If Bonds did what many are claiming he did (though there is no absolute
proof), how is this any different than what happened with Waltrip? Both are
cheating. Bonds' allegations have never been proven but Waltrip's has, yet
Waltrip gets nothing.
Looks to me like there are two different standards going on here.
Alan
I like Mikey.
That said, he is the driver and his wife is the team owner, and another
member of the team made a decision to alter the fuel, which broke the rules.
Did Mikey or his wife know about it? We'll probably never know.
Bonds, himself, knowing the risks of steroid use, used the stuff
himself.....much more personal offense, IMO.
Since we're on the subject of Nascar and violations, anyone want to take a
stab at how Jeff Gordon's broken shock mounting bolt could have lowered his
car an inch on BOTH sides?
Especially since, shocks do not set the ride height of a car, the springs
do? This, my friends, is my *** theory of the day.....I need a better
answer.
Ed
there are thousands of nascar Illegal mods that arent illegal, otherwise,
like fuel injection, nitrous, superchargers etc that nascar takes away for
sake of competition. In sports, they took basically illegal *** period
end of story, and we/they (the powers that be that is) took it away because
we dotn want our kids to risk their lives trying to emulate these atheletes
by taking the same ***.
See what I mean?
So to me, your saying Waltrip should be banned because I might run out and
put octane boosters into my street car? or how about a supercharger, which
too is illegal in NASCAR.
In essence the other problem... with the parallel you attempt to draw, they
advocate speeding! Speeding can kill, so ban Racing altogether I guess?
What Bonds and the ilk were doing (even the bicycle guys) is risky to human
life for an edge above and beyond what normal athleticism, practice and
workouts could accomplish. this would be more like if Waltrip and others
were harnessing atomic reaction (bomb) to win the race, IMHO then yeah, ban
his ass.
Alan Bernardo enlightened us with:
Cheating is cheating. As I said, aside from the health risk-- and the health
risk is on the cheater-- I don't see a difference. Both (in the case of a
proven case of steroid use) are trying to gain an unfair advantage. One
case, unproven, gets the tag of being the villain of all villains; the
other, gets a points deduction and even gets to drive in the next race.
This isn't right. Draw your own conclusions.
Alanb
Alan once again I read what I typed, I didnt mean to sound so, you know
condescending...
But the main problem that nascar is faced with, 90% of the race &
development really is ever so technically "cheating"... the overhead valve
pushrod engine should not be producing 850 HP, if it were not for cheating
the limitations. The car is supposed to be a stock car, with off the
showroom type stuff, at least initially. once they started straying from
the definition of stock and production, hell were do you draw the line? Im
not the only one who would argue this, Petty, Earnhardt, Waltrip, and
Wallace etc etc WOULD have been an "also ran", had it not been for "finding"
the grey areas, let alone getting "by" with a rule break or two for many
years in fact, hell DW will blatantly say as much on TV. 20 gallon fuel
tank 24 ft of huge fuel line is one of his examples...
I kind of agree, cheat is cheat, and nothing really boils my ***more than
cheats. But how much did he cheat, kinda like being banned from a track
meet because your father ran beside you for more than 10ft, cheering you to
GO GO GO?! Or is it like cutting the course thus making you shave 30 ft on
the distance you had to cover? still had to drive 2.5 miles, risked the
engine blowing up? I dunno, I mean how big was the cheat?. is it like
welterweight boxing, and showing up like 1 to say 12 lbs over your class?
how about 12 cylinder engine?
that is my thing.
Like the bill the KS senate passed, that if a woman with a fetus gets killed
(undescribed in time or age of fetus) could have you up for double ***,
or even more likely to affect more people, involuntary *** (run a stop
light hist a pregnant woman, baby dies or they both die) yet the same people
that love this idea, thinks ANYONE can abort ANY baby at ANY time....
HMMMMMmmmmmm. So I say make up your mind, to those...
Anyway, Im an nascar fan but definitely an outsider and wanna ask you to
speculate on how the incident even happened, if you would....
I think some "one" person probably adds the "cocktail" vasaline ish type
stuff (you know to have plausable deny-ability for rest of team) what have
ya, secretly to the cans of gas in the garage area (remember 4 cars under
this team) you suppose somehow waltrip got 2 of the 4 cans worth of***tail
or something? I just cannot believe he could be that far off... but, hell
if I know, wierd.
Would nascar not have seen the same "***in the intake" when the team
brought back that car to recheck after being allowed to swap intake (which
was found pre or post qualify run, I am not sure on this the 1st time?) IF
nascar found it "pre qual run" then didnt recheck before the re run, they
pretty much begged them to go ahead and cheat again, didnt they?
I thought they found it Pre Run at firts, then Post run second... I dont
know positively.
>> there are thousands of nascar Illegal mods that arent illegal,
>> otherwise, like fuel injection, nitrous, superchargers etc that
>> nascar takes away for sake of competition. In sports, they took
>> basically illegal *** period end of story, and we/they (the powers
>> that be that is) took it away because we dotn want our kids to risk
>> their lives trying to emulate these atheletes by taking the same
>> ***. See what I mean?
>> So to me, your saying Waltrip should be banned because I might run
>> out and put octane boosters into my street car? or how about a
>> supercharger, which too is illegal in NASCAR.
>> In essence the other problem... with the parallel you attempt to
>> draw, they advocate speeding! Speeding can kill, so ban Racing
>> altogether I guess?
>> What Bonds and the ilk were doing (even the bicycle guys) is risky
>> to human life for an edge above and beyond what normal athleticism,
>> practice and workouts could accomplish. this would be more like if
>> Waltrip and others were harnessing atomic reaction (bomb) to win the
>> race, IMHO then yeah, ban his ass.
> Cheating is cheating. As I said, aside from the health risk-- and the
> health risk is on the cheater-- I don't see a difference. Both (in
> the case of a proven case of steroid use) are trying to gain an
> unfair advantage. One case, unproven, gets the tag of being the
> villain of all villains; the other, gets a points deduction and even
> gets to drive in the next race.
> This isn't right. Draw your own conclusions.
> Alanb
Well, you certainly sound as if you know more about this stuff than I do. I
just think that the media picks and chooses who to hunt without even the
least bit of consideration to what that person did or didn't do. And this
is based on how a person treats the media, having nothing to do with the
actual situation and what overall harm might have occurred. (But still....)
The media hates Bonds because he doesn't open up to them. They treat the
Nascar types very well because the Nascar types treat them well. But again,
IMO I think there's a little more to this than that, even though no one
would admit it or even think it possible, even to themselves.
I like Nascar and watch it occasionally. This Daytona race I always watch.
I'm so geared up I might even reinstall Nascar 2003. :)
Alanb
>> Alan once again I read what I typed, I didnt mean to sound so, you
>> know condescending...
>> But the main problem that nascar is faced with, 90% of the race &
>> development really is ever so technically "cheating"... the overhead
>> valve pushrod engine should not be producing 850 HP, if it were not
>> for cheating the limitations. The car is supposed to be a stock
>> car, with off the showroom type stuff, at least initially. once
>> they started straying from the definition of stock and production,
>> hell were do you draw the line? Im not the only one who would argue
>> this, Petty, Earnhardt, Waltrip, and Wallace etc etc WOULD have
>> been an "also ran", had it not been for "finding" the grey areas,
>> let alone getting "by" with a rule break or two for many years in
>> fact, hell DW will blatantly say as much on TV. 20 gallon fuel tank
>> 24 ft of huge fuel line is one of his examples... I kind of agree, cheat
>> is cheat, and nothing really boils my ***
>> more than cheats. But how much did he cheat, kinda like being
>> banned from a track meet because your father ran beside you for more
>> than 10ft, cheering you to GO GO GO?! Or is it like cutting the
>> course thus making you shave 30 ft on the distance you had to cover?
>> still had to drive 2.5 miles, risked the engine blowing up? I
>> dunno, I mean how big was the cheat?. is it like welterweight
>> boxing, and showing up like 1 to say 12 lbs over your class? how
>> about 12 cylinder engine? that is my thing.
>> Like the bill the KS senate passed, that if a woman with a fetus gets
>> killed (undescribed in time or age of fetus) could have you up for
>> double ***, or even more likely to affect more people,
>> involuntary *** (run a stop light hist a pregnant woman, baby
>> dies or they both die) yet the same people that love this idea,
>> thinks ANYONE can abort ANY baby at ANY time.... HMMMMMmmmmmm. So I
>> say make up your mind, to those... Anyway, Im an nascar fan but
>> definitely an outsider and wanna ask
>> you to speculate on how the incident even happened, if you would....
>> I think some "one" person probably adds the "cocktail" vasaline ish
>> type stuff (you know to have plausable deny-ability for rest of
>> team) what have ya, secretly to the cans of gas in the garage area
>> (remember 4 cars under this team) you suppose somehow waltrip got 2
>> of the 4 cans worth of***tail or something? I just cannot believe
>> he could be that far off... but, hell if I know, wierd.
>> Would nascar not have seen the same "***in the intake" when the
>> team brought back that car to recheck after being allowed to swap
>> intake (which was found pre or post qualify run, I am not sure on
>> this the 1st time?) IF nascar found it "pre qual run" then didnt
>> recheck before the re run, they pretty much begged them to go ahead
>> and cheat again, didnt they? I thought they found it Pre Run at firts,
>> then Post run second... I
>> dont know positively.
> Well, you certainly sound as if you know more about this stuff than I
> do. I just think that the media picks and chooses who to hunt
> without even the least bit of consideration to what that person did
> or didn't do. And this is based on how a person treats the media,
> having nothing to do with the actual situation and what overall harm
> might have occurred. (But still....)
> The media hates Bonds because he doesn't open up to them. They treat
> the Nascar types very well because the Nascar types treat them well. But
> again, IMO I think there's a little more to this than that, even
> though no one would admit it or even think it possible, even to
> themselves.
> I like Nascar and watch it occasionally. This Daytona race I always
> watch. I'm so geared up I might even reinstall Nascar 2003. :)
> Alanb
Yeah, I tried those. But you just can't top Nascar 2003. Try as folks
might to develop something better, nothing has come close to N2003, at least
not to my liking. Though I've never driven a real top-to-do Nascar, there's
just a certain heaviness to the rFactor mods that is a bit annoying when
compared to N2003.
The Pits' release is the one I like best. And I suppose that if you want to
do some casual online driving, you're going to get more people online using
rFactor than N2003. I'd kill to get ten folks together to just do some
casual racing, with a server open all the time. I've tried often enough,
but interest wanes and people just disappear.
Alanb
Not odd at all. You keep insisting these two cheating events are
analogous. A better comparison would be MW vs. a baseball player who
corked his bat. Both cheating, both worthy of penalty.
What Bonds is accused of is nearly an entire career of not only
breaking the rules, but also the law, for competitive advantage. It
would be like a driver discovering meth or coke improved his
concentration and reactions and then used them throughout his racing
career.
Kendt
>> If Bonds did what many are claiming he did (though there is no absolute
>> proof), how is this any different than what happened with Waltrip? Both
>> are
>> cheating. Bonds' allegations have never been proven but Waltrip's has,
>> yet
>> Waltrip gets nothing.
>> Looks to me like there are two different standards going on here.
>> Alan
> Not odd at all. You keep insisting these two cheating events are
> analogous. A better comparison would be MW vs. a baseball player who
> corked his bat. Both cheating, both worthy of penalty.
> What Bonds is accused of is nearly an entire career of not only
> breaking the rules, but also the law, for competitive advantage. It
> would be like a driver discovering meth or coke improved his
> concentration and reactions and then used them throughout his racing
> career.
> Kendt
Alanb
