rec.autos.simulators

Hi all, just found this group and hope someone can help answer these
questions.
I have GPL coiming in 21 days (xmas morn)
I have a p133 with 32 mb ram l512kb cache ati expert 8 meg direct X card
and pci 128 soundblaster.

Will I be able to run the game and enjoyu it.
I have a couple of options. I can upgrade ram easily to 64, also I can
upgrade to p233mmx for about $150 cdn. P2 costs are considerably higher
and I would really have to justify spending a lot just for this game.

Any comments would be appreciated.

thanks

Tony K (canada)

Tony,

Even the outrageously low min-requirements on the GPL box call for more
CPU than you've currently got. Minimum you will need new M/B CPU, Video
Card (8 mb Rendition if you stay <= 233MMX), & another 32 mb RAM would
probably help, too. Even at that, you probably will not be able to run
against more than about 5 cars at about 1/4 -> 1/2 graphic detail. Try
the demo with your current system, then calculate that the full game
will run about 10 times slower.
Plus, if you don't already have one, you're going to need a halfway
decent wheel to get ANY enjoyment out of this sim - note this is not a
game, it is a way of life (for most people who are still using it after
a couple of weeks).

Hope you've been a REAL good boy this year, 'cause you letter to Santa
just got a whole lot longer.

Good luck,

Randy

Thanks for your advice. Already have a wheel, T2 but have MS FFW on order.
***ed to Gp2 so not sure how the wife will adjust to the "new addition" to
our family.

Tony

You better start mentally adjusting for justifying the costs. A P133 with
32MB might _just_ do if you don't know about any better. However, I think
you need a 3DFX or a Rendition card to get any 3D acceleration.

--
Anssi Lehtinen

I suggest that you rather spend the money on upgrading your PC than on the
MSFF. It sure is a nice wheel, but regarding your current system there's
more important stuff to get.

Oh, yeah, and WELCOME to r.a.s.

Mea***er

Yeah, you'd be better off spending the three bills on more horsepower or
graphics right now. It's a great wheel (I have one, myself) but you
won't get the most out of it in GPL till you've practised for a while -
unless you're truly gifted :) It took me about a month (of GPL) to
really feel the need to upgrade from my 2 year old T2.

Randy

Absolutely... I had a P166 with a voodoo II card, almost all all graphics
turned off but still didn't have enough horse power to run races & found it
defeated the point of having GPL. Now have a 450A, with PCI SB Live! & GPL
rocks :-))

order.

Appreciate everyones comments and suggestions. I will probably upgrade to p2
266, however, just got a good offer on p2 266 celeron, anyone have any
experience with it?
As for the MS force FB, the price is so good I cannot pass up. (friend of a
friend of a friend who distributes the wheel)

Tony

   Prior to upgrading I had a P133, 32 meg, and a Rendition V1000
video card, so I was just a notch ahead of you.  You can probably
*just* run the game, but you are going to need more CPU and video to
really enjoy the game.  Specifically...

CPU - to really enjoy the game, you should have a 350+ MHz Pentium II
running with 100 MHz FSB.  Not an option for you.  I ended up with an
Intel Celeron 300A (overclockable to 450 MHz), an Abit BH6
motherboard, 64 meg of PC100 memory, and a new ATX case.  You can find
this for about $400US.  Still probably not an option.  The P233MMX you
mention will help, and offers good "bang for the buck" (assuming you
can do a simple drop-in substitution in your current motherboard,
double check this).  But with the P233 be prepared to either turn down
graphics resolution and options or the number of computer car
opponents.

Video card - while GPL has a software rasterizer mode, you really
*need* a 3D card for decent frame rates.  GPL comes with support for
3Dfx or Rendition video cards (there is also beta Riva TNT support,
but that isn't quite up to par yet).  These cards are either 2D-3D
(which would replace your current video card) or 3D-only (which would
do only 3D while your current video card does 2D).  This limits you to
basically four chipsets:

1) 3Dfx Voodoo2 (3D-only) - the best card for fast computers (~400+
MHz).  Overkill (for a P133 or P233) and probably too expensive for
your needs.

1B) 3Dfx Banshee (2D-3D) - 3D is similar to the Voodoo2 (more memory,
slightly reduced features).  Decent choice for all-around ***
(about $130US?).

2) Rendition V2200 (2D-3D) - the best card for slower computers.  Look
for the Hercules Thriller 3D.  8 meg is significantly faster than the
4 meg version.  I got a Thriller 8meg/AGP (also comes in PCI) and I am
happy with it.  A white-box (OEM) version goes for as low as $90US.
Also see the Genoa Raptor card.

2B) Rendition V2100 (2D-3D) - inferior to the V2200 (slower chipset
and only 4 meg), but the Diamond Stealth S220 is a superb value - as
low as $40US minus a $30 rebate from Diamond (I don't know about the
rebate in Canada).  This would probably give you the best bang for the
buck with GPL.

3) 3Dfx Voodoo1 (3D-only) - older, less capable technology, but worth
considering if money is tight or you can find a cheap used card.  If
you are happy with your current 2D card and are using a P133-233, this
is probably the best bang for the buck.

4) Rendition V1000 (2D-3D) - ditto, and I would consider the V2100
before this (more capable and probably as cheap).

One other note on video chipsets -- 3Dfx has widespread support in the
current *** market.  If you play other games, it would be the best
choice.  Rendition has weak support, although it is well-supported by
Papyrus racing sims.  It's a good choice if that is your primary
interest.

   So...  If keeping to a minimum budget is essential, the P233 and a
Voodoo1 or Rendition V2100 (depending on if you want to keep your
current video card or not) seem to be the best choice.  For $250CAN or
so you'd have a much more enjoyable GPL experience.  Good luck!

NAR Northeast Regional Contest Board site - points and more...

Tony.
Don't touch the 266 celeron. It lacks the onboard cache (and runs slower than a
233mmx). This cache is essential to in GPL to get good framerates. Go for the
300A.(not simply the 300).

BTW the 300A has the same core as a P2 450 with a smaller cache running at twice
the speed of a 450. Effectively this means that you can o/c this chip with little
or no danger to it.

Mark

   No No No No!!!!

There are four Celerons:

266 - early 266 MHz model with no on-board level 2 cache.  AVOID!
(much slower)  When these chips first came out, their low performance
gave the Celeron a bad name.  Fairly good success overclocking to 400
MHz.

300 - early 300 MHz model with no on-board level 2 cache.  AVOID!
(much slower)  (not sure about overclockability)

300A - later 300 MHz model with 128k on-board level 2 cache that runs
at full CPU speed.  (A standard Pentium II's cache is 512k, but it
runs at 1/2 processor speed.  As a result, the cached Celerons
performance is roughly equivalent to the PII.)  75-90% of these chips
can be successfully overclocked to 450 MHz.  See Tom's Hardware or
Anand Tech for details.  There are some retailers now that will sell
Celerons *guaranteed* to run at 450 MHz (for a price).

333 - later 333 MHz model with 128k on-board level 2 cache that runs
at full CPU speed.  The disadvantage to this chip is that, while
slightly faster than the 300A, it is reported that there is *much
less* success overclocking this chip.

   The m***- buy the 300A, no question.  The 266 may be half the
price (for the chip alone), but you will get significantly lower
performance.  And when you consider the full price of the upgrade
(CPU+MB+mem+case), you are giving away a lot of performance for very
little savings.

   Good luck with your upgrade.

NAR Northeast Regional Contest Board site - points and more...

The celeron 266 has *no* cache, spend the extra on a Celeron 300A
(with 128k cache) and overclock it to 450.

8-)

*Peter*   #:-)

For slightly more $$ than the MSFFW (around $150 these days?), you could
pick up both a PII mobo (BX chipset please) and Celeron 300a (about $100
bucks each for the processor and motherboard).  By doing a very little
research, you could attempt to overclock to 450 megahertz with a decent
possibility of success.  The mere thought that you are considering upgrading
to a P233 hurts me.  Seriously, please reconsider how you allocate your
system upgrade funds - you'll do better by upgrading your base system in all
games (and apps too, but no one should use computers for anything other than
games).

--
Philip M. D'Amato

"You can observe a lot just by watchin'"
--The Inimitable Yogi Berra