N4 is just too hard

You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect other people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It will never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 online code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. Unless you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just not talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something we'll have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible. All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a short clip of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't say this race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segment was something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) It can work. Tom

You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect other people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It will never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 online code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. Unless you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just not talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something we'll have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible. All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a short clip of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't say this race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segment was something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) It can work. Tom

You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect other people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It will never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 online code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. Unless you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just not talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something we'll have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible. All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a short clip of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't say this race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segment was something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) It can work. Tom

Sorry if this posted more than once. "Tom Oliver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9emna9$clg$[email hidden]...

You can address all those reasons with just one word---------------WRONG. As your replay shows, this game can be very very good with good drivers. It looked like I was watching a race on TV. Vintook "Tom Oliver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9emn07$bu4$[email hidden]...

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> You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect other > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It will > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 online > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. Unless > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just not > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something we'll > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible. > > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a short

clip > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't saythis

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> race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segment was > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) > > It can work. > > Tom > > > > > >

That was his thesis too. He's just a bad propagandist :) Vintook wrote: > You can address all those reasons with just one word---------------WRONG. > > As your replay shows, this game can be very very good with good drivers. It > looked like I was watching a race on TV.

My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact that Papyrus won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in their quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable. All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. That means having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheel movement. 32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code. The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are alike. We NEED a controller trim-tab. Other than that, it's fine. Except for the boneheads online, of course. -Larry "Tom Oliver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9emn07$bu4$[email hidden]...

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> You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect other > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It will > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 online > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. Unless > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just not > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something we'll > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible. > > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a short

clip > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't saythis

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> race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segment was > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) > > It can work. > > Tom > > > > > >

The pull to the left is realistic and after a while you will just get used to it. I don't even notice it anymore unless I join an arcade race (then I keep smacking the wall cause I'm so used to the pull and it isn't there in arcade). I don't see any problems with the controller screen or the range of motion. It's exactly like GPL. If you think it should act more like N3 then you are out of luck. N4 is 180 degrees out from N3. The superspeedways drive more correctly now then they ever did in N3. Mess with your car setup, you can do quite a bit to make it feel better and a few adjustments will help your controller feel better too. Vintook "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8wHP6.68138$[email hidden]... > My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact thatPapyrus

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> won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in their > quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable. > > All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. That means > having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive > correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheel movement. > 32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code. > > The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are alike. We > NEED a controller trim-tab. > > Other than that, it's fine. > > Except for the boneheads online, of course. > > -Larry > > "Tom Oliver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9emn07$bu4$[email hidden]... > > You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect

other > > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It will > > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4online > > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. Unless > > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just not > > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just somethingwe'll

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> > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible. > > > > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a short > clip > > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't say > this > > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segment

was

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> > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had > > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. > > > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) > > > > It can work. > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Vintook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TfNP6.23500$[email hidden]... > The pull to the left is realistic and after a while you will just get used > to it. I don't even notice it anymore unless I join an arcade race (then I > keep smacking the wall cause I'm so used to the pull and it isn't there in > arcade). I don't see any problems with the controller screen or the rangeof > motion. It's exactly like GPL. If you think it should act more like N3then > you are out of luck. N4 is 180 degrees out from N3. The superspeedwaysdrive > more correctly now then they ever did in N3. Mess with your car setup, you > can do quite a bit to make it feel better and a few adjustments will help > your controller feel better too. > > Vintook > This in a quote from Eddie Cheever about open wheel cars, but I believe it applies to stock cars as well. "Cars are set up so that if you were to let go of the steering wheel on the straightaway, they would turn left by themselves. You're actually holding the car on the straightaway and then releasing it at the right moment to turn into a corner." http://espn.go.com/rpm/irl/2001/0524/1204330.html

There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull I can accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out in the setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watched some of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel turned to the right while going down the straightaway. "Vintook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TfNP6.23500$[email hidden]... > The pull to the left is realistic and after a while you will just get used > to it. I don't even notice it anymore unless I join an arcade race (then I > keep smacking the wall cause I'm so used to the pull and it isn't there in > arcade). I don't see any problems with the controller screen or the rangeof > motion. It's exactly like GPL. If you think it should act more like N3then > you are out of luck. N4 is 180 degrees out from N3. The superspeedwaysdrive

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> more correctly now then they ever did in N3. Mess with your car setup, you > can do quite a bit to make it feel better and a few adjustments will help > your controller feel better too. > > Vintook > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8wHP6.68138$[email hidden]... > > My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact that > Papyrus > > won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in

their > > quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable. > > > > All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. Thatmeans > > having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive > > correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheelmovement. > > 32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code. > > > > The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are alike.We

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> > NEED a controller trim-tab. > > > > Other than that, it's fine. > > > > Except for the boneheads online, of course. > > > > -Larry > > > > "Tom Oliver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:9emn07$bu4$[email hidden]... > > > You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect > other > > > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It

will > > > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 > online > > > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. Unless > > > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're justnot > > > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something > we'll > > > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible. > > > > > > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is ashort

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> > clip > > > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't say > > this > > > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segment > was > > > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had > > > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. > > > > > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) > > > > > > It can work. > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

In article <8oYP6.73598$[email hidden]>, "racefan" <[email hidden]> writes: >There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull I can >accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out in the >setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watched some >of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel >turned to the right while going down the straightaway. Haven't we gone through all this already? Eldred - deja vu all over again... -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

yes we have covered this...and if you also watch the incar footage you will see the wheel is NOT centered on the steering spline like a family car is..each driver offsets the wheel to compensate for the right pull effect. so when they are holding the wheel straight, it is actually pulling the tires to the right dave henrie "racefan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8oYP6.73598$[email hidden]... > There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull Ican > accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out inthe > setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watchedsome

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> of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel > turned to the right while going down the straightaway. > > > "Vintook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:TfNP6.23500$[email hidden]... > > The pull to the left is realistic and after a while you will just get

used > > to it. I don't even notice it anymore unless I join an arcade race (thenI > > keep smacking the wall cause I'm so used to the pull and it isn't therein > > arcade). I don't see any problems with the controller screen or therange > of > > motion. It's exactly like GPL. If you think it should act more like N3 > then > > you are out of luck. N4 is 180 degrees out from N3. The superspeedways > drive > > more correctly now then they ever did in N3. Mess with your car setup,you > > can do quite a bit to make it feel better and a few adjustments willhelp

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> > your controller feel better too. > > > > Vintook > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:8wHP6.68138$[email hidden]... > > > My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact that > > Papyrus > > > won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in > their > > > quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable. > > > > > > All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. That > means > > > having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive > > > correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheel > movement. > > > 32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code. > > > > > > The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are alike. > We > > > NEED a controller trim-tab. > > > > > > Other than that, it's fine. > > > > > > Except for the boneheads online, of course. > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > "Tom Oliver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:9emn07$bu4$[email hidden]... > > > > You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect > > other > > > > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It > will > > > > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 > > online > > > > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work.

Unless

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> > > > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just > not > > > > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something > > we'll > > > > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible. > > > > > > > > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a > short > > > clip > > > > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't

say > > > this > > > > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lapsegment > > was > > > > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I'vehad

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> > > > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. > > > > > > > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) > > > > > > > > It can work. > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I'm not saying the pull to the left shouldn't be there and yes the claims of this being just like a real cup car are nothing new. I just don't think it's as excessive as this "simulation" has portrayed it. Someday I'll sign myself up for one of those 10 laps of Michigan for $1000 or whatever it is and find out for myself. "racefan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8oYP6.73598$[email hidden]... > There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull Ican > accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out inthe > setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watchedsome

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> of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel > turned to the right while going down the straightaway. > > > "Vintook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:TfNP6.23500$[email hidden]... > > The pull to the left is realistic and after a while you will just get

used > > to it. I don't even notice it anymore unless I join an arcade race (thenI > > keep smacking the wall cause I'm so used to the pull and it isn't therein > > arcade). I don't see any problems with the controller screen or therange > of > > motion. It's exactly like GPL. If you think it should act more like N3 > then > > you are out of luck. N4 is 180 degrees out from N3. The superspeedways > drive > > more correctly now then they ever did in N3. Mess with your car setup,you > > can do quite a bit to make it feel better and a few adjustments willhelp

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> > your controller feel better too. > > > > Vintook > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:8wHP6.68138$[email hidden]... > > > My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact that > > Papyrus > > > won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in > their > > > quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable. > > > > > > All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. That > means > > > having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive > > > correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheel > movement. > > > 32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code. > > > > > > The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are alike. > We > > > NEED a controller trim-tab. > > > > > > Other than that, it's fine. > > > > > > Except for the boneheads online, of course. > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > "Tom Oliver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:9emn07$bu4$[email hidden]... > > > > You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect > > other > > > > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It > will > > > > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 > > online > > > > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work.

Unless

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> > > > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just > not > > > > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something > > we'll > > > > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible. > > > > > > > > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a > short > > > clip > > > > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't

say > > > this > > > > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lapsegment > > was > > > > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I'vehad

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> > > > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. > > > > > > > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) > > > > > > > > It can work. > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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>This in a quote from Eddie Cheever about open wheel cars, but I believe it >applies to stock cars as well. > >"Cars are set up so that if you were to let go of the steering wheel on the >straightaway, they would turn left by themselves. You're actually holding >the car on the straightaway and then releasing it at the right moment to >turn into a corner."

I can't figure out how to get the cars I race with to have this realistic pull to the left feature. Any ideas? -pw

>"racefan" <[email hidden]> wrote > There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull Ican > accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out inthe > setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watchedsome > of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel > turned to the right while going down the straightaway. That smell of D�j� Vu ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Doubt you'll see it there. I'm hardly and expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night, and I think those setups are pretty tame compared what you would see for "real". I'm sure they got the camber/caster really toned down. Tom "racefan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5u%P6.74390$[email hidden]... > I'm not saying the pull to the left shouldn't be there and yes the claimsof > this being just like a real cup car are nothing new. I just don't think > it's as excessive as this "simulation" has portrayed it. Someday I'llsign

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> myself up for one of those 10 laps of Michigan for $1000 or whatever it is > and find out for myself. > > > "racefan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8oYP6.73598$[email hidden]... > > There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull I > can > > accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out in > the > > setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watched > some > > of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel > > turned to the right while going down the straightaway. > > > > > > "Vintook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:TfNP6.23500$[email hidden]... > > > The pull to the left is realistic and after a while you will just get > used > > > to it. I don't even notice it anymore unless I join an arcade race

(then > I > > > keep smacking the wall cause I'm so used to the pull and it isn'tthere

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> in > > > arcade). I don't see any problems with the controller screen or the > range > > of > > > motion. It's exactly like GPL. If you think it should act more like N3 > > then > > > you are out of luck. N4 is 180 degrees out from N3. The superspeedways > > drive > > > more correctly now then they ever did in N3. Mess with your car setup, > you > > > can do quite a bit to make it feel better and a few adjustments will > help > > > your controller feel better too. > > > > > > Vintook > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:8wHP6.68138$[email hidden]... > > > > My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact that > > > Papyrus > > > > won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in > > their > > > > quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable. > > > > > > > > All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. That > > means > > > > having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive > > > > correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheel > > movement. > > > > 32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code. > > > > > > > > The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are

alike.

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> > We > > > > NEED a controller trim-tab. > > > > > > > > Other than that, it's fine. > > > > > > > > Except for the boneheads online, of course. > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > "Tom Oliver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:9emn07$bu4$[email hidden]... > > > > > You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't

respect

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> > > other > > > > > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It > > will > > > > > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 > > > online > > > > > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. > Unless > > > > > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're

just > > not > > > > > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are justsomething

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> > > we'll > > > > > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible. > > > > > > > > > > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a > > short > > > > clip > > > > > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't > say > > > > this > > > > > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap > segment > > > was > > > > > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've > had > > > > > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) > > > > > > > > > > It can work. > > > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Only time i notice the pull anymore is when shifting on restarts near the wall. :) Charlie ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rR%P6.1538$[email hidden]...

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> >"racefan" <[email hidden]> wrote > > There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull I > can > > accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out in > the > > setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watched > some > > of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel > > turned to the right while going down the straightaway. > > > That smell of D�j� Vu ;-) > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > >

My wheel *never* pulls with my TM FFB wheel.. Odd?? it is offset to the right by about 5-8degress but thats about it... hmm? Better get an FFB wheel if its as bad as many write in this thread dont ya think?

I drive a Late Model stock and a friend of mine drove a few Busch races and runs Late Models too - it pulls to the left. "racefan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8oYP6.73598$[email hidden]... > There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull Ican > accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out inthe > setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watchedsome

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> of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel > turned to the right while going down the straightaway. > > > "Vintook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:TfNP6.23500$[email hidden]... > > The pull to the left is realistic and after a while you will just get

used > > to it. I don't even notice it anymore unless I join an arcade race (thenI > > keep smacking the wall cause I'm so used to the pull and it isn't therein > > arcade). I don't see any problems with the controller screen or therange > of > > motion. It's exactly like GPL. If you think it should act more like N3 > then > > you are out of luck. N4 is 180 degrees out from N3. The superspeedways > drive > > more correctly now then they ever did in N3. Mess with your car setup,you > > can do quite a bit to make it feel better and a few adjustments willhelp

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> > your controller feel better too. > > > > Vintook > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:8wHP6.68138$[email hidden]... > > > My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact that > > Papyrus > > > won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in > their > > > quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable. > > > > > > All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. That > means > > > having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive > > > correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheel > movement. > > > 32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code. > > > > > > The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are alike. > We > > > NEED a controller trim-tab. > > > > > > Other than that, it's fine. > > > > > > Except for the boneheads online, of course. > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > "Tom Oliver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:9emn07$bu4$[email hidden]... > > > > You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect > > other > > > > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It > will > > > > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 > > online > > > > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work.

Unless

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> > > > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just > not > > > > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something > > we'll > > > > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible. > > > > > > > > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a > short > > > clip > > > > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't

say > > > this > > > > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lapsegment > > was > > > > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I'vehad

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> > > > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. > > > > > > > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) > > > > > > > > It can work. > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

What do you mean? "the cars you race with" is that the car you are driving or the AI cars you are racing with on the track? If you are not 'feeling' the pull then you may have done a few things. First check that you are NOT racing in ARCADE mode. Switch it off. 2nd. check your setup, if you are using the EASY/SLOW setups, then the caster settings remove most of the pull. So choose the fast or intermediate settups to feel the pull. and finally...you are using N4 right? dave henrie "pw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9eq0vo$mof$[email hidden]... > > >This in a quote from Eddie Cheever about open wheel cars, but I believeit > >applies to stock cars as well. > > > >"Cars are set up so that if you were to let go of the steering wheel onthe

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> >straightaway, they would turn left by themselves. You're actually holding > >the car on the straightaway and then releasing it at the right moment to > >turn into a corner." > > > I can't figure out how to get the cars I race with to have this > realistic pull to the left feature. Any ideas? > > -pw

The only reason that a race car pulls to the left by itself on a straight is because of caster stagger

and the banking of the track and the weight of the car being left side loaded and...there's probably a few more. dave henrie "MitchD1411" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The only reason that a race car pulls to the left by itself on a straightis > because of caster stagger

Vintook. Trust me, I know this. I understand the realism part. Everyone keeps ignoring the simple fact that not all controllers are alike, and some need further adjustments to make the game enjoyable. -Larry "Vintook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TfNP6.23500$[email hidden]... > The pull to the left is realistic and after a while you will just get used > to it. I don't even notice it anymore unless I join an arcade race (then I > keep smacking the wall cause I'm so used to the pull and it isn't there in > arcade). I don't see any problems with the controller screen or the rangeof > motion. It's exactly like GPL. If you think it should act more like N3then > you are out of luck. N4 is 180 degrees out from N3. The superspeedwaysdrive

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> more correctly now then they ever did in N3. Mess with your car setup, you > can do quite a bit to make it feel better and a few adjustments will help > your controller feel better too. > > Vintook > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8wHP6.68138$[email hidden]... > > My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact that > Papyrus > > won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in

their > > quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable. > > > > All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. Thatmeans > > having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive > > correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheelmovement. > > 32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code. > > > > The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are alike.We

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> > NEED a controller trim-tab. > > > > Other than that, it's fine. > > > > Except for the boneheads online, of course. > > > > -Larry > > > > "Tom Oliver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:9emn07$bu4$[email hidden]... > > > You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect > other > > > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It

will > > > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 > online > > > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. Unless > > > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're justnot > > > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something > we'll > > > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible. > > > > > > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is ashort

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> > clip > > > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't say > > this > > > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segment > was > > > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had > > > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. > > > > > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) > > > > > > It can work. > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

IMHO, we can keep going over it until Papy listens to those of us with CONTROLLER problems. I am trying to be very careful and keep the discussion on the CONTROLLER and away from the 'realism' of the game. We've all been down that road 1000 times. The Controller code needs work. Period. -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <8oYP6.73598$[email hidden]>, "racefan" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull Ican > >accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out inthe > >setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watchedsome

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> >of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel > >turned to the right while going down the straightaway. > > Haven't we gone through all this already? > > Eldred - deja vu all over again... > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

The people most affected by the problem are: 1. Those without FF wheels. 2. Those with FF wheels, with FF turned off. IMHO, it's simply not realistic to tell people to "Get Another Wheel" as an answer to this. Papy CAN fix this. The NH folks understood the problem, and fixed it for us in the first patch. Why Papy can't do the same, I don't understand. -Larry "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IF6Q6.8960$[email hidden]... > My wheel *never* pulls with my TM FFB wheel.. Odd?? it is offset > to the right by about 5-8degress but thats about it... hmm? Better get > an FFB wheel if its as bad as many write in this thread dont ya think? > > >

I don't find the pull to be a problem, I have used a MSFF wheel with and without FF switched on and I'm currently using a MSPP wheel that doesn't have FF. I really don't see what the problem is. Ian P <email invalid due to spammers> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2HvQ6.86909$[email hidden]... > The people most affected by the problem are: > > 1. Those without FF wheels. > 2. Those with FF wheels, with FF turned off. > > IMHO, it's simply not realistic to tell people to "Get Another Wheel" asan > answer to this. > > Papy CAN fix this. The NH folks understood the problem, and fixed it forus

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> in the first patch. Why Papy can't do the same, I don't understand. > > -Larry > > "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:IF6Q6.8960$[email hidden]... > > My wheel *never* pulls with my TM FFB wheel.. Odd?? it is offset > > to the right by about 5-8degress but thats about it... hmm? Better get > > an FFB wheel if its as bad as many write in this thread dont ya think?

In article <8FvQ6.86886$[email hidden]>, "Larry" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>IMHO, we can keep going over it until Papy listens to those of us with >CONTROLLER problems. > >I am trying to be very careful and keep the discussion on the CONTROLLER and >away from the 'realism' of the game. We've all been down that road 1000 >times. > >The Controller code needs work. Period. > >-Larry > >"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> In article <8oYP6.73598$[email hidden]>, "racefan" >> <[email hidden]> writes: >> >> >There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull I >can >> >accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out in >the >> >setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watched >some >> >of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel >> >turned to the right while going down the straightaway. >> >> Haven't we gone through all this already? >> >> Eldred - deja vu all over again...

You didn't mention controller issues in your original message(the message I replied to). What kind of controller do you have? I have a TSW2mod, no FF. I haven't raced online, so I can't comment on the effects on close racing. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

That's a good point. I never really thought about the fact that everyone's controller is different. Some may be saying that it isn't a problem because it may not actually be affecting them as much as others. I also think the problem is worse because my wheel (LWM no FF) automatically springs back to centre. The more I turn right, the more force it requires. That's not the way it's going to feel in a "real cup car". I'm not sure if other wheels are different or maybe the FF wheels aren't affected as much. I'm in no way saying the pull should be removed. I just don't think this issue should be dropped because everyone is saying that's the way it's supposed to be. This is a great sim and Papy has done some awesome work with this version. "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jDvQ6.86863$[email hidden]... > Vintook. > > Trust me, I know this. I understand the realism part. > > Everyone keeps ignoring the simple fact that not all controllers arealike,

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> and some need further adjustments to make the game enjoyable. > > -Larry > > "Vintook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:TfNP6.23500$[email hidden]... > > The pull to the left is realistic and after a while you will just get

used > > to it. I don't even notice it anymore unless I join an arcade race (thenI > > keep smacking the wall cause I'm so used to the pull and it isn't therein > > arcade). I don't see any problems with the controller screen or therange > of > > motion. It's exactly like GPL. If you think it should act more like N3 > then > > you are out of luck. N4 is 180 degrees out from N3. The superspeedways > drive > > more correctly now then they ever did in N3. Mess with your car setup,you > > can do quite a bit to make it feel better and a few adjustments willhelp

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> > your controller feel better too. > > > > Vintook > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:8wHP6.68138$[email hidden]... > > > My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact that > > Papyrus > > > won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in > their > > > quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable. > > > > > > All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. That > means > > > having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive > > > correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheel > movement. > > > 32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code. > > > > > > The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are alike. > We > > > NEED a controller trim-tab. > > > > > > Other than that, it's fine. > > > > > > Except for the boneheads online, of course. > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > "Tom Oliver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:9emn07$bu4$[email hidden]... > > > > You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect > > other > > > > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It > will > > > > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 > > online > > > > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work.

Unless

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> > > > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just > not > > > > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something > > we'll > > > > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible. > > > > > > > > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a > short > > > clip > > > > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't

say > > > this > > > > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lapsegment > > was > > > > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I'vehad

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> > > > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. > > > > > > > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) > > > > > > > > It can work. > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I have an MS sidewinder NonFF, so it is a bit strange, and not realistic- that on the straights my hands won't be level on the wheel, as I'm basically turning right almost constantly (in the view ofthe controller). I can see a better situation being holding the wheel "straight" but with a FF pull to the left, to account for the way the wheel would behave in a real car (from the wedged chassis and the realigned wheel) but I don't have a FF wheel, so I'm turning right all the time, or I can use a PoS setup. It's bad enough the non FF wheel being sloppy to start with, this is just another problem for racing the ovals on N4. John "racefan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YWCQ6.84981$[email hidden]... > That's a good point. I never really thought about the fact thateveryone's > controller is different. Some may be saying that it isn't a problembecause > it may not actually be affecting them as much as others. I also think the > problem is worse because my wheel (LWM no FF) automatically springs backto > centre. The more I turn right, the more force it requires. That's notthe

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> way it's going to feel in a "real cup car". I'm not sure if other wheels > are different or maybe the FF wheels aren't affected as much. > > I'm in no way saying the pull should be removed. I just don't think this > issue should be dropped because everyone is saying that's the way it's > supposed to be. This is a great sim and Papy has done some awesome work > with this version.

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> What do you mean? "the cars you race with" is that the car you are >driving or the AI cars you are racing with on the track? If you are not >'feeling' the pull then you may have done a few things. First check that >you are NOT racing in ARCADE mode. Switch it off. 2nd. check your setup, >if you are using the EASY/SLOW setups, then the caster settings remove most >of the pull. So choose the fast or intermediate settups to feel the pull. >and finally...you are using N4 right? >dave henrie

Perhaps it's my wheel (MS SW FF - FF is turned on in N4) Dave. I tried a fast and an intermediate setup and don't think I have noticed any pull on straight-a-ways. Yes, I am in simulation mode. Thanks, -pw

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>"pw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:9eq0vo$mof$[email hidden]... >> >> >This in a quote from Eddie Cheever about open wheel cars, but I believe >it >> >applies to stock cars as well. >> > >> >"Cars are set up so that if you were to let go of the steering wheel on >the >> >straightaway, they would turn left by themselves. You're actually holding >> >the car on the straightaway and then releasing it at the right moment to >> >turn into a corner." >> >> >> I can't figure out how to get the cars I race with to have this >> realistic pull to the left feature. Any ideas? >> >> -pw >

You hit the magic point. Wheels that are forced back to center are _the_ biggest problem. This would be non FF wheels, and FF wheels run with FF turned off (and thus using the phony-spring). I would be glad to run with FF on, but the SuperSpeedways are darn near impossible to drive with the MSFFW, at least, because they are incredibly loose on center with FF turned on. Even at 32:1. If I could set the ration to, I'd say, 50:1 I'd probably be happy with it. Shame there isn't a way to hack the steering ratio in an INI file or something. Hey, Papy! How about adding a "Controller Ratio X2" option in the player.ini ? -Larry "racefan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YWCQ6.84981$[email hidden]... > That's a good point. I never really thought about the fact thateveryone's > controller is different. Some may be saying that it isn't a problembecause > it may not actually be affecting them as much as others. I also think the > problem is worse because my wheel (LWM no FF) automatically springs backto > centre. The more I turn right, the more force it requires. That's notthe

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> way it's going to feel in a "real cup car". I'm not sure if other wheels > are different or maybe the FF wheels aren't affected as much. > > I'm in no way saying the pull should be removed. I just don't think this > issue should be dropped because everyone is saying that's the way it's > supposed to be. This is a great sim and Papy has done some awesome work > with this version. > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:jDvQ6.86863$[email hidden]... > > Vintook. > > > > Trust me, I know this. I understand the realism part. > > > > Everyone keeps ignoring the simple fact that not all controllers are > alike, > > and some need further adjustments to make the game enjoyable. > > > > -Larry > > > > "Vintook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:TfNP6.23500$[email hidden]... > > > The pull to the left is realistic and after a while you will just get > used > > > to it. I don't even notice it anymore unless I join an arcade race

(then > I > > > keep smacking the wall cause I'm so used to the pull and it isn'tthere

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> in > > > arcade). I don't see any problems with the controller screen or the > range > > of > > > motion. It's exactly like GPL. If you think it should act more like N3 > > then > > > you are out of luck. N4 is 180 degrees out from N3. The superspeedways > > drive > > > more correctly now then they ever did in N3. Mess with your car setup, > you > > > can do quite a bit to make it feel better and a few adjustments will > help > > > your controller feel better too. > > > > > > Vintook > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:8wHP6.68138$[email hidden]... > > > > My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact that > > > Papyrus > > > > won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in > > their > > > > quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable. > > > > > > > > All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. That > > means > > > > having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive > > > > correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheel > > movement. > > > > 32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code. > > > > > > > > The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are

alike.

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> > We > > > > NEED a controller trim-tab. > > > > > > > > Other than that, it's fine. > > > > > > > > Except for the boneheads online, of course. > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > "Tom Oliver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:9emn07$bu4$[email hidden]... > > > > > You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't

respect

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> > > other > > > > > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It > > will > > > > > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 > > > online > > > > > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. > Unless > > > > > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're

just > > not > > > > > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are justsomething

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> > > we'll > > > > > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible. > > > > > > > > > > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a > > short > > > > clip > > > > > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't > say > > > > this > > > > > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap > segment > > > was > > > > > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've > had > > > > > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) > > > > > > > > > > It can work. > > > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I agree with this statement 100%. In my posts about this, I have tried to be VERY careful to keep the conversation limited to the CONTROLLER, and not the viability of the setups/pull. We should simply have the ability to match our controllers to the way the game is acting, because the game certainly is NOT taking into account the many varying types of controllers people use. -Larry "racefan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YWCQ6.84981$[email hidden]... > I'm in no way saying the pull should be removed. I just don't think this > issue should be dropped because everyone is saying that's the way it's > supposed to be. This is a great sim and Papy has done some awesome work > with this version.

Again, the pull is generally NOT a problem for those running FF wheels. It's non-FF wheels, with their centering springs, and FF wheels run with FF turned off (thus having a phony-spring) that are causing people heartburn. I don't run FF turned on because the damned thing is far too loose around center at the SS's and the car drifts all over the place. -Larry "pw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9f1v31$9u3$[email hidden]... > > What do you mean? "the cars you race with" is that the car you are > >driving or the AI cars you are racing with on the track? If you arenot > >'feeling' the pull then you may have done a few things. First check that > >you are NOT racing in ARCADE mode. Switch it off. 2nd. check yoursetup, > >if you are using the EASY/SLOW setups, then the caster settings removemost > >of the pull. So choose the fast or intermediate settups to feel thepull.

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> >and finally...you are using N4 right? > >dave henrie > > Perhaps it's my wheel (MS SW FF - FF is turned on in N4) Dave. I > tried a fast and an intermediate setup and don't think I have noticed > any pull on straight-a-ways. Yes, I am in simulation mode. > > Thanks, > > -pw > > > >"pw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:9eq0vo$mof$[email hidden]... > >> > >> >This in a quote from Eddie Cheever about open wheel cars, but I

believe > >it > >> >applies to stock cars as well. > >> > > >> >"Cars are set up so that if you were to let go of the steering wheelon > >the > >> >straightaway, they would turn left by themselves. You're actuallyholding > >> >the car on the straightaway and then releasing it at the right momentto

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> >> >turn into a corner." > >> > >> > >> I can't figure out how to get the cars I race with to have this > >> realistic pull to the left feature. Any ideas? > >> > >> -pw > > >

Have you tried using a program called dxtweek? It sounds like you have a deadzone on your wheel. This may remove it. dave henrie "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cCDR6.105658$[email hidden]... > I agree with this statement 100%. In my posts about this, I have tried to > be VERY careful to keep the conversation limited to the CONTROLLER, andnot

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> the viability of the setups/pull. > > We should simply have the ability to match our controllers to the way the > game is acting, because the game certainly is NOT taking into account the > many varying types of controllers people use. > > -Larry > > "racefan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:YWCQ6.84981$[email hidden]... > > I'm in no way saying the pull should be removed. I just don't think

this > > issue should be dropped because everyone is saying that's the way it's > > supposed to be. This is a great sim and Papy has done some awesome work > > with this version. > > >

The bank may make the car turn, but left side weight doesn't.

What about tire sizes...? Arent those different on a NASCAR... PAPA DOC

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> and the banking of the track and the weight of the car being left side >loaded and...there's probably a few more. >dave henrie >"MitchD1411" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> The only reason that a race car pulls to the left by itself on a straight >is >> because of caster stagger > >

Flanker Target GPL Crash Dummy www.papadoc.net FALCON 4 Benchmarks

I think the tire sizes *were* different but that was back when they ran bias ply tires. Radials all pretty much have the same diameter becuase of the steel or kevlar belts running around the circumference. What little adjustment of tire size they need these days they do with air pressure. Dav_Erb "Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> What about tire sizes...? Arent those different on a NASCAR... > > PAPA DOC > > > and the banking of the track and the weight of the car being left side > >loaded and...there's probably a few more. > >dave henrie > >"MitchD1411" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> The only reason that a race car pulls to the left by itself on a

straight

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> >is > >> because of caster stagger > > > > > > Flanker Target > GPL Crash Dummy > www.papadoc.net > FALCON 4 Benchmarks >

camber, toe out pw <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9eq0vo$mof$[email hidden]... > > >This in a quote from Eddie Cheever about open wheel cars, but I believeit > >applies to stock cars as well. > > > >"Cars are set up so that if you were to let go of the steering wheel onthe

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> >straightaway, they would turn left by themselves. You're actually holding > >the car on the straightaway and then releasing it at the right moment to > >turn into a corner." > > > I can't figure out how to get the cars I race with to have this > realistic pull to the left feature. Any ideas? > > -pw

Remeber camber does. The combination of a left biased weighted car, positive camber etc have a big affect on the way a stock car acts. They are basically set up to turn left on an oval and I guess Papy are just trying to re create that feel. "MitchD1411" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The bank may make the car turn, but left side weight doesn't.

Since our club, Stock Car Pro Racing Club, put in a pretty strict rule about causing 3 cautions in 3 races and your outta-here. We've benefitted with races that are in the 0 to 2 caution range :) This is racing not just loly-gagging. Check out our new Replay of the Week -- 3 wide at Tally without an accident. http://www.scprc.com It does work when you have racers in the right frame of mind. Jason. Tom Oliver wrote:

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> > Here is a short clip > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't say this > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segment was > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) > > It can work. > > Tom

-- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N4, GPL, Fun Run Sims) http://www.racersdomain.com - Race hosting. (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

I saw that. Awesome feature on your web site. You guys were really going at it. "Jason Monds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Since our club, Stock Car Pro Racing Club, put in a pretty strict rule > about causing 3 cautions in 3 races and your outta-here. We've > benefitted with races that are in the 0 to 2 caution range :) This is > racing not just loly-gagging. > > Check out our new Replay of the Week -- 3 wide at Tally without an > accident. > > http://www.scprc.com > > It does work when you have racers in the right frame of mind. > > Jason. > > Tom Oliver wrote: > > > > Here is a short clip > > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't say

this > > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segmentwas

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> > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had > > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group. > > > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg) > > > > It can work. > > > > Tom > > -- > Jason Monds > http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N4, GPL, Fun Run Sims) > http://www.racersdomain.com - Race hosting. > (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)