would it be possible to make a Rally or off-road sim using Nascar 4 or Nascar Heat ?

I love off road sims, but most of them are not nearly as accurate in modeling the reality of the unique and harsh forces that off-road courses can exert on a car, as asphalt racing sims like N4 GPL are at mimicing that type of racing. I wonder if N4 or Nascar Heat physics models could do more than a rudimentary job of simulating Rally or off road truck racing ? I remember reading some post about a Dirt Heat patch, has anyone tried it, and what do you think of it ?

"Olly Greenfield" <[email hidden]> wrote > I wonder if N4 or Nascar Heat physics models could do more > than a rudimentary job of simulating Rally or off road truck racing ? Since Nascar Racing 4 is using the jewel from Papyrus (their new game engine, also used in GPL), it can be modeled for about every kind of exiting motorsports. But Nascar Racing 4 is not really an open-source sim. Like always, Papyrus gives us the chance to modify *everything* in the simulation except the core engine. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

On Wed, 16 May 2001 12:50:12 GMT, "Olly Greenfield" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I love off road sims, but most of them are not nearly as accurate in >modeling the reality of the unique and harsh forces that off-road courses >can exert on a car, Even Mobil1 RC with tweaked physics and damage modelling? -- eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

> Since Nascar Racing 4 is using the jewel from Papyrus (their new game > engine, also used in GPL), it can be modeled for about every kind ofexiting > motorsports. But Nascar Racing 4 is not really an open-source sim. Like > always, Papyrus gives us the chance to modify *everything* in thesimulation > except the core engine. AFAIK, The GPL/N4 physics model doesn't model any tiny details in the road surface (which is an essential part of a rally sim). Therefore it wouldn't be any good. -- Mika Takala [email hidden] Please remove the invalid parts from my email address if replying by email.

>"Mika Takala" <[email hidden]> wrote > AFAIK, The GPL/N4 physics model doesn't model any tiny details in the road > surface (which is an essential part of a rally sim). Therefore it wouldn't > be any good. Unless you are talking about high-end commercial computer simulations, there is no game engine that does that. Rally simulations can be done, they were done in the past and the Papyrus game engine is quite versatile enough to do ANY type of motorsport in a way that no other company has ever done. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Mika Takala" <[email hidden]> wrote > AFAIK, The GPL/N4 physics model doesn't model any tiny details in the road > surface (which is an essential part of a rally sim). Therefore it wouldn't > be any good. Unless you are talking about high-end commercial computer simulations, there is no game engine that does that. Rally simulations can be done, they were done in the past and the Papyrus game engine is quite versatile enough to do ANY type of motorsport in a way that no other company has ever done. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

I think he's comparing the high and low frequency bumps that are present in some sims...(SCGT, F1CS2k ) and not others (Nx GPL) The Papyrus tracks seem to do elevation changes well, but not individual bumps in the track. Take the SCGT Bathurst track for example: Coming down off the top of the mountain, you are faced with a very bumpy road...in fact you have to alter your line to avoid some of the worst bumps...If Bathurst was ever made for GPL/Nx it would get the twists and turns right, and the up and down sensation, but the track would be otherwise smooth as a baby's buttinski. dave henrie "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qPHM6.11500$[email hidden]... > >"Mika Takala" <[email hidden]> wrote > > AFAIK, The GPL/N4 physics model doesn't model any tiny details in theroad > > surface (which is an essential part of a rally sim). Therefore itwouldn't > > be any good. > > > Unless you are talking about high-end commercial computer simulations,there > is no game engine that does that. Rally simulations can be done, theywere > done in the past and the Papyrus game engine is quite versatile enough todo

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> ANY type of motorsport in a way that no other company has ever done. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > >

>"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote > I think he's comparing the high and low frequency bumps that are present > in some sims...(SCGT, F1CS2k ) and not others (Nx GPL) Sorry, but either game engine does NOT model correctly (or at all) high frequency bumps. > Take the SCGT Bathurst track for example: Coming down off the top of the > mountain, you are faced with a very bumpy road... There are equal bumps, they are just now shown the same on the screen. There is a difference between the game engine modeling the bumps and the graphic engine showing the effect. To say that GPL has smooth tracks is quite false. They are very, VERY bumpy. Watch the suspension movements. It's just not presented when driving like other game engines. Anyway to think that Papyrus couldn't do a Rally sim only because of such minimal possible problem is quite naive. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> Anyway to think that Papyrus couldn't do a Rally sim only because of such > minimal possible problem is quite naive. Well, I think Papyrus won't go into making a rally sim, but who knows - they did SODA Offroad Racing a couple of years ago. I haven't had a chance to try it, though, so I cannot say if it is good or not. GPL track editors have tried to make the altitudes so that individual bumps are modelled, but the framerate went way down. To make a rally sim as good as GPL was in it's class, we would need much more detailed special stages. I think the most admirable part of a rally drivers work is to place the car very precisely on the road avoiding any big rocks and holes on the road (and to do that continuously 3 days :)). I think we already have rally sims that are capable of modelling just a long stage and the road with a decent physics modelling (imagine maybe Rallys Masters' physics with Rally Championship 2000's stages). The best part is still missing, and I think we'll need more horsepower in our computers to make it happen. The GPL engine (adjusted so that it would be good for rallying) would be a nice and welcome addition - but not in any means mandatory. -- Mika Takala [email hidden] Please remove the invalid parts from my email address if replying by email.

Olly Greenfield <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> I love off road sims, but most of them are not nearly as accurate in > modeling the reality of the unique and harsh forces that off-road courses > can exert on a car, as asphalt racing sims like N4 GPL are at mimicing that > type of racing. I wonder if N4 or Nascar Heat physics models could do more > than a rudimentary job of simulating Rally or off road truck racing ? I > remember reading some post about a Dirt Heat patch, has anyone tried it, and > what do you think of it ?

I think making as a convincing model (as convincing as that of GPL and N4 cars on asphalt) of cars on so many different types of irregular surfaces, as one has in rallies, would be an extremely difficult task. Driving the Nordschleife in GPL has convinced me, though, that even if someone made a truly hard-core simulation of asphalt rallies only, it'd be hugely fun. And very much possible to do. -- J. Sakari Salonen / [email hidden]

No matter how open for tweaks a VW Beetle is, you still can't make a Porsche out of it. -Gregor Jagg wrote: > > Even Mobil1 RC with tweaked physics and damage modelling? > -- > eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format > http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

I agree with the comments about Mobil 1 RC, excellent game! Does anyone have a decent .cfg file for it? Barry Jagg <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 16 May 2001 12:50:12 GMT, "Olly Greenfield" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I love off road sims, but most of them are not nearly as accurate in > >modeling the reality of the unique and harsh forces that off-road courses > >can exert on a car, > > Even Mobil1 RC with tweaked physics and damage modelling? > -- > eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format > http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

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>Well, I think Papyrus won't go into making a rally sim, but who knows - they >did SODA Offroad Racing a couple of years ago. I haven't had a chance to try >it, though, so I cannot say if it is good or not. > >GPL track editors have tried to make the altitudes so that individual bumps >are modelled, but the framerate went way down. To make a rally sim as good >as GPL was in it's class, we would need much more detailed special stages. I >think the most admirable part of a rally drivers work is to place the car >very precisely on the road avoiding any big rocks and holes on the road (and >to do that continuously 3 days :)). > >I think we already have rally sims that are capable of modelling just a long >stage and the road with a decent physics modelling (imagine maybe Rallys >Masters' physics with Rally Championship 2000's stages). The best part is >still missing, and I think we'll need more horsepower in our computers to >make it happen. The GPL engine (adjusted so that it would be good for >rallying) would be a nice and welcome addition - but not in any means >mandatory.

I think it's quite a bit easier to do than people so far in this thread suspect. My vehicle physics engine allows a programmer to place a "bump map" onto the track. It's really easy to do and allows any size random bumps to be used, as well as placing potholes, ridges, etc., where ever you want. It reproduces the effect everyone is talking about here rather well IMO. It'd definately be an easy addition for Papy or anyone else to include in an existing engine, and doesn't eat much CPU power at all. It's not even noticable in mine :-) Todd Wasson --- Performance Simulations Drag Racing and Top Speed Prediction Software http://PerformanceSimulations.Com

On Thu, 17 May 2001 10:14:36 +0100, "Barry Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I agree with the comments about Mobil 1 RC, excellent game! > >Does anyone have a decent .cfg file for it? > >Barry Try this one attached to my post. I didn't make it though, someone else gave it to me. I lowered the damage modelling so you may want to up it to your liking. -- eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

On Thu, 17 May 2001 11:14:31 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote: >No matter how open for tweaks a VW Beetle is, you still can't make a >Porsche out of it. > >-Gregor > Well, I've driven all of the Rally Sims and I considrer Mobil1 to be the best there is. -- eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

Isn't it strange that the Rally sim discussions here and USAF ones at the other n.g. usually emerge at about the same time ;)? -Gregor Jagg wrote: > > Well, I've driven all of the Rally Sims and I considrer Mobil1 to be > the best there is. >

>"Mika Takala" <[email hidden]> wrote > Well, I think Papyrus won't go into making a rally sim, but who knows -they > did SODA Offroad Racing a couple of years ago. I haven't had a chance totry > it, though, so I cannot say if it is good or not. SODA was the precursor to the next generation of racing simulators. It is still today an excellent (even if graphically outdated) simulation. Anybody who see it in a bargain bin should buy it :) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

In article <[email hidden]>, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> writes: > No matter how open for tweaks a VW Beetle is, you still can't make a > Porsche out of it. A VW Beetle (at least the original) *is* a Porsche. At least, it was designed by a man of that name. *The* man of that name... :-) Marc

On Thu, 17 May 2001 16:08:46 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote: >Isn't it strange that the Rally sim discussions here and USAF ones at >the other n.g. usually emerge at about the same time ;)? > >-Gregor Yea, and the SDOE ones too. :-) -- eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

U sure Marc? I thought Hitler was the one & only instrumental force behind the VW from day 1? But, As Usual, I could be wrong? Also I'm sorry to bring this person's name up all! phew. One Crazy Dude "Marc Fraioli" wrote: | A VW Beetle (at least the original) *is* a Porsche. At least, it was | designed by a man of that name. *The* man of that name... | :-) | Marc

Thom j. wrote in message ... >U sure Marc? I thought Hitler was the one & only instrumental force >behind the VW from day 1? But, As Usual, I could be wrong? Also >I'm sorry to bring this person's name up all! phew. One Crazy Dude > Porsche did design the Beetle ( his company did anyway ). Hitler wanted a cheap car and Porsche designed it. Matt

In article <p3YM6.1057$[email hidden]>, "Thom j." <[email hidden]> writes:

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>U sure Marc? I thought Hitler was the one & only instrumental force >behind the VW from day 1? But, As Usual, I could be wrong? Also >I'm sorry to bring this person's name up all! phew. One Crazy Dude > >"Marc Fraioli" wrote: >| A VW Beetle (at least the original) *is* a Porsche. At least, it was >| designed by a man of that name. *The* man of that name... >| :-) >| Marc

While Hitler approved of and supported the the VW development it was designed by Dr. Porsche. In fact the earky Porsche sports car shared many parts, in fact the engine mounts were the same so you could put a Porsche engine in a VW. Robert

Thanx Matt!! I knew the "H" was in there somewhere.. Just wasnt sure who, what, where or when? Cheers Thom_j. "Matt Smith" wrote: | Porsche did design the Beetle ( his company did anyway ). Hitler wanted a | cheap car and Porsche designed it. | | Matt