rec.autos.simulators

I have run GP2 -- NASCAR 2 - ICR2 - and would like to be able to
continue using these simulations.

HOWEVER -------------------

    I know I need a new video card and am willing to upgrade.

   Does anyone have  THROUGH EXPERIENCE  a good idea what would be a
good one that would allow me to run the above simulations and get good
frame rates with GPL?

  I just downloaded the monza track and it is quite choppy with my S3
VIRGE card --------------- so I know the upgrade is enevitable.

  I just don't want to go out and throw down a bunch of money that
will not do what I want it to.

  IF NEED BE ------------- I suppose I will have to put GP2 back in
its jewelcase because I hear it will not run with these new video
cards.

  Your assistance would be VERY MUCH appreciated.

   There are two basic 3D accelerators of interest to you.  3Dfx is
the market leader, most games use it directly or can use it via MS
Direct3D.  These are the original Voodoo (almost 2 years old, slower,
cheaper) or Voodoo2 (newer, faster, pricier) chipsets/cards you hear
about.  These are 3D-only cards which are used in addition to your
current video card.  They are only in use when using 3D applications,
old programs will still use your current card.  (Also, don't be fooled
by "Voodoo Rush" cards, they are inferior.)

   The other accelerator is Rendition.  Also available in two
generations, the V1000 (Creative Labs 3D Blaster PCI [not VLB!],
Intergraph Intense 3D, Canopus, and others), the V2100 (Diamond
Stealth S220?) and the V2200 (Hercules Thriller 3D).  The V1000 cards
are two years old, dirt cheap, and pretty decent performance [far
better than your current card]).  The 2x00 are the newer generation,
with better performance and higher costs.  The highest performance
choice is the Hercules Thriller 3D with 8meg (preferred over 4meg) for
about $150.  These cards can run special Rendition-versions of games
or Direct3D.  In general, Rendition is not that well software
supported, but it is of particular interest to Sierra/Papyrus sim fans
(see below).  These are all 2D/3D cards which would totally replace
your current card (I don't know of any conflicts with current VGA
software).  Also, a third-generation of Rendition cards are supposed
to be available around Christmas, no details available (probably true
of Voodoo, too, not sure).

   Of the games you mentioned:

* MicroProse GP2 - no 3D acceleration.  Period.  Doesn't matter.  The
2D portion of a Rendition card would probably be better than your
current card (speed-wise), but GP2 is such a CPU hog, you may not
notice.

* NASCAR2 - the slightly better choice is Rendition (works out of the
box and its optimized for it), although a patch is available for 3Dfx
Voodoo.  The new re-release of NASCAR (available in a few months
w/CTS, etc.) should have both 3Dfx and Rendition available out of the
box.

* ICR2 - Rendition only.  Moreover, folks have reported conflicts
between this game and the Stealth V2100 cards.  There are workarounds,
but I'm not sure if it completely solves the problem.  I haven't heard
of problems with the Thriller V2200 card.

* GPL has both 3Dfx Voodoo and Rendition support.

   So, it depends on your usage.  If you play other games, 3Dfx may be
better for you.  If your focus is the Papyrus sims (which is what you
say), I'd strongly consider Rendition (which would also upgrade your
2D apps, not just 3D games).  If money is tight, a Voodoo1 or Stealth
V2100 goes for $75 or less.  I have an Intergraph V1000 card, and my
choice would be a Thriller 3D after I get my CPU upgrade done
(this V1000 card has allowed my P133 to satisfy my race sim needs for
almost two years, so I can't complain).  Either way you go, you will
be *miles* ahead of your current card (particularly with GPL).  Good
luck!

NAR Northeast Regional Contest Board site - points and more...

--
Bill Mette      | "A person is smart.  People are dumb."
MCSNet, Chicago |                        - K MiB

  I too have the Virge 3D card in a P166mmx with 32 meg ram
and I agree GPL is hopeless with that setup BUT, two weeks ago
I installed a Canopus Pure 3D II 12 meg 3DFX Voodoo 2, LX
Version (wow I reckon that pretty much describes it)   and I
am impressed with the frame rates in the demo. (both tracks).
As for full version, well who knows.?

I have everything turned on and still I am very happy with the
performance. I don't know what actual frame rates I getting
exactly but it seems smooth to me.
Bare in mind you have a faster CPU and more ram, which I'm
sure will help even more. Also bare in mind that the Voodoo 2
will not run to it's max ability in a classic Pentium, only in
a Pentium 2 will it show it's true colors.  Correct if I'm
wrong but in the Pentium the Voodoo 2 is only running at 66
mhz (limit of Pentium bus speed) but in the PII it will run at
100 mhz.
   Also with the 3DFx Voodoo 2 you can have two Voodoo 2's  in
at the same time and run in SLI mode. (Though I have no
experience of that)

I personally suggest the Voodoo 2 rather than the Voodoo 1  
based purely on future proofing. Should you choose to go for a
PII at some stage the Voodoo 2 goes into rocket mode.

Of course there is the Rendition cards but I have no
experience of them so maybe someone else can offer some info
on them.

PS: I just tried GP2 and it ran without a hitch, but don't
expect the frame rate to increase with a 3DFX card.  SVGA mode
is still hopeless since the game is not 3D accellerated.

Nigel Nichols

Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports
(Memeber of the Nascar Offline Racing Series)
Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy
Hamilton
New Zealand

if you cannot afford to upgrade your cpu and prefer optimum performance in papy
sims then definitley get the 8meg thriller. beyond that you will need to do
what I just did. abit bx6 motherboard and a celeron 300A overclocked to 450mhz
with 128meg pc100 ram. i upgraded from a 200mmx with 64ram. for more good info
go to Alison Hines great site, dig around read the great race reports and the
hardware page. she knows http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison/
good luck, John M

I guess you mixed up bus speed and the V2 CPUs' clock. The texture
processors on V2 cards usually run at 90 MHz, with cooling you can
overclock them to ~100 MHz. This has nothing to do with the external
clock of the CPU. V2s always run at the same speed, the point is that
slower CPUs can't deliver data quick enough so the V2 will run in idle
mode most of the time.
BTW: the PCI bus speed is always 33 MHz.

Yes, only when he's absolutely sure he won't upgrade CPU in the next
few years, I'd suggest buying a V1.

bye,
Daniel
--
    Daniel Lichtenberger, Vienna/Austria