rec.autos.simulators

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

c

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by c » Thu, 09 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Yes, I have almost absolute proof that we will all be playing GPL for
several more years, and not some cool, new, racing sim.  I say this because
of Superbike 2000.  It sucks.  Big.  Much worse than 99 (which I liked).
What sucks so much about it is that they majorly dumbed it down.  Even with
FULL realism and NO help, I can walk a 6 gear wheelie with almost no effort,
even through a chicane or two...  It's ridiculous!!!
So my assumption is.... Everyone complained that superbike 99 was way too
hard, so they made it easier (lamer) for all the yokels out there...

And you think someone's going to make a car sim like GPL again??

        Ha!

SpeedRacer

Ace

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by Ace » Thu, 09 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I'm with you on that one. GPL rules the roost (just wish I was better at
it)! I predict (Although I hope I'm wrong) that as the market expands, we'll
end up seeing more of these ***games masquerading as sims.


>Yes, I have almost absolute proof that we will all be playing GPL for
>several more years, and not some cool, new, racing sim.  I say this because
>of Superbike 2000.  It sucks.  Big.  Much worse than 99 (which I liked).
>What sucks so much about it is that they majorly dumbed it down.  Even with
>FULL realism and NO help, I can walk a 6 gear wheelie with almost no
effort,
>even through a chicane or two...  It's ridiculous!!!
>So my assumption is.... Everyone complained that superbike 99 was way too
>hard, so they made it easier (lamer) for all the yokels out there...

>And you think someone's going to make a car sim like GPL again??

>        Ha!

>SpeedRacer

<n..

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by <n.. » Fri, 10 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Definately. Superbike 2000 is almost as bad as Cartrol Honda Superbikes!

I had been expecting at least 'some' competition to GP500 - SBK2000 wasn't
it...

Morgan VW

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by Morgan VW » Fri, 10 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Pardon my ignorance... I'm new to motorbike sims... But what's actually wrong
with SBK2000? And is the original game really any better? I'm thinking of
downloading this 50MB monster to check it out based on *your* opinion. All the
other opinions I've ever heard about Superbike World Championship (from EA
Sports/Milestone/released in '98, I think... that's what you're referring to,
right? With the "superbike 99" reference?) is that it was more arcadish than
anything else.

--
-----------------------------------
Morgan Vincent Wooten

http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/
-----------------------------------


Andre Warring

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by Andre Warring » Fri, 10 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Just download the demo, SBK2000 is imho really a superb sim!

Andre



Morgan VW

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by Morgan VW » Fri, 10 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I already have SBK2000, the demo and the full version, and I love it. I'm
asking about the previous version: Superbike World Championship, and what's
wrong with the current version as opposed to its predecessor.

--
-----------------------------------
Morgan Vincent Wooten

http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/
-----------------------------------


> Just download the demo, SBK2000 is imho really a superb sim!

> Andre




Han

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by Han » Fri, 10 Mar 2000 04:00:00

personally if riding a sport bike was anything like sbk2k, id be dead.
Peter Ive

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by Peter Ive » Fri, 10 Mar 2000 04:00:00



I think the only possible way we could get what we want is to get
together and put our money into a big pot and pay someone to do it for
us.  Unfortunately, I don't think that there are enough of us here to do
it, though I would be willing to stump up 50 to get the ball rolling.

At my reckoning, there must be at least 1000 of us *** sim fans
around the world.  So, 1000 * 50 each = 50,000.  Hey, it's a start. :)
--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)

No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Ace

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by Ace » Fri, 10 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Great Idea! I'd even be willing to do some sandwiches and tea

>I think the only possible way we could get what we want is to get
>together and put our money into a big pot and pay someone to do it for
>us.  Unfortunately, I don't think that there are enough of us here to do
>it, though I would be willing to stump up 50 to get the ball rolling.

>At my reckoning, there must be at least 1000 of us *** sim fans
>around the world.  So, 1000 * 50 each = 50,000.  Hey, it's a start. :)
>--
>Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)

>No person's opinions can be said to be
>more correct than another's, because each is
>the sole judge of his or her own experience.

c

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by c » Fri, 10 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Well, what I was mainly referring to was the 'dumbing down' I felt they did
to SBK2000 as compared to the last version.  Using wheelies as an example,
in (I'll call it SBK98), if you cranked the gas while not tucking in first
or second gear the wheel would come shooting up, and if you didn't let off
quick would flip right over.  And when you did let off, it came shootin'
right back down.  To carry a wheelie down the straight took _much_ practice
and a deft touch to keep it up in the air, but not up and over.  In this
respect, the physics were _somewhat_ realistic.  If you let off the gas
completely in a wheelie, gravity will do its work (with a little help from
inertia) and bring it right back down to earth.
In SBK2000 even if you load up the front suspension with the brakes, then
quicky jam on the gas (even in first gear!) and simultaneously sit up in the
seat, the front wheel laaaazily works its way up in the air, and the only
way to flip it is to keep the gas cranked all through first gear until it
eventually flips over.
And keep in mind, this is with FULL realism and NO help.
So it seems they've made the game much more forgiving (ie: 'dumbed it
down'), so as to avoid all those *** reviews from reviewers with very
short attention spans.
This is all fine and dandy for the average arcader, they'll probably love
it, but for the hard-core simmer I'm afraid it didn't live up to my
expectations (having played the previous version).

It was this fact that led me to my main point, which was:
WE WILL NEVER, AND I SAY NEVER, SEE ANOTHER GAME LIKE GRANDPRIX LEGENDS.
Which I know has been said many times before, in many different ways,
regarding many different reasons, but this is just another piece of proof to
toss on the pile.

I found the 98 version much more challenging, so if that's what is to your
liking, than maybe you should check out the demo, if not, than SBK2000 looks
like a pretty game, enjoy!

speed racer

ps: I did only play it for around 15 min., I'm sure its an awesome game, I'm
just complaining about the physics - Like we always do! :)


> Pardon my ignorance... I'm new to motorbike sims... But what's actually
wrong
> with SBK2000? And is the original game really any better? I'm thinking of
> downloading this 50MB monster to check it out based on *your* opinion. All
the
> other opinions I've ever heard about Superbike World Championship (from EA
> Sports/Milestone/released in '98, I think... that's what you're referring
to,
> right? With the "superbike 99" reference?) is that it was more arcadish
than
> anything else.

> --
> -----------------------------------
> Morgan Vincent Wooten

> http://www.racesimcentral.net/~morganv/
> -----------------------------------



> > Yes, I have almost absolute proof that we will all be playing GPL for
> > several more years, and not some cool, new, racing sim.  I say this
because
> > of Superbike 2000.  It sucks.  Big.  Much worse than 99 (which I liked).
> > What sucks so much about it is that they majorly dumbed it down.  Even
with
> > FULL realism and NO help, I can walk a 6 gear wheelie with almost no
effort,
> > even through a chicane or two...  It's ridiculous!!!
> > So my assumption is.... Everyone complained that superbike 99 was way
too
> > hard, so they made it easier (lamer) for all the yokels out there...

> > And you think someone's going to make a car sim like GPL again??

> >         Ha!

> > SpeedRacer

Michael Youn

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by Michael Youn » Sat, 11 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Huh? Didn't Kraemer already do this with GPL? I can't tell if this was your
point or not. :-)

Michael.




> I think the only possible way we could get what we want is to get
> together and put our money into a big pot and pay someone to do it for
> us.  Unfortunately, I don't think that there are enough of us here to do
> it, though I would be willing to stump up 50 to get the ball rolling.

> At my reckoning, there must be at least 1000 of us *** sim fans
> around the world.  So, 1000 * 50 each = 50,000.  Hey, it's a start. :)
> --
> Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)

> No person's opinions can be said to be
> more correct than another's, because each is
> the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Morgan VW

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by Morgan VW » Sat, 11 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Well, good physics are the main thing I want. Only problem is I don't have
anything to judge them against. I haven't ridden a bike since I was little kid
and even then it was just a little child's version of a moped. And I just
started playing these motorbike sims (GP500, SBK2000) so I don't have much to
go by there either. Even if SBK2000 isn't perfect it's still fun, regardless. I
just don't want to be known as an "arcade racer". :)

--
-----------------------------------
Morgan Vincent Wooten

http://www.racesimcentral.net/~morganv/
-----------------------------------


Ian

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by Ian » Sat, 11 Mar 2000 04:00:00

IMO, we will never get a realistic bike sim for the PC, the reason is that a
bike is steered in a totally different way from any other wheeled vehicle. A
PC steering wheel will mimic the inputs required to drive a car, only thing
missing is the actual forces acting on the body. With bikes, most of the
steering is done by body weight shifting and very little movement to the
handlebars, so PC handlebars are unrealistic. The nearest we could get are
the sit on bike systems you get in an arcade, but even these leave a lot to
be desired as when you are leant over on a real bike, the cornering force
will try to push the bike and you back to centre. The sit on bike could have
a centering spring to push the bike back but you would still be*** off
the side with no forces pushing you back up.
I have tried many bike sims and arcade bike games, nothing comes even
remotely close to the feel of riding a real bike.
A bike is ridden more by feel than what you see, therefore an accurate sim
is (IMO) impossible.

If I had to choose a bike sim though, my pick would be GP500, I just can't
give a reason why ;) BTW I haven't tried SBK 2000.

--
Ian Parker

UKGPL League
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
==

Jan Verschuere

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by Jan Verschuere » Sat, 11 Mar 2000 04:00:00

The simulations aren't that bad... they mimic real life for me. Both on the
road and on the PC I drive bikes like a granny. ;-)

Jan.
----

Ace

Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

by Ace » Sun, 12 Mar 2000 04:00:00

That is precisley the point I brought up the other day (I think it was on a
different thread), that due to limitations in the controllers available,
Bike sims will never be *that* realistic, unless you have a mock-up bike in
front of the PC, as you say, with a way to simulate the forces acting on the
bike and rider.  I don't think there'll be too many takers on that one.


>IMO, we will never get a realistic bike sim for the PC, the reason is that
a
>bike is steered in a totally different way from any other wheeled vehicle.
A
>PC steering wheel will mimic the inputs required to drive a car, only thing
>missing is the actual forces acting on the body. With bikes, most of the
>steering is done by body weight shifting and very little movement to the
>handlebars, so PC handlebars are unrealistic. The nearest we could get are
>the sit on bike systems you get in an arcade, but even these leave a lot to
>be desired as when you are leant over on a real bike, the cornering force
>will try to push the bike and you back to centre. The sit on bike could
have
>a centering spring to push the bike back but you would still be*** off
>the side with no forces pushing you back up.
>I have tried many bike sims and arcade bike games, nothing comes even
>remotely close to the feel of riding a real bike.
>A bike is ridden more by feel than what you see, therefore an accurate sim
>is (IMO) impossible.

>If I had to choose a bike sim though, my pick would be GP500, I just can't
>give a reason why ;) BTW I haven't tried SBK 2000.

>--
>Ian Parker

>UKGPL League
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>==


>> Well, good physics are the main thing I want. Only problem is I don't
have
>> anything to judge them against. I haven't ridden a bike since I was
little
>kid
>> and even then it was just a little child's version of a moped. And I just
>> started playing these motorbike sims (GP500, SBK2000) so I don't have
much
>to
>> go by there either. Even if SBK2000 isn't perfect it's still fun,
>regardless. I
>> just don't want to be known as an "arcade racer". :)


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