rec.autos.simulators

Having seen a number of posts recently from people wishing to tighten their
bungee cords in T2 & Nascar Pros etc, and to ensure their steering wheels
re-centre perfectly I offer the alternative view.

My original wheel was a home-made effort modifying a flight yoke by
effectively bolting on a steering wheel & using rudder pedals.

This wheel had effectively zero resistance - which I have used for several
years.

Eventually I decided to get a proper wheel with gear lever (for GPL) and
proper pedals - so I now have a Thrustmaster Formula One (Nascar Pro).

However I have found the resistance annoying and have removed the bungee
cord.

Surely this is unrealistic?

However - consider this. When the back end of the car is stepping out and
you apply opposite lock should you receive the same resistance as when
cornering at low speeds. No - you are turning into the direction the car is
taking - not away from it.

Similarly when the front wheels lose grip the steering lightens - not so
with a constant resistance wheel.

Somehow it just feels wrong to me to be unable to flick on the opposite
lock because of the same resistance as applying more lock into a corner
without sliding.

As the majority of the time in GPL the car is sliding the resistance from
such a wheel is incorrect - therefore I would rather not have it all.

I guess the only answer is for a wheel that varies the resistance driven by
the software, which I would imagine is an advanced form of force feedback
and would also imagine to be expensive!

As for knowing whether the wheel is straight for me it is not a problem - I
don't need the wheel to tell me I have straightened up - I can see & feel
that!

Cheers

Tony

l8er
ronny

--
Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure,
kiddo?"

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Here is my take on this:
When using a spring (linear or otherwise) the force is a function of
position (wheel angle).  If you want the force to be a function of the rate
at which you turn the wheel (angular velocity) some type of damping must be
applied.  (This is how I would go).  This can be friction but I think a
hydraulic or pneumatic damper would be far more effective.  Friction often
has a "slip - stick" effect.  If you want to have the feedback force be a
function of acceleration, you have to increase the mass of the system.

Thanks
Jed

Mmm, but how many times do you find yourself saying just one more lap at
GPL!!!

I'm way out of touch with Arcade developments, sticking to PC sims.
Although I am well aware these developments will filter through to PC
software & hardware as the capabilities of PCs grow & grow.
The problem for us sim fans is the software created for arcade is not
designed for us.
I'm not sure whether force feedback wheels will be able to satisfy our
requirements for the forseeable future.

Tony

I don't think this is the point. The force shouldn't be a function of the
turning rate, but it should depend on the situation of the car at that
particular
moment. That is, if your back is stepping out, an opposite steering
correction
is natural in accordance to the car's momentum, so there shouldn't be any
force fighting against that. However, the same movement of the wheel in
another
situation (like a slow corner or under severe understeer) should be a
struggle.
The only way to achieve this is force feedback AFAIK. The programming
shouldn't be too difficult; some of the arcade force feedback systems are
doing this quite well, actually. The major problem at the moment is that
the
hardware for a good FF wheel is just too expensive to make a reasonably
priced
wheel. A pitty...

Jussi

Thats exactly what I meant

Cheers

Tony

% The only way to achieve this is force feedback AFAIK. The programming
% shouldn't be too difficult; some of the arcade force feedback systems are
% doing this quite well, actually. The major problem at the moment is that
% the
% hardware for a good FF wheel is just too expensive to make a reasonably
% priced
% wheel. A pitty...

I think there are some "short-comings" in the current version of MS's
force-feedback package that is causing major developers from pursuing
this avenue.  I know that Thrustmaster has a FF wheel design that they
feel comfortable with (and could sell at a decent price and still make a
profit), but are not pushing for developement yet.  They just don't feel
that there is enough "reality" in the FF package.  Papyrus has stated
the same thing when asked about FF in GPL.  I would hope that TM and
Papy are working together to come up with something, as it would really
enhance GPL.  Both have seen fit to fix Microsloth's Direct Input for
the game port (TM's ProPanel & Papy's optimized setting in GPL).
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

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