rec.autos.simulators

Well I'm going to make one last post in "your" newsgroup.

My name is Brian Pokorny and I own a company called Flag 2 Flag Media
Group.  I have helped real race drivers get big of dollars in real money
for their race teams.   Now our company has ventured into the virtual
world.  We actually have potential sponsors that want to sponsor SIM
DRIVERS and SIM LEAGUES.  As of today it looks like one or two drivers
in the NNOL will get sponsors for 1998.  These sponsorships include
$$$$$ and product.  BUT!!!!!!!!!!!  Our whole internet "***"
Sponsoring might have to be put on hold for awhile because.........

We were accused of SPAMMING in your newsgroups.......
We were NOT warned..........We were just sentenced........
Now it looks like my Company is going to lose its ISP. (The only one in
my local calling area) So it looks like we are going back to do what we
do best...Get cash for real world drivers and teams.  This company of
mine (Flag 2 Flag Media Group) is no game like some people think it

we will let you know.....We really want to help SIM
drivers........................................

Sincerely

Brian Pokorny
Flag 2 Flag Media Group

Well I'm going to make one last post in "your" newsgroup.

My name is Brian Pokorny and I own a company called Flag 2 Flag Media
Group.  I have helped real race drivers get big dollars in real money
for their race teams.   Now our company has ventured into the virtual
world.  We actually have potential sponsors that want to sponsor SIM
DRIVERS and SIM LEAGUES.  As of today it looks like one or two drivers
in the NNOL will get sponsors for 1998.  These sponsorships include
$$$$$ and product.  BUT!!!!!!!!!!!  Our whole internet "***"
Sponsoring might have to be put on hold for awhile because.........

We were accused of SPAMMING in your newsgroups.......
We were NOT warned..........We were just sentenced........
Now it looks like my Company is going to lose its ISP. (The only one in
my local calling area) So it looks like we are going back to do what we
do best...Get cash for real world drivers and teams.  This company of
mine (Flag 2 Flag Media Group) is no game like some people think it

we will let you know.....We really want to help SIM
drivers........................................

Sincerely

Brian Pokorny
Flag 2 Flag Media Group

Well I'm going to make one last post in "your" newsgroup.

My name is Brian Pokorny and I own a company called Flag 2 Flag Media
Group.  I have helped real race drivers get big dollars in real money
for their race teams.   Now our company has ventured into the virtual
world.  We are building web sites for race teams and tracks....So we
thought we would try to sell to the SIM drivers (Because me and my
partner  like to relax playing my SIM N2)We actually have potential
sponsors that want to sponsor SIM DRIVERS and SIM LEAGUES.  As of today
it looks like one or two drivers in the NNOL will get sponsors for
1998.  These sponsorships include $$$$$ and product.  BUT!!!!!!!!!!!
Our whole internet "***" Sponsoring might have to be put on hold for
awhile because.........

We were accused of SPAMMING in your newsgroups.......
We were NOT warned..........We were just sentenced........
Now it looks like my Company is going to lose its ISP. (The only one in
my local calling area) So it looks like we are going back to do what we
do best...Get cash for real world drivers and teams.  This company of
mine (Flag 2 Flag Media Group) is no game like some people think it

we will let you know.....We really want to help SIM
drivers........................................

Sincerely

Brian Pokorny
Flag 2 Flag Media Group

To Brian,
        Sir, I am sorry that you have been accused of spamming, what you did
was acceptable and of great relevance to rec.autos.simulators.  While I
am not personally in the market for your service, I would hate to see
others deprived of it.  I personally hate spam and I can see that others
have seen that you were offering a service on the internet and therefore
to them that is spam, but I think that they were wrong in accusing you
of spamming.

I beleive, by your address, that you are with bigfoot.com, or whatever
ISP uses that address.  I have written to them and asked them not to
remove you as a member and I hope that you do not lose your internet
connection.

Reguards,

Quentin Christensen

Brian, why didn't your repeated, large posts say any of the above? As far
as I could tell it was a totally irrelevent message about hosting web
sites. Of interest to a small number of the ng readers maybe but NOT
within the subject matter of the ng. To me it looked like spam and I
deleted the messages after reading the first few lines. There are those
who take spam personally and will complain; every time. They might have
been a bit quick off the mark but they were entitled to do so.

If you had read the ng to find out what was acceptable or not (or
mentioned what you have written above!) then you might have got a rather
different reaction.

One of the first things to do when entering a new arena is to learn the
"rules". In the case of Usenet, those rules are not official but they are
freely available and many think they should be followed - if you had read
the standard Usenet FAQs you would have realised that you got exactly the
reaction that the FAQs warn against.

Sorry, but ignorance is no defence.

Then LEARN about your new marketplace and TARGET it specifically at them
and in terms that they will understand and appreciate.

You may well be able to provide sim racers with a useful service, but it
will have to be very carefully tailored to their needs and if you are
going to market it via Usenet then you will need to be equally careful to
do so in a way that will not annoy people.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Richard

|> Well I'm going to make one last post in "your" newsgroup.

This newsgroup belongs to anyone wishing to participate.  This is the
general idea with the majority of the USENET groups.  However, it
might not be a bad idea to get a feel for a new market area, perhaps
do a little research, and try to establish what it is that the locals
might find offensive, before you jump right into the thick of things.
I think this is what is known as good marketing.  In other words, look
before you leap.

|> My name is Brian Pokorny and I own a company called Flag 2 Flag Media
|> Group.  I have helped real race drivers get big of dollars in real money
|> for their race teams.   Now our company has ventured into the virtual
|> world.  We actually have potential sponsors that want to sponsor SIM
|> DRIVERS and SIM LEAGUES.  As of today it looks like one or two drivers
|> in the NNOL will get sponsors for 1998.  These sponsorships include
|> $$$$$ and product.  BUT!!!!!!!!!!!  Our whole internet "***"
|> Sponsoring might have to be put on hold for awhile because.........
|>
|> We were accused of SPAMMING in your newsgroups.......

That's because you spammed the newsgroup.

|> We were NOT warned..........We were just sentenced........

Exactly how do you expect people to warn you before you spam?  Does
someone need to tell you not to rob liquor stores?

DISCLAIMER:  I am not trying to imply that F2FMG is in the practice
of robbing liquor stores.  Just trying to make a point.

|> Now it looks like my Company is going to lose its ISP. (The only one in
|> my local calling area) So it looks like we are going back to do what we
|> do best...Get cash for real world drivers and teams.  This company of

Doing what you do best sounds like a reasonable approach.  ;-)

|> mine (Flag 2 Flag Media Group) is no game like some people think it

Sniff, sniff.  Now I'm getting all misty-eyed.  But I am still a little
confused.  If this isn't "what you do best", how does it constitute

some responsibility for your actions.

|> we will let you know.....We really want to help SIM
|> drivers........................................
|>
|> Sincerely
|>
|> Brian Pokorny
|> Flag 2 Flag Media Group
|>

Just my .02

Marcus

Why do  you think the business of  F2FMG is in the practice
of robbing liquor stores?

<snip>
% |> My name is Brian Pokorny and I own a company called Flag 2 Flag Media
% |> Group.  I have helped real race drivers get big of dollars in real money
% |> for their race teams.   Now our company has ventured into the virtual
% |> world.  We actually have potential sponsors that want to sponsor SIM
% |> DRIVERS and SIM LEAGUES.  As of today it looks like one or two drivers
% |> in the NNOL will get sponsors for 1998.  These sponsorships include
% |> $$$$$ and product.  BUT!!!!!!!!!!!  Our whole internet "***"
% |> Sponsoring might have to be put on hold for awhile because.........
% |>
% |> We were accused of SPAMMING in your newsgroups.......

% That's because you spammed the newsgroup.

BZZZZZT!  Wrong.  The single post for which Brian is persecuted for was
not SPAM.  I guess we are all just a little too touchy about SPAM & UCE.
Here is the "official" Usenet definition of SPAM:

From Net Abuse FAQ http://www.***nothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html

     The term "spam," as used on this newsgroup, means "the same article
    (or essentially the same article) posted an unacceptably high
     number of times to one or more newsgroups." CONTENT IS IRRELEVANT.
     'Spam' doesn't mean "ads." It doesn't mean "abuse." It doesn't mean
    "posts whose content I object to." Spam is a funky name for a
     phenomenon that can be measured pretty objectively: did that post
     appear X times?

However, due to a possible flakey newsreader, Brian could sorta be
"spamming" now by the fact that this thread has about 3 copies of the
same article.  But, the original post in question was not SPAM.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Michael, I don't know why you are making such a big issue of trying to
defend this guy. Reading that particular "definition" (which only applies
to the net abuse newsgroup btw), it says "unacceptably high number of
times to one or more newsgroups". If I were to consider ONCE to one
newsgroup to be unacceptably high then it is spam in my eyes. Spam is in
the eye of the beholder - just because you didn't consider it spam does
not mean that others would not be equally valid in considering it so.

For information, there were at least 7 posts received by my ISP's news
server, all over 150 lines long, posted between 01:45 and 01:57 GMT on
8/12/97 under two different subject heading - and not one of them
relevant to the purpose of this newsgroup. There may have been more posts
but I used Agent's ignore thread option after the first 7. That's not bad
enough to make me complain to the perpetrator's ISP, but it is bad enough
for me to take a very dim view of the individual concerned. If someone
else considered it to be spam and thought it worth taking action then
that is Brian's fault for jumping into a new arena without thought.

At the end of the day though, "action" can only be taken against Brian by
his own ISP. If that ISP, after investigating the situation, decides to
terminate Brian's account then that ISP presumably thinks that Brian
behaved in a seriously unacceptable manner. I can't see an ISP turning
away business without good reason.

Cheers,
Richard

Brian,

I'm not interested in the conflict between you and certain stuck up
USENET users. However, I am extremely interested in this talk of sim-
racing sponsorship.

My simracing team, using the Grand Prix 2 simulator from Spectrum
Holobyte, is hopefully soon to become semi-professional. We are about to
enter into talks with various sponsors of computer peripheral regarding
sponsorship of our team.

Of course, I, as anyone would be, am a complete novice in this as it is
generally unchartered territory. I wonder if you could get back to me
with some more information.

I hope you are able to keep accessing the Internet through your local
ISP...

Regards,
--
Dave Bowers

I hope things get straightened out for you Brian and you can
continue to visit R.A.S.  Your post was not spam and you seem
to have a lot to offer sim drivers.

While spam is despicable, you definitely didn't deserve the
response you got from some people on this group.  I mean, you
didn't post a binary here, and you aren't responsible for
CART-PR. :)

--
Pat Dotson

% >Well I'm going to make one last post in "your" newsgroup.
% >
% >Brian Pokorny
% >Flag 2 Flag Media Group

% I hope things get straightened out for you Brian and you can
% continue to visit R.A.S.  Your post was not spam and you seem
% to have a lot to offer sim drivers.

% While spam is despicable, you definitely didn't deserve the
% response you got from some people on this group.  I mean, you
% didn't post a binary here, and you aren't responsible for
% CART-PR. :)

I have done some more research and even though the post was not
"officially" spam, his ISP does not permit any post with "commerical
content" that have a reply to a bigfoot.com account.  So it would seem
that Brian may be caught behind the 8-ball (he is at the mercy of his
ISP).

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=