rec.autos.simulators

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

Rok And

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by Rok And » Wed, 08 Jan 1997 04:00:00

Does anyone know how does car aerodynamics (Ford, Chevy,...) influence
on your car?

Lisa and Jimmy McKinle

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by Lisa and Jimmy McKinle » Wed, 08 Jan 1997 04:00:00


> Does anyone know how does car aerodynamics (Ford, Chevy,...) influence
> on your car?

  Chevys are better on superspeedways, because of nose design.  Ford
Thunderbirds are better on the short tracks due to their slightly
shorter wheelbase.
Nick Totor

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by Nick Totor » Wed, 08 Jan 1997 04:00:00



> > Does anyone know how does car aerodynamics (Ford, Chevy,...) influence
> > on your car?

>   Chevys are better on superspeedways, because of nose design.  Ford
> Thunderbirds are better on the short tracks due to their slightly
> shorter wheelbase.

     In Winston Cup racing, all the cars have the same wheelbase, which
is 110 inches.
     Nick
--
______________________________________________________________

#6 & #94 in the quest for the Cup!
My home away from home... http://www.mindspring.com/~ntotoro/
______________________________________________________________

Mike Marshal

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by Mike Marshal » Wed, 08 Jan 1997 04:00:00




> : > Does anyone know how does car aerodynamics (Ford, Chevy,...) influence
> : > on your car?
> :   Chevys are better on superspeedways, because of nose design.  Ford
> : Thunderbirds are better on the short tracks due to their slightly
> : shorter wheelbase.

> After tweaking my Chevy Monte Carlo for Taladega, I tried the same set up
> with the Pontiac. Immediately I gained close to 1 mile an hour at that
> track. Quite a difference, but not sure exactly why. I certainly don't
> slide up the banking when going into turn 3 at 206 as easily as in the
> Chevy. It's like the Pontiacs have some extra down force without
> sacrificing as much speed.  I don't think it would hurt the game if
> Papyrus would explain exactly how they designed the differences into the
> cars.  Or maybe Jim S. already talked about it and I missed it. Something
> to add to the FAQ for sure.  Anybody else?

> Matt

I second this notion.  Let's hear it!

Mike

M. HA

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by M. HA » Wed, 08 Jan 1997 04:00:00


: > Does anyone know how does car aerodynamics (Ford, Chevy,...) influence
: > on your car?
:   Chevys are better on superspeedways, because of nose design.  Ford
: Thunderbirds are better on the short tracks due to their slightly
: shorter wheelbase.

After tweaking my Chevy Monte Carlo for Taladega, I tried the same set up
with the Pontiac. Immediately I gained close to 1 mile an hour at that
track. Quite a difference, but not sure exactly why. I certainly don't
slide up the banking when going into turn 3 at 206 as easily as in the
Chevy. It's like the Pontiacs have some extra down force without
sacrificing as much speed.  I don't think it would hurt the game if
Papyrus would explain exactly how they designed the differences into the
cars.  Or maybe Jim S. already talked about it and I missed it. Something
to add to the FAQ for sure.  Anybody else?

Matt

Jim Sokolo

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by Jim Sokolo » Thu, 09 Jan 1997 04:00:00

On Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:22:09 -0500, Mike Marshall



>> [Question about aerodynamics of the cars in N2]
>I second this notion.  Let's hear it!

I wasn't ignoring this thread, I just didn't know the answer off the
top of my head. (And I *sometimes* like to find out the answer before
I spout off... Sometimes.)

The engines are all identical.
The aerodynamic "efficiencies" are all identical.
The differences in aerodynamics are solely in regards to the balance
of downforce front vs rear. Ford has the most aerodynamic front
downforce, Chevy the most aerodynamic rear downforce, and Pontiac is a
more balanced downforce body.

The reason some setups will work better on some chassis is the
combination of suspension settings and aerodynamics. (A suspension
setup which might be a little tight and bind the car up too much on a
Chevy might loosen up just enough on one of the other makes to be
faster. Likewise, a Ford setup that works well at Martinsville might
push too badly on a Chevy...)

The car makes are close enough in the game that a driver could win
with any of them. (I won't get into whether that's really the case on
Sunday Winston Cup racing in this newsgroup... ;-) )

---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

David Spark

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by David Spark » Thu, 09 Jan 1997 04:00:00


Jim responded, so I won't add more, but I did add this information to the
FAQ a few days ago. I wasn't sure about the info on drag efficiencies at
the time, but I've added that since.

Dave Sparks
IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html
Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html
Hawaii Handle: davids

Mike Radl

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by Mike Radl » Thu, 09 Jan 1997 04:00:00

Regarding different chassis in Nascar2

Do you know if this is also true in Nascar1. Since NRO won't be out for a
while I'm still looking for speed on Hawaii. Guess I could just try it  :-)

Mike Radler

Jim Sokolo

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by Jim Sokolo » Fri, 10 Jan 1997 04:00:00



>Regarding different chassis in Nascar2

>>The engines are all identical.
>>The aerodynamic "efficiencies" are all identical.
>>The differences in aerodynamics are solely in regards to the balance
>>of downforce front vs rear. Ford has the most aerodynamic front
>>downforce, Chevy the most aerodynamic rear downforce, and Pontiac is a
>>more balanced downforce body.

>Do you know if this is also true in Nascar1. Since NRO won't be out for a
>while I'm still looking for speed on Hawaii. Guess I could just try it  :-)

The same statements are true for NASCAR 1...

---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Michael E. Carve

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by Michael E. Carve » Fri, 10 Jan 1997 04:00:00


<another excellent response snipped>

I once again want to thank Jim for taking the time to keep us a*** on
NASCAR2.  It's not often that one finds this kind of attention from
someone attached to a software or hardware company.  It think it adds to
the enjoyment of their product and shows those who don't have the product
what kind of support they can expect.  Also, it's just a delight to get
some insights from someone who worked on the "inside" of a product.

Thanks Jim, and don't let the turkeys get you down...

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Robert Huggi

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by Robert Huggi » Fri, 10 Jan 1997 04:00:00


>The aerodynamic "efficiencies" are all identical.
>The differences in aerodynamics are solely in regards to the balance
>of downforce front vs rear. Ford has the most aerodynamic front
>downforce, Chevy the most aerodynamic rear downforce, and Pontiac is a
>more balanced downforce body.

Sorry to be the slow one.... But I do not understand this at all.
Can you please re-phrase this and use more words and maybe an example?

"Ford has the most aerodynamic front downforce"
Does a more "aerodynamic" front mean it flows through the air with the
least resistance and therefore provides the least amount of downforce?

If I am using a ford setup and I have maximized the rear spoiler, will
moving to a chevy setup give me more rear downforce?  

If I am using a chevy setup and I have maximized the rear spoiler,
will moving to a ford setup give me more rear downforce?  

If I am using a ford setup and I have all the weight to the rear, will
moving to a chevy setup give me more rear "weight?"  

If I am using a chevy setup and I have all the weight to the rear,
will moving to a ford setup give me more rear "weight?"  

I suspect I am confusing terms here, so please explain.

I also want to thank Jim for all the informative posts!
--
Best Wishes!!!
Robert Huggins
Raleigh, NC

BillJZ

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by BillJZ » Sat, 11 Jan 1997 04:00:00

Yes...


using AOL because of school vacation!

Jim Sokolo

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by Jim Sokolo » Sat, 11 Jan 1997 04:00:00




>Sorry to be the slow one.... But I do not understand this at all.
>Can you please re-phrase this and use more words and maybe an example?

Sure.

This means that the Ford body shape has more downforce due to the
airflow over the car than the other body shapes.

No, pretty much the exact opposite.

Moving from a Ford body style (chassis) to a Chevy body style will do
that (at the expense of less front downforce)

No, it will give you less, but it will give you more front downforce.

Doesn't have anything to do with mass, but it will place more aero
load on the rear tires than you had with the Ford setup.

In general, all other things being exactly equal, and the car running
at a decent speed (so that aerodynamic flow is important), a Ford will
be the "loosest", the Pontiac middle, and the Chevy tightest. However,
changing car body styles is not an alternative to learning how to use
the garage... :-)

---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

David Spark

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by David Spark » Mon, 13 Jan 1997 04:00:00



>>The aerodynamic "efficiencies" are all identical.
>>The differences in aerodynamics are solely in regards to the balance
>>of downforce front vs rear. Ford has the most aerodynamic front
>>downforce, Chevy the most aerodynamic rear downforce, and Pontiac is a
>>more balanced downforce body.

>Sorry to be the slow one.... But I do not understand this at all.
>Can you please re-phrase this and use more words and maybe an example?

>"Ford has the most aerodynamic front downforce"
>Does a more "aerodynamic" front mean it flows through the air with the
>least resistance and therefore provides the least amount of downforce?

Actually, more aerodynamic front downforce means that the shape of the body
creates more downforce on the front tires. The force is created by air
pushing on the body, which in turn, slows the car down. What Jim said was
that the all 3 bodies have the same "aerodynamic inefficiences", meaning
that they all have the same coefficient of drag, provided that the spoiler
settings are identical. It's just that the downforce is applied differently
from car to car. If you use a Chevy, you will have more rear downforce,
therefore better traction on the rear tires. The Ford is the opposite, with
better traction on the front tires. The Pontiac has equal downforce front
and rear.

Yes.

No.

No.

No.

Don't confuse rear weight with rear downforce.

Me, too!

Dave Sparks
IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html
Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html
Hawaii Handle: davids

David Spark

Car Engines-Aerodynamics

by David Spark » Mon, 13 Jan 1997 04:00:00



>>The aerodynamic "efficiencies" are all identical.
>>The differences in aerodynamics are solely in regards to the balance
>>of downforce front vs rear. Ford has the most aerodynamic front
>>downforce, Chevy the most aerodynamic rear downforce, and Pontiac is a
>>more balanced downforce body.

>Sorry to be the slow one.... But I do not understand this at all.
>Can you please re-phrase this and use more words and maybe an example?

>"Ford has the most aerodynamic front downforce"
>Does a more "aerodynamic" front mean it flows through the air with the
>least resistance and therefore provides the least amount of downforce?

Actually, more aerodynamic front downforce means that the shape of the body
creates more downforce on the front tires. The force is created by air
pushing on the body, which in turn, slows the car down. What Jim said was
that the all 3 bodies have the same "aerodynamic inefficiences", meaning
that they all have the same coefficient of drag, provided that the spoiler
settings are identical. It's just that the downforce is applied differently
from car to car. If you use a Chevy, you will have more rear downforce,
therefore better traction on the rear tires. The Ford is the opposite, with
better traction on the front tires. The Pontiac has equal downforce front
and rear.

Yes.

No.

No.

No.

Don't confuse rear weight with rear downforce.

Me, too!

Dave Sparks
IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html
Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html
Hawaii Handle: davids


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