rec.autos.simulators

Is there anybody out there who can explain why ICR2 drives like a drunken
boat?
I've even read somewhere that ICR2 is more realistic than GP2 as far as the
behaviour of the car is concearned. On my PC the reactions of the steering
wheel (and also of my GRAVIS ANALOG joystick) seem to be far too slow in
ICR2. It's impossible to drive precise on street circuits or in traffic on
any circuit.
I can't imagine I'm the only one with this problem, and those who find ICR2
very drivable: how do you do it?
Mind you: I'm aware we're talking simulation here. The reactions of the car
are not at all realistic.
I have the impression that the game takes too long to detect the last
movement of the steering wheel, so it becomes impossible to make
corrections or sudden movements in traffic. I really can't imagine how some
of you manage to get through the chicanes in Australia, ...
Please don't start explaining how real indycars behave: I know they're
heavier than F1, the brakes are less efficient, and I'm aware that driving
on ovals is a delicate thing.
This is my hardware:
Pentium 90 (I know it's not fast, but with less detail this should be no
problem)
16MB RAM, Diamond Stealth videocard
Soundblaster 32Pnp (gameport is switched off)
Thrustmaster Gamecard (I use this port)
T2 steering wheel (but my joystick gave the same results)
I have 580KB available in DOS.

I've tried everything:
-less detail, less concurrents drawn, ...
-other gameport (32Pnp)
-different setting of the gamecards speed
-and so on...

What are your experiences with ICR2, and do you have any suggestions?

Karl

Sorry for the caps in the next sentence, but it is very important!

MAKE SURE YOU ARE USING "LINEAR STEERING"

        1. Goto OPTIONS
        2. Goto CONTROLS
        3. If you see a line saying "NON-LINEAR STEERING",
           Change it to LINEAR STEERING.

Linear steering is used for wheels, gives you immediate reactions.
Non-linear should be used for joysticks, has a bigger dead-zone.
Causing the delayed effect.

Play in DOS.

Calibrate the joystick/steering wheel. (I have a T2 and it works fine)
I have a Sound Blaster V2.0 (8-bit) and using the joystick port on it.

If your front shocks are too soft, the car will not react as quickly.

Try increasing the steering lock.  If the lock is low, your will need
to turn the wheel more to turn a sharp corner.

I have problems with them too.  Just slow down.

Maybe try the keyboard.  This would just be a test to see if the car
reacts the same way.

--
######################
This would have been an interesting signature file, if I created one.
######################

What version are you running?...The latest (DOS) is v1.02, and fixes a
few traction issues...

As far as you input device is concerned, I would borrow a friend's unit
to see if there's a change.  I find that the car drives very nice (except
for the brakes), and have little problem negotiating turns.  Another thing
to try is to lower the steering-lock to suit the track (lower for ovals,
higher
for street).  I usually run with a lock of 11-12 for the street, while a
typical oval might require a setting of 5-7.  Changing the anti-roll will
also affect steering response.

Best Regards,

Marc

Marc J. Nelson
The Sim Project
http://members.aol.com/simproject

: As far as you input device is concerned, I would borrow a friend's unit
: to see if there's a change.  I find that the car drives very nice (except
: for the brakes), and have little problem negotiating turns.  Another thing
: to try is to lower the steering-lock to suit the track (lower for ovals,
: higher
: for street).  I usually run with a lock of 11-12 for the street, while a
: typical oval might require a setting of 5-7.  Changing the anti-roll will
: also affect steering response.

Although Papyrus' sims do not "model" the brakes locking up, they do seem
to have included some of the affects.  After playing with GP2 with its
excellent model of locking brakes, I was able to translate my braking
methods in GP2 to ICR2.  Only MASH the brakes when you start a heavy
braking maneuver.  Then start to modulate the brakes (even with pedals).
If you have the brakes totally engaged you will not be able to turn the
car.  You can use the brakes to help transfer the weight over the front
wheels.  This usually only requires a slight pressure on the brake pedal
and will help in turning the car in tight situations.  CART Indy Cars
are quite sensitive to braking and throttle actions.  You will need to
learn to be gentle with both.  The old style of point and shoot will
hardly ever work in ICR2.  With careful practice (and a good setup) one
can become quite adept at controlling the car as it turns with just
subtle adjustments to the throttle or brake.  In actuality, Papyrus'
sims translate a throttle lift the same as a slight braking action.  But
I find that using the proper foot to achieve the effect is easier for my
poor brain to cope with.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

: In actuality, Papyrus' sims translate a throttle lift the same as a
: slight braking action.

That's real physics.  If you are accelerating in a turn and you suddenly
lift, the car will get upset.  The car will actually turn to the inside of
the corner (or the back end swings to the outside of the turn).

That's why pumping the throttle in turns is sometimes better than a
gradual, steady application of power.  The pumping will help make the car
turn, while still maintaining exit speed slightly higher than a
gradual application (hey, I'm a pumper ;)

Your real car in real life will do this.  That's one of the things you are
taught when you go to a race driving school.  Usually they have you go
through a slalom course and towards the end of the cones they have you
completely lift.  Then you steer like hell trying not to lose it.  ;)

Yep, just think about what the car is doing. If you are accelerating in a
left-hand turn, the weight is transferred to the right side and towards the
rear. This gives the rear tires better grip. Let off the throttle and the
weight transfers forward, the rears lose grip, particularly the LR, and
taken to extremes, the rear end breaks loose.

Dave Sparks
IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars
Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html
Hawaii Handle: davids

: : In actuality, Papyrus' sims translate a throttle lift the same as a
: : slight braking action.

: That's real physics.  If you are accelerating in a turn and you suddenly
: lift, the car will get upset.  The car will actually turn to the inside of
: the corner (or the back end swings to the outside of the turn).

Of course you are right and that is how the car reacts.  As a matter of
fact the coppers watch for this when they are sitting in speed traps.
The look for the front end of the car to "dive down" indicating that
driver is either letting off the gas or hitting the brakes when he/she
catches sight of the cop car.

This whole aspect is extremely evident on ice or slippery roads.

But, the point I meant to make was that since the brake/throttle are on
the same axis in the sim, it doesn't really make much difference whether
you apply a little brake or lift slightly off the throttle.  However, in
real life there is a subtle difference.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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