rec.autos.simulators

The CART web page has announced new licensing deals to promote it
merchandise and the series. The following is a copy from the announcement:

One license that has been announced is a multi-year Video Games license
with Sony to develop an exclusive CART racing game for the companys very
successful PlayStation system.

"Its a great tribute to CART when a company the stature of a Sony the
No.1-selling game hardware manufacturer in the world - chooses to work
directly with CART than through the usual third-party developers to create
a game," said Hollander. "It indicates to us they really understand the
tremendous potential CART offers as one of the only U.S.-based sports
entities that has true worldwide consumer appeal."

I guess this brings up a question: What does this mean for the future of
ICR3? If CART has a deal with Sony, does this mean that Papyrus/Sierra will
not/can not be allowed to continue the ICR series? This sounds like a deal
familiar to the Sega/Daytona track contract to me. I for one hope that this
is not the case and that Papyrus will still be able to develop and release
a new version of ICR, based on the CART series, in the near future. Jim, if
you read this, could you please give us some insight on this?

Eric Giles

Team Rahal in '97!

I read this also, and for those of us PC-platform racers, we have only
two faint hopes here.

1) The term of the contract doesn't begin for another year or two,
giving the Papyrus guys (or anyone else) the chance to release one
more IndyCar (Indy car?) game in the interim.

2) The term "exclusive" was loosely tossed around in this release,
perhaps referring to the console-platforms only.

I have my doubts about both of these hopes.  It sounds to me like the
CART franchise has sold out to the highest bidder, and at the risk of
opening myself to serious flaming, I can't say that I blame them.
Wait, let me explain!

As all fans of CART know, they are undergoing arguably the most
difficult period ever.  This announcement, for those curious, had
little to do with the software portion of their business, and much
more to do with the marketing of the CART franchise, which has been
officially taken over by the same man who promoted the 1996 Olympics
in Atlanta.  The software simulation portion of CART's business is
miniscule compared to everything else, but you will see "exclusive"
deals made for every facet of their business from here on.

Signing with Sony made sense, if only for the reason that the
Playstation is superior technically to anything we have available in
the PC market right now, in addition to being uniformly, widely
distributed.  I'm lucky, because I work in software development and I
have access to very powerful computers, but many people in R.A.S.
complain about ICR2, GP2 and N2 because of the limits of their
hardware at home.  In defense of Papyrus, much of their coding and
de-bugging time is spent on making the sim run on the plethora of
machines out there.  Sony will have the luxury of focusing on
features, not cross-platform issues.  The outcome to our little
dilemma (provided neither of my first two "wishes" comes to fruition)
may well be one or several of the following:

1) Papyrus focuses instead on IRL.  I know this is not an appealing
outcome for many of us, but give it time.  This may turn out to be a
great racing series, and it may not.  It may vanish altogether.  At
any rate, if you're a fan of open-wheel sim-racing, you may have this
option for ovals, and GP2 for road and street racing.

2) Sony's game may actually kick ass.  They will likely go the route
of simplified issues such as physics models and setup options, or
maybe they'll make a two-tiered structure where you can decide to use
the very realistic physics model or the "arcade" version.  Be sure of
one thing, though.  The game will DEFINITELY contain a non-sim racing
mode to help the average kid enjoy the program.  You don't have a
Playstation?  Neither do I, and so what.  Brand-new, they don't cost
much more than the 3-D Rendition cards, and total up your overall
computer system cost and there's no comparison.  Maybe we can go back
to using computers for what they were intended, like Quicken and Word,
and spend $300.00 on a new Playstation every 3 years!

3) This last outcome seems very farfetched, but who knows?  Papyrus
can create something called "OpenWheel" using all of the tracks they
have already coded, just changing the names, and give us all generic
cars, much like half of the roster we get with the game anyway.  They
can code the newer tracks like Rio and Miami and just give them
different names, including utilities to rename the tracks if we
choose.  This way Papyrus can stay in the game by using technologies
like force-feedback and 3-D acceleration, and not violate the Sony
exclusive agreement.  It is rather risky legally, however.

Cheers,

Pooch

                                          O-iiiii-O

Just my opinion
Craig Jacobson

deal

I believe up are right. It means that Papy may be forced to go with the IRL
(YUCK). It really sucks when capatalist licensing gets in the way of a good
game. All that licensing ***in the back of the NASCAR2 manual is enough
to ***a horse. What a freaking joke.

I'm going to get down on me knees and cry if Papyrus/Sierra doesn't make
an upgrade to ICR2, especially with network support.  The only reason I'm
playing N2 right now is because it has network support.  I can only
slip-slide around in these Nascar hogs for so long before I start yawning
( and driving a stock car at The Glen and Sears Point is a crime).

-Marty Fay

Matt Lewis

Maybe, maybe not.  After all, Sony/Psygnosis Formula One WILL be out
this spring for PC's using 3D acceleration and with all respect to GP2,
in several ways it will kick GP2's hiney. (I own the Playstation version
as well as GP2).

Formula One was a huge success.  They have a lot of feedback from which
to draw for the development of a CART-based sim.  If they apply the
feedback they got from Formula One, this sim may be stunning.

I'll leave the rest, but I will say that after seeing the DirectDraw
version of ICR2 and the hurried release of ICR2-Rendition, I don't get
the sense Sierra/Papyrus is too keen to continue investing into ICR the
same way they are doing with NASCAR.  I had given up on getting a new
Indy Car sim.  So to me getting this news that Bizzarre Creations is
going to do one for the Playstation is only good news.

Randy

I couldn't agree more.
I think you're agreeing with me here.  The only difference between the
GP and ICR situation, however, was the use of the word "exclusive" in
the press release by CART.  It is obvious that no one has an exclusive
agreement with F1 as there are so many different releases out there by
different companies.
Let's hope so.

I'm not quite as optimistic as you, but I'm nowhere near the
doom-and-gloom of others is R.A.S.  I don't think Papyrus would bother
to release a five-track enhanced version of ICR unless they were
planning on bringing the whole package forward.  (Unless, of course,
it was just a ploy to sell their own 3-D card.  Hmmmmm.)

Cheers,

Pooch

                                          O-iiiii-O

I'm not quite as optimistic as you, but I'm nowhere near the

Bingo.  Its called OEM-hell.  Even before the Sierra Screamer-3D came
out Intergraph shipped ICR2-3D for its Reactor board.  In my opinion
this was done for 2 reasons:

a) a pet project to get Papyrus developers up to speed on the Rendition
support -- a guinea pig as it were.
b) a possible royalty or flat fee from Intergraph and/or Rendition, who
needed 'demo-ware' to bundle with their card

As such, it really doesn't say ANYTHING to me about future plans for
ICR2.  If anything, it might just be table scraps.  I'm just guessing
that Papyrus used the knowledge they got from enhancing ICR2 in order to
get Rendition support into N2 in a good timeframe.

Randy

Second, I doubt that Indycar2 3D was the product of nefarious ulterior
motives.  This game, all by itself, is a polished, highly optimized
program for the Rendition video cards.  Just because they get added
marketing by packaging this game with Rendition cards does not mean they
plan to***you out of anything now or in the future.
--
Matt Lewis

I agree, and I accept it.  In fact, if there was never another release
of an IndyCar sim, the one I have could keep me busy for years.  I
have no complaints.

Again, I agree.  "Denied?"  I do not feel entitled to anything.  If
YOU reread our posts, you'll see we are simply speculating on the
future of Papyrus' involvement in IndyCar sims based on the use of the
word "exclusive" in CART's press release regarding the Sony
Playstation.  If you're curious, the announcement can be found at:
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

I didn't say it was nefarious, I merely suggested that it wouldn't
make sense for Papyrus to invest a lot of time in creating a
partially-enhanced ICR unless they planned to pursue it further.  I
then literally, in mid-post, realized that they did indeed have an
incentive, the release of their own card.  Randy, quite wisely,
pointed out that there may be another incentive, getting some practice
on their existing software engine in preparation for the NASCAR2 3-D
capabilities.  These are not indications of Papyrus trying to***
anyone, merely justifications (speculative, I admit) for why Papyrus
would put any effort into a product for which they may no longer own
the rights.

I hope I cleared that up.  My apologies, Randy, if I have misquoted or
misrepresented you.

Cheers,

Pooch

                                          O-iiiii-O

   I read the announcement...Buried within talk of this an that is, sure
enough, the word "exclusive"...They must not know much about racing sims...they
talk about the future Sony product as if it's the most realistic thing since
Radio Shack scanners (you have to own one to understand)...When it will
actually probably be a reversed-engineered Sega Daytona USA...The world of the
console game is all about graphics, speed (sensation of, not frame rate), and
"vroom, vroom" sounds...Little or no attention is paid to realism, be it
graphical (look at Sega's "stock cars"), or physical (reeely realistic physics
model in DUSA)...But, alas, Sony's got de dough, we're probably out of a good,
realistic CART (the series formerly known as IndyCar) sim for a few
years...CanAm anyone?

Bill Jenkins

http://www.wiu.edu/users/muwtj1
The Chevrolet Beretta Home Page

 "vroom, vroom" sounds...Little or no attention is paid to realism, be
it  graphical (look at Sega's "stock cars"), or physical (reeely
realistic physics model in DUSA).

I've heard wonderful things about the physics model in Sega Rally, but I
don't know enough to evaluate that aspect. I *can* tell you that NASCAR
is just as full featured on the Playstation as it is on the PC, and that
the Formula One sim has an incredibly good physics model and 17 Formula
One tracks that make GP2's look sick (as well as inaccurate).  Believe
it or not, the demographics for machines like the Playstation are going
UP, not down, and as older, more mature gamers get involved with them,
and they get more powerful, companies start putting more into the
physics models and realism aspects than they used to.

..But, alas, Sony's got de dough, we're probably out of a good,

I was actually pretty optimistic about this until I heard that Sony
Interactive, and not Bizzarre Creations (the people who brought us
F1/PSX) are doing the sim.  Now I'm skeptical that perhaps your worst
fears will be borne out....simply because a group like Bizzarre is very
passionate about their racing sims and did an incredible job simulating
Formula One, and I think they would bring a lot to the table.  Sony
should give THEM the job of doing the CART sim, and not giving it to a
group whose enthusiasm for racing is dubious.

Randy

Not at all.

Randy