of days I did nothing but N4. >But yesterday I played GPL again, a 9-lap race against the AI. >It was a terrific race, and then again I realized the sheer sensation >of speed in GPL. Especially after a couple of days playing N4 it was a >WHOA!!! experience :) >I also have the same lack of speed experience in Viper Racing and >SCGT. It's weird, since most people don't seem to have this problem. >I talked to a couple of guys about the speed problem in N4 after a WG >race and they didn't understand what I was talking about. >Maybe it's psychological...

Yup..but as the other guy said viper racing has them extremmmmeeeely wide tracks... GP3 lacks a good sense of speed aswell...but the weird part is its just that...and that one doesn't give me trouble judging my speed correctly as N4 does. >And it's not just about the speed of the cars. Even in F3 cars in GPL >I have the sensation of speed, allthough these cars go much slower. > >PS if you select the hoodcam in N4 the sensation of speed gets much >better, but like you I only want to drive in cockpit view. >Hoodcams are for sissies :)) hehe...yeah..they are:) I hope papy can do something like an alternative cockpit view...with only the dash, maybe a bit wider FOV and the 'insides' of the car mostly removed..so you see more of the outside world which would probably have the same effect as racing from the hoodcam...better sense of speed. >PS2: Make sure you get enough fps in N4. I noticed that with a bad fps >the lack of speedsensation gets even worse. fps hovers around 30-33 most of the time...except when in a serious pile up >Andre Cheers, Willem Aalbers

>"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote > I don't get the sense of speed in GPL, either. The slow turns are a pain, > because I can't tell if I'm going 20 or 60. Like the approaches to allthe > hairpin turns. It's KILLIN' me... :( Well, it's just realistic sense of speed. About every other racing game on the market has an exaggerated sense of speed compared to reality, so gamers have kinda been brainwashed through the years with them. So when you have realism in that aspect of the game, it feels wrong, even if it's right. It's very hard to brake into your pitstall in Nascar Racing 4. I have difficulties finding the right spot to brake, because sometimes it feels like I'm almost stopped when I'm at 35mph. But when you're on the track at 170mph for half an hour and it's time to pit, you are disoriented. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> Well, it's just realistic sense of speed. About every other racing gameon > the market has an exaggerated sense of speed compared to reality, sogamers > have kinda been brainwashed through the years with them. So when you have > realism in that aspect of the game, it feels wrong, even if it's right. > > It's very hard to brake into your pitstall in Nascar Racing 4. I have > difficulties finding the right spot to brake, because sometimes it feels > like I'm almost stopped when I'm at 35mph. But when you're on the trackat > 170mph for half an hour and it's time to pit, you are disoriented. I agree 100%. Happens in real life too. Coming off the highway at 120kph, I slow to what feels like half speed. Turns out I'm still doing 80 on a 40kph exit ramp and almost lose it on the first tight corner... I think the real Cup guys have problems with that too, and most of them slide into the pit on full brake lock - because they are usually getting tires changed, it doesn't matter. I do it too, I think it's much easier than trying to slow down properly. -Phasor