Why make people PAY for a full version??? I hope somebody brings out
a free one. Could Some anonymous person post the full thing?
Please Dont email Me with it
Why make people PAY for a full version??? I hope somebody brings out
a free one. Could Some anonymous person post the full thing?
Please Dont email Me with it
> Why make people PAY for a full version???
Joe
This just isn't true. He is not creating tracks, banners, graphics etc.
He is just converting tracks supplied
by Papyrus and presumably already come with appropriate copyrights,
aggreements etc. There is
only copyright risks if the program creates new banners etc. which might
require the authorization of
the company which owns any logos etc. being represented. In this case, no
such thing is occuring.
Why is this such a big deal ? Gerhard's convertors never received such
legal scrutiny.
/THansen
On Mon, 19 May 1997 16:06:42 -0500, Gary Woods Family
>> Why make people PAY for a full version???
>I looked at the site with the ICR2-N2 converter the other day and the
>gentleman that made it said that he makes you pay for it for liability
>reasons. My question is if he is making money from the thing isn't he
>more liable?
> Nathan Woods
If there are any ATTORNEYS out there that have a better understanding
of this issue, feel free to correct me, but this is my understanding
of the situation from my schooling to date.
>>> Why make people PAY for a full version???
>>I looked at the site with the ICR2-N2 converter the other day and the
>>gentleman that made it said that he makes you pay for it for liability
>>reasons. My question is if he is making money from the thing isn't he
>>more liable?
>> Nathan Woods
>I posted earlier on this subject. Keep in mind I'm not an attorney and
>do not offer the following as legal advice (I SURE could charge for
>that in a few months). Papyrus/Sierra, and the individual track owners
>hold respective intellectual property rights to their products. It
>seems to me that by manipulating Sierra code, he is infringing their
>copyright. Further, he is definitely infringing the IP rights that the
>track owners have. IP protection involves the right to EXCLUDE. This
>means that Sierra and the respective track owners have the right not
>to have their tracks converted. Now, whether a company will come after
>you depends on a lot of things, including whether you make any money
>on it. A company like Sierra is much more likely to come after someone
>who's charging for this converter than someone who is not. The reasons
>should be obvious. Now, the fact that Dave created this converter also
>gives him IP protection in his program (this means others can't
>distribute or sell it), but Sierra's copyright means he can't sell his
>product without their permission (usually in the form of a license).
>If there are any ATTORNEYS out there that have a better understanding
>of this issue, feel free to correct me, but this is my understanding
>of the situation from my schooling to date.
You point out a valid issue, which is that the licenses for the various
track likenesses, logos and trademarks were likely issued for a specific
product, namely ICR2. By converting the tracks for use in N2, the license
that Papyrus executed is probably being violated.
However, neither Mr. Noonan, nor any user of his converter program are a
direct party to these agreements, and unless the ICR2 user license is
written very carefully, it is unlikely that converting the tracks for use
with N2 is excluded.
Another grey area: I assume that the converter must make a copy of the
copyrighted material in the track and place it in the N2 directory. This is
in itself might be a violation of the user agreement, depending on how it
is worded.
The fact that Mr. Noonan may or may not be making money on the converter
has absolutely no bearing on the case, other than deciding how damages
might be awarded. In the eyes of the law, whether you sell it or give it
away, copyright infringement is still copyright infringement.
With regard to Mr. Noonan's request for compensation, he is certainly
within his right to do so. However, as a shareware author myself once, I
can tell you he won't be retiring on the income. If he's really lucky, he
might pay back some of the $500 or so he spent on the compiler he used to
write the program. But I seriously doubt it.
As to those of you who have complained about the registration fee, that
probably irks me more than anything else. How many of you volunteer your
time to do things to help the racing sim community? It's funny that the
people who do volunteer the most (Michael and Marc, for example) are also
the first to defend Mr. Noonan's right to charge for his program.
Dave Sparks
IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars
Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html
Hawaii Handle: davids
[Much legal speculation cut]
: > If there are any ATTORNEYS out there that have a better understanding
: > of this issue, feel free to correct me, but this is my understanding
: > of the situation from my schooling to date.
:
: This just isn't true. He is not creating tracks, banners, graphics etc.
: He is just converting tracks supplied
: by Papyrus and presumably already come with appropriate copyrights,
: aggreements etc. There is
: only copyright risks if the program creates new banners etc. which might
: require the authorization of
: the company which owns any logos etc. being represented. In this case,
no
: such thing is occuring.
:
: Why is this such a big deal ? Gerhard's convertors never received such
: legal scrutiny.
:
: /THansen
:
Does anyone out there >>BUT<< attorneys really care? I think that
the attorneys are the problem to begin with. Too damn many of them!
-Dirt-
I know something he may not have thought about by charging for the
converter. If he makes money has he tought about having to pay taxes for
the money he makes. I don't know the laws where he lives but you can get in
trouble if you make over a certain amount and don't file it. If he has
figured on this then if he still wants to make money off it then good for
him. All the power to him.....
>--Jaguar/Light Speed
>>Why make people PAY for a full version??? I hope somebody brings out
>>a free one. Could Some anonymous person post the full thing?
>>Please Dont email Me with it
Jag I'm surprised at you thats Piracy.
Hey I'm a webmaster and I'm thinking to buy
I can remember when Papyrus contacted you and told you that you had
to take My tracks off your page as well as Alex's. Then You E-mailed
me wanting to know why I hadn't told you that you were in trouble of
copyright infringement.
Actually I assumed that you already knew that but in any case you do
now. I honestly dont think you want to post tracks to you page and
have to deal with that again. When Papyrus aksed me to take my tracks
off my page I complied with theyre wishes and gave them my word to
never post another track on my page. I intend to stick by that and If
you dont then be prepared to reap the whirlwind.
Skarekrow
http://www.mindspring.com/~skarekrw
I looked at the site with the ICR2-N2 converter the other day and the
gentleman that made it said that he makes you pay for it for liability
reasons. My question is if he is making money from the thing isn't he
more liable? Nathan Woods <
That sounds like major league BS to me. I would think Sierra would be
much more likely to care since he is making money, but they probably don't
really care anyways.
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Jason Nichols-Commissioner
SportSim Football League:
http://www.shreve.net/~taylorj/Football/
SSFL Information Center:
http://members.aol.com/jn141414/ssfl.html
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What, are you having some kind of track pirating party or something??
And you wonder why people with track editing tools don't want to give
those tools to others...