rec.autos.simulators

by **Chen T. Le** » Sat, 14 Jan 1995 16:59:11

Hello, all

I have a question which you may be able to help....
I have a friend who would like to purchase a bullet-proof Toyota Land Cruiser
to use in South America. We asked the local Toyota Dealer and they have no
idea where to find someone that can customize the car to be bullet-proof.
Can someone give me a pointer on this? Any company that is specialized in
such conversion? Please e-mail me since I don't check this newsgroup often.
Thank you very much.

Charles Lee

by **Jay Jenki** » Sat, 14 Jan 1995 22:58:53

>Subject: bullet-proofing vehicle
>Date: 13 Jan 95 07:59:11 GMT
>Hello, all
>I have a question which you may be able to help....
>I have a friend who would like to purchase a bullet-proof Toyota Land Cruiser
>to use in South America. We asked the local Toyota Dealer and they have no
>idea where to find someone that can customize the car to be bullet-proof.
>Can someone give me a pointer on this? Any company that is specialized in
>such conversion? Please e-mail me since I don't check this newsgroup often.
>Thank you very much.
>Charles Lee

That's easy Charles, just go into the setup menu and turn 'DAMAGE' off.
(hey, this is rec.autos.simulators here, isn't it?)

jAY

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jay Jenkins Just MY You don't see
Naval Surface Warfare Center opinion no hearses with
Dahlgren, VA 22448-5000 of course. luggage racks.

by **Haman Je** » Sun, 15 Jan 1995 00:25:56

I saw a TV report several years back on a company that modified cars for
Governments/Movie stars etc. Someone may remember the name of the
company.

They have several categories. Shatter proof glass (but not bullet proof),
bullet-proof glass and body panels (major bucks, and your windows will
NOT roll down - I think about $6000 USD), and the ultimate, bomb proof -
you can roll over a landmine (practically) - I would not care to imagine
how much the armor plating will affect performance.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

by **Rick Colom** » Sun, 15 Jan 1995 01:01:01

> Hello, all

> I have a question which you may be able to help....
> I have a friend who would like to purchase a bullet-proof Toyota Land Cruiser
> to use in South America. We asked the local Toyota Dealer and they have no
> idea where to find someone that can customize the car to be bullet-proof.
> Can someone give me a pointer on this? Any company that is specialized in
> such conversion? Please e-mail me since I don't check this newsgroup often.
> Thank you very much.

> Charles Lee

There's a customizing shop in Schaumburg, Ill. that specializes in building
stretch limos and they will add as much armor as you can afford. If you're
not in the Chicago area, look in the phone book for a similar shop.

RC

by **Patrick Albert Cel** » Sun, 15 Jan 1995 00:17:43

Have you tried calling the local office of the Secret Service?

by **David Hai** » Sun, 15 Jan 1995 06:58:12

I'm 99.423% positive that it is illegal to bullet-proof any private vehicle
in the USA. Its even illegal to own one. I've been to a private Ford museum
where they had a blullet-proof 1964 Lincoln Limo on display with a message
stating that it was on loan from the US Gov. because of this problem.

Other than that, review several old Car magazine articles about how various
Saudi Arabian princes armor-up their favorite go-fast 4WD. They add _lots_
of weight to the car with all the protection that is put on. It is also
_very_ expensive, since the windows go from 1/4" thick to 2" thick.
It is not a simple process. Doors have to be rebuilt, body removed for
under-floor armor, etc.

Wear a flak jacket and an old army helmet.

--
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------/

/-------------------------------------------------------------------------/

by **Eric Pawtows** » Tue, 17 Jan 1995 13:54:57

>I'm 99.423% positive that it is illegal to bullet-proof any private vehicle
>in the USA. Its even illegal to own one. I've been to a private Ford museum
>where they had a blullet-proof 1964 Lincoln Limo on display with a message
>stating that it was on loan from the US Gov. because of this problem.

No, it is *NOT* illegal to armor a car. Banks have armored cars.
It's perfectly legal to purchase an old APC. And there is nothing wrong
with armoring a normal car in typical "concealed" fashion- so that it
looks like a normal car still (although the windows will tend to be
thicker and won't roll down anymore).

It's illegal to mount fixed
weapons on a car, but you can armor it up to you're heart's content.
You can even put in gunports, smoke generators, and oil dispensers.
Although the last two are illegal to *use*, they are perfectly legal to
own.

Popular science did an article a few years ago on a company in Texas that
armored cars. I don't know what issue, but if you start looking though
back issues at the local library, you can probably find it eventually.

I recall they said the usual problem is that armor makes many cars so
heavy that they often perform poorly. They perfer to armor trucks
(A Toyota Land Cruiser would be ideal) because they have greater
capacity to handle the weight. Their cargo capability will be severely
reduced, though.

--

Technicon 12- March 31-April 2, 1995, Blacksburg, VA
SF&F returns to the New River Valley!

by **Mark Whitm** » Tue, 17 Jan 1995 13:52:36

: Hello, all

: I have a question which you may be able to help....
: I have a friend who would like to purchase a bullet-proof Toyota Land Cruiser
: to use in South America. We asked the local Toyota Dealer and they have no
: idea where to find someone that can customize the car to be bullet-proof.
: Can someone give me a pointer on this? Any company that is specialized in
: such conversion? Please e-mail me since I don't check this newsgroup often.
: Thank you very much.

I seem to remember that in Car and Driver (sometime in '94), there was an
article about a Lingenfelter Suburban (they put a 650hp/750ft/lb engine
in it, and got a Suburban frmo 0-60 in 4.6!!!). They made some kind of
comment about the Texas highway patrol getting a vehicle of that kind
bullet proofed. Given the surface area of a Suburban, it must weigh
10,000+lbs to make it solidly butllet-proof. Anyway, just a thought. YMMV

See ya'
Mark Whitmer

by **Eric Jacobs** » Sun, 15 Jan 1995 07:05:58

Since you're posting this to rec.autos.simulators, I'll assume that this is a
simulation problem that can be solved in software. Perhaps making the
variables you use for window thickness long ints instead of uchars, or perhaps
even use floats (unless you have a Pentium), will allow you to beef them up
enough to be bulletproof. I suppose it may depend on what precision you are
using for the bullet simulation.

Hope that helps.

-------------------------------------------------------------

EF Data Corp. Vox: (602)968-0447
2105 W. 5th Pl. Fax: (602)921-9012
Tempe, AZ 85281

My employer snickers heartily at my opinions.
-------------------------------------------------------------

by **Et3 Dona** » Wed, 18 Jan 1995 14:36:03

Bullet-proofing a vehicle is NOT illegal, there are various places to have it
done, but it is expensive, and makes the car VERY HEAVY.

D 70stang'

by **Simon L** » Sat, 21 Jan 1995 10:13:26

: Bullet-proofing a vehicle is NOT illegal, there are various places to have it
: done, but it is expensive, and makes the car VERY HEAVY.

Isn't there some film type of material (kevlar?) that can be applied to the
windows so that just the glass is bulletproof? You could probably put
the same material under the sheetmetal of the doors and frame too.
Kevlar can be clear, so visibility wouldn't be too bad, for the sides, and
just use thicker glass/resin material for the front and back. Layer the
metal with this stuff, and you've got a lightweight armored vehicle.
When I say kevlar, I mean the same type of material used in newer bulletproof
vests.

--
* Simon Lee * Sun * Ball Technology *

* (619) 457-5555 ext 4282 * PC * San Diego, CA *
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

by **Stephen H. West** » Sun, 22 Jan 1995 06:38:34

> I'm 99.423% positive that it is illegal to bullet-proof any private vehicle
> in the USA. Its even illegal to own one. I've been to a private Ford museum
> where they had a blullet-proof 1964 Lincoln Limo on display with a message
> stating that it was on loan from the US Gov. because of this problem.

Um, what museum are you talking about? The 1961 Lincoln in which
Kennedy was killed is sitting in Henry Ford Museum, across the street
from where I'm sitting in Dearborn, Michigan. The museum is not owned
by Ford, by the way; it and Greenfield Village are owned by The Edison
Institute, which was set up by Henry. The museum also has the 1942
Chrysler used by Roosevelt, as well as the 1950 Lincoln used by Truman
and Eisenhower and a later Lincoln of the '70s used by Nixon &
Ford. End-to-end, they take up a lot of space :).

What's interesting about the claim about "loan from the US Gov." is
that the government never owned the Lincolns (I'm not sure about the
Chrysler). During their time of service, they were leased by Ford to
the government at, shall we say, friendly prices. On retirement, they
were donated by Ford to the museum.

<snip>
--
-Stephen H. Westin

The information and opinions in this message are mine, not Ford's.

by **Eric Pawtows** » Mon, 23 Jan 1995 10:37:47

>just use thicker glass/resin material for the front and back. Layer the
>metal with this stuff, and you've got a lightweight armored vehicle.
>When I say kevlar, I mean the same type of material used in newer bulletproof
>vests.

Have you ever worn one of those vests? They're "lightweight" *only*
when you're comparing them to the sorts of armor mideval knights wore.

When you take a car to have it armored, kevlar and other light-weight
plastics and ceramics *are* used. That is why the resulting armored
car is *only* "very heavy". If you used steel, you won't have a heavy
car, you'd have a statue that looks like a car with both axles split and
the wheels crushed. Armor is *heavy*, no matter what you make it out
of.

The only vehicles that use steel as armor are military tanks and APC's.
And even *those* frequently use aluminum and kevlar as armor compenents,
partially to keep the weight down, partially to counter the effectiveness
of some armor-piercing amunitions.

Eric
--

Technicon 12- March 31-April 2, 1995, Blacksburg, VA
SF&F returns to the New River Valley!

by **Graeme Lem** » Tue, 24 Jan 1995 19:21:50

>Subject: Re: bullet-proofing vehicle
>Date: 20 Jan 1995 21:38:34 GMT

>> I'm 99.423% positive that it is illegal to bullet-proof any private vehicle
>> in the USA. Its even illegal to own one. I've been to a private Ford museum
>> where they had a blullet-proof 1964 Lincoln Limo on display with a message
>> stating that it was on loan from the US Gov. because of this problem.
>Um, what museum are you talking about? The 1961 Lincoln in which
>Kennedy was killed is sitting in Henry Ford Museum, across the street
>from where I'm sitting in Dearborn, Michigan.

I'm sure there's a Lincoln (ex Nixon?) in the Towe Ford Museum in Sacramento.
I was there in December 93, and we had a good look at the car. The Director
of the museum is a very friendly guy named Ernie Hartley, and I'm sure he
could help out with further info on this car.

Graeme

by **Dirk Bro** » Tue, 24 Jan 1995 21:58:00

>> I'm 99.423% positive that it is illegal to bullet-proof any private vehicle
>> in the USA. Its even illegal to own one. I've been to a private Ford museum
>> where they had a blullet-proof 1964 Lincoln Limo on display with a message
>> stating that it was on loan from the US Gov. because of this problem.

I'm sure anyone who can afford it can get bullit proof glass. At an autoshow a
few years ago (new cars at the DC convention center) there was a display by a
limo maker. As an option to the limos where bullit proof glass - they showed a
sample with 3 or 4 bullets imbedded in the glass. The glass was infact a
plastic (plexi-glass?) and the bullits appeared to have "melted" their way
though about 1/2 of the glass. This leads me to believe that the right bullet
from the right rifle would still penetrate. Teflon bullet in a 7mm case?

Besides, I can see the government worry about weapons - but for them to want to
not only disarm but to unshield the general population would seem to be extreme
.

There is a company in Florida that makes Kevlar reinforced fiberglass body
parts. If you want they will make them from 100% Kevlar - making it bullet
"proof" and light weight. A front clip for a car would run about $1300 last
time I check (compated to $700 for fiberglass).

Dirk