rec.autos.simulators

by **James Pickar** » Fri, 25 Jun 1999 04:00:00

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NOW. .before you fry me for this not being about Racing "SIMS", I need
help.. and there are sure to be guys out there who race sima nd RL and
know what I need tknow.. so plz excue this.. if you don't know or can't
help.. or just want to flame me :-)

+=================================

I race an Alfa Romeo Alfasud 1.7ti here in Australia...

Now.. i have been racing it for aboug 2 years.. won club champs with
it.. now I have upped it a bit :-)

More power, lowered suspension, bigger brakes, and an LSD...

It has about a 135 BHP at the Crank (112 at the wheels) and weight about
870kg..

It has ALWAY handled the sweatest of all my cars.. with great turn
it.. good mid corner speed.. but understeer on exit (to be expected
with a front wheel drive car)..

Now.. I have fitted an LSD with very little lock (about 30%) and can
still get inner wheel spin coming out of 2nd and third gear corners...
but not as much as before..

I have also got a new set of tires on the front (old set ont he rear)..
they are:

Font: 205x55x14 Hoosier competiton tires (basically slicks) NEW
Rear: 205x60x14 Dunlop Formula R's (basically slicks) OLD

I ran at Phillip Island for the first time with the "new" car... GREAT
power and speed... topped 200kph for the first time!! wow.. what a
buzz into T1 at about 170 kph.. but. .and this is where it starts to
suck :-)

I was running tire pressures of about 40psi front, 34 psi rear... Now
normally that would give me a good handling car (according to the car
b4)..

BUT.. the car UNDERSTEERED more that it has ever!!!! Just ***
steering..!!!

wouldn't turn.. and just kept pushing wide :-( REALLY
dissapointing.. The LSD must have upset it, but with new tires,, I
would have expected it to be OK.. but it was DIABOLICAL..

I know there must be some ppl with experiece of racing here on this
Newgroup.. even tho it is for Simulations (plz excuse) but I need help
from experieced drivers.. and I'm sure there are a few here... anyone
race a Front wheel drive Super Tourer?? :-)

I am thinking of simply stiffening the rear springs and shocks, that
should help, the front does even have a roll bar, so that isn't an
option...

ANY help would be cool..

Thanx

James Pickard,
Melbourne,
AUSTRALIA

by **wilb** » Fri, 25 Jun 1999 04:00:00

says...
Tighten up the rear, and play with the front tire pressures. My old car
(honda civic) responded to lower front pressure/stiffness & higher rear
pressure/stiffness.

wilbur

by **Bruce Bla** » Fri, 25 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Like I've always said....

God intended <serious> race cars to have the steering wheels in
front, and the driving wheels in the rear.

[now waiting for flames from all the FWD fans]

Former Alfa racer - GT3-D Spider 2000

>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>NOW. .before you fry me for this not being about Racing "SIMS", I need
>help.. and there are sure to be guys out there who race sima nd RL and
>know what I need tknow.. so plz excue this.. if you don't know or can't
>help.. or just want to flame me :-)

>+=================================

>I race an Alfa Romeo Alfasud 1.7ti here in Australia...

>Now.. i have been racing it for aboug 2 years.. won club champs with
>it.. now I have upped it a bit :-)

>More power, lowered suspension, bigger brakes, and an LSD...

>It has about a 135 BHP at the Crank (112 at the wheels) and weight about
>870kg..

>It has ALWAY handled the sweatest of all my cars.. with great turn
>it.. good mid corner speed.. but understeer on exit (to be expected
>with a front wheel drive car)..

>Now.. I have fitted an LSD with very little lock (about 30%) and can
>still get inner wheel spin coming out of 2nd and third gear corners...
>but not as much as before..

>I have also got a new set of tires on the front (old set ont he rear)..
>they are:

>Font: 205x55x14 Hoosier competiton tires (basically slicks) NEW
>Rear: 205x60x14 Dunlop Formula R's (basically slicks) OLD

>I ran at Phillip Island for the first time with the "new" car... GREAT
>power and speed... topped 200kph for the first time!! wow.. what a
>buzz into T1 at about 170 kph.. but. .and this is where it starts to
>suck :-)

>I was running tire pressures of about 40psi front, 34 psi rear... Now
>normally that would give me a good handling car (according to the car
>b4)..

>BUT.. the car UNDERSTEERED more that it has ever!!!! Just ***
>steering..!!!

>wouldn't turn.. and just kept pushing wide :-( REALLY
>dissapointing.. The LSD must have upset it, but with new tires,, I
>would have expected it to be OK.. but it was DIABOLICAL..

>I know there must be some ppl with experiece of racing here on this
>Newgroup.. even tho it is for Simulations (plz excuse) but I need help
>from experieced drivers.. and I'm sure there are a few here... anyone
>race a Front wheel drive Super Tourer?? :-)

>I am thinking of simply stiffening the rear springs and shocks, that
>should help, the front does even have a roll bar, so that isn't an
>option...

>ANY help would be cool..

>Thanx

>James Pickard,
>Melbourne,
>AUSTRALIA

by **S Johns** » Fri, 25 Jun 1999 04:00:00

On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:12:49 +1000, James Pickard

>BUT.. the car UNDERSTEERED more that it has ever!!!! Just ***
>steering..!!!

Sounds like you don't have enough roll control in the front of the car
with the sticky Hoosiers, because either:

a)Your front suspension is bottoming out, giving you in effect an
infinite spring rate in the front, or

b)You're now getting positive caster on the outside front wheel from
suspension deflection and roll angle.

I think you're heading in the wrong direction here.

Read these articles:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

And especially http://www.racesimcentral.net/
where Mike Kojima says:

"Before anyone flames me for possibly running a big front bar in
stock class in a car that understeers, the reason for doing so is that
sometimes a big bar alone can reduce understeer! It can do it by
reducing roll which reduces negative camber loss under roll, which in
turn will keep the wheels flatter on the road giving the tires more
grip. This trick has the best chance of working on McPherson strut
cars that lean a lot under cornering, just like our cars! The
additional understeer caused by the bars weight transfer can be
eliminated by adding toe-out in the front and rear. This will handle
really crappy on the street with all the toe out, but I have set up a
winning FWD D stock cars like that and it worked very well. "

-Scott Johnson

by **Easy Rid** » Fri, 25 Jun 1999 04:00:00

On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:12:49 +1000, James Pickard

>I know there must be some ppl with experiece of racing here on this
>Newgroup.. even tho it is for Simulations (plz excuse) but I need help
>from experieced drivers.. and I'm sure there are a few here... anyone
>race a Front wheel drive Super Tourer?? :-)

>I am thinking of simply stiffening the rear springs and shocks, that
>should help, the front does even have a roll bar, so that isn't an
>option...

>ANY help would be cool..

>Thanx

>James Pickard,
>Melbourne,
>AUSTRALIA

Simply add leathers seats and a racing stripe and it should increase
your lap times by at least 0.0000000000 seconds! Na really if you
pull out the back and front seats and replace them with a bean bag
chair your lap times will increase due to less weight! Also might
try going on a diet yourself for even a bigger increase in speed!
Also might try inflating the tires with helium that will really make
it fly!

For more info go to:
www.frontwhelldrivesarefor***ts.com

by **Target** » Sat, 26 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Before you go ripping on him, learn how to spell first Ace. Whell, ***t.
LOL. You should at least know how to spell ***, because you're acting like
one.

by **Rob Adla** » Sat, 26 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Increasing negative camber transformed my AWD car (WRX RA) - 4.25 degrees
front, 2.5 rear. 240kW helps it to rear-wheel steer well too!! :))
I would normally soften the front suspension, rather than harden the rear
to help counter understeer, but as the Alfasud's have already a lot of body
roll you may be better off stiffen the rear.
Sorry, no first hand knowledge. Only Alfasud I've seen racing was driven
by a lunatic who was too 'brutal' with the steering, which of course made it
understeer even more! I'm sure it's just coincidence, but I'm sure his
surname was Pickett or something similar! :)
Best of luck.

--

Rob.