rec.autos.simulators

by **G MOR** » Fri, 28 Oct 1994 19:48:33

> I have some bad news regarding F1GP 2 on the Amiga. I went to the FES
> yestererday (Wednesday) and MicroProse were there. I asked about F1GP 2 and
> the guy said they have no plans to release the Amiga version. The main
> reasons being that the PC version will involve extensive texture mapping, and
> that the Amiga is "not capable".
> The PC version release date has been postponed until July/August 1995, and
> they guy even suggested that: "you can save up for a PC by then" - I was not
> impressed!

Screw MicroProse - F1GP on the Amiga was a BIG seller for them. AFAIK the
game was developed and programmed on the Amiga. It seems quite common for
software houses to refuse to release games that would require 'too much
power' for the Amiga. Maybe if only people would upgrade their RAM and CPU
then we might see more games, but the ECS crowd are holding everything up.

gavan
--

by **Michael Robert Brome** » Sun, 30 Oct 1994 13:41:02

Hmm. Well obviously people haven't followed up on WHY the F1GP runs slower
on the amiga. It was CODED that way. The problem is that it doesn't run faster
on an A3000/A4000 than it does on the A1200 because it just wasn't coded to
take advantage of the processor. Please, this discussion is pointless.

-- Mike Bromery.

by **G MOR** » Sat, 29 Oct 1994 18:08:07

> Remember that the PC version is doing texture mapping for the track
> and on my DX2-66 VLB I get 25 fps (the maximum possible setting). I
> got less than 10 fps on the 3000. So unless you have an Amiga with
> a 50MHZ 68040 or better and something better than ECS then you won't
> see any kind of frame rate if they bump up the detail from F1GP PC
> version.

I get at least your A3000 speed on my A1200. If you only get that
speed then you have something wrong with your A3000.

About as many as could do the same on a 20mHz 386. Ever heard of
accelerator cards?

OF COURSE IT RUNS FAST ON A 486

OF COURSE IT IS FASTER THAN ON AN A1200

THATS BECAUSE THE 486/66 IS A MUCH MORE POWERFUL PROCESSOR
THAN THE 020 IN THE A1200

You can however get more powerful processors for the A1200.
The game CAN be done on an Amiga - it just needs and Amiga with
a powerful processor.

gavan
--

by **Greg Bowe** » Sat, 29 Oct 1994 13:04:46

>> I have some bad news regarding F1GP 2 on the Amiga. I went to the FES
>> yestererday (Wednesday) and MicroProse were there. I asked about F1GP 2 and
>> the guy said they have no plans to release the Amiga version. The main
>> reasons being that the PC version will involve extensive texture mapping, and
>> that the Amiga is "not capable".
>> The PC version release date has been postponed until July/August 1995, and
>> they guy even suggested that: "you can save up for a PC by then" - I was not
>> impressed!
> ***MicroProse - F1GP on the Amiga was a BIG seller for them. AFAIK the
>game was developed and programmed on the Amiga. It seems quite common for
>software houses to refuse to release games that would require 'too much
>power' for the Amiga. Maybe if only people would upgrade their RAM and CPU
>then we might see more games, but the ECS crowd are holding everything up.

1) F1GP is two to three times better on my 486 than it was on my 3000.
Remember that the PC version is doing texture mapping for the track
and on my DX2-66 VLB I get 25 fps (the maximum possible setting). I
got less than 10 fps on the 3000. So unless you have an Amiga with
a 50MHZ 68040 or better and something better than ECS then you won't
see any kind of frame rate if they bump up the detail from F1GP PC
version.

2) There aren't too many Amigas out there anyway. You want them to do
a game that requires at least an A4000 or better. Forget doing
texture mapping on your A600 or A1200. They're way too slow for
anything CPU-intensive. So I fail to see how they can upgrade F1GP
when the installed base of machines is still relatively small,
development costs will be higher for a more sophisticated game and
heck, it'll suck except on the most powerful machines available.

Do you seriously think they would not do this if they thought they
could make money? Ignoring a market generally means that they don't
think the potential profit is worth the risk.

Finally, how many Amiga games use detailed texture mapping and run
on an A1200 at 15-30 fps?

--
Portland TrailBlazers Pacific Division Champs: 1978, 1991, 1992 |
NBA Champs: 1977 Western Conference Champs: 1977, 1990, 1992 |
Manchester United FA Premiership Champions: 1993, 1994 |

by **C.J Coulso** » Wed, 02 Nov 1994 02:43:38

|> I have some bad news regarding F1GP 2 on the Amiga. I went to the FES
|> yestererday (Wednesday) and MicroProse were there. I asked about F1GP 2 and
|> the guy said they have no plans to release the Amiga version. The main
|> reasons being that the PC version will involve extensive texture mapping, and
|> that the Amiga is "not capable".
|>

Would it be too hard to write an Amiga version without texture mapping?
After all, do we REALLY need it??? F1GP 1 is still a really good looking
sim even though it`s all just polygons.

What really bugs me though, is that Microprose originally stated they
would release data disks for F1GP 1 containing new tracks/teams etc. Then
they said they were going to do F1GP 2 instead which would naturally
feature the latest tracks/teams etc. Now they say F1GP 2 won`t be an Amiga
game. I really hate Microprose now.

|> The PC version release date has been postponed until July/August 1995, and
|> they guy even suggested that: "you can save up for a PC by then" - I was not
|> impressed!
|>

Hell, if I`d been in your shoes, Mr. Microprose might just be getting
out of intensive care by now (joking, perhaps :-) That is the sort of
attitude from Microprose that really really makes me sick.
Maybe we should just let Microprose disappear from the Amiga scene. Sure,
they *used* to write excellent, system legal code, but now all they seem
interested in is PCs, and the odd port to the Amiga complete with zero
optimisation and little testing.

If only whoever owns the track data format would release it into the
public domain, we`d have no need of Microprose.

Hmmmmm, I`m all out of rant fuel now, and I feel so much better.

Chris

A4000/030/882 - 6/540 - It`s not a PC, it`s not a Mac, it`s great!

by **Adam Buckl** » Wed, 02 Nov 1994 19:53:59

: Hell, if I`d been in your shoes, Mr. Microprose might just be getting
: out of intensive care by now (joking, perhaps :-) That is the sort of
: attitude from Microprose that really really makes me sick.
: Maybe we should just let Microprose disappear from the Amiga scene. Sure,
: they *used* to write excellent, system legal code, but now all they seem
: interested in is PCs, and the odd port to the Amiga complete with zero
: optimisation and little testing.

: If only whoever owns the track data format would release it into the
: public domain, we`d have no need of Microprose.

They did the same thing with Micropose Golf. This is the best golf sim, nice
undulating fairways (not flat landscapes like PGA) and more playable than
Links. It came with six courses and an 'Install New Course' program but
no new courses were released. They probably never intended to release any, it
was just a feature to print on the box.

I would love to design & release new courses for this sim. Can anyone tell
me the data structure for the courses ? Micropose even ?

Adam

by **Peter Burk** » Thu, 03 Nov 1994 02:57:06

>Hell, if I`d been in your shoes, Mr. Microprose might just be getting
>out of intensive care by now (joking, perhaps :-) That is the sort of
>attitude from Microprose that really really makes me sick.
>Maybe we should just let Microprose disappear from the Amiga scene. Sure,
>they *used* to write excelle

...

Microprose is a company interested in profits! If I was to pay a bunch
of programmers to write a new simulator, I'd also choose the platform
for the most likely return of my investment. Only if there was no
additional extra cost would I support the non-mainstream platforms.
It's that simple.

And about disappearing from the AMiga scene: expect EVERY company to
disappear from that "market".

by **Stew Ponsfor** » Tue, 08 Nov 1994 20:22:33

> > OF COURSE IT RUNS FAST ON A 486

> > OF COURSE IT IS FASTER THAN ON AN A1200
> > THATS BECAUSE THE 486/66 IS A MUCH MORE POWERFUL PROCESSOR
> > THAN THE 020 IN THE A1200

> > You can however get more powerful processors for the A1200.
> > The game CAN be done on an Amiga - it just needs and Amiga with
> > a powerful processor.
> Yeah, and how many people have got such Amigas??? It's not worth
> Microprose's while to go through all the effort of programming a
> version when they're only likely to sell a handfull of copies.

If you remember when the original came out (for the standard A500), it
was very slow and jerky, but that didnt stop
it becoming one of the most popular amiga
games ever!

Stew.
================================

|University of Portsmouth |
================================

by **C.J Coulso** » Sun, 06 Nov 1994 04:28:02

|> >Hell, if I`d been in your shoes, Mr. Microprose might just be getting
|> >out of intensive care by now (joking, perhaps :-) That is the sort of
|> >attitude from Microprose that really really makes me sick.
|> >Maybe we should just let Microprose disappear from the Amiga scene. Sure,
|> >they *used* to write excelle
|> ...
|>
|> Microprose is a company interested in profits! If I was to pay a bunch
|> of programmers to write a new simulator, I'd also choose the platform
|> for the most likely return of my investment. Only if there was no
|> additional extra cost would I support the non-mainstream platforms.
|> It's that simple.

In that case, why did Microprose ever support the Amiga? They could
easily have kept their output PC only and still made a fortune from
sales in the US (until Europe caught the PC bug a few years ago).

Creating programs for more than one platform will always cost more
than creating programs for just one platform, so why do quite a
few software companies support multi-platform development?

Think, there are still a LOT of Amigas used for game playing, and
if a game is released that is well written, it will be purchased by
sufficient people to make it financially viable (especially if said
game happened to be F1GP2 - look at all the net traffic this topic
has created, and think how many Amiga owners don`t have net access...)

And they seem quite happy to rerelease old Amiga games in order to
make money out of Amiga owners that way..... Rereleasing the PC
versions only would cost less than rereleasing both versions, but
Microprose obviously think they will make a decent profit on the
Amiga rereleases, even though a lot of people interested in such
sims already have them from the original releases.

|>
|> And about disappearing from the AMiga scene: expect EVERY company to
|> disappear from that "market".

Without some time scale reference, this comment could also apply to
the PC market, the Megadrive market, the 3D0 market...............

I personally believe Microprose *could* do an Amiga version of F1GP2,
with or without texture mapping, and make sufficient profit to make
it worthwhile. I think their arguing that the Amiga is not able
to do texture mapping is just an excuse, we don`t need the texture
mapping for the sim to be brilliant - just make the graphics look
as nice as F1GP1 and give us a bit more speed, new tracks and a bit
more simulation of things like engine failures and fuel loads etc.

Look at TornadoAGA or the fast approaching SimCity2000 and TFX for
examples of software converted to the Amiga, presumably at some
non-insignificant cost to the companies involved. Surely these
companies are just as interested in profits as Microprose. Can you
explain why they should continue with Amiga software given your
argument for Microprose above???

Nothing in life is ever simple.

Chris

A4000/030/882 - 6/530

by **Anand the Wi** » Wed, 09 Nov 1994 00:42:20

: Hell, if I`d been in your shoes, Mr. Microprose might just be getting
: out of intensive care by now (joking, perhaps :-) That is the sort of
: attitude from Microprose that really really makes me sick.
: Maybe we should just let Microprose disappear from the Amiga scene. Sure,
: they *used* to write excellent, system legal code, but now all they seem
: interested in is PCs, and the odd port to the Amiga complete with zero
: optimisation and little testing.

Well, Speed is the way to go buddy. Its commonplace any more that today's
softwares are not going to be written with older machines in mind. I think
the only way around this is "upgrade" or "switch to an intel based machine"
Even that does not signify anything. I had a 286 back in 1990. Over the last
four years I have traded it in for a 386 and that for a 486. Now I am trying
to move on to a Pentium. As far as I can see, if u don't keep up with
technology you will be left behind without any sympathy.

Anand.