N4, Winning and Courtesy

Hi, I asked this question on Joshua's N4 newsgroup back when N4 was released. 100% of replies were a resounding 'Yes, you are completely within your rights'. I just want to check to see if anything has changed. Last night I was in a Talladega race with some pretty good drivers, good enough to go 3 wide into a turn and keep it together. After some great racing I grabbed the early lead by passing on the outside. As the leader of the race, I feel that I am entitled to take whatever damn line I please, as long as I don't block or cause crashes. I like to take the low line and stay low in the straights, which is what I did, right from the beginning. One other guy, the host, was racing with me. He tried a few times to pass on the outside, which failed, but he did get inside me 2 or 3 times and I let him take the lead, no problem. Each time, I took it back quite quickly. I probably had a slightly stronger car. 2 laps from the end, he deliberately crashes us both. (He didn't deny this). I hadn't even begun blocking yet. As you can imagine, I was pissed, after having such a good race with some good drivers. Apparently, he crashed me because he was frustrated that from lap 1 I didn't just give up the inside line on a sliver platter for him, and he couldn't pass me on the outside. He called this 'blocking'. This certainly doesn't fall within my understanding of the term - I kept the low, inside line all the way around the track and he had no problem pulling up beside me on the outside line several times. I've had this done to me in a few races myself and I have no problem with it. Am I within my rights? Or has a new N4 'gentleman's agreement' been decided on, unbeknownst to me, that decrees that even if I am the leader of the race, I immediately have to go to the outside as soon as somebody faster drafts up behind me? What's the call on this in league play? (I was playing on the public servers). It sure sounds like I'll just have to hand the lead over to whomever wants it or get crashed for being a poor sport. Thanks, -Phasor

Of course you were right. If they cant get past you high its there problem. Guy sounds like a dick. Doug D1 Phasor <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hi, > > I asked this question on Joshua's N4 newsgroup back when N4 was released. > 100% of replies were a resounding 'Yes, you are completely within your > rights'. I just want to check to see if anything has changed. > > Last night I was in a Talladega race with some pretty good drivers, good > enough to go 3 wide into a turn and keep it together. After some great > racing I grabbed the early lead by passing on the outside. > > As the leader of the race, I feel that I am entitled to take whatever damn > line I please, as long as I don't block or cause crashes. I like to take > the low line and stay low in the straights, which is what I did, right

from > the beginning. One other guy, the host, was racing with me. He tried afew > times to pass on the outside, which failed, but he did get inside me 2 or3 > times and I let him take the lead, no problem. Each time, I took it back > quite quickly. I probably had a slightly stronger car. > > 2 laps from the end, he deliberately crashes us both. (He didn't denythis).

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> I hadn't even begun blocking yet. As you can imagine, I was pissed, after > having such a good race with some good drivers. Apparently, he crashed me > because he was frustrated that from lap 1 I didn't just give up the inside > line on a sliver platter for him, and he couldn't pass me on the outside. > He called this 'blocking'. This certainly doesn't fall within my > understanding of the term - I kept the low, inside line all the way around > the track and he had no problem pulling up beside me on the outside line > several times. I've had this done to me in a few races myself and I have

no > problem with it. > > Am I within my rights? Or has a new N4 'gentleman's agreement' beendecided > on, unbeknownst to me, that decrees that even if I am the leader of the > race, I immediately have to go to the outside as soon as somebody faster > drafts up behind me? What's the call on this in league play? (I wasplaying > on the public servers). It sure sounds like I'll just have to hand thelead > over to whomever wants it or get crashed for being a poor sport. > > Thanks, > -Phasor > >

In article <[email hidden]>, "Phasor" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Am I within my rights? Or has a new N4 'gentleman's agreement' been decided >on, unbeknownst to me, that decrees that even if I am the leader of the >race, I immediately have to go to the outside as soon as somebody faster >drafts up behind me? What's the call on this in league play? (I was playing >on the public servers). It sure sounds like I'll just have to hand the lead >over to whomever wants it or get crashed for being a poor sport. >

I've seen this in league rules before for N3, and I disagree. The problem(as I understand it) is that if the cars are equal, it's almost *impossible* to pass on the high line. Even if the the following car is a little better, you have the same problem. So, if one driver jumps to the front, grabs the low line, and STAYS there, he's guaranteed a win. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

The EXACT same thing happened to me when I was racing about a month ago. I was leading, somebody was behind me, and I kept running low, running protective, in first place. There was about 8 laps to go and he had been trying to get around me for about 8 laps around the outside and couldn't, so finally he just punted me in the back. So I said, "why the hell did you do that" and he goes, " you were blocking me like it was the last lap for the whole race." so I go "i was just running the protective line" and he goes "you weren't working with me, your supposed to stay in line and work together" so i go "i was in line, in the protective line" and then he goes, "it's still blocking" WTF!?!?! That really pissed me off. I wanted to go to his house and beat him down right then. Thanks, Alex Phasor <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hi, > > I asked this question on Joshua's N4 newsgroup back when N4 was released. > 100% of replies were a resounding 'Yes, you are completely within your > rights'. I just want to check to see if anything has changed. > > Last night I was in a Talladega race with some pretty good drivers, good > enough to go 3 wide into a turn and keep it together. After some great > racing I grabbed the early lead by passing on the outside. > > As the leader of the race, I feel that I am entitled to take whatever damn > line I please, as long as I don't block or cause crashes. I like to take > the low line and stay low in the straights, which is what I did, right

from > the beginning. One other guy, the host, was racing with me. He tried afew > times to pass on the outside, which failed, but he did get inside me 2 or3 > times and I let him take the lead, no problem. Each time, I took it back > quite quickly. I probably had a slightly stronger car. > > 2 laps from the end, he deliberately crashes us both. (He didn't denythis).

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> I hadn't even begun blocking yet. As you can imagine, I was pissed, after > having such a good race with some good drivers. Apparently, he crashed me > because he was frustrated that from lap 1 I didn't just give up the inside > line on a sliver platter for him, and he couldn't pass me on the outside. > He called this 'blocking'. This certainly doesn't fall within my > understanding of the term - I kept the low, inside line all the way around > the track and he had no problem pulling up beside me on the outside line > several times. I've had this done to me in a few races myself and I have

no > problem with it. > > Am I within my rights? Or has a new N4 'gentleman's agreement' beendecided > on, unbeknownst to me, that decrees that even if I am the leader of the > race, I immediately have to go to the outside as soon as somebody faster > drafts up behind me? What's the call on this in league play? (I wasplaying > on the public servers). It sure sounds like I'll just have to hand thelead > over to whomever wants it or get crashed for being a poor sport. > > Thanks, > -Phasor > >

"Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> The EXACT same thing happened to me when I was racing about a month ago. I > was leading, somebody was behind me, and I kept running low, running > protective, in first place. There was about 8 laps to go and he had been > trying to get around me for about 8 laps around the outside and couldn't, so > finally he just punted me in the back. So I said, "why the hell did you do > that" and he goes, " you were blocking me like it was the last lap for the > whole race." so I go "i was just running the protective line" and he goes > "you weren't working with me, your supposed to stay in line and work > together" so i go "i was in line, in the protective line" and then he goes, > "it's still blocking" > > WTF!?!?! That really pissed me off. I wanted to go to his house and beat him > down right then.

Good thing we live on different continents regarding a certain IGPLC Mosport shunt :) Even if all the wreckers and ignorants are taken away, i feel that the N4 community is a lot more hostile than what the GPL community is, even when that was a infant. For instance, how come that I feel I am the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. In GPL I know who I race, in N4 it could be anyone on this ng without even knowing it. And one tip Alex: Please reply after what is written in a post, not on top since it makes a hell of a mess after a while. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : In article <[email hidden]>, "Phasor" <[email hidden]> writes: : I've seen this in league rules before for N3, and I disagree. The problem(as I : understand it) is that if the cars are equal, it's almost *impossible* to pass : on the high line. Even if the the following car is a little better, you have : the same problem. So, if one driver jumps to the front, grabs the low line, : and STAYS there, he's guaranteed a win. I have had plenty of fixed races where I could pass on the outside. But there are 2 key things that are required to make the pass successful. #1: The driver running on the inside must be able to hold his line!! You really have to drive the car very close to the car down low. #2: You have to have help. Really, it's the only way of making the pass work.. The guys behind you has to know how to draft. If you can imagine, I have had many problems with #1. Most of the time people like to drift up in the middle of the turns which is a real pain. You enter the corner door to door and before you know it your both in the wall. If they want to run low all day, fine, I'll race them all day like that. It's just that they don't stay there. Just my opinion, but if people are going to run so defensively like that they are going to get beat more often than not. Running so low makes you slow. It's a real momentum killer. Besides, with good help they won't stay up front very long anyways.

Ur right Olav and the GPL community is completely different to N4. Sadly I'm from the US and many of the idiots online in N4 make us USA'ers look dumber then we really are!!! I understand why many folks overseas dont want to bother with N4 as it seems like we are all nutz in N4 but this is not the case.. Sadly we have too many tho' "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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| Even if all the wreckers and ignorants are taken away, i feel that the | N4 community is a lot more hostile than what the GPL community is, | even when that was a infant. For instance, how come that I feel I am | the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. In | GPL I know who I race, in N4 it could be anyone on this ng without | even knowing it. | | And one tip Alex: Please reply after what is written in a post, not on | top since it makes a hell of a mess after a while. | -- | Olav K. Malmin

One thing ... THE FINISH LINE!! Anyone who bitches about courtesy in racing can go to the stands and be courtious while passing nachos. It's called RACING for a reason! "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nVBQ6.12197$[email hidden]...

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> Ur right Olav and the GPL community is completely different to N4. > Sadly I'm from the US and many of the idiots online in N4 make us > USA'ers look dumber then we really are!!! I understand why many > folks overseas dont want to bother with N4 as it seems like we are > all nutz in N4 but this is not the case.. Sadly we have too many tho' > > "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > | Even if all the wreckers and ignorants are taken away, i feel that the > | N4 community is a lot more hostile than what the GPL community is, > | even when that was a infant. For instance, how come that I feel I am > | the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. In > | GPL I know who I race, in N4 it could be anyone on this ng without > | even knowing it. > | > | And one tip Alex: Please reply after what is written in a post, not on > | top since it makes a hell of a mess after a while. > | -- > | Olav K. Malmin > > >

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> > Good thing we live on different continents regarding a certain IGPLC > Mosport shunt :) > > Even if all the wreckers and ignorants are taken away, i feel that the > N4 community is a lot more hostile than what the GPL community is, > even when that was a infant. For instance, how come that I feel I am > the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. In > GPL I know who I race, in N4 it could be anyone on this ng without > even knowing it. > > And one tip Alex: Please reply after what is written in a post, not on > top since it makes a hell of a mess after a while. > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove .spam when replying

Lol, Olav, it's okay. :) I had a feeling you would think I was Bart, but I was pushing a bit because I trying to stay ahead of Roberto for the race and the championship! Actually, it took out Roberto, so maybe it wasn't so bad, thanks Olav ;) I kinda noticed that too. Still fun to give some bubbah's some serious ass whopping using default setups, then tell them, as in shock, they cuss you out and say your lying :) (Happened last night at Atlanta, got pole with a 29.08 with the default qual setup and when i told them that they all cussed me out and said i was lying, hehe) Anyways, is this how I'm supposed to post? Thanks, Alex

Yeah, that's a dumb rule, but with the draft I can a lot of times pass on the outside, or fake them out. (While they are down low, I go way outside on the straight, then they see they can move up and get a better line through the corner, so I lift off a bit then tuck down inside) In the early days of NASCAR Heat online in the NH Yahoo Club (like 3 days after its release) there was 8 of us who used to race Daytona close. The leader would run protective and 2nd would be on the outside the whole time and then you'd weave through traffic and bump around a bit :) Good fun, of course after 6 or 7 laps we'd have a big wreck, but we always ended up laughing about it :) Thanks, Alex EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, "Phasor" <[email hidden]>writes: > > >Am I within my rights? Or has a new N4 'gentleman's agreement' beendecided > >on, unbeknownst to me, that decrees that even if I am the leader of the > >race, I immediately have to go to the outside as soon as somebody faster > >drafts up behind me? What's the call on this in league play? (I wasplaying > >on the public servers). It sure sounds like I'll just have to hand thelead > >over to whomever wants it or get crashed for being a poor sport. > > > > I've seen this in league rules before for N3, and I disagree. Theproblem(as I > understand it) is that if the cars are equal, it's almost *impossible* topass > on the high line. Even if the the following car is a little better, youhave > the same problem. So, if one driver jumps to the front, grabs the lowline,

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> and STAYS there, he's guaranteed a win. > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <yaAQ6.1583$[email hidden]>, "Aitch" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>I have had plenty of fixed races where I could pass on the outside. But >there are 2 key things that are required to make the pass successful. > >#1: The driver running on the inside must be able to hold his line!! You >really have to drive the car very close to the car down low. >#2: You have to have help. Really, it's the only way of making the pass >work.. The guys behind you has to know how to draft. >

I've never been able to stay in the draft LONG enough to pass anyone...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>"you weren't working with me, your supposed to stay in line and work >together" 99% of the people who say this, and there are many out there, never want to be the second or third back, only leading and get pissed if you pass them.

Such a Fact!! SUCH A FACT!! Wow!! "Oakus" wrote: | >"you weren't working with me, your supposed to stay in line and work | >together" | | 99% of the people who say this, and there are many out there, never wantto be | the second or third back, only leading and get pissed if you pass them.

"Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tBCQ6.14336$[email hidden]...

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> > > > > Good thing we live on different continents regarding a certain IGPLC > > Mosport shunt :) > > > > Even if all the wreckers and ignorants are taken away, i feel that the > > N4 community is a lot more hostile than what the GPL community is, > > even when that was a infant. For instance, how come that I feel I am > > the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. In > > GPL I know who I race, in N4 it could be anyone on this ng without > > even knowing it. > > > > And one tip Alex: Please reply after what is written in a post, not on > > top since it makes a hell of a mess after a while. > > > > -- > > Olav K. Malmin > > remove .spam when replying > > Lol, Olav, it's okay. :) I had a feeling you would think I was Bart, but I > was pushing a bit because I trying to stay ahead of Roberto for the race

and > the championship! Actually, it took out Roberto, so maybe it wasn't sobad, > thanks Olav ;) > > I kinda noticed that too. Still fun to give some bubbah's some serious ass > whopping using default setups, then tell them, as in shock, they cuss you > out and say your lying :) (Happened last night at Atlanta, got pole with a > 29.08 with the default qual setup and when i told them that they allcussed > me out and said i was lying, hehe) I've done that too. I've spent absolutely no time on setups (shame on me I know) and only use the default ones. I usually do pretty well in qualifying with the default qual, but get dusted most of the time with default moderate setups during the race.

I knew this would happen. It's too bad that it did though. I enjoy N4 but the online experience just blows. I don't have time to join a league so I race offline. Lately I've been playing with GP3 and although it's no GPL it is fun with the new GPxPatch for 3D sound. When WSC comes around, we may have the opportunity to start another good on-line racing community with a sim that looks to kick ass. "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nVBQ6.12197$[email hidden]...

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> Ur right Olav and the GPL community is completely different to N4. > Sadly I'm from the US and many of the idiots online in N4 make us > USA'ers look dumber then we really are!!! I understand why many > folks overseas dont want to bother with N4 as it seems like we are > all nutz in N4 but this is not the case.. Sadly we have too many tho' > > "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > | Even if all the wreckers and ignorants are taken away, i feel that the > | N4 community is a lot more hostile than what the GPL community is, > | even when that was a infant. For instance, how come that I feel I am > | the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. In > | GPL I know who I race, in N4 it could be anyone on this ng without > | even knowing it.

Phasor wrote: > > Hi, > <snip>

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> > 2 laps from the end, he deliberately crashes us both. (He didn't deny this). > I hadn't even begun blocking yet. As you can imagine, I was pissed, after > having such a good race with some good drivers. Apparently, he crashed me > because he was frustrated that from lap 1 I didn't just give up the inside > line on a sliver platter for him, and he couldn't pass me on the outside. > He called this 'blocking'. This certainly doesn't fall within my > understanding of the term - I kept the low, inside line all the way around > the track and he had no problem pulling up beside me on the outside line > several times. I've had this done to me in a few races myself and I have no > problem with it.

'Blocking'? They never called it that when Dale Earnhardt did it. -- J'm To Reply Direct, Remove Clothes. ...-.-

Unfortunately, there will always be jerks online. It's been happening since the days of Hawaii--if the host decides he doesn't like getting beat in a race he hosts, he pulls the plug. Happened twice this weekend racing N3 online. Hold your line, race your race. If you're in the lead, you don't need to 'let' anybody win, even if their car is faster. It's their job to get around you in a clean and safe manner. -- J'm To Reply Direct, Remove Clothes. ...-.-

In article <[email hidden]>, J'm Sm'th <[email hidden]> writes: >Unfortunately, there will always be jerks online. It's been happening >since the days of Hawaii--if the host decides he doesn't like getting >beat in a race he hosts, he pulls the plug. Happened twice this weekend >racing N3 online. Aren't you guys glad I don't do this on my GPL servers? No one would ever finish a race...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, J'm Sm'th > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Unfortunately, there will always be jerks online. It's been happening > >since the days of Hawaii--if the host decides he doesn't like getting > >beat in a race he hosts, he pulls the plug. Happened twice this weekend > >racing N3 online. > > Aren't you guys glad I don't do this on my GPL servers? No one would ever > finish a race...<g>

Unfortunately there are a lot of children out there. One host was booting folks just because they typed "let's race". What a joke. Makes me want to find an old copy of GPL anc -- J'm To Reply Direct, Remove Clothes. ...-.-

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> > EldredP wrote: > > > > In article <[email hidden]>, J'm Sm'th > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Unfortunately, there will always be jerks online. It's been happening > > >since the days of Hawaii--if the host decides he doesn't like getting > > >beat in a race he hosts, he pulls the plug. Happened twice this weekend > > >racing N3 online. > > > > Aren't you guys glad I don't do this on my GPL servers? No one would ever > > finish a race...<g> >

Unfortunately there are a lot of children out there. One host was booting folks just because they typed "let's race". What a joke. Makes me want to find an old copy of GPL and race against some gentlemen. -- J'm To Reply Direct, Remove Clothes. ...-.-

Besides the so called online non'courtesy mess in N4. Yes the GP3 GPxPatch for me is great!! I really like it!!. My only problem is too many sims and only 24hrs in a day!! shucks..lol I am also anxiously awaiting the arrival of WSC! This should be a real winner & I dont believe it is Vapor'Ware!! I know nothing of building a PC sim but it cant be easy no matter how many are working on it.. jmho "David L. Cook" wrote: | I knew this would happen. It's too bad that it did though. I enjoy N4but | the online experience just blows. I don't have time to join a league so I | race offline. Lately I've been playing with GP3 and although it's no GPLit | is fun with the new GPxPatch for 3D sound. | | When WSC comes around, we may have the opportunity to start another good | on-line racing community with a sim that looks to kick ass.

This is what I meant by the GPL community being racer-newbie friendly Eldred!! Now you can give urself a pat on the back!! WD kiddo!! :o) "EldredP" wrote: | Aren't you guys glad I don't do this on my GPL servers? No one would ever | finish a race...<g> | | Eldred

EldredP wrote... > Aren't you guys glad I don't do this on my GPL servers? > No one would ever finish a race...<g> Says the guy who took about a second a lap out of his competitors at the Indy225. It's a scam folks. He's not as pathetic as he makes himself out to be. <vwg> Jan. =---

Well I'm 14, but a very mature 14 year old ;) I know my friends wanna go online and start wrecking people for fun, so I understand what your saying. Of course, I never let 'em hehe. Well once my one friend got on when I was going to the bathroom on New Years Eve and started driving backwards around Monza. I can assure you he got a beat down :) Thanks, Alex J'm Sm'th <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> EldredP wrote: > > > > In article <[email hidden]>, J'm Sm'th > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Unfortunately, there will always be jerks online. It's been happening > > >since the days of Hawaii--if the host decides he doesn't like getting > > >beat in a race he hosts, he pulls the plug. Happened twice this

weekend > > >racing N3 online. > > > > Aren't you guys glad I don't do this on my GPL servers? No one wouldever

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> > finish a race...<g> > > Unfortunately there are a lot of children out there. One host was > booting folks just because they typed "let's race". What a joke. Makes > me want to find an old copy of GPL anc > -- > J'm > > > To Reply Direct, Remove Clothes. > ...-.- >

Well Alex it was New Years Eve.. hahaha Hell anyone racing then had to be drunk anywayz! hahaha So we'll forgive ur friend for one mistake! Cheers From Another 14yr/older At Heart!! :o) Me!! "Alex Kihurani" wrote: | Well I'm 14, but a very mature 14 year old ;) I know my friends wanna go | online and start wrecking people for fun, so I understand what yoursaying. | Of course, I never let 'em hehe. Well once my one friend got on when I was | going to the bathroom on New Years Eve and started driving backwardsaround | Monza. I can assure you he got a beat down :) | Thanks, | Alex

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > EldredP wrote... > > Aren't you guys glad I don't do this on my GPL servers? > > No one would ever finish a race...<g> > > Says the guy who took about a second a lap out of his competitors at the > Indy225. It's a scam folks. He's not as pathetic as he makes himself outto > be. <vwg> > > Jan. Ah, but modesty (AKA sharking) will get you everywhere. :) You sound like a real nice guy Eldred, unfortunately you're the only one who disagrees with my post. :) Thanks for the replies. -Phasor

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>Subject: Re: N4, Winning and Courtesy >From: [email hidden] (Oakus) >Date: 05/29/2001 12:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time >Message-id: <[email hidden]> > >>"you weren't working with me, your supposed to stay in line and work >>together" > >99% of the people who say this, and there are many out there, never want to >be >the second or third back, only leading and get pissed if you pass them. >

That line didn't make any sense cause the original poster indicated that he was leading. The weenie who came up with the work together BS should have been following the leader not trying to pass high. If he couldn't keep his car down low with the leader that's his problem not the leader's. (Don't gimme NOCRAP in E-mail)

Well.. if it was as you explain it then the host is a jerk. Can you tell me what server it is so I can avoid it? RB On Mon, 28 May 2001 13:11:20 -0700, "Phasor" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Hi, > >I asked this question on Joshua's N4 newsgroup back when N4 was released. >100% of replies were a resounding 'Yes, you are completely within your >rights'. I just want to check to see if anything has changed. > >Last night I was in a Talladega race with some pretty good drivers, good >enough to go 3 wide into a turn and keep it together. After some great >racing I grabbed the early lead by passing on the outside. > >As the leader of the race, I feel that I am entitled to take whatever damn >line I please, as long as I don't block or cause crashes. I like to take >the low line and stay low in the straights, which is what I did, right from >the beginning. One other guy, the host, was racing with me. He tried a few >times to pass on the outside, which failed, but he did get inside me 2 or 3 >times and I let him take the lead, no problem. Each time, I took it back >quite quickly. I probably had a slightly stronger car. > >2 laps from the end, he deliberately crashes us both. (He didn't deny this). >I hadn't even begun blocking yet. As you can imagine, I was pissed, after >having such a good race with some good drivers. Apparently, he crashed me >because he was frustrated that from lap 1 I didn't just give up the inside >line on a sliver platter for him, and he couldn't pass me on the outside. >He called this 'blocking'. This certainly doesn't fall within my >understanding of the term - I kept the low, inside line all the way around >the track and he had no problem pulling up beside me on the outside line >several times. I've had this done to me in a few races myself and I have no >problem with it. > >Am I within my rights? Or has a new N4 'gentleman's agreement' been decided >on, unbeknownst to me, that decrees that even if I am the leader of the >race, I immediately have to go to the outside as soon as somebody faster >drafts up behind me? What's the call on this in league play? (I was playing >on the public servers). It sure sounds like I'll just have to hand the lead >over to whomever wants it or get crashed for being a poor sport. > >Thanks, > -Phasor >

I always take the low line unless I'm loose in the turn then I will take high and let the draft pass. People get too pissy about wanting to get ahead of you. So its all subjective. My trying to control a loose car looks like blocking to the crackhead screaming at the monitor. :) RB On Mon, 28 May 2001 21:58:18 GMT, "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>The EXACT same thing happened to me when I was racing about a month ago. I >was leading, somebody was behind me, and I kept running low, running >protective, in first place. There was about 8 laps to go and he had been >trying to get around me for about 8 laps around the outside and couldn't, so >finally he just punted me in the back. So I said, "why the hell did you do >that" and he goes, " you were blocking me like it was the last lap for the >whole race." so I go "i was just running the protective line" and he goes >"you weren't working with me, your supposed to stay in line and work >together" so i go "i was in line, in the protective line" and then he goes, >"it's still blocking" > >WTF!?!?! That really pissed me off. I wanted to go to his house and beat him >down right then. > >Thanks,

On 29 May 2001 00:06:11 +0200, [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) wrote: >For instance, how come that I feel I am >the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. See? Like I said... the crackhead screaming at the monitor. :) It's the Internet. Most people don't do anything with their real name. The way Papyrus could have handled this is to force people to enter a CD key to join online races. And if you cause too many crashes (I'm sure they could come up with a way to do this) your account is suspended. RB

"Olav K. Malmin" wrote: > > For instance, how come that I feel I am > the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. In > GPL I know who I race, in N4 it could be anyone on this ng without > even knowing it. > Pre-patch, the names as entered in Nascar 4 were displayed in the player list. As it stands now, it seems that the username that you registered to get into the matching service is displayed, not your actual name from N4. I for one hate the change, but then again, my username nick is GregorV, so you'll be able to recognize me :). -Gregor

On Tue, 29 May 2001 14:46:30 -0500, J'm Sm'th <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Unfortunately there are a lot of children out there. One host was > booting folks just because they typed "let's race". What a joke. >Makes > me want to find an old copy of GPL and race against some gentlemen. > -- > J'm > > To Reply Direct, Remove Clothes. > ...-.-

Dear Jom Smath, Believe me, you DO want to find a copy of GPL.. I tried N4 online for a couple of weeks, but the pickup races were a total nightmare, seems like 90% of the N4 crowd are children and mentally less-gifted people.. I'm sure glad to be back on VROC :) Andre

Gee Andre, You're telling us that most of the N4'ers online elevator wont hit the top floor? hahaha OMG Your sooooo right! :o) I think sometimes it never leaves the basement..lol "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | and mentally less-gifted people.. | I'm sure glad to be back on VROC :) | Andre

You've just define the basic difference between circle track and road racing. Marty

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> I've seen this in league rules before for N3, and I disagree. The problem(as I > understand it) is that if the cars are equal, it's almost *impossible* to pass > on the high line. Even if the the following car is a little better, you have > the same problem. So, if one driver jumps to the front, grabs the low line, > and STAYS there, he's guaranteed a win. > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

The guy was out to lunch. No fundamental understand of the sport of motor racing. Just like in 'real' racing, this guy needs some 'counciling' from his competitors. Marty Phasor wrote:

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> Hi, > > I asked this question on Joshua's N4 newsgroup back when N4 was released. > 100% of replies were a resounding 'Yes, you are completely within your > rights'. I just want to check to see if anything has changed. > > Last night I was in a Talladega race with some pretty good drivers, good > enough to go 3 wide into a turn and keep it together. After some great > racing I grabbed the early lead by passing on the outside. > > As the leader of the race, I feel that I am entitled to take whatever damn > line I please, as long as I don't block or cause crashes. I like to take > the low line and stay low in the straights, which is what I did, right from > the beginning. One other guy, the host, was racing with me. He tried a few > times to pass on the outside, which failed, but he did get inside me 2 or 3 > times and I let him take the lead, no problem. Each time, I took it back > quite quickly. I probably had a slightly stronger car. > > 2 laps from the end, he deliberately crashes us both. (He didn't deny this). > I hadn't even begun blocking yet. As you can imagine, I was pissed, after > having such a good race with some good drivers. Apparently, he crashed me > because he was frustrated that from lap 1 I didn't just give up the inside > line on a sliver platter for him, and he couldn't pass me on the outside. > He called this 'blocking'. This certainly doesn't fall within my > understanding of the term - I kept the low, inside line all the way around > the track and he had no problem pulling up beside me on the outside line > several times. I've had this done to me in a few races myself and I have no > problem with it. > > Am I within my rights? Or has a new N4 'gentleman's agreement' been decided > on, unbeknownst to me, that decrees that even if I am the leader of the > race, I immediately have to go to the outside as soon as somebody faster > drafts up behind me? What's the call on this in league play? (I was playing > on the public servers). It sure sounds like I'll just have to hand the lead > over to whomever wants it or get crashed for being a poor sport. > > Thanks, > -Phasor

I'm loving this thread. I'd like to make a proposal to all here who believe racing should be about trying to pass your competetor not skewer him. When this subject comes up, like it frequently does, in chat after a race....speak up. Explain, persuade, argue, that motorsports should not a gladiator sport. There is professional wrestling for that. I enough us are will to engage the jerks in chat they will eventually get it or just go away. Peer pressure can be very effective. Marty "Thom j." wrote:

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> Ur right Olav and the GPL community is completely different to N4. > Sadly I'm from the US and many of the idiots online in N4 make us > USA'ers look dumber then we really are!!! I understand why many > folks overseas dont want to bother with N4 as it seems like we are > all nutz in N4 but this is not the case.. Sadly we have too many tho' > > "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > | Even if all the wreckers and ignorants are taken away, i feel that the > | N4 community is a lot more hostile than what the GPL community is, > | even when that was a infant. For instance, how come that I feel I am > | the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. In > | GPL I know who I race, in N4 it could be anyone on this ng without > | even knowing it. > | > | And one tip Alex: Please reply after what is written in a post, not on > | top since it makes a hell of a mess after a while. > | -- > | Olav K. Malmin

Now I know why I've never been that interested in seeing a WC race live. Marty Therron Thomas wrote:

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> One thing ... > > THE FINISH LINE!! > Anyone who bitches about courtesy in racing can go to the stands and be > courtious > while passing nachos. > > It's called RACING for a reason! > > "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:nVBQ6.12197$[email hidden]... > > Ur right Olav and the GPL community is completely different to N4. > > Sadly I'm from the US and many of the idiots online in N4 make us > > USA'ers look dumber then we really are!!! I understand why many > > folks overseas dont want to bother with N4 as it seems like we are > > all nutz in N4 but this is not the case.. Sadly we have too many tho' > > > > "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > | Even if all the wreckers and ignorants are taken away, i feel that the > > | N4 community is a lot more hostile than what the GPL community is, > > | even when that was a infant. For instance, how come that I feel I am > > | the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. In > > | GPL I know who I race, in N4 it could be anyone on this ng without > > | even knowing it. > > | > > | And one tip Alex: Please reply after what is written in a post, not on > > | top since it makes a hell of a mess after a while. > > | -- > > | Olav K. Malmin > > > > > >

In article <oHXQ6.25368$[email hidden]>, "Phasor" <[email hidden]> writes: >Ah, but modesty (AKA sharking) will get you everywhere. :) > >You sound like a real nice guy Eldred, unfortunately you're the only one who >disagrees with my post. :) > >Thanks for the replies. Uh, I *agreed* with you. I just said that I've seen league rules that say running the bottom line is 'blocking'. Since I thought the object was to WIN, if you can get there, and hold the line, go for it! Read my response again - I don't know how you interpreted that to mean I disagree with what you said...<shrug> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>EldredP wrote... >> Aren't you guys glad I don't do this on my GPL servers? >> No one would ever finish a race...<g> > >Says the guy who took about a second a lap out of his competitors at the >Indy225. It's a scam folks. He's not as pathetic as he makes himself out to >be. <vwg> >

Actually, I was *shocked*... I expected *you* to run away with the race - I didn't expect to get a podium finish, even with only 3 drivers<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Why's that? Don't like Nachos? Wayne "Marty U'Ren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Now I know why I've never been that interested in seeing a WC race live. > > Marty > > Therron Thomas wrote: > > > One thing ... > > > > THE FINISH LINE!! > > Anyone who bitches about courtesy in racing can go to the stands and be > > courtious > > while passing nachos. > > > > It's called RACING for a reason! > > > > "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:nVBQ6.12197$[email hidden]... > > > Ur right Olav and the GPL community is completely different to N4. > > > Sadly I'm from the US and many of the idiots online in N4 make us > > > USA'ers look dumber then we really are!!! I understand why many > > > folks overseas dont want to bother with N4 as it seems like we are > > > all nutz in N4 but this is not the case.. Sadly we have too many tho' > > > > > > "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > | Even if all the wreckers and ignorants are taken away, i feel that

the

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> > > | N4 community is a lot more hostile than what the GPL community is, > > > | even when that was a infant. For instance, how come that I feel I am > > > | the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. In > > > | GPL I know who I race, in N4 it could be anyone on this ng without > > > | even knowing it. > > > | > > > | And one tip Alex: Please reply after what is written in a post, not

on

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> > > | top since it makes a hell of a mess after a while. > > > | -- > > > | Olav K. Malmin > > > > > > > > > >

> While I agree N4 seems to provide a breeding ground for redneck misfits... with N4's quality, an awesome sound update, and a league of some very good GPL drivers, I'm hooked. An open Glen race last night showed how good it can be even with a jerk who started in back but could turn laps as fast a the leader. The replay showed he was very good but also showed less than a mature approach to racing. I was running very close to the guy ahead for several laps and I saw him closing behind me. The guy ahead was missing the apex of T1 under pressure and I was taking a wide entrance to T1 to try to pass low on the exit when the guy behind comes in hot on the inside and passes both of us at the apex. We both saw him coming and made room to prevent a wreak but it was still a dumb move. Few laps later he does it again trying to pass two cars in T10 but this time he only cleared one car and body slammed the other into the kitty litter. I don't know if it was intentional or brain fade but the guy he passed who saw him nail the car ahead of him went waaaaay too deep in T1 and soundly punted him off. I had to laugh at the justice of it. And still this guy turns another car around in the inter loop later. He finished way behind the leaders while me and the guy I diced with the whole race moved through the field to a 2-3 finish. Oh, and I did finally got him on the exit to T1 and he chased me to the finish. :) I guess my point is these types, even when fast, can be dealt with on track as well as off track It's as much of a challenge as dealing with confused backmarkers, and as rewarding. Marty

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> Dear Jom Smath, > > Believe me, you DO want to find a copy of GPL.. I tried N4 online for > a couple of weeks, but the pickup races were a total nightmare, seems > like 90% of the N4 crowd are children and mentally less-gifted > people.. > I'm sure glad to be back on VROC :) > > Andre

On Wed, 30 May 2001 10:18:53 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"Olav K. Malmin" wrote: >> >> For instance, how come that I feel I am >> the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. In >> GPL I know who I race, in N4 it could be anyone on this ng without >> even knowing it. >> > >Pre-patch, the names as entered in Nascar 4 were displayed in the player >list. As it stands now, it seems that the username that you registered >to get into the matching service is displayed, not your actual name from >N4. I for one hate the change, but then again, my username nick is >GregorV, so you'll be able to recognize me :). > >-Gregor

I think they did that so you know exactly what name to use to muzzle someone if they cause trouble during a race. Since they're probably not going to be in the lobby waiting for people to select and muzzle them, the only alternative is to manually add a name to your muzzle list. ___________________________ Kyle Langston [email hidden]

Here's my take on the matter. If you're running on the inside yellow line, I don't see a problem as long as the apron is still free. With help, there is still a chance someone is going to get a run on you. As long as you're prepared to move up if someone gets on your inside, that should be okay. There are going to be times when someone gets a run on you and goes to the inside, and the lower you are, the worse they're angle is going to be into the corner because they're even lower. If I were in the lead in a situation like this I would move up and give them a chance to move up a little before we reached the turn, so I had a decent chance of running alongside them without getting punted. On Mon, 28 May 2001 13:11:20 -0700, "Phasor" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Hi, > >I asked this question on Joshua's N4 newsgroup back when N4 was released. >100% of replies were a resounding 'Yes, you are completely within your >rights'. I just want to check to see if anything has changed. > >Last night I was in a Talladega race with some pretty good drivers, good >enough to go 3 wide into a turn and keep it together. After some great >racing I grabbed the early lead by passing on the outside. > >As the leader of the race, I feel that I am entitled to take whatever damn >line I please, as long as I don't block or cause crashes. I like to take >the low line and stay low in the straights, which is what I did, right from >the beginning. One other guy, the host, was racing with me. He tried a few >times to pass on the outside, which failed, but he did get inside me 2 or 3 >times and I let him take the lead, no problem. Each time, I took it back >quite quickly. I probably had a slightly stronger car. > >2 laps from the end, he deliberately crashes us both. (He didn't deny this). >I hadn't even begun blocking yet. As you can imagine, I was pissed, after >having such a good race with some good drivers. Apparently, he crashed me >because he was frustrated that from lap 1 I didn't just give up the inside >line on a sliver platter for him, and he couldn't pass me on the outside. >He called this 'blocking'. This certainly doesn't fall within my >understanding of the term - I kept the low, inside line all the way around >the track and he had no problem pulling up beside me on the outside line >several times. I've had this done to me in a few races myself and I have no >problem with it. > >Am I within my rights? Or has a new N4 'gentleman's agreement' been decided >on, unbeknownst to me, that decrees that even if I am the leader of the >race, I immediately have to go to the outside as soon as somebody faster >drafts up behind me? What's the call on this in league play? (I was playing >on the public servers). It sure sounds like I'll just have to hand the lead >over to whomever wants it or get crashed for being a poor sport. > >Thanks, > -Phasor >

___________________________ Kyle Langston [email hidden]

Eldred this will be one of the rare times I'll disagree with ya. Putting 1000s of laps in 'Wacky!' N3 and N4 you can pass on the outside! Is it easy? Well depends on the track, car setup & knowing how to slip'stream via the outside as verses inside.{speaking more of SSs} Also remember when a single or a group of cars come from behind they can draft like hell' on a staright & come unto the person in first a good 10-15mph faster then the guy in first! With this in mind they can go by him on the outside turns if their setup correctly! I've seen it and had it done to me 100s of times!! I never backed off the gas one millimeter either...<G> This can is also true with Fixed Setups. It is all in the way you approach position one and how much draft you've picked up!! No more, no less.. imho & my $0.02... Cheers Thom_j. Eldred wrote: | > I've seen this in league rules before for N3, and I disagree. Theproblem(as I | > understand it) is that if the cars are equal, it's almost *impossible*to pass | > on the high line. Even if the the following car is a little better, youhave | > the same problem. So, if one driver jumps to the front, grabs the lowline,

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| > and STAYS there, he's guaranteed a win. | > | > Eldred | > -- | > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 | > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett | > F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... | > | > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you | > with experience... | > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. |

On Mon, 28 May 2001 19:35:41 -0500, "Therron Thomas" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>One thing ... > >THE FINISH LINE!! >Anyone who bitches about courtesy in racing can go to the stands and be >courtious >while passing nachos. > >It's called RACING for a reason!

Bollocks - it's called a sport for a reason. Did you ever wonder the meaning of "sportsmanship", "sportsman", "sporting" - see the meanings behind those words? John

Hang in there Marty I got a million of dem'...hahaha "Marty U'Ren" wrote:

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| I'm loving this thread. | I'd like to make a proposal to all here who believe racing should be about | trying to pass your competetor not skewer him. | When this subject comes up, like it frequently does, in chat after a | race....speak up. Explain, persuade, argue, that motorsports should not a | gladiator sport. There is professional wrestling for that. | I enough us are will to engage the jerks in chat they will eventually get

it | or just go away. | Peer pressure can be very effective. | Marty<snipped for space>

I think also once you are muzzled or ejected no matter what nick name you use you are still muzzled or ejected. Within N4 online Sierra grabs your IP address & uses this, not you nickname. I like this!! :o) Also of course you can have more then one IP address but eventually you will run out of them if you are a constant wrecker or just a pure pain in the azz! <g> [At least this is the way it was explained to me..eeeeck] "Kyle Langston" wrote:

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| I think they did that so you know exactly what name to use to muzzle | someone if they cause trouble during a race. Since they're probably | not going to be in the lobby waiting for people to select and muzzle | them, the only alternative is to manually add a name to your muzzle | list. | ___________________________ | Kyle Langston | [email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>, John <[email hidden]> writes:

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>>One thing ... >> >>THE FINISH LINE!! >>Anyone who bitches about courtesy in racing can go to the stands and be >>courtious >>while passing nachos. >> >>It's called RACING for a reason! > >Bollocks - it's called a sport for a reason. Did you ever wonder the >meaning of "sportsmanship", "sportsman", "sporting" - see the meanings >behind those words? > >John

So you're supposed to just pull over and let the other guy go by? If you're being lapped - sure. If you're racing for position, it's HIS job to find a way around you safely... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Marty U'Ren <[email hidden]> writes:

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>You've just define the basic difference between circle track and road racing. > >Marty > >> I've seen this in league rules before for N3, and I disagree. The >problem(as I >> understand it) is that if the cars are equal, it's almost *impossible* to >pass >> on the high line. Even if the the following car is a little better, you >have >> the same problem. So, if one driver jumps to the front, grabs the low >line, >> and STAYS there, he's guaranteed a win.

We're talking N4. In the real world, the oval racing normally has more passes...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <hQdR6.15348$[email hidden]>, "Thom j." <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Eldred this will be one of the rare times I'll disagree with ya. Putting >1000s of laps in 'Wacky!' N3 and N4 you can pass on the outside! >Is it easy? Well depends on the track, car setup & knowing how to >slip'stream via the outside as verses inside.{speaking more of SSs} >Also remember when a single or a group of cars come from behind >they can draft like hell' on a staright & come unto the person in first >a good 10-15mph faster then the guy in first! With this in mind they >can go by him on the outside turns if their setup correctly! I've seen >it and had it done to me 100s of times!! I never backed off the gas >one millimeter either...<G> This can is also true with Fixed Setups. >It is all in the way you approach position one and how much draft >you've picked up!! No more, no less.. imho & my $0.02...

Well, my post said "as I understand it"... I'm sure it IS possible to pass. I've just never been able to do it... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Thom j." wrote: > > Eldred this will be one of the rare times I'll disagree with ya. Putting > 1000s of laps in 'Wacky!' N3 and N4 you can pass on the outside! Absolutely! I passed on the outside line thru T3-4 at Daytona last night on the last lap to take a 2nd place finish. Can definitely be done. -- Fester

OkeeDoeKee!! I wasnt trying to split hairs E..lol Sorry bout dat!! "EldredP" wrote: | Well, my post said "as I understand it"... I'm sure it IS possible topass. | I've just never been able to do it... | Eldred

Ooops - no wonder it didn't make much sense to me! Profuse apologies. -Phasor "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <oHXQ6.25368$[email hidden]>, "Phasor" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Ah, but modesty (AKA sharking) will get you everywhere. :) > > > >You sound like a real nice guy Eldred, unfortunately you're the only onewho > >disagrees with my post. :) > > > >Thanks for the replies. > > Uh, I *agreed* with you. I just said that I've seen league rules that say > running the bottom line is 'blocking'. Since I thought the object was toWIN, > if you can get there, and hold the line, go for it! Read my responseagain - I

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> don't know how you interpreted that to mean I disagree with what you > said...<shrug> > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.