rec.autos.simulators

N4: I think I'll start to drink Budweiser next (the US one, not the Czech original)

Gregor Vebl

N4: I think I'll start to drink Budweiser next (the US one, not the Czech original)

by Gregor Vebl » Sat, 31 Mar 2001 19:27:35

Hi all,

a couple of days ago my copy of Nascar Racing 4 finally arrived. While I
played the demo a lot, and seeing lots of its potential, nothing
prepared me for the experience that only Papyrus can create, it seems! I
haven't felt this good playing a sim, be it racing or flying, since
Grand Prix Legends! It sure crushed a couple of myths about Nascar.

Myth No. 1: Ovals are boring.

Plain wrong! The statement is indeed true about the restrictor plat
tracks, where you are flat out during the whole race, and even then it's
only true if you loose contact with the pack. All the other ovals are
exhillarating! Think about what corners you like in GPL, for example.
Most likely you'll choose one of the fast sweepers such as Curva Grande
or a number of them at Zandvoort, for example. Well, on ovals, all of
them are such corners! Brake late but not too late, be smooth on the
steering wheel on entry, and then apply just enough throttle to balance
the car, and slowly applying more towards the exit; no more than is
necessary so you don't hug the wall when the banking drops, though. It's
all very, very technical, much more than migth appear to a casual
observer.

Myth No. 2: Nascar cars are very crude.

Well, the rules indeed make them very unsophisticated compared to
certain open wheelers, but within that they seem to be great feats of
engineering, and contrary to what I thought they actually have
practically nothing in common with the road cars they supposedly
represent. Even the headlights are just decals on the car! A Nascar car
a thoroughbread racing machine, much more than the cars in the European
touring series, it's just the specs make them look like roadcars.

And boy, do they make for a fun experience on road circuits! Drive one
of these beasts around Watkins Glen, and it's like steering a hugely
overpowered boat. You turn in, the nose follows a bit later, and then
the car leans and starts the turn. Brake for that inner loop (a ***
surprise for any GPL-er!), throw it into the corner and, gasp, you just
drift over the curb, ahem, kerb, turn in the opposite direction and
wonder how you ever made it, wih the car apparently being only mildly
upset by it all!

It translates really well on the PC, as the transitions are slow enough
to be clearly discernible sitting in front of a monitor. It just migth
be the series that is best suited for a PC racing sim, and guys and gals
at Papy seem to know it!

All in all, the Americana experience is also well captured, with the
spotter calling you buddy and all, and I'm enjoying it as a change from
the sterile F1 experience. Pass that Bud, will you :)?

-Gregor

MP

N4: I think I'll start to drink Budweiser next (the US one, not the Czech original)

by MP » Sat, 31 Mar 2001 20:01:48


I like Nascar 4, but I find the cars a lot more difficult to save when
the tail comes out than in GPL. You can drive at crazy angles at GPL,
but I find that if you let the rear end come out more than a couple of
degrees in N4 there's nothing you can do, and an impact with the wall
and disastrous pile-up follows.

Is this realistic?

- Michael
GPLRank -3.23

Gregor Vebl

N4: I think I'll start to drink Budweiser next (the US one, not the Czech original)

by Gregor Vebl » Sat, 31 Mar 2001 20:14:08

Hi,

that seems to be completely realistic.The steering ratio with default
setups in N4 is much higher on ovals to give you enough precision and as
such doesn't even enable you to put in enough opposite lock to save the
car once you get it sideways. Try maximizing the steering ratio in GPL
and you'll be faced with a similar problem, especially in fast corners.

The trick is to be able to recognize the onset of spin way before it
actually begins to happen. Even if you could save the car, driving that
way will wear out your tires in no time. The trick is too be extremely
smooth with your inputs; think of your feet and hands as immersed in a
very viscous fluid, and try acting accordingly. A FF wheel also helps a
lot.

On road courses using setups with default low steering ratios, you'll
notice that indeed you can catch the car, much like in GPL, and the car
reacts very slowly making the drifts so spectacular they're not even
funny anymore (and they eat the tires immediately)!

-Gregor


> I like Nascar 4, but I find the cars a lot more difficult to save when
> the tail comes out than in GPL. You can drive at crazy angles at GPL,
> but I find that if you let the rear end come out more than a couple of
> degrees in N4 there's nothing you can do, and an impact with the wall
> and disastrous pile-up follows.

> Is this realistic?

> - Michael
> GPLRank -3.23

John Bod

N4: I think I'll start to drink Budweiser next (the US one, not the Czech original)

by John Bod » Sun, 01 Apr 2001 03:55:27

EXCELLENT analysis of the sport, Gregor!  And remember, everything
that you have said about NASCAR's stock cars on ovals applies even
moreso to the cars of the Indy Racing League and CART -- only at a
MUCH greater rate of speed, and with MUCH more at stake.  Trade off
NASCAR's signature "rubbin' and bumpin'" for the hazards of high-speed
wheel-to-wheel racing in open wheelers -- the end result is a sport
that can require perhaps even MORE precision than GPL at times.  

Putting all the politics of CART, the IRL, and NASCAR aside,
American-style oval racing IS highly underrated by most people.  

As I said, EXCELLENT analysis of the sport!

;-)

-- JB

On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:27:35 +0200, Gregor Veble


>Hi all,

>a couple of days ago my copy of Nascar Racing 4 finally arrived. While I
>played the demo a lot, and seeing lots of its potential, nothing
>prepared me for the experience that only Papyrus can create, it seems! I
>haven't felt this good playing a sim, be it racing or flying, since
>Grand Prix Legends! It sure crushed a couple of myths about Nascar.

>Myth No. 1: Ovals are boring.

>Plain wrong! The statement is indeed true about the restrictor plat
>tracks, where you are flat out during the whole race, and even then it's
>only true if you loose contact with the pack. All the other ovals are
>exhillarating! Think about what corners you like in GPL, for example.
>Most likely you'll choose one of the fast sweepers such as Curva Grande
>or a number of them at Zandvoort, for example. Well, on ovals, all of
>them are such corners! Brake late but not too late, be smooth on the
>steering wheel on entry, and then apply just enough throttle to balance
>the car, and slowly applying more towards the exit; no more than is
>necessary so you don't hug the wall when the banking drops, though. It's
>all very, very technical, much more than migth appear to a casual
>observer.

>Myth No. 2: Nascar cars are very crude.

>Well, the rules indeed make them very unsophisticated compared to
>certain open wheelers, but within that they seem to be great feats of
>engineering, and contrary to what I thought they actually have
>practically nothing in common with the road cars they supposedly
>represent. Even the headlights are just decals on the car! A Nascar car
>a thoroughbread racing machine, much more than the cars in the European
>touring series, it's just the specs make them look like roadcars.

>And boy, do they make for a fun experience on road circuits! Drive one
>of these beasts around Watkins Glen, and it's like steering a hugely
>overpowered boat. You turn in, the nose follows a bit later, and then
>the car leans and starts the turn. Brake for that inner loop (a ***
>surprise for any GPL-er!), throw it into the corner and, gasp, you just
>drift over the curb, ahem, kerb, turn in the opposite direction and
>wonder how you ever made it, wih the car apparently being only mildly
>upset by it all!

>It translates really well on the PC, as the transitions are slow enough
>to be clearly discernible sitting in front of a monitor. It just migth
>be the series that is best suited for a PC racing sim, and guys and gals
>at Papy seem to know it!

>All in all, the Americana experience is also well captured, with the
>spotter calling you buddy and all, and I'm enjoying it as a change from
>the sterile F1 experience. Pass that Bud, will you :)?

>-Gregor

Michael Basde

N4: I think I'll start to drink Budweiser next (the US one, not the Czech original)

by Michael Basde » Sun, 01 Apr 2001 07:42:44

I used to think the same.  I'll I can say is "Practice".  You'll be amazed
at what you really can save!



> > Hi all,

> > a couple of days ago my copy of Nascar Racing 4 finally arrived. While I
> > played the demo a lot, and seeing lots of its potential, nothing
> > prepared me for the experience that only Papyrus can create, it seems! I
> > haven't felt this good playing a sim, be it racing or flying, since
> > Grand Prix Legends! It sure crushed a couple of myths about Nascar.

> I like Nascar 4, but I find the cars a lot more difficult to save when
> the tail comes out than in GPL. You can drive at crazy angles at GPL,
> but I find that if you let the rear end come out more than a couple of
> degrees in N4 there's nothing you can do, and an impact with the wall
> and disastrous pile-up follows.

> Is this realistic?

> - Michael
> GPLRank -3.23

Don Burnett

N4: I think I'll start to drink Budweiser next (the US one, not the Czech original)

by Don Burnett » Sun, 01 Apr 2001 09:27:34

Welcome aboard the Nascar train!!
Can't beat it,

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.


George Lewi

N4: I think I'll start to drink Budweiser next (the US one, not the Czech original)

by George Lewi » Sun, 01 Apr 2001 12:45:24

Well, I think it's harder to drive a sim than a real racecar. same is
true with flight sims. If I flew an airplane anywhere near as bad as a
flight sim, I would have never gotten my pilot's license!!!

In a real car, you can "feel" what's happening by the seat of your
pants. I'm still a little skeptical, but everyone that has the
act-labs Force RS forcefeedback wheel says it is awesome and helps to
counter some of that "can't feel" situation.  

So in effect, in real life the driver can drive a loose race car alot
easier than in the sim.



>> Hi all,

>> a couple of days ago my copy of Nascar Racing 4 finally arrived. While I
>> played the demo a lot, and seeing lots of its potential, nothing
>> prepared me for the experience that only Papyrus can create, it seems! I
>> haven't felt this good playing a sim, be it racing or flying, since
>> Grand Prix Legends! It sure crushed a couple of myths about Nascar.

>I like Nascar 4, but I find the cars a lot more difficult to save when
>the tail comes out than in GPL. You can drive at crazy angles at GPL,
>but I find that if you let the rear end come out more than a couple of
>degrees in N4 there's nothing you can do, and an impact with the wall
>and disastrous pile-up follows.

>Is this realistic?

>- Michael
>GPLRank -3.23

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Ed Whit

N4: I think I'll start to drink Budweiser next (the US one, not the Czech original)

by Ed Whit » Sun, 01 Apr 2001 13:19:57

MP, I was lucky enough to drive a bunch of GPL before N4 came out, and the
way to "save" a car that's starting to come around on you is with a healthy
stab at the brake pedal, hard enough to break the front end loose.......When
you begin the spin, the rear is sliding due to the loss of traction, and is
overrotating to the left.......stab the brakes, get the front end broke
free, and the front will rotate back out toward the wall, you'll kill your
speed, lose some spots, but live to race to the next pit stop, when you'll
get 4 new tires and go out and pass all those bastards back! Pass me a Bud,
and Go Jr. at Texas!

--

"Sideways, Slideways, and Every Other Ways"



> > Hi all,

> > a couple of days ago my copy of Nascar Racing 4 finally arrived. While I
> > played the demo a lot, and seeing lots of its potential, nothing
> > prepared me for the experience that only Papyrus can create, it seems! I
> > haven't felt this good playing a sim, be it racing or flying, since
> > Grand Prix Legends! It sure crushed a couple of myths about Nascar.

> I like Nascar 4, but I find the cars a lot more difficult to save when
> the tail comes out than in GPL. You can drive at crazy angles at GPL,
> but I find that if you let the rear end come out more than a couple of
> degrees in N4 there's nothing you can do, and an impact with the wall
> and disastrous pile-up follows.

> Is this realistic?

> - Michael
> GPLRank -3.23

MP

N4: I think I'll start to drink Budweiser next (the US one, not the Czech original)

by MP » Sun, 01 Apr 2001 21:42:00

That's a good point - after some more practice I can sense the onset of
oversteer sooner - you've got to put the correction in virtually before
you can see anything happening!

- Michael
GPLRank -3.23

> Hi,

> that seems to be completely realistic.The steering ratio with default
> setups in N4 is much higher on ovals to give you enough precision and as
> such doesn't even enable you to put in enough opposite lock to save the
> car once you get it sideways. Try maximizing the steering ratio in GPL
> and you'll be faced with a similar problem, especially in fast corners.

> The trick is to be able to recognize the onset of spin way before it
> actually begins to happen. Even if you could save the car, driving that
> way will wear out your tires in no time. The trick is too be extremely
> smooth with your inputs; think of your feet and hands as immersed in a
> very viscous fluid, and try acting accordingly. A FF wheel also helps a
> lot.

> On road courses using setups with default low steering ratios, you'll
> notice that indeed you can catch the car, much like in GPL, and the car
> reacts very slowly making the drifts so spectacular they're not even
> funny anymore (and they eat the tires immediately)!

> -Gregor


> > I like Nascar 4, but I find the cars a lot more difficult to save when
> > the tail comes out than in GPL. You can drive at crazy angles at GPL,
> > but I find that if you let the rear end come out more than a couple of
> > degrees in N4 there's nothing you can do, and an impact with the wall
> > and disastrous pile-up follows.

> > Is this realistic?

> > - Michael
> > GPLRank -3.23

MP

N4: I think I'll start to drink Budweiser next (the US one, not the Czech original)

by MP » Sun, 01 Apr 2001 21:42:40

I'll give that a try. Hopefully the AI will miss me!

- Michael

George Lewi

N4: I think I'll start to drink Budweiser next (the US one, not the Czech original)

by George Lewi » Mon, 02 Apr 2001 09:58:07

good luck! If "you" were the AI, they could just drive through you
with no consequence :)


>I'll give that a try. Hopefully the AI will miss me!

>- Michael

>> MP, I was lucky enough to drive a bunch of GPL before N4 came out, and the
>> way to "save" a car that's starting to come around on you is with a healthy
>> stab at the brake pedal, hard enough to break the front end loose.......When
>> you begin the spin, the rear is sliding due to the loss of traction, and is
>> overrotating to the left.......stab the brakes, get the front end broke
>> free, and the front will rotate back out toward the wall, you'll kill your
>> speed, lose some spots, but live to race to the next pit stop, when you'll
>> get 4 new tires and go out and pass all those bastards back! Pass me a Bud,
>> and Go Jr. at Texas!

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