V5 5500 and "my" best settings in N4 and GPL

I am sure this has been covered before but I thought I'd throw in some observations about the two racing sims in the title of this post when used in conjunction with a V5 5500 (AGP). I have had the V5 for over a year now and to be honest I set the resolution I liked and didn't play with it much. Lately (in the last couple of months) I have seen and participated in threads concerning whether or not GPL was best viewed with Glide or D3D... this prompted me to play around with the FSAA and resolution settings and I found that I could get 1280 X 1024 with 2X FSAA enabled to run at a stable 36fps on my system (Abit KT7A-Raid mobo with 1.2ghz. Athlon and 256mb PC133). I get this performance in GPL even at the back of a full field athough it will dip slightly starting a race at Monaco but it recovers to full 36fps very quickly. N4 is a different matter... I have found that if I run it at 1024 X 768 X 16 with 2X FSAA I get about 42pfs with slight dips in fps coming up to pit entrance and pit exit (drops to about 38fps in those areas but for very short moments). The biggest things I have found though is that some people are reporting running N4 at high resolutions (1600 X 1200) with no fsaa... this is what prompted me to try all different resolution settings in N4 and I have found that if I run at 1600 X 1200 X 16 (no FSAA) I get only 19fps and it doesn't look near as good as 1024 X 768 X 16 with 2X FSAA enabled. I have tried all the resolutions in N4 at 32bit colour but I get a corresponding fps hit that doesn't justify the better looking colour depth. (eg: 1024 X 768 X 32 = 28fps vs. 1024 X 768 X 16 = 42fps... I'll take framerate over colour depth anyday) I am posting this so that those with V5's can compare their results and post those if they would like... I am curious if I am in the right ball park performance wise and if anyone is getting significantly better performance I'd love to know how they are doing it. Regards, Robin

Robin.... That's great you were able to improve the FPS and picture quality on your V5500. However, you are forgetting about the issue of the "file texture size" limitation of all 3dfx video cards, as does our Mr. Dave Henry quite often when he is touting the virtues of 3dfx and his V5500 (does he still use that thing?). **Background** In pc games (and racing sims are what I consider the high-end of pc video games) the quality of the screen picture (I call this the "Eye Candy Factor".....scale of 1-10, where 10 is best) is more dependent these days on the texture map (mipmapping) and texture file size/color depth....than on the screen resolution/color depth of your monitor settings/video cards. Of course, any ECF of "10" is totally useless in a racing sim if it doesn't provide adequate FPS! So that must always be the first priority (IMHO)....when deciding on video card settings. Please don't be fooled into thinking I have much more "technical" background on this topic than the depth of it I just displayed (stated). Because I don't, and there are many others on this newsgroup who know for more about the technical issues than I (perhaps they will contribute to this string). However, I do have a fairly good "artist's eye".....and I think my opinion of what looks good and real-world realistic.... (my ECF scoring ability) is generally accepted by those people I sim race with here locally (and who's "race boxes" I build for them). They all use the sim tracks I *assemble* for them. **GPL - The Big Exception** 99% of the time, we as "users" of pc games and racing sims, can *not* do anything about the resolution and quality of the game's texture files. They are created by the game developer, locked up in "packed files" and not edit-able! But, that is not the case in GPL....is it. If you are a GPL junkie (and who isn't....if you love sim racing)....the worst video card you can use these days....is anything from 3dfx (on an otherwise fast CPU platform, especially). Why is that? Its because a 3dfx video card can not use polygon-covering texture files above 256x256 pixel size. In the original GPL released by Papyrus, that was the biggest texture file anyway.....so it didn't matter. But today......you have an enormous amount of talented graphic artists and programmers creating incredible texture files of high resolution....for GPL! Alas....no matter what the frame rate....a 3dfx video card can not use these files! Most of the high-res GPL tracks, cockpits, wheels and accessories make use of generous amounts of 512x512, and 512x256 texture files.....which will crash all 3dfx cards instantly. [Now, I have not used a 3dfx video card in about six months....so I will admit that if something has changed recently, or someone has produced some patch or fix for this.....then I am not aware of it.] **What You Miss With 3Dfx** "A picture is worth a thousand words"....and since my reputation on r.a.s. for long posts is still in force (some would say, in my case, "a picture is worth 10,000 words"....lol....), I'll just show you the difference: This first screen shot is the original Papyrus GPL, original files but V5500 "tweaked" to the best I knew (a few months back). Take a look: http://www.pabst-racing.com/webscreens/PRscrn-3a.jpg This is not a bad picture...in fact, it was pretty awesome almost three years ago and Papyrus should be proud for their leading-edge graphics in GPL (among other things). But, on a 3dfx card, other than improving on some coloring and textures....that's as good as it gets. Now, take at look at this screen shot, same place as the one above (Watkins Glen, main straight....overhead cam)....taken with a GF2 ULTRA (it looks about the same, slightly better on a GF3) but with high-res textures: http://www.pabst-racing.com/webscreens/PRscrn-3.jpg Is there really still a question about which video card you should be using? Robin, you have a good cpu and gaming platform.....a "race car" quality one, in fact! But, using a 3dfx video card on that platform is like putting regular fuel in an Audi LMP race car! Not very productive.....certainly not using the cpu and mobo you've invested in to any degree of its full capability. GF2-ULTRA (Do not buy anything less than an ULTRA if you get a GF2 card) and GF3 video cards are all over the net for the $300 (USD) range. I'm not saying its "cheap".....but "expensive" is what I call your cpu and mobo....using a 3dfx card on it....what a waste of money and awesome computing power! If you love GPL.....you simply have to have a GF3 (or GF2-ULTRA) video card! I hope this has been helpful to you......so you can see that not everything is just video card settings, screen res and FSAA related? Regards, Tom PS: I would give the first screen shot of Papy original GPL (using today's standards) an ECF score of [5]. I would give the second screen shot an ECF score of [8]. I have never seen an ECF [10]...not yet, at least! But I have given out several [9.5] scores on some WSC screenies I've seen!

Thanks for the reply and the info Tom. You did miss the point of my post though... the first sentence should have given it away for you so I'll quote it here - "I am sure this has been covered before but I thought I'd throw in some observations about the two racing sims in the title of this post when used in conjunction with a V5 5500 (AGP)." - the key part being the last eight words or so of the sentence. I know that the V5 does not match features or fill-rate with the current crop of nVidia cards but that wasn't the purpose of my post. I have a Syncmaster 950P monitor because it has one of the best ratings when it comes to sharpness of text in a 2D enviroment and that is very important to me. This is not my only system but it is more than just a gaming system and I demand clear, sharp, crisp text when using it for things other than sim-racing. I have seen the geforce cards and I was not impressed with their 2D image quality... or should I say lack thereof. I was hoping that owners of V5's would respond with what type of framerates they are getting with their systems using the two stated sims specifically. If someone was getting much better fps then I was hoping for an exchange of ideas between V5 owners on the best settings or drivers to accomplish those results. I was not hoping to spark yet another "us vs. them", "nVidia is better... no it isn't" debates. I would like to add that I am thinking of auditioning a Kyro II or next generation of that card if it's as versatile a graphics card as my current 3dfx card. I don't use ATI products because of shoddy driver support and I have had too many bad experiences with their products. I would like to state that I am not a hater of all things nVidia... I am looking forward to the nForce based motherboards for building a new system and I will weigh their benefits and demerits when shipping products are released. If someone can point me to an nVida based graphics card that matches my V5 in 2D image quality I may be willing to give it a try. I must reiterate though that I (in my personal experience) have yet to view a nVidia based card that came close. Regards, Robin

Tom I am QUITE aware of the texture limitations of the 3dfx card. However....to answer your question....Yes I still use it...WHY? simply because I still race a ton of old ICR2 tracks with the TPTCC leagues. Since only a few of the old tracks have been fixed to work with D3d I use glide. All the Nvidia users/Ati/etc have to run the uncorrected tracks in software...blech! Oh and since you mentioned it..:) It's not that I have been touting the virtures of the V5 5500 but rather I have been ASTONISHED at the problems Nvidia users have posted here over and over. Thankfully it seems most of those glitches have been ironed out...and if my Dog hadn't taken ill, I might have been able to squeeze another upgrade in this yearand actually purchased a GeeWhiz 2 Pro , but since I can't, I'm quite happy running SCGT with 4xfsaa and N3 with 4x fsaa and GPL with 2xfsaa(online I might add) When the GollyGeeWhiz 3 is priced at an appropriate level, perhaps I'll take an interest in that. :) dave HENRIE "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_l4s7.46174$L%[email hidden]...

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> Robin.... > > That's great you were able to improve the FPS and picture quality on > your V5500. However, you are forgetting about the issue of the "file > texture size" limitation of all 3dfx video cards, as does our Mr. Dave > Henry quite often when he is touting the virtues of 3dfx and his V5500 > (does he still use that thing?). >

great graphic upgrade btw...

Tom, your comparison is of no sense. you are comparing graphics tuned to run well on systems with about 150 MHz to something possible on systems with about 1500 MHz. These (MHz) are just marketing numbers, real CPU horsepower difference is much (5x, 10x?) higher. This is about same for GPU horsepower, maybe more, since consumer GPUs where just in the beginning. Your *texture size fact* is correct, 3dfx boards are limited. But these are marketing numbers as well. How does an image of at max 2000x1500 pixels does need a texture for a single polygon of a simple subobject of 512x512 pixels? If you would use large polygons of about a quarter of the complete resolution, than you would be correct. But this is not state of the art. the trend goes to more, smaller polygons which just need smaller textures. *More details* comes to my mind... off course, the larger the textures are, the better *may* be the rendering, but are you able to see the difference? I assume No. Only the rendering of the resulting picture would be more complicated (=horsepower consuming). *is* there really a difference in the resulting picture, just because of larger textures? I'm not sure. We could check each pixels colors while driving by, and comparing them with the original color which should have been there. But this would definitely destroy my laptime. If you are providing the "oversized"(from 3dfx point of view) textures, anybody with some knowledge in graphic tools would be able to "downsize" them to the 3dfx limits. And it would be a hard task to distinguish between the *resulting* pictures. To state it clear, i will not argue about "3dfx is better" or "geforce is the best" or something similar, that's not the point, just your comparison, and the base of it, is nonsense. I hope this has been helpful as well, it was quite a task being drunk and logical at the same time ;-) Joachim "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:_l4s7.46174$L%[email hidden]... > [snipped]

"Robin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2kMr7.22814$[email hidden]... > I am sure this has been covered before but I thought I'd throw in some > observations about the two racing sims in the title of this post when used > in conjunction with a V5 5500 (AGP). > I have had the V5 for over a year now and to be honest I set theresolution > I liked and didn't play with it much. Lately (in the last couple ofmonths) > I have seen and participated in threads concerning whether or not GPL was > best viewed with Glide or D3D... this prompted me to play around with the > FSAA and resolution settings and I found that I could get 1280 X 1024 with > 2X FSAA enabled to run at a stable 36fps on my system (Abit KT7A-Raid mobo > with 1.2ghz. Athlon and 256mb PC133). I get this performance in GPL evenat > the back of a full field athough it will dip slightly starting a race at > Monaco but it recovers to full 36fps very quickly. > N4 is a different matter... I have found that if I run it at 1024 X 768 X16 > with 2X FSAA I get about 42pfs with slight dips in fps coming up to pit > entrance and pit exit (drops to about 38fps in those areas but for very > short moments). The biggest things I have found though is that some people > are reporting running N4 at high resolutions (1600 X 1200) with no fsaa... > this is what prompted me to try all different resolution settings in N4and > I have found that if I run at 1600 X 1200 X 16 (no FSAA) I get only 19fps > and it doesn't look near as good as 1024 X 768 X 16 with 2X FSAA enabled. > I have tried all the resolutions in N4 at 32bit colour but I get a > corresponding fps hit that doesn't justify the better looking colourdepth. > (eg: 1024 X 768 X 32 = 28fps vs. 1024 X 768 X 16 = 42fps... I'll take > framerate over colour depth anyday) > I am posting this so that those with V5's can compare their results andpost

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> those if they would like... I am curious if I am in the right ball park > performance wise and if anyone is getting significantly better performance > I'd love to know how they are doing it. > Regards, > Robin > >

I still run a V5500. Honestly, I've thought about replacing it for a GF2 or GF3. System is a PIII 1GHZ, 512 meg ram. I can run GPL at 1024x768x16 w/ 2xFSAA and get 36 fps at all original papy tracks. Maybe a slight drop at the end of the field when the flag drops. Some of the addons, I have to drop down to 800x600. For N4, I run 800x600 w/ 2x FSAA and usually get anywhere from high 30's to 50's. Thats with 15 cars drawn ahead, 3 behind, world detail slider set kind of high. I am using 3dfx's 1.04.01 beta drivers with x3dfx's drivers. Heard people talk about using V6000 drivers for better results, but haven't tried it myself. In another computer I have a PIII 750MHZ, 256 megs ram, and a Hercules Prophet MX II. I get about the same performance, but I like the image quality better on my V5. I've set up the V5 using the tweak guide over at 3dSpotlight. http://www.3dspotlight.com/tweaks/voodoo5/index.shtml Anthony

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes: [snip]

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> **Background** > In pc games (and racing sims are what I consider the high-end of pc > video games) the quality of the screen picture (I call this the "Eye > Candy Factor".....scale of 1-10, where 10 is best) is more dependent > these days on the texture map (mipmapping) and texture file size/color > depth....than on the screen resolution/color depth of your monitor > settings/video cards.

This is just wrong imho. The kind of picture quality you need to get a good sim racing experience depends much more on the resolution (and resolution enhancements like anti-aliasing) than on the textures. Why? Because you need to see exactly where the car is on the track and where the track is going. Quake may look good at 1024x768 without any anti-aliasing, but to see exactly where a race track turns in front of you, you need as much resolution as you can get. Textures are very important for the sence of speed, but not even the original GPL textures are limiting here because of the 36 Hz frame rate limitation. Besides, your high quality picture looks like a very realistic picture of a 1:18 model car parked on the front lawn. You should scale down those grass textures to real life sizes to make the comparison valid. _ Mats Lofkvist [email hidden]

On Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:50:34 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote: >That's great you were able to improve the FPS and picture quality on >your V5500. However, you are forgetting about the issue of the "file >texture size" limitation of all 3dfx video cards, as does our Mr. Dave >Henry quite often when he is touting the virtues of 3dfx and his V5500 >(does he still use that thing?). I've a V5, and no problems using 512x512 textures. Of course, I've to use the D3D patch in GPL. The fact is that not the V5 itself has a texturesize limit, but the Glide standard has. (4Mb IIRC). When using D3D this is not an issue anymore. Remco

WOW!~! I knew there would be a difference but I didn't think it would be that big! Unfortunately my GPL graphics is slightly (just slightly) worse then yours. If GPL looks as good as your second picture, That's enough for me to go shopping. (still using a V5 550 AGP) -- Michael A. Barlow Vice President & Head of Marketing FILSCA (www.filsca.com) "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_l4s7.46174$L%[email hidden]... > Robin.... > > That's great you were able to improve the FPS and picture quality on > your V5500. However, you are forgetting about the issue of the "file > texture size" limitation of all 3dfx video cards, as does our Mr. Dave > Henry quite often when he is touting the virtues of 3dfx and his V5500 > (does he still use that thing?). > > > **What You Miss With 3Dfx** > "A picture is worth a thousand words"....and since my reputation on > r.a.s. for long posts is still in force (some would say, in my case, "a > picture is worth 10,000 words"....lol....), I'll just show you the > difference: --snipped a lot of good info for space--- > > This first screen shot is the original Papyrus GPL, original files but > V5500 "tweaked" to the best I knew (a few months back). Take a look: > > http://www.pabst-racing.com/webscreens/PRscrn-3a.jpg > > This is not a bad picture...in fact, it was pretty awesome almost three > years ago and Papyrus should be proud for their leading-edge graphics in > GPL (among other things). But, on a 3dfx card, other than improving on > some coloring and textures....that's as good as it gets. > > Now, take at look at this screen shot, same place as the one above > (Watkins Glen, main straight....overhead cam)....taken with a GF2 ULTRA > (it looks about the same, slightly better on a GF3) but with high-res > textures: > > http://www.pabst-racing.com/webscreens/PRscrn-3.jpg > > Is there really still a question about which video card you should be > using? >

Michael, before you go shopping: Try the new Glen textures posted in the legends central forum, i doubt you will see any noticeable difference. this comparison is nonsense because of different starting points. -- Joachim B�ddeker "Michael Barlow" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:7ils7.546336$[email hidden]... > WOW!~! I knew there would be a difference but I didn't think it would > be that big! Unfortunately my GPL graphics is slightly (just slightly) worse > then yours. If GPL looks as good as your second picture, That's enough for > me to go shopping. (still using a V5 550 AGP)

"Anthony Brooks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > I still run a V5500. Honestly, I've thought about replacing it for a GF2or > GF3. System is a PIII 1GHZ, 512 meg ram. I can run GPL at 1024x768x16 w/ > 2xFSAA and get 36 fps at all original papy tracks. Maybe a slight drop at > the end of the field when the flag drops. Some of the addons, I have todrop > down to 800x600. For N4, I run 800x600 w/ 2x FSAA and usually get anywhere > from high 30's to 50's. Thats with 15 cars drawn ahead, 3 behind, world > detail slider set kind of high. I am using 3dfx's 1.04.01 beta driverswith

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> x3dfx's drivers. Heard people talk about using V6000 drivers for better > results, but haven't tried it myself. In another computer I have a PIII > 750MHZ, 256 megs ram, and a Hercules Prophet MX II. I get about the same > performance, but I like the image quality better on my V5. I've set up the > V5 using the tweak guide over at 3dSpotlight. > http://www.3dspotlight.com/tweaks/voodoo5/index.shtml > > Anthony >

Anthony, I think you and I are on the same page as far as performance goes... I have read that the V5 scales fairly well with more processor speed and that is born out in the numbers you have stated in relation to mine. I failed to mention the settings I am using graphics wise in both sims. GPL has all graphics maxed out except no drivers arms (I find them distracting) and no crowds... everything else is fully enabled. N4 I have "Car Detail" set to "High, "World Detail" set to 75%, "Drawing Distance Ahead" set to 100%, "In Mirror" set to 15%. I have the "Maximum Opponents" settings at "Ahead = 12" and "In Mirror = 3". "Mirror Objects" set to "medium" and "Trackside Objects" set to "some". I have the "Steering Wheel" setting turned off but all other graphics effects are enabled. I use the 1.04.1 3dfx drivers in conjunction with the x3dfx drivers as well. I have used the tweak guide at 3dSpotlight... printed it out as a matter of fact and refer to it often. I've never heard of the V6000 drivers. I guess my 1.2ghz. Athlon is what allows me to run with the same fps you get at the next higher resolution and still maintaining use of 2X FSAA. Thanks for the comparisons. Robin

I guess this goes to robin, Anthony , and of course Remco (who IMO made the sweetest pass I ever seen at VROC in my 2 1/2 years there :o)) I purchased a gf 3 some time ago but have never been totally satisfied with it. I want to put back in my V5. GPL will work fine but N4 is the one I am concerned about. I thought that it ran better with the GF3. I had to run it in D3d with the V5. If I could get N4 up to snuff I would put the card back in. What drivers would you recommend for the V5? Where can I find them? Any known tweaks that will help me with N4? I also seen that wicked gl was recommended at the tweak page. does anyone use that with their v5? Any info would be appreciated. Miss my voodoo... Dave Ciemny Mookytc Robin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_yqs7.25409$[email hidden]...

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> "Anthony Brooks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > I still run a V5500. Honestly, I've thought about replacing it for a GF2 > or > > GF3. System is a PIII 1GHZ, 512 meg ram. I can run GPL at 1024x768x16 w/ > > 2xFSAA and get 36 fps at all original papy tracks. Maybe a slight drop

at > > the end of the field when the flag drops. Some of the addons, I have to > drop > > down to 800x600. For N4, I run 800x600 w/ 2x FSAA and usually getanywhere

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> > from high 30's to 50's. Thats with 15 cars drawn ahead, 3 behind, world > > detail slider set kind of high. I am using 3dfx's 1.04.01 beta drivers > with > > x3dfx's drivers. Heard people talk about using V6000 drivers for better > > results, but haven't tried it myself. In another computer I have a PIII > > 750MHZ, 256 megs ram, and a Hercules Prophet MX II. I get about the same > > performance, but I like the image quality better on my V5. I've set up

the

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> > V5 using the tweak guide over at 3dSpotlight. > > http://www.3dspotlight.com/tweaks/voodoo5/index.shtml > > > > Anthony > > > > Anthony, > I think you and I are on the same page as far as performance goes... I

have

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> read that the V5 scales fairly well with more processor speed and that is > born out in the numbers you have stated in relation to mine. I failed to > mention the settings I am using graphics wise in both sims. GPL has all > graphics maxed out except no drivers arms (I find them distracting) and no > crowds... everything else is fully enabled. > N4 I have "Car Detail" set to "High, "World Detail" set to 75%, "Drawing > Distance Ahead" set to 100%, "In Mirror" set to 15%. I have the "Maximum > Opponents" settings at "Ahead = 12" and "In Mirror = 3". > "Mirror Objects" set to "medium" and "Trackside Objects" set to "some". I > have the "Steering Wheel" setting turned off but all other graphics

effects > are enabled. > I use the 1.04.1 3dfx drivers in conjunction with the x3dfx drivers aswell. > I have used the tweak guide at 3dSpotlight... printed it out as a matterof > fact and refer to it often. I've never heard of the V6000 drivers. I guess > my 1.2ghz. Athlon is what allows me to run with the same fps you get atthe > next higher resolution and still maintaining use of 2X FSAA. > Thanks for the comparisons. > Robin > >

Ooops forgot in all the excitement... Motherboard Asus K7V, KX133, 5PCI, 0ISA, AGP 4X, ATA66 Athlon CPU AMD Athlon 800MHz, 3DNOW, 512Kcache CPU Cooler CPU cooler/heatsink for Pentium II/Athlon CPU's 768MB RAM 7 ns, PC133, CAS 2 -133MHz ATX Midtower 3- 5�" & 5- 3�" (2 open) bays, 300 Watt PS, 2 extra fans Hard Drive Maxtor 30.7GB Diamondmax Plus 40 9ms 7200RPM ATA66 2M David Ciemny <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%pCs7.643$[email hidden]... > I guess this goes to robin, Anthony , and of course Remco (who IMO madethe > sweetest pass I ever seen at VROC in my 2 1/2 years there :o)) > > I purchased a gf 3 some time ago but have never been totally satisfiedwith > it. I want to put back in my V5. GPL will work fine but N4 is the one I am > concerned about. I thought that it ran better with the GF3. I had to runit > in D3d with the V5. If I could get N4 up to snuff I would put the cardback > in. What drivers would you recommend for the V5? Where can I find them?Any

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> known tweaks that will help me with N4? I also seen that wicked gl was > recommended at the tweak page. does anyone use that with their v5? > > Any info would be appreciated. Miss my voodoo... > > Dave Ciemny > Mookytc > Robin <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:_yqs7.25409$[email hidden]... > > "Anthony Brooks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > I still run a V5500. Honestly, I've thought about replacing it for a

GF2 > > or > > > GF3. System is a PIII 1GHZ, 512 meg ram. I can run GPL at 1024x768x16w/ > > > 2xFSAA and get 36 fps at all original papy tracks. Maybe a slight drop > at > > > the end of the field when the flag drops. Some of the addons, I haveto > > drop > > > down to 800x600. For N4, I run 800x600 w/ 2x FSAA and usually get > anywhere > > > from high 30's to 50's. Thats with 15 cars drawn ahead, 3 behind,world > > > detail slider set kind of high. I am using 3dfx's 1.04.01 beta drivers > > with > > > x3dfx's drivers. Heard people talk about using V6000 drivers forbetter > > > results, but haven't tried it myself. In another computer I have aPIII > > > 750MHZ, 256 megs ram, and a Hercules Prophet MX II. I get about thesame

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> > > performance, but I like the image quality better on my V5. I've set up > the > > > V5 using the tweak guide over at 3dSpotlight. > > > http://www.3dspotlight.com/tweaks/voodoo5/index.shtml > > > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > Anthony, > > I think you and I are on the same page as far as performance goes... I > have > > read that the V5 scales fairly well with more processor speed and that

is > > born out in the numbers you have stated in relation to mine. I failed to > > mention the settings I am using graphics wise in both sims. GPL has all > > graphics maxed out except no drivers arms (I find them distracting) andno > > crowds... everything else is fully enabled. > > N4 I have "Car Detail" set to "High, "World Detail" set to 75%, "Drawing > > Distance Ahead" set to 100%, "In Mirror" set to 15%. I have the "Maximum > > Opponents" settings at "Ahead = 12" and "In Mirror = 3". > > "Mirror Objects" set to "medium" and "Trackside Objects" set to "some".I

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> > have the "Steering Wheel" setting turned off but all other graphics > effects > > are enabled. > > I use the 1.04.1 3dfx drivers in conjunction with the x3dfx drivers as > well. > > I have used the tweak guide at 3dSpotlight... printed it out as a matter > of > > fact and refer to it often. I've never heard of the V6000 drivers. I

guess

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> > my 1.2ghz. Athlon is what allows me to run with the same fps you get at > the > > next higher resolution and still maintaining use of 2X FSAA. > > Thanks for the comparisons. > > Robin > > > > > >

If it is the 1.04.01 drivers can anyone zip them up and send to me? I tried to download them but the site is trying to send the 1.04.00 ones :o/ DC David Ciemny <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9uCs7.811$[email hidden]...

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> Ooops forgot in all the excitement... > > Motherboard Asus K7V, KX133, 5PCI, 0ISA, AGP 4X, ATA66 > > Athlon CPU AMD Athlon 800MHz, 3DNOW, 512Kcache > > CPU Cooler CPU cooler/heatsink for Pentium II/Athlon CPU's > > 768MB RAM 7 ns, PC133, CAS 2 -133MHz > > ATX Midtower 3- 5�" & 5- 3�" (2 open) bays, 300 Watt PS, 2 extra fans > > Hard Drive Maxtor 30.7GB Diamondmax Plus 40 9ms 7200RPM ATA66 2M > > > > > David Ciemny <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:%pCs7.643$[email hidden]... > > I guess this goes to robin, Anthony , and of course Remco (who IMO made > the > > sweetest pass I ever seen at VROC in my 2 1/2 years there :o)) > > > > I purchased a gf 3 some time ago but have never been totally satisfied > with > > it. I want to put back in my V5. GPL will work fine but N4 is the one I

am > > concerned about. I thought that it ran better with the GF3. I had torun

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> it > > in D3d with the V5. If I could get N4 up to snuff I would put the card > back > > in. What drivers would you recommend for the V5? Where can I find them? > Any > > known tweaks that will help me with N4? I also seen that wicked gl was > > recommended at the tweak page. does anyone use that with their v5? > > > > Any info would be appreciated. Miss my voodoo... > > > > Dave Ciemny > > Mookytc > > Robin <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:_yqs7.25409$[email hidden]... > > > "Anthony Brooks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > I still run a V5500. Honestly, I've thought about replacing it for a > GF2 > > > or > > > > GF3. System is a PIII 1GHZ, 512 meg ram. I can run GPL at

1024x768x16 > w/ > > > > 2xFSAA and get 36 fps at all original papy tracks. Maybe a slightdrop

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> > at > > > > the end of the field when the flag drops. Some of the addons, I have > to > > > drop > > > > down to 800x600. For N4, I run 800x600 w/ 2x FSAA and usually get > > anywhere > > > > from high 30's to 50's. Thats with 15 cars drawn ahead, 3 behind, > world > > > > detail slider set kind of high. I am using 3dfx's 1.04.01 beta

drivers

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> > > with > > > > x3dfx's drivers. Heard people talk about using V6000 drivers for > better > > > > results, but haven't tried it myself. In another computer I have a > PIII > > > > 750MHZ, 256 megs ram, and a Hercules Prophet MX II. I get about the > same > > > > performance, but I like the image quality better on my V5. I've set

up

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> > the > > > > V5 using the tweak guide over at 3dSpotlight. > > > > http://www.3dspotlight.com/tweaks/voodoo5/index.shtml > > > > > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > Anthony, > > > I think you and I are on the same page as far as performance goes... I > > have > > > read that the V5 scales fairly well with more processor speed and that > is > > > born out in the numbers you have stated in relation to mine. I failed

to > > > mention the settings I am using graphics wise in both sims. GPL hasall > > > graphics maxed out except no drivers arms (I find them distracting)and > no > > > crowds... everything else is fully enabled. > > > N4 I have "Car Detail" set to "High, "World Detail" set to 75%,"Drawing > > > Distance Ahead" set to 100%, "In Mirror" set to 15%. I have the"Maximum > > > Opponents" settings at "Ahead = 12" and "In Mirror = 3". > > > "Mirror Objects" set to "medium" and "Trackside Objects" set to"some".

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> I > > > have the "Steering Wheel" setting turned off but all other graphics > > effects > > > are enabled. > > > I use the 1.04.1 3dfx drivers in conjunction with the x3dfx drivers as > > well. > > > I have used the tweak guide at 3dSpotlight... printed it out as a

matter > > of > > > fact and refer to it often. I've never heard of the V6000 drivers. I > guess > > > my 1.2ghz. Athlon is what allows me to run with the same fps you getat

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> > the > > > next higher resolution and still maintaining use of 2X FSAA. > > > Thanks for the comparisons. > > > Robin > > > > > > > > > > > >

"David Ciemny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%pCs7.643$[email hidden]... > I guess this goes to robin, Anthony , and of course Remco (who IMO madethe > sweetest pass I ever seen at VROC in my 2 1/2 years there :o)) > > I purchased a gf 3 some time ago but have never been totally satisfiedwith > it. I want to put back in my V5. GPL will work fine but N4 is the one I am > concerned about. I thought that it ran better with the GF3. I had to runit > in D3d with the V5. If I could get N4 up to snuff I would put the cardback > in. What drivers would you recommend for the V5? Where can I find them?Any

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> known tweaks that will help me with N4? I also seen that wicked gl was > recommended at the tweak page. does anyone use that with their v5? > > Any info would be appreciated. Miss my voodoo... > > Dave Ciemny > Mookytc

David, I have sent you zipped versions of both the 1.04.01 and the x3dfx drivers... you'll find instructions on how to install the x3dfx drivers over the 1.04.01 drivers at -- http://www.3dspotlight.com/tweaks/voodoo5/index.shtml along with a great, extensive article on the best way to tweak this card... I have used the guide to setup my V5 and I have yet to find any other tip or trick that has made the performance of my V5 significantly better. If you were reading what my responce to Anthony was then you know that the V5 (in my experience) scales very well with cpu horsepower. Processor prices in the AMD line have never been lower and if your willing to part with a little cash and upgrade your cpu (even a 1ghz. Athlon should oc to 1.2ghz.) you will see similar fps to what I have on my system under d3d. Currently running 1024 X 768 X 16 with 2X FSAA and not dropping under 38fps in any situation. Add that to the fact that the FSAA looks great and I think it's worth the trouble. Regards, Robin

Oops, ISP didn't like the size of that attachment but here is a link you can get the drivers at: http://www.voodoofiles.com/3203 The link is slow so have patience and the x3dfx driver location is listed at the 3dSpotlight tweak guide I linked you to in my previous post. Regards, Robin

Hi Robin..I will put the V5 back in tonight. however I cannot get the x3dfx driver link to open. So I should load the 1.04.01 beta drivers first then the x3dfx drivers? Anything else I should do. I seen the x3dfx gl was replaced by the 3dfx one is some cases? Sincerely... Dave C. Robin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kMIs7.26917$[email hidden]... > Oops, ISP didn't like the size of that attachment but here is a link youcan > get the drivers at: > > http://www.voodoofiles.com/3203 > > The link is slow so have patience and the x3dfx driver location is listedat > the 3dSpotlight tweak guide I linked you to in my previous post. > Regards, > Robin > >

Hi Robin..I will put the V5 back in tonight. however I cannot get the x3dfx driver link to open. So I should load the 1.04.01 beta drivers first then the x3dfx drivers? Anything else I should do. I seen the x3dfx gl was replaced by the 3dfx one is some cases? Sincerely... Dave C. Robin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kMIs7.26917$[email hidden]... > Oops, ISP didn't like the size of that attachment but here is a link youcan > get the drivers at: > > http://www.voodoofiles.com/3203 > > The link is slow so have patience and the x3dfx driver location is listedat > the 3dSpotlight tweak guide I linked you to in my previous post. > Regards, > Robin > >

Hi Robin..I will put the V5 back in tonight. however I cannot get the x3dfx driver link to open. So I should load the 1.04.01 beta drivers first then the x3dfx drivers? Anything else I should do. I seen the x3dfx gl was replaced by the 3dfx one is some cases? Sincerely... Dave C. Robin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kMIs7.26917$[email hidden]... > Oops, ISP didn't like the size of that attachment but here is a link youcan > get the drivers at: > > http://www.voodoofiles.com/3203 > > The link is slow so have patience and the x3dfx driver location is listedat > the 3dSpotlight tweak guide I linked you to in my previous post. > Regards, > Robin > >

OMG..having trouble with my newsgroup. sorry <embarrassed> DC David Ciemny <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zpPs7.210$[email hidden]... > Hi Robin..I will put the V5 back in tonight. however I cannot get thex3dfx > driver link to open. So I should load the 1.04.01 beta drivers first then > the x3dfx drivers? > > Anything else I should do. I seen the x3dfx gl was replaced by the 3dfxone

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> is some cases? > > Sincerely... > > Dave C. > Robin <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:kMIs7.26917$[email hidden]... > > Oops, ISP didn't like the size of that attachment but here is a link you > can > > get the drivers at: > > > > http://www.voodoofiles.com/3203 > > > > The link is slow so have patience and the x3dfx driver location is

listed

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> at > > the 3dSpotlight tweak guide I linked you to in my previous post. > > Regards, > > Robin > > > > > >

"David Ciemny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PhPs7.202$[email hidden]... > Hi Robin..I will put the V5 back in tonight. however I cannot get thex3dfx > driver link to open. So I should load the 1.04.01 beta drivers first then > the x3dfx drivers? > > Anything else I should do. I seen the x3dfx gl was replaced by the 3dfxone > is some cases? > > Sincerely... > > Dave C. Dave, Sorry about that link not working... I can't remember where I got those drivers from originally. Probably from 3dfx's web site. My best advice, when you do find them, is to install them and then install the x3dfx version over them. Remeber to heed the advice of the 3dSpotlight tweak article for the V5... they mention backing up the 3dfxvs.dll/3dfxvs.vxd file (depending on which O.S. you are using) before you install the x3dfx driver and then once the x3dfx driver has been installed replace their (3dfxvs.dll/3dfxvs.vxd) file with the version you backed up. Apparently, the x3dfx D3D driver has some problems. Other than that caveat the x3dfx driver has given me better performance and I have been very happy with it. Good Luck, Robin

"David Ciemny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PhPs7.202$[email hidden]... > Hi Robin..I will put the V5 back in tonight. however I cannot get thex3dfx > driver link to open. So I should load the 1.04.01 beta drivers first then > the x3dfx drivers? > > Anything else I should do. I seen the x3dfx gl was replaced by the 3dfxone > is some cases? > > Sincerely... > > Dave C. Dave, I found a site that has the 1.04.01 beta driver that you are looking for. It is at: http://www.falconfly.de/3dfx.htm ...scroll to near the bottom of the page and you'll see it listed under the V5 download section. Regards, Robin