rec.autos.simulators

>i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while.  What does
>everyone think about it?

>i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while.  What does
>everyone think about it?  Is it good force feedback?  How are the pedals?

>>i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while.  What does
>>everyone think about it?  Is it good force feedback?  How are the pedals?

>I gave the wheel a test spin about 3 months ago. I took it back to the
>store because of the problems I (and everyone else) had getting it to
>calibrate in NR1999 (DOS). However I gave it a spin in F1RS and CPR
>(the latter comes with the wheel).

>>Are they vertical or horizontal?  Is the base well designed and heavy
>enough
>>to stay down?

>These are the best pedals on the market. I never had any problems with
>them movine at all. They are more vertical & very comfortable for me.

>>Hows the clamping system.

>I is a gigantic swing arm clamp which is top rate. I had to remove my
>keyboard drawer to get it to work.

>>Does the wheel have the right feel
>>to it?  Are the paddles good?

>Wheel yes, pedals *NO*.  I did not like them at all. In fact I probably
>would have returned the unit even if it worked with NR1999. I found
>it very awkward to drive and keep your fingers on the paddles while
>driving in F1RS at Suzuka. The constant shifting required was very
>difficult as the paddles are not very ergonimic. The Logitech wheel
>would be much better in this respect. I actually snapped "something"
>in both of my wrists while driving F1RS. Very bad at least for me.

>>Just a general review and maybe a comparison
>>to other wheels.  I am also looking at the act labs force wheel but not
>sure
>>which to go by.  I can get the MS FF for cheaper though.

>You never asked about FF effects!!!!! The FF in F1RS is absolut top
>rate. It was exactly what I was looking for. The trick is to set autocenter
>to 1/4. Then you can feel the wheel loosen up when your front tires
>lose traction. The wheel will tighten up as you gain adhesion. Also
>as I said in the GPL thread, I crashed and "burst" one of my front tires.
>I was completely shocked at the awesome FF effect for this. So my
>opinion of FF in F1RS is that it was an awesome "experience".
>Couple that with 3D positional sound and you have one heck of
>a game :-) I had to get that in there... Oh also these FF effects
>should make driving in the rain better as you can tell if you have
>adhesion or not :-) Haha.

>FF in CPR: You would expect the game that came with the
>wheel to kick some ***(I certainly did). Well the FF in CPR
>sucks as bad as the CPR game itself. Every FF effect seemed
>like a major shunt impact  type of thing. The game was just horrible.
>Probably worse than Nascar Revolution.

>Well that's it. Hopefully you foind some useful advice here. I am still
>not sure what I am going to do for a FF wheel. I suppose I am going
>to wait for N3 (which damn well better use those digital wheel/
>controllers) then make a decision. I do think the Logitech wheel
>is the best looking of the bunch, and it feels awesome. The only
>problem is that I heard many people complain about light FF
>effects and cheap crappy pedals.
>--

>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>I am committed to GPL as as a) I was heavily into Jim Clark and Chris Amon
>when I was 12 years old (in 1967), and b) it wipes the floor with
everything
>else (IMHO) in terms of fun, realism, skill, ongoing development of
>competence etc. I am an averagely good driver (not enough practice) with
>consistent 1.07s at the Glen, and consistent 1.30s at Monza.

>So I didn't need good FF,  BUT the good thing about the MS wheel is with
the
>Force switched on (and set to maximum in software) you get quite a nice
>progressive resistance to the wheel and a very positive return to centre.
>(It's a little bit noisy and grainy feeling but you get used to it
quickly.)
>I am able to set my steering fully linear, and use 14% and 15% settings in
>my setups with ease.

>Wheel: comfortable, very nice grip material, good angle, simple clamping.
>Probably quite robust, although clearly not as tough and well engineered as
>TSW, EDDS etc.

>Paddles: these are a bit small but they are reachable with fingertips and
>are very positive. There are six programmable buttons on the front. I have
>them as follows: Left top to bottom: 1 - clutch, 2 - look left, 3 - raise
>arm; Right top to bottom: 4 - Esc, Return (to get back to the pits etc),
5 -
>look right, 6 - Shift R. The buttons are all easily reachable with the
>thumbs.

>Pedals: As they come, they are not vertical enough for me and they can
slide
>around. The accelerator is fine: good spring tension, nice throw. The brake
>is unusable (by me) without modification. I have made the following simple
>changes: Half a squash ball (Dunlop yellow dot) fits beautifully (without
>glue!) under the brake pedal and completely transforms it. You need to
>calibrate it first with the full throw, then stick the squash ball in and
>you have a brake pedal you can push hard with just the right amount of
>travel and a progressive firming up. I have mounted the pedals, with double
>sided carpet tile tape, onto an angled MDF plinth, very simple just two
bits
>of MDF screwed together, giving an incline of about 17%, and butted it up
>against the wall. This produces rock solid action at just the right angle.
>Complete construction and installation of this took about half an hour.

>Conclusion: whenever I change equipment I have to get used to the new kit,
>and that was true of this wheel, but overall I'm very happy with the MS FF
>and my time are improving. I'm looking forward to my first sub 1m06 at the
>Glen and my first sub 1m26 at Zandvoort!

>Tim Leighton

>>Hey there,

>>i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while.  What does
>>everyone think about it?

>Jesse

>>hI there
>>I recently changed from a Digital Edge F1 Sim Compact, which was OK but
had
>>an annoying tendency to shift calibration as I drove, and the pedals were
>>too basic. I decided to buy an MS FF wheel. I am very pleased.
>>I don't know how good the force feedback is: the only games I tried
>>(briefly) were the ***that came bundled with the wheel, and the Viper
>>demo. Frankly it didn't seem very realistic, but I didn't get the pull to
>>the left which some reviewers complain about.

>>I am committed to GPL as as a) I was heavily into Jim Clark and Chris Amon
>>when I was 12 years old (in 1967), and b) it wipes the floor with
>everything
>>else (IMHO) in terms of fun, realism, skill, ongoing development of
>>competence etc. I am an averagely good driver (not enough practice) with
>>consistent 1.07s at the Glen, and consistent 1.30s at Monza.

>>So I didn't need good FF,  BUT the good thing about the MS wheel is with
>the
>>Force switched on (and set to maximum in software) you get quite a nice
>>progressive resistance to the wheel and a very positive return to centre.
>>(It's a little bit noisy and grainy feeling but you get used to it
>quickly.)
>>I am able to set my steering fully linear, and use 14% and 15% settings in
>>my setups with ease.

>>Wheel: comfortable, very nice grip material, good angle, simple clamping.
>>Probably quite robust, although clearly not as tough and well engineered
as
>>TSW, EDDS etc.

>>Paddles: these are a bit small but they are reachable with fingertips and
>>are very positive. There are six programmable buttons on the front. I have
>>them as follows: Left top to bottom: 1 - clutch, 2 - look left, 3 - raise
>>arm; Right top to bottom: 4 - Esc, Return (to get back to the pits etc),
>5 -
>>look right, 6 - Shift R. The buttons are all easily reachable with the
>>thumbs.

>>Pedals: As they come, they are not vertical enough for me and they can
>slide
>>around. The accelerator is fine: good spring tension, nice throw. The
brake
>>is unusable (by me) without modification. I have made the following simple
>>changes: Half a squash ball (Dunlop yellow dot) fits beautifully (without
>>glue!) under the brake pedal and completely transforms it. You need to
>>calibrate it first with the full throw, then stick the squash ball in and
>>you have a brake pedal you can push hard with just the right amount of
>>travel and a progressive firming up. I have mounted the pedals, with
double
>>sided carpet tile tape, onto an angled MDF plinth, very simple just two
>bits
>>of MDF screwed together, giving an incline of about 17%, and butted it up
>>against the wall. This produces rock solid action at just the right angle.
>>Complete construction and installation of this took about half an hour.

>>Conclusion: whenever I change equipment I have to get used to the new kit,
>>and that was true of this wheel, but overall I'm very happy with the MS FF
>>and my time are improving. I'm looking forward to my first sub 1m06 at the
>>Glen and my first sub 1m26 at Zandvoort!

>>Tim Leighton

>>>Hey there,

>>>i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while.  What does
>>>everyone think about it?

>Sounds pretty good.

>Jesse

>>>Hey there,

>>>i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while.  What does
>>>everyone think about it?  Is it good force feedback?  How are the pedals?

>>I gave the wheel a test spin about 3 months ago. I took it back to the
>>store because of the problems I (and everyone else) had getting it to
>>calibrate in NR1999 (DOS). However I gave it a spin in F1RS and CPR
>>(the latter comes with the wheel).

>>>Are they vertical or horizontal?  Is the base well designed and heavy
>>enough
>>>to stay down?

>>These are the best pedals on the market. I never had any problems with
>>them movine at all. They are more vertical & very comfortable for me.

>>>Hows the clamping system.

>>I is a gigantic swing arm clamp which is top rate. I had to remove my
>>keyboard drawer to get it to work.

>>>Does the wheel have the right feel
>>>to it?  Are the paddles good?

>>Wheel yes, pedals *NO*.  I did not like them at all. In fact I probably
>>would have returned the unit even if it worked with NR1999. I found
>>it very awkward to drive and keep your fingers on the paddles while
>>driving in F1RS at Suzuka. The constant shifting required was very
>>difficult as the paddles are not very ergonimic. The Logitech wheel
>>would be much better in this respect. I actually snapped "something"
>>in both of my wrists while driving F1RS. Very bad at least for me.

>>>Just a general review and maybe a comparison
>>>to other wheels.  I am also looking at the act labs force wheel but not
>>sure
>>>which to go by.  I can get the MS FF for cheaper though.

>>You never asked about FF effects!!!!! The FF in F1RS is absolut top
>>rate. It was exactly what I was looking for. The trick is to set
autocenter
>>to 1/4. Then you can feel the wheel loosen up when your front tires
>>lose traction. The wheel will tighten up as you gain adhesion. Also
>>as I said in the GPL thread, I crashed and "burst" one of my front tires.
>>I was completely shocked at the awesome FF effect for this. So my
>>opinion of FF in F1RS is that it was an awesome "experience".
>>Couple that with 3D positional sound and you have one heck of
>>a game :-) I had to get that in there... Oh also these FF effects
>>should make driving in the rain better as you can tell if you have
>>adhesion or not :-) Haha.

>>FF in CPR: You would expect the game that came with the
>>wheel to kick some ***(I certainly did). Well the FF in CPR
>>sucks as bad as the CPR game itself. Every FF effect seemed
>>like a major shunt impact  type of thing. The game was just horrible.
>>Probably worse than Nascar Revolution.

>>Well that's it. Hopefully you foind some useful advice here. I am still
>>not sure what I am going to do for a FF wheel. I suppose I am going
>>to wait for N3 (which damn well better use those digital wheel/
>>controllers) then make a decision. I do think the Logitech wheel
>>is the best looking of the bunch, and it feels awesome. The only
>>problem is that I heard many people complain about light FF
>>effects and cheap crappy pedals.
>>--

>>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>>cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>Wheel yes, paddles *NO*.  I did not like them at all. In fact I probably
>would have returned the unit even if it worked with NR1999. I found
>it very awkward to drive and keep your fingers on the paddles while
>driving in F1RS at Suzuka. The constant shifting required was very
>difficult as the paddles are not very ergonimic. The Logitech wheel
>would be much better in this respect. I actually snapped "something"
>in both of my wrists while driving F1RS. Very bad at least for me.

>F1RS unrealistic? Haha that is a good one alright.

>Oh boy here we go again.

>--

>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>>(and from you f1rs) are totally a different game with FF.

>>Sounds pretty good.

>>Jesse

>>>>Hey there,

>>>>i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while.  What does
>>>>everyone think about it?  Is it good force feedback?  How are the
pedals?

>>>I gave the wheel a test spin about 3 months ago. I took it back to the
>>>store because of the problems I (and everyone else) had getting it to
>>>calibrate in NR1999 (DOS). However I gave it a spin in F1RS and CPR
>>>(the latter comes with the wheel).

>>>>Are they vertical or horizontal?  Is the base well designed and heavy
>>>enough
>>>>to stay down?

>>>These are the best pedals on the market. I never had any problems with
>>>them movine at all. They are more vertical & very comfortable for me.

>>>>Hows the clamping system.

>>>I is a gigantic swing arm clamp which is top rate. I had to remove my
>>>keyboard drawer to get it to work.

>>>>Does the wheel have the right feel
>>>>to it?  Are the paddles good?

>>>Wheel yes, pedals *NO*.  I did not like them at all. In fact I probably
>>>would have returned the unit even if it worked with NR1999. I found
>>>it very awkward to drive and keep your fingers on the paddles while
>>>driving in F1RS at Suzuka. The constant shifting required was very
>>>difficult as the paddles are not very ergonimic. The Logitech wheel
>>>would be much better in this respect. I actually snapped "something"
>>>in both of my wrists while driving F1RS. Very bad at least for me.

>>>>Just a general review and maybe a comparison
>>>>to other wheels.  I am also looking at the act labs force wheel but not
>>>sure
>>>>which to go by.  I can get the MS FF for cheaper though.

>>>You never asked about FF effects!!!!! The FF in F1RS is absolut top
>>>rate. It was exactly what I was looking for. The trick is to set
>autocenter
>>>to 1/4. Then you can feel the wheel loosen up when your front tires
>>>lose traction. The wheel will tighten up as you gain adhesion. Also
>>>as I said in the GPL thread, I crashed and "burst" one of my front tires.
>>>I was completely shocked at the awesome FF effect for this. So my
>>>opinion of FF in F1RS is that it was an awesome "experience".
>>>Couple that with 3D positional sound and you have one heck of
>>>a game :-) I had to get that in there... Oh also these FF effects
>>>should make driving in the rain better as you can tell if you have
>>>adhesion or not :-) Haha.

>>>FF in CPR: You would expect the game that came with the
>>>wheel to kick some ***(I certainly did). Well the FF in CPR
>>>sucks as bad as the CPR game itself. Every FF effect seemed
>>>like a major shunt impact  type of thing. The game was just horrible.
>>>Probably worse than Nascar Revolution.

>>>Well that's it. Hopefully you foind some useful advice here. I am still
>>>not sure what I am going to do for a FF wheel. I suppose I am going
>>>to wait for N3 (which damn well better use those digital wheel/
>>>controllers) then make a decision. I do think the Logitech wheel
>>>is the best looking of the bunch, and it feels awesome. The only
>>>problem is that I heard many people complain about light FF
>>>effects and cheap crappy pedals.
>>>--

>>>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>>>cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>F1RS unrealistic? Haha that is a good one alright.

>Oh boy here we go again.

>--

>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>>(and from you f1rs) are totally a different game with FF.

>>Sounds pretty good.

>>Jesse

>>>>Hey there,

>>>>i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while.  What does
>>>>everyone think about it?  Is it good force feedback?  How are the
pedals?

>>>I gave the wheel a test spin about 3 months ago. I took it back to the
>>>store because of the problems I (and everyone else) had getting it to
>>>calibrate in NR1999 (DOS). However I gave it a spin in F1RS and CPR
>>>(the latter comes with the wheel).

>>>>Are they vertical or horizontal?  Is the base well designed and heavy
>>>enough
>>>>to stay down?

>>>These are the best pedals on the market. I never had any problems with
>>>them movine at all. They are more vertical & very comfortable for me.

>>>>Hows the clamping system.

>>>I is a gigantic swing arm clamp which is top rate. I had to remove my
>>>keyboard drawer to get it to work.

>>>>Does the wheel have the right feel
>>>>to it?  Are the paddles good?

>>>Wheel yes, pedals *NO*.  I did not like them at all. In fact I probably
>>>would have returned the unit even if it worked with NR1999. I found
>>>it very awkward to drive and keep your fingers on the paddles while
>>>driving in F1RS at Suzuka. The constant shifting required was very
>>>difficult as the paddles are not very ergonimic. The Logitech wheel
>>>would be much better in this respect. I actually snapped "something"
>>>in both of my wrists while driving F1RS. Very bad at least for me.

>>>>Just a general review and maybe a comparison
>>>>to other wheels.  I am also looking at the act labs force wheel but not
>>>sure
>>>>which to go by.  I can get the MS FF for cheaper though.

>>>You never asked about FF effects!!!!! The FF in F1RS is absolut top
>>>rate. It was exactly what I was looking for. The trick is to set
>autocenter
>>>to 1/4. Then you can feel the wheel loosen up when your front tires
>>>lose traction. The wheel will tighten up as you gain adhesion. Also
>>>as I said in the GPL thread, I crashed and "burst" one of my front tires.
>>>I was completely shocked at the awesome FF effect for this. So my
>>>opinion of FF in F1RS is that it was an awesome "experience".
>>>Couple that with 3D positional sound and you have one heck of
>>>a game :-) I had to get that in there... Oh also these FF effects
>>>should make driving in the rain better as you can tell if you have
>>>adhesion or not :-) Haha.

>>>FF in CPR: You would expect the game that came with the
>>>wheel to kick some ***(I certainly did). Well the FF in CPR
>>>sucks as bad as the CPR game itself. Every FF effect seemed
>>>like a major shunt impact  type of thing. The game was just horrible.
>>>Probably worse than Nascar Revolution.

>>>Well that's it. Hopefully you foind some useful advice here. I am still
>>>not sure what I am going to do for a FF wheel. I suppose I am going
>>>to wait for N3 (which damn well better use those digital wheel/
>>>controllers) then make a decision. I do think the Logitech wheel
>>>is the best looking of the bunch, and it feels awesome. The only
>>>problem is that I heard many people complain about light FF
>>>effects and cheap crappy pedals.
>>>--

>>>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>>>cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>>>Does the wheel have the right feel
>>>to it?  Are the paddles good?

>>Wheel yes, paddles *NO*.  I did not like them at all. In fact I probably
>>would have returned the unit even if it worked with NR1999. I found
>>it very awkward to drive and keep your fingers on the paddles while
>>driving in F1RS at Suzuka. The constant shifting required was very
>>difficult as the paddles are not very ergonimic. The Logitech wheel
>>would be much better in this respect. I actually snapped "something"
>>in both of my wrists while driving F1RS. Very bad at least for me.

> Jesse