rec.autos.simulators

O.k., it's time I admit it: I am slow. It's not that I couldn't drive
the car around the track. I just can't drive it around quickly. My
best lap is 1:12.6, but I usually hover around 1:14. I can do that for
several laps in a row without any problem, but that's not the point of
driving a racecar, is it? As soon as I risk more, off I go.

Maybe some of you constantly-sub-1:10-hotshots could give me some
hints? (And if there are some poor souls as slow as I am, you might
speak up for support. :)

Here's what I do and what I think I should be doing. Please feel free
to comment on either column. [BTW, this is in the Repco-Brabham GP
without any helps. 640x480, iP188, 48MB, Monster 1, T2 wheel.]

        What I think should be done     What really happens

S/F
line,
T1      3rd, almost full throttle       I have to lift a lot
        4-wheel drift;                  or I spin.

T2      up into 4th at the apex,        usually still in 3rd,
        gently drifting towards the     or trying to steady
        hay bales on the right, but     the car. Or I just
        just missing them               *don't* miss the hay...

T3      4-wheel drifting into the       creeping up the hill,
        straight, up into 5th shortly   barely reaching 5th
        after the guard rail ends       before it's time to brake
                                        again.

T4      ease off the throttle gently    lifting and braking works,
        before the billboard, start     but I either run out of road
        braking w/o locking the wheels  or am very slow in the corner.
        at the sign. Shift down into    While accelerating out of the
        3rd, drifting through the turn  corner, I often spin. I'm
        and accelerating out onto the   too slow on the straight,
        straight.                       consequentially.

T5      Full throttle in 5th            no problem here, unless I
                                        came out of T4 unusually
                                        quickly. Then, I have to lift
                                        a bit, soemtimes.

T6      off the gas on the short        usually leave the road to the
        straight, braking and down into outside or drive wretchedly
        3rd, manoeuvering the car at    slowly. or spin.
        more or less constant speed to
        T7

T7-8    off the throttle after the      works surprisingly well... :)
        apex, down into 1st, on the
        throttle again to transfer
        weight to the rear wheels,
        accelerating onto the start/
        finish straight.

I'm looking forward to your analysis.

--
Wolfgang Preiss       \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

Uni des Saarlands       \ and U.S. law. You have been warned.

Check out: http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock and look for the Driving tipses in
the archives.
As for a quick solution... I would suggest you start using *2nd* gear in
turn *8*!!1
Why...?  first of all 1st gear is to low and as you go back on the throttle
out of the turn - the rear tires loose their grip. The in turn make you lift
the throttle and thus reducing you acceleration rate, whilch inturn lead to
slower speed going into turn 1... In other words, use 1st gear in turn 8 and
you'll ruin the next lap *before* its even begun!!!

Hope this helps,
--
Best,
Edwin Solheim
ed_ on NROS

The Paddock - a legendary site..: http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock
Cheek Junior Team: http://home.sol.no/~solhmrek

I haven't touched the program for awhile, but I know seeing a fast
lap helps a lot.

Check out http://gpl.gamestats.com for some replays.
Choose the FAST LAPS option.

Jason.

My fast time is 1:07.76, which I've hit twice.  It was at
one point the fastest reported lap (about three days after
the demo was released).  Now it's kind of slow :)

I think you must lift a lot entering turn 1, but I'm in 4th
gear at that point, and hit 5th about halfway through
turn 3.

T4 does feel really slow.  The most important thing to do in this
turn is to get a good, fast exit.  If you are spinning on the exit,
wait a bit longer to get on the gas, or maybe try to "late-apex" the
turn a little more.  I often have to do a lot of counter-steering
at the exit to keep it straight

You should never have to lift at all in this turn.

The entrance to T6 and T4 both require more steering to be done with
the throttle than with the steering wheel.  I slow down a lot entering
the turn, but once the car is pointed at the apex, I'm on the gas all
the way to the exit of T7.

I use 2nd gear in T8.

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports

I drive T1 in third, neutral or part throttle. The aim is to not scrub
off too much speed by dragging the rear or spinning the wheels, but
keep the front pointed such that you get a good line into T2 from the
right hand side of the track.

The right exit from T1 will set you up in 2, as it's not that
difficult a turn. Use the groove and the camber and stay tight into
the apex before drifting across for 3. I use third/fourth here.

No four wheel drift, as the wheelspin will scrub off vital speed for
most people.

Totally over to the left, slam on the brakes at or slightly past the
billboard. Ease off the brakes as they lock, back of further as you
crest the hill then get back on them again hard while aiming for the
inside kerb with the RF. A flick of opposite lock if the rear is
coming round. Stay tight in to the kerb if racing, or drift slightly
wide to get a sharper, and earlier, exit from the turn.

Always flat in fifth, regardless of the exit from T4. Turn in early
and use the camber to keep you in to the left hand kerb.

Slam on the brakes at the second set of dark tyre marks, drop down to
third then second on turning in. Hug the apex then punch the car out
of the turn and it will understeer across to the apex of the left
hander. Accelerate all the way around here, usually apply some
opposite lock to catch the rear which breaks loose.

Jump on the brakes a second or so into the short downhill straight,
and downshift to second. Take first on the way into the apex, then
accelerate out using the full width of the road. I generally lock up
and spin if I downshift to first under braking for this turn, which
may be to do with too much locking effect from the diff with the setup
or perhaps (more likely) the timing of my downshifts :-)

Probably watching someone is best - try looking at some demos from
in-car view to get the braking points and lines. It doesn't show
throttle or gas positions, but you should get a good idea.

Cheers!
John

T2 is taken in fourth gear and once again I lift for a split second just
before the apex, then power out of the corner just missing the hay bales
on the right.

I usually change up to 5th just as I hit the apex, before the end of the
arnco on the left, then power down to the first braking area. NB:- the
key to these first three corners are to keep the revs as high as
possible, to carry as much speed as possible through the corners, and to
be as smooth as possible. Sounds easy I know, but.....

I only break down to 4th gear as once again it is a lot smoother through
the long right hander than 3rd gear would be, and you can carry more
speed into and through the corner, thus giving you greater exit speed?
I brake just as I *pass* the sign on the left, not before it! Try to
brake as smoothly as possible, I power out of this corner and change up
to 5th just as the arnco barrier ends on the left. I do tend to lock the
wheels on entry to this corner, but I personally do not think that
affects the time too much? (I've seen a couple of the sub 1:07 guys
locking wheels consistently and it doesn't seem to affect them too much
either!)    8-) You can also lose time by trying too hard to not lock
the wheels? just concentrate on getting down to the right entry speed
for the corner, and if you lock you wheels.....so what?

You *never* lift at this corner, it doesn't matter how fast you are
going, it can *always* be taken flat out, easily! Just try and
anticipate the corner and turn in smoothly.

Once again only change down to 4th gear *not* 3rd! 3rd gear is much too
twitchy, the slightest mistake and you are off, 4th gear is much more
stable and therefore forgiving, mainly due to the slightly lower revs at
4th than you would have in 3rd? I brake just *before* the end of the
arnco on the right, and try to be as smooth as possible under braking,
and carry as much speed as possible into and through the corner,
powering out the other side, still in 4th gear.

T7 I take still in fourth gear, I brake immediately after the apex, and
brake down to second gear *not* first gear! first gear should only ever
be used in any race car at the start of a race, after that it should not
be used at all, as it is far too easy to spin the wheels and fly off the
track. once again try to be smooth and carry speed hru the corner,
powering out of the final T8 and up through the gears, usually in 4th by
the time I pass the line, ready to lift and take the first corner.

I really feel the *key* to fast times in GPL (as in every other sim?) is
*smoothness*. You appear to underestimate how fast the car can be taken
into and through the corners? Try to go just that little bit faster and
you will be surprised how the car does manage to stay on the right line,
it just takes commitment to stamp on the peddle, point it in the right
direction, and hope it sticks to the track! If you have done it right,
it will!!!!

You should also note, that the corners are crucial. time is won or lost
at the curly bits of the track, not the straight bits!

If you can master good cornering technique you are half way there?
Try to brake a bit later (smoothly) and turn the car in a bit too much,
then dab the throttle and the car will swing around as the weight
transfers and as you hit the apex the car should now be pointing roughly
in the right direction, and you can plant the throttle on the exit cos
a) you are carrying a bit more speed cos you braked later and,
b) you used the *pendulum* effect on entry to the corner to finish off
pointing the right way.

It also helps to watch just how the fst guys do it? download a few fast
laps, and watch, and watch, and learn, and watch again, and even take
notes if you have to, but you can learn a lot from these replays.

One last tip if you want really fast times.....Use the Lotus, it's
easily the quickest car of the three (but a bit harder to master?)

8-)

Hope the info helps.....

BTW: My best at GPL is *only* 1:09:95 so I am by no means one of the
fastest guys out here?

*Peter*    8-)

Thanks for all the suggestions. I planned to return with a
significantly improved lap time, but it seems I need more practice on
the new line...

--
Wolfgang Preiss       \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

Uni des Saarlands       \ and U.S. law. You have been warned.

Supplemental:

1:10.08! Not a bad improvement from 1:12.60, is it? Needless to say I
spent several hours trying to break the 1:10 treshold, but it's enough
for today... :)

The credit for this improvement goes to:

- you guys. Thanks for the suggestions!

- approx. 250 laps of training (today, that is)

- Colin Chapman. The Lotus is much faster than the Brabham. And easier
to drive quickly, actually. You just have to keep an eye on the rev
counter: as long as the instrument is below "9 o'clock", everything is
soft and easy. But above...

--
Wolfgang Preiss       \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

Uni des Saarlands       \ and U.S. law. You have been warned.

I am not sure whether I am impressed with the content of this thread or
the quality of the physics engine of GPL.  Actually it's both, but which
came first?  The chicken or the egg?  

There have been some great tips in r.a.s. over the years on how to
tackle a track.  But this has to be the first thread that I've followed
that sounds as if we are talking about REAL race cars and REAL tracks.
I'm sure that if this thread were seen outside of the "simulation"
community, the readers would be convinced we were talking about "real
life" situations.

Thanks Papyrus for upping the ante!  And thanks to the r.a.s. guys for
sharing their insights!

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

uh oh , we have to end this thread soon.  I think it might start to get
constructive :-)