Most realistic sim today?

Haven't played a lot of sim racing lately but have some time to get back into it. What are the most realistic sims right now? Would this be accurate? (1) GPL (2) rFactor (3) Live For Speed Where does GTR and GT Legends fit?

I think I'll take a nap. Alanb

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > I think I'll take a nap. > > > Alanb > > Aaaaaaaaahh....... aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.......... AAAAAAAAACHOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo!!!! Tito, hand me a tissue. MRSisson -- LOAD "GPL",8 SEARCHING FOR GPL LOADING READY. RUN

1) GTR 2) rFactor (if fictitious tracks/cars are OK with you) 3) NR2003 GPL is still a hoot, but its' physics model, especially with regard to response to setup changes, is not as realistic as the above. Let the games begin.

On 9 Oct 2005 16:57:19 -0700, "Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>1) GTR >2) rFactor (if fictitious tracks/cars are OK with you) >3) NR2003 > >GPL is still a hoot, but its' physics model, especially with regard to >response to setup changes, is not as realistic as the above. > >Let the games begin.

Where would LFS stand? Where can I get GTR? Isn't GT Legends the same thing?

[email hidden] wrote: > What are the most realistic sims right now? Would this be accurate? > (1) GPL > (2) rFactor > (3) Live For Speed (1) RBR (2) GTP for N2003 (3) V8 SuperCars for F1C (4) RH2004 for F1C I prefer the first 2, but I think the order of all 4 could be easily debated.

jason moyer wrote:

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> (1) RBR > (2) GTP for N2003 > (3) V8 SuperCars for F1C > (4) RH2004 for F1C > > I prefer the first 2, but I think the order of all 4 could be easily > debated.

I should add that I didn't rank GT Legends because I haven't played it yet, but based on the demo I think it would be fighting for the top spot with the other 4 here. The GPL69 mod should rank well when it's finished, altho I'd probably dock it points if it has the Lotus 49b I've seen in the screenshots of it (the one I've seen is the low front wing/high rear wing config which raced maybe once in 69 - altho I kinda think they were running both high wings at Spain when Hill/Rindt went off).

[email hidden] wrote: > What are the most realistic sims right now? GTL, GPL, GTR, LFS, RFactor, RBR, N2003, F1C, SCGT. And with all the mods and "privateer" projects (e.g. NetKar, Racer), there's plenty of choice for the motorsports sim enthusiast these days.

><[email hidden]> wrote > What are the most realistic sims right now? Depends on your definition of "realistic". Is a sim full of non-existing cars and tracks, and full of "possibilities" something realistic? More on that in 6 months <vbg> > Would this be accurate? > (1) GPL > (2) rFactor > (3) Live For Speed No. If you count on just and *only* just the physics, it would be something like 1) RBR, 2) RBR 3) RBR > Where does GTR and GT Legends fit? In the "ISI has yet to correct problems they had 5 years ago" list ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

You mean, where _do_ GTR and GT Legends fit? [email hidden] wrote: > > Where does GTR and GT Legends fit?

You mean, where _do_ GTR and GT Legends fit? > Where does GTR and GT Legends fit?

> What are the most realistic sims right now? Note: I still consider GPL one of the most fun and challenging sims around. In terms of physics feel, this would be my assessment..

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> (1) RBR > (2) GT Legends / rFactor (basically the same engine) > (3) NR 2003 > (4) GTR / F1 Challenge > (5) Netkar > (6) Live For Speed > (7) GPL

In article <434a1bdf$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > [email hidden] wrote: > > > > Where does GTR and GT Legends fit? > > You mean, where _do_ GTR and GT Legends fit? > I like to learn and have no problem with you pointing out common English errors Sno... errr, Bruce, but it would be nice if you stated WHY it is incorrect and maybe gave an example or two. I know there are people out there that hate 'grammar nazis', but there are also silent readers out there that take in the lesson and apply the knowledge. I have in the past, and I am sure I shall in the future. (Yeah, I checked over this message as best I could for errors. ;) ) MRSisson -- LOAD "GPL",8 SEARCHING FOR GPL LOADING READY. RUN

Michael Sisson wrote:

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> > In article <434a1bdf$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > > [email hidden] wrote: > > > > > > Where does GTR and GT Legends fit? > > > > You mean, where _do_ GTR and GT Legends fit? > > > > I like to learn and have no problem with you pointing out common > English errors Sno... errr, Bruce, but it would be nice if you stated > WHY it is incorrect and maybe gave an example or two.

I do You do He/she/it does We do You do They do ? :) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." --Our Lord John Cleese--

>> (1) RBR >> (2) GT Legends / rFactor (basically the same engine) GTLegends uses the same ISI Motor1 engine as GTR. rFactor uses the Motor 2. GTL has the graphics part updated to Motor 2 specs but otherwise its the same old as GTR, with same bugs. Here is my list, from a vantage point of just being a racing simulation: 1 GTR 2 RBR 3 rFactor (although no racing series is simulated) 4 N2003 5 GPL 6 LFS 7 Netkar 8 GTLegends 9 F1C -- Mika Takala

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > Michael Sisson wrote: > > > > In article <434a1bdf$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > > says... > > > > > [email hidden] wrote: > > > > > > > > Where does GTR and GT Legends fit? > > > > > > You mean, where _do_ GTR and GT Legends fit? > > > > > > > I like to learn and have no problem with you pointing out common > > English errors Sno... errr, Bruce, but it would be nice if you stated > > WHY it is incorrect and maybe gave an example or two. > > I do > You do > He/she/it does > We do > You do > They do > > ? :) > >

In other words, you have to take GTR and GT Legends as a pair and not two singular items. So it would fit under the 'They do' line instead of the 'it and it does' line. -- Pete Ives Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> I do > You do > He/she/it does > We do > You do > They do > > ? :) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > > --Our Lord John Cleese-- >

Real english....American style. She done it...I seen her. dh

"Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:op.syfgardb2umb9s@redmist:

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>> What are the most realistic sims right now? > > Note: I still consider GPL one of the most fun and challenging sims > around. > > In terms of physics feel, this would be my assessment.. > >> (1) RBR >> (2) GT Legends / rFactor (basically the same engine) >> (3) NR 2003 >> (4) GTR / F1 Challenge >> (5) Netkar >> (6) Live For Speed >> (7) GPL

Here's one to chew on. My time for the Nurburgring is something like 9:18 in GPL and 8:12 in GTR. So which is more real?

Peter <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... >> >> >> Michael Sisson wrote: >> > >> > In article <434a1bdf$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] >> > says... >> > >> > > [email hidden] wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Where does GTR and GT Legends fit? >> > > >> > > You mean, where _do_ GTR and GT Legends fit? >> > > >> > >> > I like to learn and have no problem with you pointing out common >> > English errors Sno... errr, Bruce, but it would be nice if you stated >> > WHY it is incorrect and maybe gave an example or two. >> >> I do >> You do >> He/she/it does >> We do >> You do >> They do >> >> ? :) >> >> > > In other words, you have to take GTR and GT Legends as a pair and not > two singular items. So it would fit under the 'They do' line instead of > the 'it and it does' line.

So the correct phrase would be "Where does {GTR,GT Legends} fit?" :)

> Here's one to chew on. My time for the Nurburgring is something like > 9:18 in GPL and 8:12 in GTR. So which is more real? Interesting, but not really relevant. The degree of difficulty in obtaining a certain lap speed and the degree to which the simulation responds realistically to setup and control inputs are actually two different things. IOW, just because it is difficult to go fast around the Ring in GPL doesn't necessarily mean GPL is more realistic. BTW, I concede I just forgot RBR, and that it belongs at or near the top of the list.

"Dave Henrie" ... > <snip> > Here's one to chew on. My time for the Nurburgring is > something like 9:18 in GPL and 8:12 in GTR. So which > is more real? I'd call that a draw, seeing as a moderately quick time in both is about 40 seconds quicker. <g> Jan. =---

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Peter <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > >> > >> > >> Michael Sisson wrote: > >> > > >> > In article <434a1bdf$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > >> > says... > >> > > >> > > [email hidden] wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Where does GTR and GT Legends fit? > >> > > > >> > > You mean, where _do_ GTR and GT Legends fit? > >> > > > >> > > >> > I like to learn and have no problem with you pointing out common > >> > English errors Sno... errr, Bruce, but it would be nice if you stated > >> > WHY it is incorrect and maybe gave an example or two. > >> > >> I do > >> You do > >> He/she/it does > >> We do > >> You do > >> They do > >> > >> ? :) > >> > >> > > > > In other words, you have to take GTR and GT Legends as a pair and not > > two singular items. So it would fit under the 'They do' line instead of > > the 'it and it does' line. > So the correct phrase would be > "Where does {GTR,GT Legends} fit?" > :) > >

No, that's even worse. :) -- Pete Ives Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

Peter <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... >> Peter <[email hidden]> wrote in >> news:[email hidden]: >> >> > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... >> >> >> >> >> >> Michael Sisson wrote: >> >> > >> >> > In article <434a1bdf$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] >> >> > says... >> >> > >> >> > > [email hidden] wrote: >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Where does GTR and GT Legends fit? >> >> > > >> >> > > You mean, where _do_ GTR and GT Legends fit? >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > I like to learn and have no problem with you pointing out >> >> > common >> >> > English errors Sno... errr, Bruce, but it would be nice if you >> >> > stated WHY it is incorrect and maybe gave an example or two. >> >> >> >> I do >> >> You do >> >> He/she/it does >> >> We do >> >> You do >> >> They do >> >> >> >> ? :) >> >> >> >> >> > >> > In other words, you have to take GTR and GT Legends as a pair and >> > not two singular items. So it would fit under the 'They do' line >> > instead of the 'it and it does' line. >> So the correct phrase would be >> "Where does {GTR,GT Legends} fit?" >> :) >> >> > No, that's even worse. :)

Trying to rephrase it once more :) "Where does the set of games consisting of and only of GTR and GT Legends fit?"

WRONG!! Which bugs do you feel have carried over to GTL from GTR, I'd love to hear them. Legends uses the Gmotor2 and it has been stated that the G is for graphics and rFactor uses the same motor/engine. -- "Mika Takala" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:f2u2f.9$[email hidden]... > >>> (1) RBR >>> (2) GT Legends / rFactor (basically the same engine) > > GTLegends uses the same ISI Motor1 engine as GTR. rFactor uses the Motor > 2. GTL has the graphics part updated to Motor 2 specs but otherwise its > the same old as GTR, with same bugs. > > Here is my list, from a vantage point of just being a racing simulation: > > 1 GTR > 2 RBR > 3 rFactor (although no racing series is simulated) > 4 N2003 > 5 GPL > 6 LFS > 7 Netkar > 8 GTLegends > 9 F1C > > -- > Mika Takala > >

"Chad Rogers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > WRONG!! Which bugs do you feel have carried over to GTL from GTR, I'd > love to hear them. Legends uses the Gmotor2 and it has been stated that > the G is for graphics and rFactor uses the same motor/engine. yep, GTLegends only uses the rFactor graphics engine, every other thing (including multiplayer&physics engine) is the same as in GTR. Calling those as basically the same is wrong, because graphics only make a part of a game engine... Then again, it is how the user sees/feels it that counts. If the user only sees the graphics, thats fine to me.... but a game experince has to do with physics and multiplayer as well. I haven't personally played the release version of GTLegends, but judging from what I've heard, the multiplayer is currently just as buggy as it was in GTR (and still is, and I'll bet that there will be no more patches as 90% of the GTR/GTL dev people have now left Simbin...). I'm about to give GTLegends a fair chance when my cousin buys it, though :) -- Mika Takala

"Mika Takala" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:f2u2f.9$[email hidden]... > > 3 rFactor (although no racing series is simulated) Haven't bumped into the F3 mod yet? Formula Ford? Formula 1? A little editing and all those things are right there.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Haven't played a lot of sim racing lately but have some time to get > back into it. > > What are the most realistic sims right now? Would this be accurate? > (1) GPL > (2) rFactor > (3) Live For Speed >

rFactor hands down > Where does GTR and GT Legends fit? very snuggly in the bargainbin (Bargainbin = Simbin's new Company Name) and very closely followed by the garbage bin

> What are the most realistic sims right now? In my opinion, does it really matter? Will racing game skills translate into actual driving skills? Hard to say. If the tracks are acurate, a racing game could help. However, once in a real car and on a real track, it's going to look and obviously feel different. To me, what counts is if the game is enjoyable. Grand Prix Legends seems to take the longest to learn, mostly because it has the highest power to weight ratio for non-downforce cars, and no assist features. Some mention that setups don't affect the cars much, but do the cars handle realistically? I've never driven a real 1967 F1 car, so I can't know, but it seems close enough for me. F1C99-02 F1's and rFactor Formulas have a very high power to weight ratio, but once at speed (about 100mph or so), the downforce makes these cars pretty easy to drive. GTR went through a few releases (from the 1.0 version) to get rid of the reaction of a car almost always facing backwards at the slighest loss of traction in the rear. The cars are still a bit squirrely when running against the curbing at Spa's bus stop, something that doesn't seem to happen on the real cars that routinely go over the curbing there, for example, this F1 car: http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/spaf1.wmv rFactor has several different cars. I've mostly done my hot lapping with the Formula at Toban, and it seems very similar to F1C99-02. I also ran the advanced trainer series about 8 times on a 2nd persona to "earn" credits for the Formula via career mode instead of using the ISI_BABYFACTORY code that I uses for my primary persona. The main thing I notice with rFactor is that downshifting seems to slow a car down quicker than I expected, and it can also be used to setup a pretty good drift in the the cars (with assists on). I'm not a purist though, as I can enjoy Need For Speed High Stakes as much as any simulation oriented game, and NFSHS has the most arcadish physics of any racing game I'm aware of, but it's very challenging, even more so than some simulation oriented games (if you go beyond just beating the AI cars and actually attempt to get good lap times, comparable to what online players can achieve). If you look at my racing game video page: http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/rgv.htm You can see that I've played several arcade type games as well as the simulation type games. I find both enjoyable.

I would argue physics about GTL and GTR with you all day compared to rFactor which is based on what? GTL and Simbin have access to all of the "real world" data and use it to build the physics engine. Why would Simbin use an older physics model when they paid to use the new one? Multi with GTR I would agree was poor, but based on the older engine it was as good as any of the ISI games from the old version. I have heard nothing but positive reviews about the multi and rfactor also has 16 as a recommended limit although it can be tweaked(as can GTL). The level of detail in the Simbin games/sims blows rFactor out of the water(not trying to knock it, I bought it). I hold out hope for good mods, but most of those modders won't have close to the access that simbin has with the FIA. As for patches, I haven't heard of a great need yet, although I see a couple of the Bliimey guys on RSC helping with tips now. Who really knows how that will work out, I sure don't. Chad -- Chad Rogers Hospital Account Manager P&G Pharmaceuticals (206)368-3582 (206)963-2036 cell "Mika Takala" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:htD2f.237$[email hidden]... > > "Chad Rogers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> WRONG!! Which bugs do you feel have carried over to GTL from GTR, I'd >> love to hear them. Legends uses the Gmotor2 and it has been stated that >> the G is for graphics and rFactor uses the same motor/engine. > > yep, GTLegends only uses the rFactor graphics engine, every other thing > (including multiplayer&physics engine) is the same as in GTR. Calling > those as basically the same is wrong, because graphics only make a part of > a game engine... Then again, it is how the user sees/feels it that counts. > If the user only sees the graphics, thats fine to me.... but a game > experince has to do with physics and multiplayer as well. > > I haven't personally played the release version of GTLegends, but judging > from what I've heard, the multiplayer is currently just as buggy as it was > in GTR (and still is, and I'll bet that there will be no more patches as > 90% of the GTR/GTL dev people have now left Simbin...). I'm about to give > GTLegends a fair chance when my cousin buys it, though :) > > -- > Mika Takala > >

After thinking about this for a while, the winner is Simpson's Hit and Run. No other simulation does as good a job of simulating the cars it models, but don't take my word for it, here's a video of a lap around Springfield: http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/hnr.wmv

>"Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote > After thinking about this for a while, the winner is Simpson's Hit and > Run. > No other simulation does as good a job of simulating the cars it models, > but don't take my word for it, here's a video of a lap around Springfield: H&R was a very frustrating experience actually driving those cars, but it was indeed very fun in every other aspect of the game. It's not realistic at all, please don't think we will take yourself any seriously when you write such things. It's a great gaming experience that has high points for immersion and the sheer quirky factor of the environments. Not for the realism of car behavior that we discuss about here. This is a SIM newsgroup, many games that you have on your video websites aren't discussed about here, because well we don't care about them. Newsgroups like c.s.i.p.g.a are for that. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> I haven't personally played the release version of GTLegends, but judging > from what I've heard, the multiplayer is currently just as buggy as it > was > in GTR (and still is, and I'll bet that there will be no more patches as > 90% of the GTR/GTL dev people have now left Simbin...) If that's true (I suspect it's not), I'll be avoiding GTL like the plague.

> The main thing I notice with > rFactor is that downshifting seems to slow a car down quicker than I > expected, and it can also be used to setup a pretty > good drift in the the cars (with assists on). You can adjust this in the car setup - engine brake map.

whoosh

>> After thinking about this for a while, the winner is Simpson's Hit and Run. > It's not realistic at all, Not that I was really being serious, but I think that H&R simulates the Simpons TV show quite well.

>> The main thing I notice with >> rFactor is that downshifting seems to slow a car down quicker than I expected, and it can also be used to setup a >> pretty >> good drift in the the cars (with assists on). > You can adjust this in the car setup - engine brake map. This wasn't what I meant. The braking effect when downshifting seems to exceed what should be possible based on grip from the rear tires. Maybe it was more noticable with assists on. With assists off, I'm a bit more careful about downshifting in order to avoid spinning out the car. With assists on, if I'm too fast by mid-corner, downshifting can often prevent the car from going off track, but then again, so does braking (I would have expected to plow off track when braking or spin out when downshifting). Will have to repeat experiements with assists off.

No problem, Michael...and my apology for not doing so. In the sentence under question, "does" is singular, yet the phrase "GTR and GT Legends" denotes a plural case by the use of the conjuction "and": there are two nouns under reference, not one. Therefore the plural "do" needs to be used instead of the singular "does". Bruce Michael Sisson wrote:

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> In article <434a1bdf$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > > > I like to learn and have no problem with you pointing out common > English errors Sno... errr, Bruce, but it would be nice if you stated > WHY it is incorrect and maybe gave an example or two. >

>"Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote > Not that I was really being serious, but I think that H&R simulates > the Simpons TV show quite well. The modeling is SO wrong, I mean the Cletus house isn't next to a bridge in real-life. Oh wait.. hmm ;)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Peter <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] says... > >> Peter <[email hidden]> wrote in > >> news:[email hidden]: > >> > >> > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Michael Sisson wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > In article <434a1bdf$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > >> >> > says... > >> >> > > >> >> > > [email hidden] wrote: > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > Where does GTR and GT Legends fit? > >> >> > > > >> >> > > You mean, where _do_ GTR and GT Legends fit? > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > I like to learn and have no problem with you pointing out > >> >> > common > >> >> > English errors Sno... errr, Bruce, but it would be nice if you > >> >> > stated WHY it is incorrect and maybe gave an example or two. > >> >> > >> >> I do > >> >> You do > >> >> He/she/it does > >> >> We do > >> >> You do > >> >> They do > >> >> > >> >> ? :) > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > In other words, you have to take GTR and GT Legends as a pair and > >> > not two singular items. So it would fit under the 'They do' line > >> > instead of the 'it and it does' line. > >> So the correct phrase would be > >> "Where does {GTR,GT Legends} fit?" > >> :) > >> > >> > > No, that's even worse. :) > Trying to rephrase it once more :) > "Where does the set of games consisting of and only of GTR and GT Legends > fit?" > >

Can't fault the use of does this time. Could question whether there needs to be either a comma or hyphen after 'games' and 'Legends', but I won't. ;-) -- Pete Ives Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

Jeff Reid wrote: > Not that I was really being serious, but I think that H&R simulates > the Simpons TV show quite well. H&R was awesome. Maybe the best use of the Simpsons license ever.

Personally, I still think it's NR2003. -Larry <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Haven't played a lot of sim racing lately but have some time to get > back into it. > > What are the most realistic sims right now? Would this be accurate? > (1) GPL > (2) rFactor > (3) Live For Speed > > Where does GTR and GT Legends fit?

Larry wrote:

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> Personally, I still think it's NR2003. > > -Larry > > <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >>Haven't played a lot of sim racing lately but have some time to get >>back into it. >> >>What are the most realistic sims right now? Would this be accurate? >>(1) GPL >>(2) rFactor >>(3) Live For Speed >> >>Where does GTR and GT Legends fit? > > >

I second that

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > >> I do >> You do >> He/she/it does >> We do >> You do >> They do >> >> ? :) >> >> >> Beers and cheers >> (uncle) Goy >> >> "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ >> >> "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, >> they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." >> >> --Our Lord John Cleese-- >> > > Real english....American style. > > She done it...I seen her. > > dh

I ain't got no setup fur this here thingamajig. :) Tim

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Haven't played a lot of sim racing lately but have some time to get > back into it. > > What are the most realistic sims right now? Define realistic :). Mike