rec.autos.simulators

Steering wheels

Fraser Mun

Steering wheels

by Fraser Mun » Tue, 07 Feb 1995 00:33:40

I was just wondering if anyone has had experience with steering
wheel devices. I reckon that there is no point in investing wads
of money in a state-of-the-art pc for racing simulations if the
input device is no good.

I used to run F1GP with keys but you really had to run traction
control and with steering help, the car had the feeling as if
it was on rails.

I have seen the Thrustmaster T1 but was not too impressed - no
semi-automatic gearbox, and I didn't like the wheel design.
The ARP ( is that right? ) from Simulation Systems sounds quite
good - if anyone has any experience of using one then please tell
me about it. In particular, I will want to play F1GP, IndyCar and
NASCAR with it - are the 'pots' accurate, what is the general feel
and do the gear switches work O.K.???

Also, what is the price, who do I get it from and is it available
in the U.K. Normally the U.K. price is a direct conversion of
$ to pounds and I would probably be willing to pay up to 150.
Does anyone have an email for Simulation Systems?

Fraser.

T. Anthony Joh

Steering wheels

by T. Anthony Joh » Tue, 07 Feb 1995 01:32:10


>I have seen the Thrustmaster T1 but was not too impressed - no
>semi-automatic gearbox, and I didn't like the wheel design.
>The ARP ( is that right? ) from Simulation Systems sounds quite
>good - if anyone has any experience of using one then please tell
>me about it. In particular, I will want to play F1GP, IndyCar and
>NASCAR with it - are the 'pots' accurate, what is the general feel
>and do the gear switches work O.K.???

I was convinced to shell out the extra cash for an ACP after returning the T1
after only one day of use, and there's NO way I'd go back to joystick racing
now.. it is a TERRIFIC wheel.  If you want information on the ACP, call Mike
Shiflett at 1-800-647-7623 ext. 13.

--
T. Anthony Johns

Paul Grazia

Steering wheels

by Paul Grazia » Wed, 08 Feb 1995 02:17:08


Extra  cash for the ACP?  Wow, I thought the T1 was pricey.  Approx how
much is this ACP?  I was thinking about picking up a T1, now I'm even
more hesitant.

What about the cheap flight yokes?  I've seen them for as little as
$45?  Is this any better than a joystick?

I'm not really a total cheapskate, but I did just upgrade to a 486dx2
mainly to run NASCAR!  I'm not sure how much the wife is gonna let me
get away with...

---
~Paul


Brian Wong - SMCC Product Marketing Engineeri

Steering wheels

by Brian Wong - SMCC Product Marketing Engineeri » Fri, 10 Feb 1995 18:27:50



>>I have seen the Thrustmaster T1 but was not too impressed - no
>>semi-automatic gearbox, and I didn't like the wheel design.
>>The ARP ( is that right? ) from Simulation Systems sounds quite
>>good - if anyone has any experience of using one then please tell
>>me about it. In particular, I will want to play F1GP, IndyCar and
>>NASCAR with it - are the 'pots' accurate, what is the general feel
>>and do the gear switches work O.K.???

>I was convinced to shell out the extra cash for an ACP after returning the T1
>after only one day of use, and there's NO way I'd go back to joystick racing
>now.. it is a TERRIFIC wheel.  If you want information on the ACP, call Mike
>Shiflett at 1-800-647-7623 ext. 13.

I've got quite an array of stuff now.  I have a cheapo joystick, a pretty
good one (Wingman Extreme), a yoke (very temporary), a Thrustmaster T1,
and the Simulation Systems ACP.  First, for serious racing, ditch the
cheapo joysticks.  The yoke (an Addison 'The Controller') is somewhat
better than a cheap joystick and not as good as the Wingman Extreme stick
(which is pretty good, but also not cheap at $50 or so).  the Wingman
Extreme has enough buttons that you can do manual shift up and down
in addition to braking, which is important on road courses (ie F1GP
or ICR).  All of these are in a completely different class than the wheels.

For oval racing, I think the Thrustmaster T1 is the best.  It uses right-foot
braking, has a semi-auto stick shift (meaning that it's really a stick that
is off to the side), and has FAR better control than any of the sticks or
yokes (I've also used a CH Flight Yoke, it is near the same as the Wingman).
Quantitatively I can turn consistent laps around 239 mph at Michigan (IndyCar
of course, not NASCAR) even with the Ilmor engine - but only when I use one
of the wheels.  I can do low 239s with the Wingman but NOT with the others;
the Addision yoke is really pretty bad - I couldn't manage to beat 238.2
with it in a fair amount of trying, while I pulled off a 240.413 with my T1.
The disadvantage of the T1 is that it is pretty hard to shift frequently,
as is required on road courses, and of course the well-known issues with
pedal springs.  If you are primarily or exclusively a NASCAR driver, I
think the T1 is for you.

The ACP is also a VERY good wheel - I did 240.00x with it almost right out
of the box.  It has the *MAJOR* advantage (to me) that it has semi-auto
gearshift buttons right on the wheel - you can shift up or down without
losing control, even shifting a lot for the (very) tight gearing I use
at Laguna Seca.  *HOWEVER* less-than-fanatical racers will discover that
the LEFT-FOOT BRAKING is quite foreign, and that alone loses me ~3 seconds
at Laguna Seca so far.  It is also not what real ICR or NASCAR drivers
are doing - F1 bigots (especially McLaren fans) will feel right at home though.

My personal preference would be a T1 with gearshifts on the wheel or
column, but that doesn't really exist right now as far as I know.  (I have
sort of *made* it by using the right-foot-braking T1 pedal unit with the
ACP wheel unit, but that's a $250 solution...)  I drive mostly IndyCar.

I had maintainance issues with both the T1 and the ACP - I broke the T1
springs like everyone else, and my ACP arrived with shipping damage.  Both
companies were VERY good about dealing with the problems.

If you drop the $115 for the T1 or the $150 (gasp) for the ACP (these
are the discount mailorder prices from Chips & Bits), do yourself a favor
and get a *quality* game card.  I have discovered from experience and
a bit of testing that most of the sound boards with integrated game ports
are subject to a pretty fair amount of thermal drift.  (I can cheat to
some degree, since I work for a computer vendor where I can find experts
on such things.)  I have a Cardinal Jazz SB-16 compatible in a Gateway 2000
and find that it drifts horribly; it is aggravated by the fact that it
is delivered from Gateway mounted 3/8" above my 486 cpu, but even moving
it in the box didn't stop the problem.   I tried the SoundBlaster AWE-32
that I have in my P90 at work, and discovered that it too is thermally
sensitive, albeit somewhat less so.  After major frustration with my
Jazz card, I broke down and got a Thrustmaster ACM game card, and have
discovered that it is nearly 100% insensitive to thermal drift - which
is precisely what Thrustmaster claims.  I paid $29.95 for my ACM card,
which is steep for a game card but cheap compared to the wheels.

Any questions, please ask.

--

Brian Wong                              Product Marketing Engineering

DAVID BARKL

Steering wheels

by DAVID BARKL » Sun, 12 Feb 1995 05:17:04


: I was convinced to shell out the extra cash for an ACP after returning the T1
: after only one day of use, and there's NO way I'd go back to joystick racing
: now.. it is a TERRIFIC wheel.  If you want information on the ACP, call Mike
: Shiflett at 1-800-647-7623 ext. 13.

I gave them a call and the current price is $180.  I choked over the cost of
the T1, and this really stunned me.  I asked for the spec sheet on it so maybe
I'll be blown away with what I see and shell out the extra $$.  One thing
stuck me as odd, though.  The rep. told me it's not a "bolt to a table unit"
like the T1.  I'm wondering what he means by this.

P.S. Still eagerly awaiting the car update from Johns! :)
--
*****************************************************************************
* Dave Barkley                             So this is how a Sig file works! *
*          I guess I'm suppose to put something witty here....              *
*****************************************************************************

Brian Wong - SMCC Product Marketing Engineeri

Steering wheels

by Brian Wong - SMCC Product Marketing Engineeri » Sun, 12 Feb 1995 16:05:10



>: I was convinced to shell out the extra cash for an ACP after returning the T1
>: after only one day of use, and there's NO way I'd go back to joystick racing
>: now.. it is a TERRIFIC wheel.  If you want information on the ACP, call Mike
>: Shiflett at 1-800-647-7623 ext. 13.

>I gave them a call and the current price is $180.  I choked over the cost of
>the T1, and this really stunned me.  I asked for the spec sheet on it so maybe
>I'll be blown away with what I see and shell out the extra $$.  One thing
>stuck me as odd, though.  The rep. told me it's not a "bolt to a table unit"
>like the T1.  I'm wondering what he means by this.

The T1 is a two-piece unit: there's a pedal unit that sits on the floor,
and a dash/wheel unit which you drape over the edge of your table.  Since
it's not really heavy, you need to do something to keep it nailed down.
TM includes suction cups and velcro pads, but IMHO neither of them are
anything to write home about.  

The ACP is a free-standing unit.  I have found that it is not quite as stable
as the T1, precisely because it is free-standing and not bolted to table
which is heavy to begin with and weighed down by a heavy monitor to boot.
So far I have not been able to keep the ACP itself under control.  Part
of that is because my IndyCar is (ahem, PC)... is located in a room with
hardwood floors rather than carpets.  The ACP didn't come with little
*** feet, and I think I'm going to ahve to go add some.

Do yourself a favor and don't pay retail for either of them: Chips & Bits
sells them for $111 and $158 respectively.  (1-800-753-GAME).  Even after
shipping you'll save a healthy chunk of change.

--

Brian Wong                              Product Marketing Engineering

T. Anthony Joh

Steering wheels

by T. Anthony Joh » Sun, 12 Feb 1995 18:00:40


>P.S. Still eagerly awaiting the car update from Johns! :)

I'll have it up this morning.  Same file, new cars.

---



IWCC:   http://www.webcom.com/~zyllyx/welcome.html        MM#6/JA#07/RM#1/DW#17

Bob Malle

Steering wheels

by Bob Malle » Thu, 16 Feb 1995 03:07:18


[Snip]

Does anyone know where in the UK I can get one of these?  I have a
free wheel (Logic 3).  This is ok for F1GP but not ICR street,  and
no way for ICR/NCR ovals.  Does the T1 work well for ovals?

Bob

--
Bob Mallett - Maidstone, England

Brian Wong - SMCC Product Marketing Engineeri

Steering wheels

by Brian Wong - SMCC Product Marketing Engineeri » Fri, 17 Feb 1995 08:18:08





>[Snip]

>>The ACP is a free-standing unit.  I have found that it is not quite as stable
>>as the T1, precisely because it is free-standing and not bolted to table
>>which is heavy to begin with and weighed down by a heavy monitor to boot.
>>So far I have not been able to keep the ACP itself under control.  Part
>>of that is because my IndyCar is (ahem, PC)... is located in a room with
>>hardwood floors rather than carpets.  The ACP didn't come with little
>>*** feet, and I think I'm going to ahve to go add some.

>>Do yourself a favor and don't pay retail for either of them: Chips & Bits
>>sells them for $111 and $158 respectively.  (1-800-753-GAME).  Even after
>>shipping you'll save a healthy chunk of change.

>Does anyone know where in the UK I can get one of these?  I have a
>free wheel (Logic 3).  This is ok for F1GP but not ICR street,  and
>no way for ICR/NCR ovals.  Does the T1 work well for ovals?

The T1 works *GREAT* on ovals.  I think it's better than the ACP on ovals.

--

Brian Wong                              Product Marketing Engineering


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