rec.autos.simulators

by **Steve Smit** » Wed, 05 Feb 2003 22:26:50

Frank Siebeck's magnificent version (laguna95) of Laguna Seca is, in my
not-so-humble opinion, the finest track that has ever been produced for GPL.

It is dead accurate, as near as I can tell. I've spectated there often, and
rented the track for 2 days some years ago to make a Chevy commercial with
Phil Hill, and logged literally hundreds of laps, both as Phil's passenger
and chasing him with the camera car. (Siebeck's is the penultimate track
layout, not the one with the recent revisions to T11.)

Not only is the track map accurate, but the soaring, swooping, diving
elevation changes are, too. The Corkscrew is hard to get right, but
Siebeck, et al., have nailed it. The surfaces, textures, traction, gravel
traps, buildings and off-track objects are also correct (flags wave gaily in
the breeze), as are Simon Stobbart's northern California skies and horizon
(exactly what I would have chosen). The signage is letter-perfect.

There is so much detail, in fact, that the track is a CPU eater...but I
wouldn't have it any other way. I'd rather get a new mobo than turn down
any of this lovely detail.

Also great is Paul Jackson's sample replay, showing the way the track
*should be* driven: aggresively yet with amazing grace. I haven't been able
to get within 10 seconds of his time (a 1:27.02), despite having spent all
yesterday at the track. Above all else, this track is fun to drive; the
best GPL driving experience ever.

The default setups are excellent, altho I prefer much closer gear ratios,
and need higher tire pressures ('cuz I'm obviously not driving hard enuf to
work the proper heat into 'em).

I tried a couple of AI races (after turning down the RELS a coupla clicks),
and the AI is excellent as well. Passing is not going to be easy online,
but I expect this track will quickly become a popular favorite on VROC.

If I had to find a minor fault with this track, I don't remember the
downhill left (T9) being quite as tricky as it is here. But I fully expect
to see many reprises of Zanardi's historic move on Herta (the best pass of
the 20th century) enacted in the preceding Corkscrew.

See you at the races.

--Steve Smith

by **G_Mone** » Thu, 06 Feb 2003 02:37:19

I agree, I am having a blast on this track! They are working on reducing
the draw distance and
getting smaller textures to offset some of the problems people, myself
included, are having with
frame rate. Particularly on the first lap at T2 and coming around rainy
curve(?) after the corkscrew.

Regardless, I have waited a long time for this track. My best soar is
1:34:36 in the Ferrari.

geo

by **Eldre** » Thu, 06 Feb 2003 08:39:38

>Also great is Paul Jackson's sample replay, showing the way the track
>*should be* driven: aggresively yet with amazing grace. I haven't been able
>to get within 10 seconds of his time (a 1:27.02), despite having spent all
>yesterday at the track. Above all else, this track is fun to drive; the
>best GPL driving experience ever.

Paul Jackson?!? That guy is overdue for his return trip on the mothership.
I'm in a league with him, and he's MILES ahead of everyone else in laptimes...
Amazing...

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:-0.381
N2002 Rank:+17.59

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Peter Ive** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 09:52:43

msn.com> writes

<snip>

Have you had a look at his replay? That driving line looks a bit dodgy
after the s/f line though. Surely it would have been instance
disqualification in a real race. Pity a traffic cone or 2 wasn't added
around that area to prevent it happening.

Far too much front brake bias and, like you say, the gear ratios seem
too far apart (I haven't even gotten into 5th gear in the Lotus). Also
the camber is way off.

<snip>
--
Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington)
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email
If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :)
GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

by **The Carvalho Famil** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 12:30:05

>>Frank Siebeck's magnificent version (laguna95) of Laguna Seca is, in my
>>not-so-humble opinion, the finest track that has ever been produced for

>GPL.

>>It is dead accurate, as near as I can tell. I've spectated there often,...

>>There is so much detail, in fact, that the track is a CPU eater...but I
>>wouldn't have it any other way. I'd rather get a new mobo than turn down
>>any of this lovely detail...

>>See you at the races.

>>--Steve Smith

>I agree, I am having a blast on this track! They are working on reducing
>the draw distance and
>getting smaller textures to offset some of the problems people, myself
>included, are having with
>frame rate. Particularly on the first lap at T2 and coming around rainy
>curve(?) after the corkscrew.

>Regardless, I have waited a long time for this track. My best soar is
>1:34:36 in the Ferrari.

>geo

I hope those reading this thread aren't put off trying the track because
of the texture-load affecting frame rates. I get a bit of a frame-rate
hit on my old 600mHz Celeron with a Voodoo 3 2K; but this track's so
gorgeous it's worth looking at even if you can't race it.

I also happen to agree with Peter Ives' setup comments:

Far too much front brake bias and, like you say, the gear ratios seem
too far apart (I haven't even gotten into 5th gear in the Lotus). Also
the camber is way off

Jim

by **Haqsa** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 12:51:55

Not sure which chassis you guys are using, but the Ferrari default was not
even designed for that track. Having just driven Brands Hatch a few minutes
before trying Laguna, I noticed that both tracks had the exact same default
setups for the Ferrari. Same author? Anyway there was more diff lock than
I could handle, even though I usually like a pretty tight diff. I ended up
having to tweak just about everything. Not that it did much good, the track
is undriveable on my CPU. Pretty though.

by **Steve Smit** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 22:33:23

So yer saying that it's not a great track because PJ has a bobble and still
turns a 1:27 or because some people prefer a more realistic fwd. brake bias?

> msn.com> writes

> <snip>

> >> Also great is Paul Jackson's sample replay, showing the way the track
> >> *should be* driven: aggresively yet with amazing grace. I haven't been
> >able
> >> to get within 10 seconds of his time (a 1:27.02), despite having spent
all
> >> yesterday at the track. Above all else, this track is fun to drive;
the
> >> best GPL driving experience ever.

> Have you had a look at his replay? That driving line looks a bit dodgy
> after the s/f line though. Surely it would have been instance
> disqualification in a real race. Pity a traffic cone or 2 wasn't added
> around that area to prevent it happening.

> >> The default setups are excellent, altho I prefer much closer gear
ratios,
> >> and need higher tire pressures ('cuz I'm obviously not driving hard
enuf
> >to
> >> work the proper heat into 'em).

> Far too much front brake bias and, like you say, the gear ratios seem
> too far apart (I haven't even gotten into 5th gear in the Lotus). Also
> the camber is way off.

> <snip>
> --
> Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington)
> Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email
> If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :)
> GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

by **Steve Smit** » Fri, 07 Feb 2003 22:38:01

Whose Brands? Curiously, I drove Laguna 95, Dave Noonan's old Brands
(admittedly not very realistic), and the Brands that's available for the NH
mod "Ferrari Challenge" all in the same morning and marvelled at how similar
the British track is to Laguna. I'm not surprised the setups are likewise
similar, but doubt that any two setups in this trio (and/or Brandsindy) were
done by the same individual(s).

> Not sure which chassis you guys are using, but the Ferrari default was not
> even designed for that track. Having just driven Brands Hatch a few
minutes
> before trying Laguna, I noticed that both tracks had the exact same
default
> setups for the Ferrari. Same author? Anyway there was more diff lock
than
> I could handle, even though I usually like a pretty tight diff. I ended
up
> having to tweak just about everything. Not that it did much good, the
track
> is undriveable on my CPU. Pretty though.

> > I hope those reading this thread aren't put off trying the track because
> > of the texture-load affecting frame rates. I get a bit of a frame-rate
> > hit on my old 600mHz Celeron with a Voodoo 3 2K; but this track's so
> > gorgeous it's worth looking at even if you can't race it.

> > I also happen to agree with Peter Ives' setup comments:

> > Far too much front brake bias and, like you say, the gear ratios seem
> > too far apart (I haven't even gotten into 5th gear in the Lotus). Also
> > the camber is way off

> > Jim

by **Haqsa** » Sat, 08 Feb 2003 08:54:58

It was Brands for GPL, which I guess is probably Noonan's. Perhaps both
authors downloaded the setup from somebody else?

by **Ped Xin** » Sat, 08 Feb 2003 09:16:57

BTW- Steve, you mentioned "the pass" by Zanardi. How about the one Mika
Hakkinen put on M. Schumacher at Spa in 2000, splittig a back-marker? That
one was pretty spectacular, too, I'd say. Zonta had to be freaked out
seeing that.

by **Steve Smit** » Sat, 08 Feb 2003 20:28:54

That's gotta be the world's oldest setup (except for my grandmother's dinner

some major changes from the default, but I've ascribed that to my fondness
for oddball setups (wildly asymmetrical, for example), which is why I
stopped giving setup advice. But I have to admit the brake bias is a little
too forward for even my purist taste (I don't do simultaneous brake+throttle
'cuz my heros wouldn't've). As a dead-keen devotee of close ratios, I'm
thrilled that I can pack all the gears within 800 rpm or so of each other.
Makes the car sound as racy as the 6-speeds in GTR & NH's FC.

> It was Brands for GPL, which I guess is probably Noonan's. Perhaps both
> authors downloaded the setup from somebody else?

> > Whose Brands? Curiously, I drove Laguna 95, Dave Noonan's old Brands
> > (admittedly not very realistic), and the Brands that's available for the
> NH
> > mod "Ferrari Challenge" all in the same morning and marvelled at how
> similar
> > the British track is to Laguna. I'm not surprised the setups are
likewise
> > similar, but doubt that any two setups in this trio (and/or Brandsindy)
> were
> > done by the same individual(s).

by **Peter Ive** » Sun, 09 Feb 2003 21:36:51

Sorry Steve, it is a great track, no doubt about it. I was replying to
the quotes where guys couldn't get close to the 1:27 laptime and was
just saying that, if you look at the line after the s/f then it appears
that your going to have to drive a completely unrealistic line in order
to be quick here.

If you prefer more brake bias then fine, it's just not for me.

BTW, where did I criticise the track?

>message

>> msn.com> writes

>> <snip>

>> >> Also great is Paul Jackson's sample replay, showing the way the track
>> >> *should be* driven: aggresively yet with amazing grace. I haven't been
>> >able
>> >> to get within 10 seconds of his time (a 1:27.02), despite having spent
>all
>> >> yesterday at the track. Above all else, this track is fun to drive;
>the
>> >> best GPL driving experience ever.

>> Have you had a look at his replay? That driving line looks a bit dodgy
>> after the s/f line though. Surely it would have been instance
>> disqualification in a real race. Pity a traffic cone or 2 wasn't added
>> around that area to prevent it happening.

>> >> The default setups are excellent, altho I prefer much closer gear
>ratios,
>> >> and need higher tire pressures ('cuz I'm obviously not driving hard
>enuf
>> >to
>> >> work the proper heat into 'em).

>> Far too much front brake bias and, like you say, the gear ratios seem
>> too far apart (I haven't even gotten into 5th gear in the Lotus). Also
>> the camber is way off.

--
Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington)
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email
If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :)
GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

by **Tony Rickar** » Mon, 10 Feb 2003 06:14:26

> Frank Siebeck's magnificent version (laguna95) of Laguna Seca is, in my
> not-so-humble opinion, the finest track that has ever been produced for GPL.

Yes, it is excellent. No doubt the most significant release of the week :)

Cheers
Tony

rec.autos.simulators

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