rec.autos.simulators

I purchased Nascar 2 when it was first released and think it is just great.
But I have had a persistant and fatal problem since day 1.  Any suggestions
that can correct this problem would be greatly appreciated.

I have a Pentium 133 w/32M EDO RAM, AWARD BIOS 4.50PG, 256KB PB Cache,
430FX chipset, PCI bus v2.1, Intergraph Reactor (v.74 & v.79 BIOS),
Thrustmaster T2 wheel/pedals, CH Gamecard 3, and SB AWE32 (non PnP version).
I have a full installation of the game to my hard drive.

The problem is that the game will bomb me out and reboot my pc.  It has
never happened during testing or warmups, but only during the actual race.
It happens so much, that it is a very rare occasion in which I can finish a
30% race at Talladega.  I haven't raced much on any of the other tracks
other than Talladega, so I don't know for sure if it happens on those tracks
or not. (Hey, like most novice drivrs, I'm only decent on Talladega!)  When
the computer locks up, the hard drive light will come on a couple of quick
times and then the screen freezes for about 1.5-2 seconds and then my pc
reboots.  It always occurs like this.  It has happened when I was racing by
myself in a corner or on the straights, when I was in traffic in a corner
and on the straights, and even when under caution.  It has occured within
the first few laps of a race and in the 15th lap of the race.  This problem
has frustrated me to no end and it has made it so I no longer wish to keep
this game on my computer because the game is just unplayable due to it
constantly bombing out and rebooting my pc.  I'd really like to figure it
out since this is a good game.

I do use the Rendition version of the game.  I have run the game with and
without the -DMA switch.  I have tried v.74 and v.79 of Intergraphs BIOS. I
have gone thru my computers BIOS settings one at a time and made changes. I
have run the game under Windows 95 and rebooting to stand alone DOS.  I have
tried with EMM386.EXE and without.  I have a Microsoft serial mouse and have
tried a different versions of mouse drivers for it.  I have tried with and
without SMARTDRIVE.EXE loaded thinking that since the hard drive light
always flashes BEFORE the screen freezes maybe the game is needing to dump
the replay to disk or something.  I have 100M free space on my hard drive.
I've scanned my hard drive for errors using Norton Utilities 2.0 for Win95
and defragged using Norton Speedisk.  (I do not have Win95b and therefore do
not have FAT32.)  I have tried numerous CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT
configurations.

I have reinstalled the game to a different drive and directory.  I have run
the game with and without the CD in the CD drive.  I am at my wits end as to
why this problem is occuring and what to do to correct it!  I had previously
posted a message on Sierra's tech support board several months ago, but they
were unable to provide any direction or assistance.  I have loaded the
patch, but this did not help.  This problem has occured since day 1 and for
over 5 months now this is the only game I have that gives me trouble. (A lot
of trouble!)

The only thing I can think of that is happening is that the replay recorder
has filled up my RAM and needs to dump something to disk.  But that's just a
guess.  (Is there a way to turn of the recorder to test this?)

I am hopeful that someone out there has had this problem too and has somehow
found a solution!

Regards,

Keith Hemmelman

Do you have the problem if you run Nascar2.exe rather than the Rendition
enhanced version? I'm guessing you do. I'm also assuming you've tried
loading the newest drivers for the Intense 3d card. (I also doubt that
is where the problem is)

Since you say you've tried various autoexec-config.sys setups you may
have already done this BUT I'll mention it anyway:
After the BIOS sreen info and either right before 'or' when your system
reports "Starting Windows" press the F8 key...this should bring you to a
'clean' DOS prompt (Nothing will be loaded). Now start the program thru
DOS and see if the problem occurs. You'll probably need to manually load
your Mouse driver first, before you can start the game.

Have you tried running setup and selecting 'No soundcard'? You might try
that and see if that eliminates the problem. If it does it would tell
you that the problem has to do with your soundcard and some type of
conflict. Possibly Win95 has your soundcard IRQ/DMA/Address set up
differently than the game is configuring it. You can see where Win95 set
up your card in the 'Device Manager', 'Sound Card' properties screen.
Compare those numbers to what Nascar2 was using.

If the Soundcard has a utility called "Config.exe" or something similar
that you can run from DOS, you can check and see what IRQ/DMA/Addresses
the card is setting up for itself. Make sure that the game, Win95, AND
the Card's own setup settings are the same.

Just some thoughts..hope they help!

You might also try my 'links' page and see if you can find anything
useful (especially in the 'Troubleshooting' section.

Good Luck,
Alan
http://www.kiva.net/~akh/simshop.html

<SNIP>
Another thought is a bad SIMM... You might try removing a pair and
trying the game. If it still happens trade the SIMMS with the ones you
pulled in the first place. Try again.

And for a clean boot to straight to DOS I think it is 'shift F5'...for
sure it is once you use F8. At the screen that pops up after pressing
F8, rather than selecting a number, just hit 'shift F5'.

Alan
http://www.kiva.net/~akh/simshop.html

: I purchased Nascar 2 when it was first released and think it is just great.
: But I have had a persistant and fatal problem since day 1.  Any suggestions
: that can correct this problem would be greatly appreciated.

<snip>
: The problem is that the game will bomb me out and reboot my pc.  It has
: never happened during testing or warmups, but only during the actual race.
: It happens so much, that it is a very rare occasion in which I can finish a
: 30% race at Talladega.  I haven't raced much on any of the other tracks
: other than Talladega, so I don't know for sure if it happens on those tracks
: or not. (Hey, like most novice drivrs, I'm only decent on Talladega!)  When
: the computer locks up, the hard drive light will come on a couple of quick
: times and then the screen freezes for about 1.5-2 seconds and then my pc
: reboots.  It always occurs like this.  It has happened when I was racing by
: myself in a corner or on the straights, when I was in traffic in a corner
: and on the straights, and even when under caution.  It has occured within
: the first few laps of a race and in the 15th lap of the race.  This problem
: has frustrated me to no end and it has made it so I no longer wish to keep
: this game on my computer because the game is just unplayable due to it
: constantly bombing out and rebooting my pc.  I'd really like to figure it
: out since this is a good game.

<snip>

The only thing I can think of is that you have some bad spot in one of
your memory chips.  This memory location may never be accessed until
you push it to the max with the "replay".  Find a good memory tester
program and run it over night.  Sometimes this will not show anything
but there still could be a problem with your motherboard and the brand
of memory.  I've heard of this happening alot with Win NT.  Systems that
always worked fine until the upgrade to NT and WHAM, it locks up with
the "blue screen of death".

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Thanks for the suggestions, but I've tried all that and more.  I hadn't been
using the plain NASCAR2.EXE and tried it.  It didn't lock up. I don't know
if that was just one of those nights it worked or what, but I'll try it
again a few more times.  I do have the latest BIOS from Intergraph.  Since
I'm not running under Windows 95, the Windows driver won't make a
difference.

I have tried very basic bootups (several times), but to no avail.

I'm not running under Windows 95, but rather rebooting to stand alone DOS
mode, so the Win95 settings won't matter.  I have verified my sound card
settings and there are no conflicts.  I don't have the PnP version of the SB
AWE 32, so I've made my settings with the jumpers.  

Once again, thanks for your suggestions.  It appears that perhaps the
problem is with the Rendition version and possibly my motherboard.  When
running the NASCAR2.EXE, I noticed the graphics were rather poor compared to
the Rendition version and the handling of the car seemed to be very 'jumpy'
which caused me to basically drive all over the road at times.  Even if the
NASCAR2.EXE doesn't constantly bomb out on me like the NASREND.EXE does, I
will probably shelve the game until I decide to upgrade my motherboard down
the road.  (The poor graphics compared to the Rendition version and the
jumpy frame rate are just too much of a let down after driving the Rendition
version!)

I also got black flagged in a race at Talladega on 3 consecutive laps after
pitting for gas/tires.  This isn't the first time this has happened and I am
positive I didn't break the pit lane speed limit.  (In fact since the race
was lost after the 2nd black flag, during the next lap for last half of the
damn track while preparing to pit I deliberately drove below the pit lane
speed limit (7500rpm) and waited until long after leaving the pit and into
the first turn before speeding up, but I still got black flagged!  Another
annoying problem I wished would go away!)

NT will definitely stress the memory system in ways that Win'95 doesn't. NT
also seems to be more sensitive to soft errors in the L2 cache.

Dave Sparks
IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars
Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html
Hawaii Handle: davids

Make sure your pit road ENTRANCE speed is not too fast.  If you're going
85mph when your car first crosses the beginning of pit road, you're
nailed.  Try backing down below the speed limit before you get near the
pits, and see if this corrects the problem.  I know of no bug occurring
in this regard.

God Bless,
Steve

Charlie Heath / Papyrus

Thanks Steve.  So far no luck.  (Actually if you don't load EMM386.EXE, DOS
can't create and manage the upper memory blocks, so you can't load anything
into high memory.)  I've tried with and without EMM386.EXE/SMARTDRV.EXE.  I
have a few other combo's I'll try yet, maybe I'll get lucky.  I guess it's
possible I have bad memory, but it's somewhat suspicious that the only game
with trouble is this one.  Many of the other games/programs I have are
memory intensive too, such as Muzzle Velocity, but I guess only the
programmers truly know how hard their programs hit the RAM.

I was sure I did slow down below the pit limit long before entering pit
lane.  I'll keep trying though!

Thanks again for your help.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, but so far the problem still persists.
 I am beginning to think that it is a weird compatibility issue with the
rendition version of the game and my motherboard.  It has the older 430FX
chipset on it along with AWARD 4.50PG BIOS.  I seem to remember reading
somewhere about this combo.  (Of course I thought it was just when using
DMA.)  I tried running DMADIAG first too, but that didn't help.  I've tried
with and without DMA on the NASREND, along with the -4 switch, but so far,
whenever I use the Rendition version, the game bombs on me anywhere from
1-15 laps into a race.  (FYI - I have only raced Talladega.)  The few times
I ran the plain NASCAR2.EXE, it didn't lock up, but the graphics were much
slower and choppier and I had a harder time controlling the car.  (Not to
mention the graphics were a let down compared to the Rendition version!)  I
do run the game only in stand alone DOS mode by rebooting and not in Windows
95.  I also do not have any power down options enabled or in use in BIOS.

I did notice when I tested under Windows 95, I seemed to be able to race
without locking up, but the lurching effect people have reported shows up
with a vengeance when running under Win95!  (I didn't race for long though
to test if it would lock up, because the lurching kept making me dive into
the infield or other cars, so I had to quit.)  Running in stand alone DOS
the lurch isn't really noticeable.  (Except mine lurches left and not right
like every one has reported!  Go figure.)  Anyway, I've been keeping my eye
on a new version of an ABIT motherboard soon to be released and will hope
that fixes this problem.  (I was going to buy a new one anyway to get ready
for the release of Falcon 4.0 later this year.)  I've tried more
configurations in CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT than I can remember!  In fact
it makes me feel like I've never left work when coming home and working on
this problem!  Except this computer problem is a little more fun to mess
with than the ones I deal with at work!! : )  Anyway, great game!  Hopefully
a new motherboard will make this problem go away.

I had a very similar problem with Nascar 2. Random lockups after about 5 or
10 minutes of play. However, my system went on to develop random crashes in
Win95 too.
I eventually traced the problem to the pipeline cache module. I had
borrowed a different processor and simms and tried them without any luck.
The cache was my last hope!!
I removed the cache and Nascar ran fine. I then reinserted the cache, and
to date it has behaved itself (fingers crossed).
My cache was a bit awkward to get to, hidden slightly behind the drive
bays. But it may be worth the effort.
Hope you find the problem!

Chris Hart

www.innotts.co.uk/~chart

You want Himem.sys, not emm386.

God Bless,
Steve