rec.autos.simulators

Ed Martin, Jim Sokoloff, Dave Matson Papyrus:

It would really be refreshing if someone could really tell us the
truth about the NRO and its pricing.  And let me state that I dont
think we care a hooter about TEN, NRO, PAPYRUS SURCHARGES or
CONCENTRIC. Those charges are necessary.  At Least TEN has told
us to sign up with CONCENTRIC to beat that .95 cent an hour
surcharge.  

We all get this message about January 97 NRO update from Ed Martin
of Papyrus.  He tells us all this stuff about how NRO is
going to be cheap.  You know I might agree with you if I live in
Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles or New York City, but I dont,  I live in
a small town 180,000 people that isnt close a Concentric SuperPop
or an Enhanced Server.  WHAT DOES THAT MEAN.. LET ME MAKE IT SIMPLE
FOR YOU.. ITS CALLED LONG DISTANCE.  I care about LONG DISTANCE charges
and the fact that PAPYRUS refuses to address the fact that this is
really
gonna be the real cost.  I can see why it doesnt concern you as you
never played HAWAII anyways, Your just a SUIT in management, but I
have spent over $3000.00 on  HAWAII and so far there is no
PAPYRUS/TEN/CONCENTRIC solution that will cut my communuications cost.  
Let me make it simple.  There is no 800 dial-in number or local
access numbers and most of us dont live next to a major city.

THE SIMPLE FACT IS THE NRO IS TARGETED TOWARDS BIG CITIES AND THOSE
CLEINTS.  THE NRO WILL NOT BE AFFORDABLE TO THE MAJORITY OF THE
PEOPLE THAT HAVE SUPPORTED HAWAII AND ARE FROM RURAL AND SOUTHERN
STATES.  Eventually the NRO is going to be available and I predict
it will be a hard landing.

PS. Yes.. I guess I am one of those people you refer to in your first
paragraph.

PS. Why cant you give us the NRO rules...

Don Wilshe, IVGA

The statement below was cut out of the NRO 1997 letter from Ed Martin..

========================================================================
First on the hit list is pricing.  Although I spend a lot less time on
rec.autos.simulators than I used to, and I rarely post up there any
more,
we do monitor it.  One of the most "interesting" subjects up there since
the TEN announcement has been speculation on NRO pricing.  Wow!  Oliver
Stone's got nothing on a lot of you folks!  I've seen some postings up
there that estimate the pricing of NRO to be higher then the GNP of many
small nations!  Let me try to clarify...

Here is my exact quote from last month's letter: "We have not, and are
not
yet ready to announce the pricing for NRO.  Yes, TEN has announced their
pricing, but that is not necessarily indicative of what NRO will cost.
All I can tell you for now is that it will cost a lot less than the
long-distance charges that you are currently paying to dial into
Hawaii."

Folks, don't try to read too much between the lines.  All I'm saying is
that NRO pricing is not yet announced.  Period.  People making
assumptions
about surcharges for NRO over basic TEN pricing apparently know a lot
more
than me about the NRO.  That's a little unlikely.  Don't jump to
ridiculous
conclusions, and don't just make things up.  The simple fact is that we
(both Papyrus & TEN) are not yet ready to announce pricing.  That should
in no way be misinterpreted as some announcement that NRO will cost more
or
less than anything else on TEN.  All it says is that we have not yet
made
the pricing public.  That announcement will not be made until we get
closer
to release (this spring).  Can anyone guarantee the pricing of anything
a
few months in the future?

Although I can't say more about NRO pricing, I can say something about
TEN
pricing.  TEN has announced their pricing plans.  One of them is
$29.95/month
for unlimited usage.  As some have noted, that $29.95 does not include
unlimited use of TEN dial-ups, though.  Well, TEN uses Concentric as
their
primary ISP (www.concentric.net).  although TEN has yet to announce
anything regarding an "all-you-can-stand" plan which includes unlimited
TEN dial-up access, worst case, you can sign up with Concentric for an
unlimited usage plan.  So, the speculation over per-hour surcharges for
TEN are incorrect.
=============================================================================

Blah Blah Blah.  THERE IS NO 800 NUMBER OR LOCAL ACCESS NUMBERS.  ITS
LONG
DISTANCE FOR MOST OF US.............................

Geez, I really hope this doesn't become another long, drawn out
thread.  Email your misgivings to one of the above directly, Don.  No
one here can help you.

Bill.

Regards,
Gavel

As I understand it, there are actually two ways in which to
connect to TEN...1) Dial TEN direct, thus gauranteeing a
clear connection, but may cost you in LD. 2) Enter TEN
through the 'net (like most do), and play on the system as
though it were Kali, Khan, etc...I'm sure they'll have a
password in order for you to log on in either config...

Best Regards,

Marc

Marc J. Nelson
Sim Racing News - USA
http://members.aol.com/simracing

 Hi Marc,
  In order to dial direct to TEN and race in the NRO you'll have to use
one of their "enhanced" numbers. These numbers are provided by Concentric
Net. You'll be lucky if they are a local call. In my case, (I live in
the suburbs of Sacramento, hardly rural) the call is a toll call that
works out to be  $6.37 per hour with TENs' .95cent per hour fee tacked
on and NOT including the $15.00 per month "unlimited use" fee I currently
pay to TEN. While this is not "the GNP of some countries", it is more than
I pay to race on Hawaii per hour.
  If you're lucky enough to have Concentric as your ISP AND a  local
enhanced number you're cruisin! If you're me you have no local access
to Concentric and thus must pay the above toll..or
  Use your own ISP, but it better get to darkride.ten.net in less than
10 hops or you're not gonna have a very good time. TEN tech support
says it has the best luck with Concentric and Netcom customers. The
above costs are not wild imaginations, they are the published prices
of the services mentioned.
   Ed has asked that we not speculate on NRO fees or pricing, so I won't.
 I'm concentrating my efforts now on finding a stout ISP that'll get
to TEN below 10 hops and hope that Concentric doesn't end up being the
de-facto method of racing on the NRO.
  Hope this helps someone.

Regards,
Greg
Gavel on Hawaii,TEN,Kali and Kahn
P.S> for those on the West coast, Pac Bell and TEN often have connex probs.
according to a source at TEN. Many ISPs' out here lease Pac Bell routes.
Investigate.