Papyrus' on-disk N4 Manual Sux

I recently visited an old Flight Sim friend of mine I haven't seen for a while. I noticed he had the latest version of MS's Flight Sim on his system but only had a self-printed manual for it. I suggested he must of had a 'shady ' copy of the program to have to print out his own manual. He then showed me the original disk and pointed out to me that for the last several versions Microsoft has only provided an on-disk version of the manual that you have to print out yourself. The same with their Train Sim I understand. I also recently bought a retail genuine copy of N4 - only to be very disappointed by find that it didn't have a real manual - only an on-disk .pdf file one :-( It seems that we get less and less for our money. And some might say, less and less reason to bother with buying a genuine version of software. Interestingly, these providers have been saying for years that if they could only reduce piracy they would then have the resources to add more value for to their produces for everyone. But, in the worst traditions of commercial hypocrisy, it seems that now they are overcoming piracy they have now realise they can provide the absolute minimum value possible as now their clients have no alternative. It seems that the pirates were actually providing the essential, all-be-it unofficial, 'commercial' competition that keeps suppliers honest. It seems that software piracy actually provided a real service to end users after all - even the ones who always bought genuine. Apparently piracy forced the providers to add value to their original products to make them more attractive than a pirated version. They did this by the added desirable things you got in the box with a genuine version - such as a real manual amongst other things on occasion. If it takes piracy just to get the providers to give their customers the rather minimal item of printed manual then may the pirates live long and prosper. Then I will still buy the original anyway to get a genuine manual. Furthermore ... If Papyrus are going to treat their clients like dirt by making them print their own manuals, then the very least they could do would be to provide a manual version that actually prints in a half way reasonable fashion on a standard modern B&W ink jet printer. Instead we get the cheapest possible solution by just getting a standard manual on a .pdf file ( which can't be altered in any way to suit your printer ). It has many light grey text paragraphs which DON'T EVEN BLOODY-WELL PRINT SO YOU CAN READ THEM. Who on Earth is the quality control man at Papyrus ? Didn't he ( or she ) even try printing a copy of the pathetic excuse for an on-disk manual ? Apparently not. There is NOTHING on-disk worthy about the provided print-it-yourself manual. No cross references, no hyperlinks, no nothing, not even enough quality control to make sure that it was even actually printable. Do I now have to go and buy a high resolution printer just so I cant print the manual in a way so that all of it can be read ? Again I have to say... If it was the influence of software pirates that gave us real manuals etc in our purchases then more power to them. Papyrus really suck on this point. Phillip McNelley

Um.... I don't know where you got your retail copy of N4, but mine came with a nice 129 page manual. Are you sure your N4 manual wasn't missing from the box, or hidden under some packing material in the box??? -Paul E Western States Racing League www.wsrlracing.com "Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b75428b$0$20902$[email hidden]... > I recently visited an old Flight Sim friend of mine I haven't seen for a > while. I noticed he had the latest version of MS's Flight Sim on hissystem > but only had a self-printed manual for it. I suggested he must of had a > 'shady ' copy of the program to have to print out his own manual. He then > showed me the original disk and pointed out to me that for the lastseveral > versions Microsoft has only provided an on-disk version of the manual that > you have to print out yourself. The same with their Train Sim Iunderstand.

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> > I also recently bought a retail genuine copy of N4 - only to be very > disappointed by find that it didn't have a real manual - only an on-disk > .pdf file one :-( > > It seems that we get less and less for our money. And some might say, less > and less reason to bother with buying a genuine version of software. > > Interestingly, these providers have been saying for years that if they

could > only reduce piracy they would then have the resources to add more valuefor > to their produces for everyone. But, in the worst traditions of commercial > hypocrisy, it seems that now they are overcoming piracy they have now > realise they can provide the absolute minimum value possible as now their > clients have no alternative. It seems that the pirates were actually > providing the essential, all-be-it unofficial, 'commercial' competitionthat > keeps suppliers honest. > > It seems that software piracy actually provided a real service to endusers > after all - even the ones who always bought genuine. Apparently piracy > forced the providers to add value to their original products to make them > more attractive than a pirated version. They did this by the addeddesirable > things you got in the box with a genuine version - such as a real manual > amongst other things on occasion. > > If it takes piracy just to get the providers to give their customers the > rather minimal item of printed manual then may the pirates live long and > prosper. Then I will still buy the original anyway to get a genuinemanual.

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> > Furthermore ... > > If Papyrus are going to treat their clients like dirt by making them print > their own manuals, then the very least they could do would be to provide a > manual version that actually prints in a half way reasonable fashion on a > standard modern B&W ink jet printer. Instead we get the cheapest possible > solution by just getting a standard manual on a .pdf file ( which can't be > altered in any way to suit your printer ). It has many light grey text > paragraphs which DON'T EVEN BLOODY-WELL PRINT SO YOU CAN READ THEM. > > Who on Earth is the quality control man at Papyrus ? Didn't he ( or she ) > even try printing a copy of the pathetic excuse for an on-disk manual ? > Apparently not. There is NOTHING on-disk worthy about the provided > print-it-yourself manual. No cross references, no hyperlinks, no nothing, > not even enough quality control to make sure that it was even actually > printable. > > Do I now have to go and buy a high resolution printer just so I cant print > the manual in a way so that all of it can be read ? > > Again I have to say... If it was the influence of software pirates that

gave > us real manuals etc in our purchases then more power to them. Papyrusreally > suck on this point. > > Phillip McNelley > > >

I'm not sure where you got your copy, but AFAIK there are not any versions of N4 currently released in stores with a PDF manual (though it's been a while since I originally complied the N4 US and International installers, I'd like to think that I would have remembered including one). Note that there are certain retail outlets who require the use special packaging such as smaller boxes or even DVD style keep cases which can prohibit the inclusion of a full paper manual, but this has not yet been necessary for N4. - Eric "Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b75428b$0$20902$[email hidden]... > I also recently bought a retail genuine copy of N4 - only to be very > disappointed by find that it didn't have a real manual - only anon-disk > .pdf file one :-(

Notch one up on the list of typos that don't trip spell and grammar checkers. Jan. ;-) =--- "Eric Busch" wrote... > <snip> ...(though it's been a while since I originally > complied the N4 US and International installers... <snip> ^^^^^^^^

I just bought my copy of Nascar 4 and it came with a manual and no .pdf manual on the disk. Is it only the international version that comes without a Manual? GWL "Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b75428b$0$20902$[email hidden]... > I recently visited an old Flight Sim friend of mine I haven't seen for a > while. I noticed he had the latest version of MS's Flight Sim on hissystem > but only had a self-printed manual for it. I suggested he must of had a > 'shady ' copy of the program to have to print out his own manual. He then > showed me the original disk and pointed out to me that for the lastseveral > versions Microsoft has only provided an on-disk version of the manual that > you have to print out yourself. The same with their Train Sim Iunderstand.

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> > I also recently bought a retail genuine copy of N4 - only to be very > disappointed by find that it didn't have a real manual - only an on-disk > .pdf file one :-( > > It seems that we get less and less for our money. And some might say, less > and less reason to bother with buying a genuine version of software. > > Interestingly, these providers have been saying for years that if they

could > only reduce piracy they would then have the resources to add more valuefor > to their produces for everyone. But, in the worst traditions of commercial > hypocrisy, it seems that now they are overcoming piracy they have now > realise they can provide the absolute minimum value possible as now their > clients have no alternative. It seems that the pirates were actually > providing the essential, all-be-it unofficial, 'commercial' competitionthat > keeps suppliers honest. > > It seems that software piracy actually provided a real service to endusers > after all - even the ones who always bought genuine. Apparently piracy > forced the providers to add value to their original products to make them > more attractive than a pirated version. They did this by the addeddesirable > things you got in the box with a genuine version - such as a real manual > amongst other things on occasion. > > If it takes piracy just to get the providers to give their customers the > rather minimal item of printed manual then may the pirates live long and > prosper. Then I will still buy the original anyway to get a genuinemanual.

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> > Furthermore ... > > If Papyrus are going to treat their clients like dirt by making them print > their own manuals, then the very least they could do would be to provide a > manual version that actually prints in a half way reasonable fashion on a > standard modern B&W ink jet printer. Instead we get the cheapest possible > solution by just getting a standard manual on a .pdf file ( which can't be > altered in any way to suit your printer ). It has many light grey text > paragraphs which DON'T EVEN BLOODY-WELL PRINT SO YOU CAN READ THEM. > > Who on Earth is the quality control man at Papyrus ? Didn't he ( or she ) > even try printing a copy of the pathetic excuse for an on-disk manual ? > Apparently not. There is NOTHING on-disk worthy about the provided > print-it-yourself manual. No cross references, no hyperlinks, no nothing, > not even enough quality control to make sure that it was even actually > printable. > > Do I now have to go and buy a high resolution printer just so I cant print > the manual in a way so that all of it can be read ? > > Again I have to say... If it was the influence of software pirates that

gave > us real manuals etc in our purchases then more power to them. Papyrusreally > suck on this point. > > Phillip McNelley > > >

In article <3b75428b$0$20902$[email hidden]>, "Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> writes: >I also recently bought a retail genuine copy of N4 - only to be very >disappointed by find that it didn't have a real manual - only an on-disk >.pdf file one :-( Hmm.. My version has a manual in it(US version). Maybe all the Euro copies have .PDF's? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Nope... printed Manual and just the game on the CD here (bought in Brugge, Belgium). Jan. =--- "GWL" wrote... > I just bought my copy of Nascar 4 and it came with a manual > and no .pdf manual on the disk. Is it only the international > version that comes without a Manual? > > GWL

> Hmm.. My version has a manual in it(US version). Maybe all the Eurocopies > have .PDF's? > > Eldred Nope. My Norwegian copy had a printed manual. Jon Andersen

"Jon Andersen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NUhd7.1453$[email hidden]...

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> > > Hmm.. My version has a manual in it(US version). Maybe all the Euro > copies > > have .PDF's? > > > > Eldred > > > Nope. My Norwegian copy had a printed manual. > > Jon Andersen

...its in Chinese but what the heck ... it still qualifies. [grinz] Bob

Judging by the reply posts, it looks like Australia gets the short end of the stick. steve

What is the origin of manufacture on the box/cd? if it's from the USA or UK shipping costs to the land of OZ maybe have something to do with a on CD manual. Remember paper manuals ad weight. And we all know shipping charges are by weight. -- R.I.P. - William Joseph Dunlop OBE MBE 2/25/52 - 7/2/2000

Same here Phillip, just the cd & manual in pdf format, I guess most of the guys from ASRG got the same? Not really up the the standard we are used to with the other Nascar, indy,GPL title's from papyrus/sierra I e-lmailed Papyrus on this matter, still waiting for a reply. Rds TerryK "Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b75428b$0$20902$[email hidden]... > I recently visited an old Flight Sim friend of mine I haven't seen for a > while. I noticed he had the latest version of MS's Flight Sim on hissystem > but only had a self-printed manual for it. I suggested he must of had a > 'shady ' copy of the program to have to print out his own manual. He then > showed me the original disk and pointed out to me that for the lastseveral > versions Microsoft has only provided an on-disk version of the manual that > you have to print out yourself. The same with their Train Sim Iunderstand.

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> > I also recently bought a retail genuine copy of N4 - only to be very > disappointed by find that it didn't have a real manual - only an on-disk > .pdf file one :-( > > It seems that we get less and less for our money. And some might say, less > and less reason to bother with buying a genuine version of software. > > Interestingly, these providers have been saying for years that if they

could > only reduce piracy they would then have the resources to add more valuefor > to their produces for everyone. But, in the worst traditions of commercial > hypocrisy, it seems that now they are overcoming piracy they have now > realise they can provide the absolute minimum value possible as now their > clients have no alternative. It seems that the pirates were actually > providing the essential, all-be-it unofficial, 'commercial' competitionthat > keeps suppliers honest. > > It seems that software piracy actually provided a real service to endusers > after all - even the ones who always bought genuine. Apparently piracy > forced the providers to add value to their original products to make them > more attractive than a pirated version. They did this by the addeddesirable > things you got in the box with a genuine version - such as a real manual > amongst other things on occasion. > > If it takes piracy just to get the providers to give their customers the > rather minimal item of printed manual then may the pirates live long and > prosper. Then I will still buy the original anyway to get a genuinemanual.

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> > Furthermore ... > > If Papyrus are going to treat their clients like dirt by making them print > their own manuals, then the very least they could do would be to provide a > manual version that actually prints in a half way reasonable fashion on a > standard modern B&W ink jet printer. Instead we get the cheapest possible > solution by just getting a standard manual on a .pdf file ( which can't be > altered in any way to suit your printer ). It has many light grey text > paragraphs which DON'T EVEN BLOODY-WELL PRINT SO YOU CAN READ THEM. > > Who on Earth is the quality control man at Papyrus ? Didn't he ( or she ) > even try printing a copy of the pathetic excuse for an on-disk manual ? > Apparently not. There is NOTHING on-disk worthy about the provided > print-it-yourself manual. No cross references, no hyperlinks, no nothing, > not even enough quality control to make sure that it was even actually > printable. > > Do I now have to go and buy a high resolution printer just so I cant print > the manual in a way so that all of it can be read ? > > Again I have to say... If it was the influence of software pirates that

gave > us real manuals etc in our purchases then more power to them. Papyrusreally > suck on this point. > > Phillip McNelley > > >

I am in New Zealand and brought N4 form Canada. It was pas package in clear shrink wrap cellophane with m printed manual. I notice that the game is now available in NZ at EB stores in normal "box"type packaging . I have no idea as to whether the manual is included or not. A friend in Australia has just brought the game which came without manual. It would appear that it's purely a matter of what point of origin the game has been obtained from. That's not too good for the paying customer. Stu C "REDLINE426 @yahoo.com>" <redline426<NOSPAM> wrote in message news:L_jd7.11905$[email hidden]... > What is the origin of manufacture on the box/cd? if it's from the USA orUK

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> shipping costs to the land of OZ maybe have something to do with a on CD > manual. Remember paper manuals ad weight. And we all know shipping charges > are by weight. > > -- > R.I.P. - William Joseph Dunlop OBE MBE 2/25/52 - 7/2/2000 > > >

Umm buy the real retail version and you will get a manual. -- Darrin Stevens www.Stevens-Racing.com www.TeamECR.com www.SimRaceCar.com www.Thomas-SuperWheel.com "Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b75428b$0$20902$[email hidden]... > I recently visited an old Flight Sim friend of mine I haven't seen for a > while. I noticed he had the latest version of MS's Flight Sim on his system > but only had a self-printed manual for it. I suggested he must of had a > 'shady ' copy of the program to have to print out his own manual. He then > showed me the original disk and pointed out to me that for the last several > versions Microsoft has only provided an on-disk version of the manual that > you have to print out yourself. The same with their Train Sim I understand. > > I also recently bought a retail genuine copy of N4 - only to be very > disappointed by find that it didn't have a real manual - only an on-disk > .pdf file one :-( > > It seems that we get less and less for our money. And some might say, less > and less reason to bother with buying a genuine version of software. > > Interestingly, these providers have been saying for years that if they could > only reduce piracy they would then have the resources to add more value for > to their produces for everyone. But, in the worst traditions of commercial > hypocrisy, it seems that now they are overcoming piracy they have now > realise they can provide the absolute minimum value possible as now their > clients have no alternative. It seems that the pirates were actually > providing the essential, all-be-it unofficial, 'commercial' competition that > keeps suppliers honest. > > It seems that software piracy actually provided a real service to end users > after all - even the ones who always bought genuine. Apparently piracy > forced the providers to add value to their original products to make them > more attractive than a pirated version. They did this by the added desirable > things you got in the box with a genuine version - such as a real manual > amongst other things on occasion. > > If it takes piracy just to get the providers to give their customers the > rather minimal item of printed manual then may the pirates live long and > prosper. Then I will still buy the original anyway to get a genuine manual. > > Furthermore ... > > If Papyrus are going to treat their clients like dirt by making them print > their own manuals, then the very least they could do would be to provide a > manual version that actually prints in a half way reasonable fashion on a > standard modern B&W ink jet printer. Instead we get the cheapest possible > solution by just getting a standard manual on a .pdf file ( which can't be > altered in any way to suit your printer ). It has many light grey text > paragraphs which DON'T EVEN BLOODY-WELL PRINT SO YOU CAN READ THEM. > > Who on Earth is the quality control man at Papyrus ? Didn't he ( or she ) > even try printing a copy of the pathetic excuse for an on-disk manual ? > Apparently not. There is NOTHING on-disk worthy about the provided > print-it-yourself manual. No cross references, no hyperlinks, no nothing, > not even enough quality control to make sure that it was even actually > printable. > > Do I now have to go and buy a high resolution printer just so I cant print > the manual in a way so that all of it can be read ? > > Again I have to say... If it was the influence of software pirates that gave > us real manuals etc in our purchases then more power to them. Papyrus really > suck on this point. > > Phillip McNelley > > >

I do have the real version smartarse, how shall I prove it? CD Key. Photo of the box or CD, before calling us dishonest get the facts correct. Perhaps Papyrus could be wrong for gods sake. It's seems most of us in Australia did not get the manual, full stop, any other ideas D.Stevens? "Darrin Stevens" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b768ce4$[email hidden]...

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> Umm buy the real retail version and you will get a manual. > > -- > > Darrin Stevens > www.Stevens-Racing.com > www.TeamECR.com > www.SimRaceCar.com > www.Thomas-SuperWheel.com > > > "Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3b75428b$0$20902$[email hidden]... > > I recently visited an old Flight Sim friend of mine I haven't seen for a > > while. I noticed he had the latest version of MS's Flight Sim on his > system > > but only had a self-printed manual for it. I suggested he must of had a > > 'shady ' copy of the program to have to print out his own manual. He

then > > showed me the original disk and pointed out to me that for the last > several > > versions Microsoft has only provided an on-disk version of the manualthat

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> > you have to print out yourself. The same with their Train Sim I > understand. > > > > I also recently bought a retail genuine copy of N4 - only to be very > > disappointed by find that it didn't have a real manual - only an on-disk > > .pdf file one :-( > > > > It seems that we get less and less for our money. And some might say,

less

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> > and less reason to bother with buying a genuine version of software. > > > > Interestingly, these providers have been saying for years that if they > could > > only reduce piracy they would then have the resources to add more value > for > > to their produces for everyone. But, in the worst traditions of

commercial > > hypocrisy, it seems that now they are overcoming piracy they have now > > realise they can provide the absolute minimum value possible as nowtheir

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> > clients have no alternative. It seems that the pirates were actually > > providing the essential, all-be-it unofficial, 'commercial' competition > that > > keeps suppliers honest. > > > > It seems that software piracy actually provided a real service to end > users > > after all - even the ones who always bought genuine. Apparently piracy > > forced the providers to add value to their original products to make

them

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> > more attractive than a pirated version. They did this by the added > desirable > > things you got in the box with a genuine version - such as a real manual > > amongst other things on occasion. > > > > If it takes piracy just to get the providers to give their customers the > > rather minimal item of printed manual then may the pirates live long and > > prosper. Then I will still buy the original anyway to get a genuine > manual. > > > > Furthermore ... > > > > If Papyrus are going to treat their clients like dirt by making them

print > > their own manuals, then the very least they could do would be to providea > > manual version that actually prints in a half way reasonable fashion ona > > standard modern B&W ink jet printer. Instead we get the cheapestpossible > > solution by just getting a standard manual on a .pdf file ( which can'tbe > > altered in any way to suit your printer ). It has many light grey text > > paragraphs which DON'T EVEN BLOODY-WELL PRINT SO YOU CAN READ THEM. > > > > Who on Earth is the quality control man at Papyrus ? Didn't he ( orshe ) > > even try printing a copy of the pathetic excuse for an on-disk manual ? > > Apparently not. There is NOTHING on-disk worthy about the provided > > print-it-yourself manual. No cross references, no hyperlinks, nonothing, > > not even enough quality control to make sure that it was even actually > > printable. > > > > Do I now have to go and buy a high resolution printer just so I cantprint

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> > the manual in a way so that all of it can be read ? > > > > Again I have to say... If it was the influence of software pirates that > gave > > us real manuals etc in our purchases then more power to them. Papyrus > really > > suck on this point. > > > > Phillip McNelley > > > > > > > >

In article <3b768ce4$[email hidden]>, "Darrin Stevens" <[email hidden]> writes: >Umm buy the real retail version and you will get a manual. > Umm, he did. Read below... >> >> I also recently bought a retail genuine copy of N4 - only to be very >> disappointed by find that it didn't have a real manual - only an on-disk >> .pdf file one :-( Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

At least with N4 you have the cd key online protection. I seriously doubt if a pirate duped a bunch of cd's for distrubution in Oz, they would worry about scanning and converting the manual...You'd be completely sol with a black market version...At least if "I" was a pirate...:) dave(bottom line)henrie "Darrin Stevens" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b768ce4$[email hidden]...

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> Umm buy the real retail version and you will get a manual. > > -- > > Darrin Stevens > www.Stevens-Racing.com > www.TeamECR.com > www.SimRaceCar.com > www.Thomas-SuperWheel.com > > > "Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3b75428b$0$20902$[email hidden]... > > I recently visited an old Flight Sim friend of mine I haven't seen for a > > while. I noticed he had the latest version of MS's Flight Sim on his > system > > but only had a self-printed manual for it. I suggested he must of had a > > 'shady ' copy of the program to have to print out his own manual. He

then > > showed me the original disk and pointed out to me that for the last > several > > versions Microsoft has only provided an on-disk version of the manualthat

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> > you have to print out yourself. The same with their Train Sim I > understand. > > > > I also recently bought a retail genuine copy of N4 - only to be very > > disappointed by find that it didn't have a real manual - only an on-disk > > .pdf file one :-( > > > > It seems that we get less and less for our money. And some might say,

less

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> > and less reason to bother with buying a genuine version of software. > > > > Interestingly, these providers have been saying for years that if they > could > > only reduce piracy they would then have the resources to add more value > for > > to their produces for everyone. But, in the worst traditions of

commercial > > hypocrisy, it seems that now they are overcoming piracy they have now > > realise they can provide the absolute minimum value possible as nowtheir

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> > clients have no alternative. It seems that the pirates were actually > > providing the essential, all-be-it unofficial, 'commercial' competition > that > > keeps suppliers honest. > > > > It seems that software piracy actually provided a real service to end > users > > after all - even the ones who always bought genuine. Apparently piracy > > forced the providers to add value to their original products to make

them

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> > more attractive than a pirated version. They did this by the added > desirable > > things you got in the box with a genuine version - such as a real manual > > amongst other things on occasion. > > > > If it takes piracy just to get the providers to give their customers the > > rather minimal item of printed manual then may the pirates live long and > > prosper. Then I will still buy the original anyway to get a genuine > manual. > > > > Furthermore ... > > > > If Papyrus are going to treat their clients like dirt by making them

print > > their own manuals, then the very least they could do would be to providea > > manual version that actually prints in a half way reasonable fashion ona > > standard modern B&W ink jet printer. Instead we get the cheapestpossible > > solution by just getting a standard manual on a .pdf file ( which can'tbe > > altered in any way to suit your printer ). It has many light grey text > > paragraphs which DON'T EVEN BLOODY-WELL PRINT SO YOU CAN READ THEM. > > > > Who on Earth is the quality control man at Papyrus ? Didn't he ( orshe ) > > even try printing a copy of the pathetic excuse for an on-disk manual ? > > Apparently not. There is NOTHING on-disk worthy about the provided > > print-it-yourself manual. No cross references, no hyperlinks, nonothing, > > not even enough quality control to make sure that it was even actually > > printable. > > > > Do I now have to go and buy a high resolution printer just so I cantprint

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> > the manual in a way so that all of it can be read ? > > > > Again I have to say... If it was the influence of software pirates that > gave > > us real manuals etc in our purchases then more power to them. Papyrus > really > > suck on this point. > > > > Phillip McNelley > > > > > > > >

You apparently aren't aware of what your company is issuing then. Just to confirm ... This is an official version of the retail box version of N4 as released in Australian though official outlets. The box is the normal full software-game-size box as you'd see fill the shelves of software game shops - so there is no issue about the manual not being able to be fit in the box. There is no installer because ... Papyrus didn't even do that minimal step. You have to go find the manual on the disk yourself and if you want a copy of it on your HDD you have to manually copy it across. There is now less discernable difference between what Papyrus is offering as official and a pirate version - in Australia at least. Phillip "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9l3q60$9r4$[email hidden]...

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> I'm not sure where you got your copy, but AFAIK there are not any > versions of N4 currently released in stores with a PDF manual (though > it's been a while since I originally complied the N4 US and > International installers, I'd like to think that I would have remembered > including one). Note that there are certain retail outlets who require > the use special packaging such as smaller boxes or even DVD style keep > cases which can prohibit the inclusion of a full paper manual, but this > has not yet been necessary for N4. > > - Eric > > > "Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3b75428b$0$20902$[email hidden]... > > I also recently bought a retail genuine copy of N4 - only to be very > > disappointed by find that it didn't have a real manual - only an > on-disk > > .pdf file one :-( > >

Yes. And we pay amongst the highest prices for software anywhere in the world. Maybe Papyrus thinks we're too far away to bother about getting the same deal that everyone else in the world apparently gets. I wonder if it went like this ... " Hey, if we don't print manuals for the Australians then we'll save money. Great idea - but wont they complain ? Well put a manual on the CD then - that'll do for that market. What ? Write a proper on-disk manual that prints properly and all ? May as well just send them a printed manual. No of course not. Just do a .pdf version of the real manual and put that on - that'll do for them. OK, But do we need to make sure that a .pdf version of the real manual is actually printable so its' readable before we do that ? Isn't that what they mean when they say ' quality control ' ? Why bother. Only takes time. Hmm. OK. So we'll need to get an installer written then I guess. No no no. They'll find it on the CD if they need it. They can do a manual copy if they really want it can't they ? Wont they be upset that for the same money ( or more ) that the rest of the world paid for the same product they are getting materially less for their money ? Who cares. " Phillip "Steve Whitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b75bbdb$0$20932$[email hidden]... > Judging by the reply posts, it looks like Australia gets the short end of > the stick. > > steve > >

Unfortunately Papyrus really has no control of the International distributions. I simply build the installers as requested by Sierra (the Gold CD they were sent did not have a PDF manual and is virtually identical to the US installer), and Sierra handles all the replication and distribution steps. I have no idea why they chose to leave out the manual and tack a PDF onto the CD after the fact, though I'd assume shipping costs might come into play. Had it been known that this was their plan from the beginning, it would have taken about 5 extra minutes for me to add the PDF to the installer as well as Acrobat Reader, but I was never asked to do so. - Eric "Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b769c6e$0$20923$[email hidden]... > You apparently aren't aware of what your company is issuing then. > > Just to confirm ... > > This is an official version of the retail box version of N4 asreleased in > Australian though official outlets. > > The box is the normal full software-game-size box as you'd see fillthe > shelves of software game shops - so there is no issue about the manualnot > being able to be fit in the box. > > There is no installer because ... Papyrus didn't even do that minimalstep. > You have to go find the manual on the disk yourself and if you want acopy > of it on your HDD you have to manually copy it across. > > There is now less discernable difference between what Papyrus isoffering as > official and a pirate version - in Australia at least.

You'd need to ask Sierra why the decision was made, not Papyrus. - Eric "Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b769f3e$0$20970$[email hidden]... > Yes. And we pay amongst the highest prices for software anywhere inthe > world. Maybe Papyrus thinks we're too far away to bother about gettingthe > same deal that everyone else in the world apparently gets.

Yea quit picking on Papy. >:-( Sierra does all the $mula$ stuff, not Papy :) "Eric Busch" wrote:

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| You'd need to ask Sierra why the decision was made, not Papyrus. | - Eric | "Phillip McNelley" wrote: | > Yes. And we pay amongst the highest prices for software anywhere in | the | > world. Maybe Papyrus thinks we're too far away to bother about getting | the | > same deal that everyone else in the world apparently gets.

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No manual included in New Zealand - same as Australia. I printed my PDF manual off, and it now resides in my N4 box. Should have been supplied, but I forgive Papyrus (Sierra?), as N4 is such an awesome game!! :)) -- Rob. "Stu_C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:lSqd7.3490$[email hidden]... > I am in New Zealand and brought N4 form Canada. It was pas package in clear > shrink wrap cellophane with m printed manual. > > I notice that the game is now available in NZ at EB stores in normal > "box"type packaging . I have no idea as to whether the manual is included or > not. > > A friend in Australia has just brought the game which came without manual. > > It would appear that it's purely a matter of what point of origin the game > has been obtained from. That's not too good for the paying customer. > > Stu C > > > "REDLINE426 @yahoo.com>" <redline426<NOSPAM> wrote in message > news:L_jd7.11905$[email hidden]... > > What is the origin of manufacture on the box/cd? if it's from the USA or > UK > > shipping costs to the land of OZ maybe have something to do with a on CD > > manual. Remember paper manuals ad weight. And we all know shipping charges > > are by weight. > > > > -- > > R.I.P. - William Joseph Dunlop OBE MBE 2/25/52 - 7/2/2000 > > > > > > > >

What did you use to print it so the light grey text boxes could be read ? Even the darkest settings on my Canon ink jet don't make these dark enough to read ! Phillip "Rob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9l7e3n$v7p$[email hidden]... > No manual included in New Zealand - same as Australia. > I printed my PDF manual off, and it now resides in my N4 box. Shouldhave

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> been supplied, but I forgive Papyrus (Sierra?), as N4 is such an awesome > game!! :)) > > -- > > Rob. > "Stu_C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:lSqd7.3490$[email hidden]... > > I am in New Zealand and brought N4 form Canada. It was pas package in > clear > > shrink wrap cellophane with m printed manual. > > > > I notice that the game is now available in NZ at EB stores in normal > > "box"type packaging . I have no idea as to whether the manual is

included > or > > not. > > > > A friend in Australia has just brought the game which came withoutmanual. > > > > It would appear that it's purely a matter of what point of origin thegame

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> > has been obtained from. That's not too good for the paying customer. > > > > Stu C > > > > > > "REDLINE426 @yahoo.com>" <redline426<NOSPAM> wrote in message > > news:L_jd7.11905$[email hidden]... > > > What is the origin of manufacture on the box/cd? if it's from the USA

or > > UK > > > shipping costs to the land of OZ maybe have something to do with a onCD

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> > > manual. Remember paper manuals ad weight. And we all know shipping > charges > > > are by weight. > > > > > > -- > > > R.I.P. - William Joseph Dunlop OBE MBE 2/25/52 - 7/2/2000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Fair enough. Seems Sierra then are the ones who decided that Australians and New Zealanders don't need to get the same for their money that everyone else in the world gets. Phillip "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9l6c0f$nqu$[email hidden]...

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> You'd need to ask Sierra why the decision was made, not Papyrus. > > - Eric > > > "Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3b769f3e$0$20970$[email hidden]... > > Yes. And we pay amongst the highest prices for software anywhere in > the > > world. Maybe Papyrus thinks we're too far away to bother about getting > the > > same deal that everyone else in the world apparently gets. > >

Point taken. Seems Sierra are the ones then. Phillip "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9l6bvh$nmi$[email hidden]...

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> Unfortunately Papyrus really has no control of the International > distributions. I simply build the installers as requested by Sierra > (the Gold CD they were sent did not have a PDF manual and is virtually > identical to the US installer), and Sierra handles all the replication > and distribution steps. I have no idea why they chose to leave out the > manual and tack a PDF onto the CD after the fact, though I'd assume > shipping costs might come into play. Had it been known that this was > their plan from the beginning, it would have taken about 5 extra minutes > for me to add the PDF to the installer as well as Acrobat Reader, but I > was never asked to do so. > > - Eric > > > "Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3b769c6e$0$20923$[email hidden]... > > You apparently aren't aware of what your company is issuing then. > > > > Just to confirm ... > > > > This is an official version of the retail box version of N4 as > released in > > Australian though official outlets. > > > > The box is the normal full software-game-size box as you'd see fill > the > > shelves of software game shops - so there is no issue about the manual > not > > being able to be fit in the box. > > > > There is no installer because ... Papyrus didn't even do that minimal > step. > > You have to go find the manual on the disk yourself and if you want a > copy > > of it on your HDD you have to manually copy it across. > > > > There is now less discernable difference between what Papyrus is > offering as > > official and a pirate version - in Australia at least. > >

HP4000 Laser printer. -- Rob. "Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b775a30$0$20932$[email hidden]... > What did you use to print it so the light grey text boxes could be read ? > Even the darkest settings on my Canon ink jet don't make these dark enough > to read ! > > Phillip

In article <9l9i6h$fve$[email hidden]>, "Rob" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> > HP4000 Laser printer. > >-- > > Rob. >"Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:3b775a30$0$20932$[email hidden]... >> What did you use to print it so the light grey text boxes could be read ? >> Even the darkest settings on my Canon ink jet don't make these dark enough >> to read ! >> >> Phillip >

Printed at work, did you?<g> For as much as that printer costs, it BETTER print clearly... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

All I have to do if find someone with a laser printer and then I can print the manual. Such seem to be pretty rare around the people I know however. There is one guy I know who used to have one but I haven't seen him for years. Maybe I can roll up around his place and say " Hi Brian, just thought I'd catch up with you after all this time. Say ! You couldn't do a little printing job for me could you ?" Phillip "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <9l9i6h$fve$[email hidden]>, "Rob" <[email hidden]>writes:

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> > > > > HP4000 Laser printer. > > > >-- > > > > Rob. > >"Phillip McNelley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:3b775a30$0$20932$[email hidden]... > >> What did you use to print it so the light grey text boxes could be read

? > >> Even the darkest settings on my Canon ink jet don't make these darkenough

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> >> to read ! > >> > >> Phillip > > > > Printed at work, did you?<g> For as much as that printer costs, it BETTER > print clearly... > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"O" Hell just rubber stamp the damn thing :) "Phillip McNelley" wrote: | All I have to do if find someone with a laser printer and then I can print | the manual. Such seem to be pretty rare around the people I know however. | | There is one guy I know who used to have one but I haven't seen him for | years. Maybe I can roll up around his place and say " Hi Brian, justthought | I'd catch up with you after all this time. Say ! You couldn't do a little | printing job for me could you ?" | | Phillip --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001