rec.autos.simulators

Lets have a talk about vsync (CRT)

Steve Simpso

Lets have a talk about vsync (CRT)

by Steve Simpso » Tue, 22 Feb 2005 21:08:58

Even the fastest LCDs change their state so slowly that you can't even
notice the refresh rate.  At least you don't need to worry about flicker...

Mitch_

Lets have a talk about vsync (CRT)

by Mitch_ » Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:30:08

We were having a conversation in another thread about monitors and refresh
rates and the related topic of vsync came up.  The prevailing sentiment has
always been to turn it off.  My argument has always been thats an incorrect
blanket statement.  Vsync is completely system dependent as well as API
dependent.  Its been a few years but IIRC OGL didnt even support vsync (one
of the reason Carmack uses OGL).

Most of the true simmers here have decent rigs with decent monitors very
capable of running high refresh rates (monitor) and high framerates.  

With vsync on frames are in sync with the refresh rate of your monitor 1 to
1 so to speak.  With vsync off your framerate isnt limited to your monitors
refresh rate.  Graphic anomalies are the byproduct.  Tearing is the most
common but you also get frames twice frames skipped from being displayed on
the monitor etc.  In some game like FPS's you may want the higher Framerate
at the expense of some graphics anomalies.  In Racing Sims I want the
stability vsync introduces.  Not only does the picture looks better but
turning vsync on also reduces eyestrain in those long runs and beyond that
you arent really gaining anything with it off anyway on most systems.

Mitch
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fredrickso

Lets have a talk about vsync (CRT)

by fredrickso » Tue, 22 Feb 2005 22:30:56


> We were having a conversation in another thread about monitors and refresh
> rates and the related topic of vsync came up.  The prevailing sentiment has
> always been to turn it off.  My argument has always been thats an incorrect
> blanket statement.  Vsync is completely system dependent as well as API
> dependent.  Its been a few years but IIRC OGL didnt even support vsync (one
> of the reason Carmack uses OGL).

> Most of the true simmers here have decent rigs with decent monitors very
> capable of running high refresh rates (monitor) and high framerates.  

> With vsync on frames are in sync with the refresh rate of your monitor 1 to
> 1 so to speak.  With vsync off your framerate isnt limited to your monitors
> refresh rate.  Graphic anomalies are the byproduct.  Tearing is the most
> common but you also get frames twice frames skipped from being displayed on
> the monitor etc.  In some game like FPS's you may want the higher Framerate
> at the expense of some graphics anomalies.  In Racing Sims I want the
> stability vsync introduces.  Not only does the picture looks better but
> turning vsync on also reduces eyestrain in those long runs and beyond that
> you arent really gaining anything with it off anyway on most systems.

> Mitch

Vsync more of a benchmark utility than anything else.  For years Ive just
 >> sat back and laughed at all the morons that think vsysnc is some sort of
 >> magic frame rate tool.  Its not, and on a modern PC that is setup
 >> correctly nobody should run vsync as the image quality suffers and you
 >> dont gain a thing.
 >>
 >>
 >> Mitch
Steve Simpso

Lets have a talk about vsync (CRT)

by Steve Simpso » Tue, 22 Feb 2005 19:12:23

Well, you're dead right.  If your graphics card is running at 100Hz and your
system's  fast enough to manage 100fps constantly then you'd be crazy not to
enable vsync.  There's also a lot to be said for setting your refresh rate
to 60Hz and enabling vsync (again assuming your system is capable of staying
above 60fps in the game you're playing)  The wonderful smoothness provided
by vsync more than makes up for the flickery refresh rate.  Another option
if you've got a very high end monitor is to set it to 120Hz and lock the
frame rate to just above 60fps (asssuming the game allows this) which will
effectively show each frame for exactly 2 refreshes of the monitor (similar
to what a 120Hz TV does)

The problem is that most of us are usually running cutting edge sims on
slightly less than cutting edge hardware which finds it difficult to keep
the fps up to the monitor's refresh rate. In those scenarios, turning off
vsync is almost always the best option.  Having your frame rate fluctuate
between 60fps and 30fps, for example, can be very disconcerting.

I think it's been said here before, but vsync is really the icing on the
cake for high end PCs.

Poor old LCD owners can skip this thread.....  ;-)

Mitch_

Lets have a talk about vsync (CRT)

by Mitch_ » Tue, 22 Feb 2005 19:30:03


> Poor old LCD owners can skip this thread.....  ;-)

Can you or nayone expand on the relationship of LCD's response time to a
CRTs refresh rate?  Up till recently LCD's were still too high a premium vs
equivalent size CRT but times they are a changing and I havent done any
research on LCDs yet so what better opportunity than the present ;)

Mitch
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Mitch_

Lets have a talk about vsync (CRT)

by Mitch_ » Wed, 23 Feb 2005 02:50:36



>> We were having a conversation in another thread about monitors and
>> refresh
>> rates and the related topic of vsync came up.  The prevailing sentiment
>> has
>> always been to turn it off.  My argument has always been thats an
>> incorrect
>> blanket statement.  Vsync is completely system dependent as well as API
>> dependent.  Its been a few years but IIRC OGL didnt even support vsync
>> (one of the reason Carmack uses OGL).

>> Most of the true simmers here have decent rigs with decent monitors very
>> capable of running high refresh rates (monitor) and high framerates.

>> With vsync on frames are in sync with the refresh rate of your monitor 1
>> to
>> 1 so to speak.  With vsync off your framerate isnt limited to your
>> monitors
>> refresh rate.  Graphic anomalies are the byproduct.  Tearing is the most
>> common but you also get frames twice frames skipped from being displayed
>> on
>> the monitor etc.  In some game like FPS's you may want the higher
>> Framerate
>> at the expense of some graphics anomalies.  In Racing Sims I want the
>> stability vsync introduces.  Not only does the picture looks better but
>> turning vsync on also reduces eyestrain in those long runs and beyond
>> that you arent really gaining anything with it off anyway on most
>> systems.

>> Mitch

> Vsync more of a benchmark utility than anything else.  For years Ive just
>  >> sat back and laughed at all the morons that think vsysnc is some sort
>  >> of
>  >> magic frame rate tool.  Its not, and on a modern PC that is setup
>  >> correctly nobody should run vsync as the image quality suffers and you
>  >> dont gain a thing.

>  >> Mitch

Dude youre such a moronic retard.

If you had any reading skill at all you could clearly see that all of my
arguments fully support the better image quality of vsync on.  I forget one
"off" and somehow you keep pointing to this one slip as proof of something
beyond what it was.

Again, were going to meet one Day Larry Bakesmith and your going to be one
sad little *** when it happens...

Mitch

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MadDAW

Lets have a talk about vsync (CRT)

by MadDAW » Wed, 23 Feb 2005 06:59:33

I have found that running Vsync also cuts down on the eye strain as well.
After 12 hours in front of a computer for work and then only wanting to
"play" when I get home makes for many hours in front of the tube.

MadDAWG

Mitch_

Lets have a talk about vsync (CRT)

by Mitch_ » Wed, 23 Feb 2005 07:49:28


> After 12 hours in front of a computer for work and then only wanting to
> "play" when I get home makes for many hours in front of the tube.

> MadDAWG

I think Ive got scan line retina burn in.  I close my eyes to sleep at night
and all I see are those pesky bars, like when a TV camera records a vga
screen, that slow line that rolls up.  I also have problems with 60hz
flourencent lights dammit.  My eyes do the shake and shimy for a half hour
after I leave the room ;)  My dad was right, it sucks to get old :)

Mitch
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JTS

Lets have a talk about vsync (CRT)

by JTS » Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:16:29



>>After 12 hours in front of a computer for work and then only wanting to
>>"play" when I get home makes for many hours in front of the tube.

>>MadDAWG

> I think Ive got scan line retina burn in.  I close my eyes to sleep at night
> and all I see are those pesky bars, like when a TV camera records a vga
> screen, that slow line that rolls up.  I also have problems with 60hz
> flourencent lights dammit.  My eyes do the shake and shimy for a half hour
> after I leave the room ;)  My dad was right, it sucks to get old :)

It sucks even worse not to get old!

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