rec.autos.simulators

I'm a bit annoyed at how computer drivers take turns in their "frenzy" to pass
me during races. Mainly, they sometimes tackle     corners at full speed,
making a sharp 90 degree turn (still at full speed)at the apex, and exiting the
 turn nicely. I wouldn't be able to attempt sth similar w/o backing-off the
accelerator or crashing my car.
For those of you who don't believe me, try Laguna Seca, turns 5, 6 and 10.
(look into the manual). Those are high speed corners which one can go through
just by lifting-off the accelerator. Turn 6 can even be taken w/o releasing
the throttle (at ~140 mph). However, completing the turn at this speed requires
that you follow the tire-marks on the tracks.                          ^^^^^^^^
It seems that computer drivers couldn't care less about that. If we are side
by side before tackling turn 6, I will follow a clean line throughout the curve
The computer car (being on the interio side of the bend) will turn at a sharp
angle, which results in both cars crashing into each other at the apex (You're
still with me?)
The computer car, feeling that it won't pass me, should stay behind me and
follow a clean line throughout the curve, respecting somewhat the skid-marks.

I think this is a serious flaw in ICR's AI. Any comments or opinions?
Thanks,
       Jacqueline

: I'm a bit annoyed at how computer drivers take turns in their "frenzy" to pass
: me during races. Mainly, they sometimes tackle     corners at full speed,
: making a sharp 90 degree turn (still at full speed)at the apex, and exiting the
:  turn nicely. I wouldn't be able to attempt sth similar w/o backing-off the
: accelerator or crashing my car.
: For those of you who don't believe me, try Laguna Seca, turns 5, 6 and 10.
: (look into the manual). Those are high speed corners which one can go through
: just by lifting-off the accelerator. Turn 6 can even be taken w/o releasing
: the throttle (at ~140 mph). However, completing the turn at this speed requires
: that you follow the tire-marks on the tracks.                          ^^^^^^^^
: It seems that computer drivers couldn't care less about that. If we are side
: by side before tackling turn 6, I will follow a clean line throughout the curve
: The computer car (being on the interio side of the bend) will turn at a sharp
: angle, which results in both cars crashing into each other at the apex (You're
: still with me?)
: The computer car, feeling that it won't pass me, should stay behind me and
: follow a clean line throughout the curve, respecting somewhat the skid-marks.
:  
: I think this is a serious flaw in ICR's AI. Any comments or opinions?
: Thanks,
:        Jacqueline

YES!!!!
I love IndyCar Racing, but stuff like this REALLY bugs me!
Look at the replays sometimes.  I have found cars passing
THROUGH other cars.  If I try that, I end up kissing the wall!
Also, at Michigan, I have tried to pit two times recently and
some IDIOT is in MY pit.  I therefore have to come to a dead halt,
while this loser uses my pit and puts me back I don't know how many
seconds, sometimes even a full lap after I have been leading!

        Jeffrey K. Stier

                Waiting For IndyCar Racing version 1.10

  The AI really does suck!  Watching replays I've seen cars coming into
the pits and when one car slows down to pit another car still going full
speed will go right through the slowing car!.  I hate that,
I wish they could improve the AI a bit.  I'd buy a whole new copy if it
had a reasonable AI to race with.  

                                   /<evin

--

Cloud 9 Internet

: YES!!!!
: I love IndyCar Racing, but stuff like this REALLY bugs me!
: Look at the replays sometimes.  I have found cars passing
: THROUGH other cars.  If I try that, I end up kissing the wall!
: Also, at Michigan, I have tried to pit two times recently and
: some IDIOT is in MY pit.  I therefore have to come to a dead halt,
: while this loser uses my pit and puts me back I don't know how many
: seconds, sometimes even a full lap after I have been leading!

:       Jeffrey K. Stier

:               Waiting For IndyCar Racing version 1.10

YES !  too...

The AI of the opponents is very poor.
It happened to me in Michigan, that when i came to the pit and
i was changing tires, someone crashed at high speed (prob. 30mph)
into my back and it was all over (after 1 hour of racing)

Another problems - many crashes caused by opponent cars,
incredible driving lines (I noticed Portland 1st corner is intresting),
opponents (especially Portland) are capable of running at the same speed
from 1st lap 1st corner to the pit window, cars locked in the pit line.
Big problem is created by cars rapidly loosing speed without any reason.

The biggest bug in ICR i noticed is making mistakes by counting laps.
(I`m 100% sure about that) It happens to me sometimes, when i`m off the
pace in the race and i`m making a pit stop. After pits computer shows,
that i lost 1 min and 25 sec to the leader and replay shows that i lost
only 45 sec. (Michigan) It may have something to do with using reverse
gear in the pits, but i didn't proove it.
It is probably affecting those opponents who are on the lead lap, but
have few backmarkers between them and the leader. They lose one lap
after pit window.

I remember - few years ago - i saw the game INDIANOPOLIS 500.
This game has suffered from the same problems as ICR with one
exception - it probably didn't allow computer steered cars to
pass through the others (there were more good looking accidents).

I wouldn`t wonder if the people from Papyrus just have bought the
licence for INDIANAPOLIS 500 and created ICR by only enhancing the
graphics and using 32bit environment.

Maybe someone has got both games and can compare the artific. intellig.
they are using. I think both are using the same code (little modified
in ICR to lower the CPU load by not checking all colissions.

: : YES!!!!
: : I love IndyCar Racing, but stuff like this REALLY bugs me!
: : Look at the replays sometimes.  I have found cars passing
: : THROUGH other cars.  If I try that, I end up kissing the wall!
: : Also, at Michigan, I have tried to pit two times recently and
: : some IDIOT is in MY pit.  I therefore have to come to a dead halt,
: : while this loser uses my pit and puts me back I don't know how many
: : seconds, sometimes even a full lap after I have been leading!

: :     Jeffrey K. Stier

: :             Waiting For IndyCar Racing version 1.10

: YES !  too...

: The AI of the opponents is very poor.
: It happened to me in Michigan, that when i came to the pit and
: i was changing tires, someone crashed at high speed (prob. 30mph)
: into my back and it was all over (after 1 hour of racing)

: Another problems - many crashes caused by opponent cars,
: incredible driving lines (I noticed Portland 1st corner is intresting),
: opponents (especially Portland) are capable of running at the same speed
: from 1st lap 1st corner to the pit window, cars locked in the pit line.
: Big problem is created by cars rapidly loosing speed without any reason.

: The biggest bug in ICR i noticed is making mistakes by counting laps.
: (I`m 100% sure about that) It happens to me sometimes, when i`m off the
: pace in the race and i`m making a pit stop. After pits computer shows,
: that i lost 1 min and 25 sec to the leader and replay shows that i lost
: only 45 sec. (Michigan) It may have something to do with using reverse
: gear in the pits, but i didn't proove it.
: It is probably affecting those opponents who are on the lead lap, but
: have few backmarkers between them and the leader. They lose one lap
: after pit window.
:      
: I remember - few years ago - i saw the game INDIANOPOLIS 500.
: This game has suffered from the same problems as ICR with one
: exception - it probably didn't allow computer steered cars to
: pass through the others (there were more good looking accidents).

: I wouldn`t wonder if the people from Papyrus just have bought the
: licence for INDIANAPOLIS 500 and created ICR by only enhancing the
: graphics and using 32bit environment.

: Maybe someone has got both games and can compare the artific. intellig.
: they are using. I think both are using the same code (little modified
: in ICR to lower the CPU load by not checking all colissions.

:  
Papyrus wrote indy500 too - ICR was their long awaited followup

That's unbelievable.  You quoted 3 pages worth of stuff just to add 2
sentences.  Learn how to cut text.  If someone can't follow the thread
then stay off the net.

I think Indy500 is the better game.  The ICR AI really sucks the bag.  
ICR has many flaws, but Indy500 has few.

The main problem is that the AI cars don't take advantage of yellow
flags.  Several times the track will go green only to have the AI cars
start pitting 5 laps later for fuel.  They never come in during the
yellow for fuel (unless they were already scheduled for that lap anyway).

The second problem is that cars will drop out of the race during a yellow
flag.  Watch the next time the yellow flies.  It's almost guaranteed that
a car will come into the pits never to return to the track again.  
Several times it will be a car that was running perfectly healthy, then
just drops out.

Other than that, Indy500 is a pretty solid game.  The point was brought
up before that the AI is better in Indy500 because they only had to make
it for 1 track.  With ICR they had to write ai for 16 tracks.  They did a
VERY bad job in ICR.

Papyrus made them both, but really screwed the 2nd one up real bad.

Uh, if it's so easy, why don't you just whip out a patch for ICR and
just fix it for us?   Yeah the AI goes nuts at Long Beach and probably
some other tracks, but I don't generally criticize others until I can
do a better job...

--

Brian Wong                              Product Marketing Engineering

415-336-0082                            Palo Alto, CA 94303