rec.autos.simulators

Hi everyone,
 I enjoy playing IndyCar 1 and F1GP, but I was just wondering if the
engine model these games use is actually true-to-life. In particular,
when approaching a corner, shifting down through the gears
has very little effect on car speed as far as I can tell, although
engine revs increase as expected (blowing the engine if not careful
in IndyCar!). Is this like the real thing? Do hi-po engines let you
buzz them up to 14,000 revs without slowing the car??????

Thanks,
JM

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|John Marshall, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, Melbourne Australia|
|        B.Eng.(Comp.Sys.Eng.) & B.App.Sci.(Comp.Sci.) 2nd Year...          |

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If you are going wide open down a straight, let off, and down shift
without braking, you will pop the engine. You need to use the brakes
and engine at the same time.

Mike

According to a reliable source at Papy, there is no engine braking in their
simulators.  I really would like this.. BUT, it would make icr2 and Nascar
on road courses impossible.

This is because in a real race car, you double clutch and rev match while
downshifting in order to prevent engine braking (thus all braking is controlled
by the pedal to ensure ultimate smoothness).  Without a clutch there would
be no way to sim this, and you'd incur a severe physics penalty for
downshifting.  I guess what I would say is Papy is simulating double clutching
automatically.

A great compromise solution would be to simulate engine braking while in a single
gear, but bypass it during a downshift... but that sounds pretty tricky (at what
point after the downshift to you enable engine braking?).

OR-- HOW ABOUT ENABLING A CLUTCH CONTROL PEDAL!!??
( 2 joysticks = 4 axis, 1 steering, 3 pedals.. it can be done...)

Anyways.. my .02.

        Tim V

F1GP *does* engine brake, but the stopping power is much less than using
the brakes.  Engine braking alone would require you to let up way too
early and so it is not terribly useful if you wish to be competative.

--
Gary Beeton
--

In article <Pine.HPP.3.91.960603133748.13175A-

In F1 the engines are so powerful and the drag so huge that lifting off
the accelerator feels like putting on the brakes in a road car - the
drag alone slows the car a LOT.

Cheers!
John

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Gregory Fung

Vancouver, B.C., Canada

Gregory Fung

Vancouver, B.C., Canada

In reality, Williams Renault can exert 1 G of engine brake force
from there 1996 car, according to D Hill

Chris

=> According to a reliable source at Papy, there is no engine braking in their
=> simulators.  I really would like this.. BUT, it would make icr2 and Nascar
=> on road courses impossible.
=>
=> This is because in a real race car, you double clutch and rev match while
=> downshifting in order to prevent engine braking (thus all braking is
=>  controlled
=> by the pedal to ensure ultimate smoothness).  Without a clutch there would
=> be no way to sim this, and you'd incur a severe physics penalty for
=> downshifting.  I guess what I would say is Papy is simulating double
=>  clutching
=> automatically.
=>
=> A great compromise solution would be to simulate engine braking while in a
=>  single
=> gear, but bypass it during a downshift... but that sounds pretty tricky (at
=>  what
=> point after the downshift to you enable engine braking?).
=>
=> OR-- HOW ABOUT ENABLING A CLUTCH CONTROL PEDAL!!??
=> ( 2 joysticks = 4 axis, 1 steering, 3 pedals.. it can be done...)
=>
=> Anyways.. my .02.
=>
=>         Tim V
=>
=>
=> >
=> > Hi everyone,
=> >  I enjoy playing IndyCar 1 and F1GP, but I was just wondering if the
=> > engine model these games use is actually true-to-life. In particular,
=> > when approaching a corner, shifting down through the gears
=> > has very little effect on car speed as far as I can tell, although
=> > engine revs increase as expected (blowing the engine if not careful
=> > in IndyCar!). Is this like the real thing? Do hi-po engines let you
=> > buzz them up to 14,000 revs without slowing the car??????
=> >
=> > Thanks,
=> > JM
=> >
=> >
=>  /---------------------------------------------------------------------------
=> \
=> > |     Computer (adj) : One who has the ability to compute, or count        
=>  |
=> > |                                                                          
=>  |
=> > |     Digital (adj) : Pertaining to the fingers                            
=>  |
=> > |                                                                          
=>  |
=> > |     Digital Computer (n) : A person who can count on their fingers      
=>  |
=> >
=>  |---------------------------------------------------------------------------
=> |
=> > |John Marshall, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, Melbourne
=>  Australia|
=> > |        B.Eng.(Comp.Sys.Eng.) & B.App.Sci.(Comp.Sci.) 2nd Year...        
=>  |

=>  |
=> >
=>  \---------------------------------------------------------------------------
=> /

I was reading the posts about engine brakes and clutchs etc.
I thought I might shared my thoughts on this as I am about to
fit the clutch pedal to my home built pedals system. It would
work by fitting a micro switch on the pedal that is wired to
the common of the gear shift switch which will be open when my
foot is off the clutch and closed when I press the clutch in.
In effect this means that the gear shift switch won't work
until I hit the clutch pedal and close the circuit.
I guess its a poor mans simulated clutch. I have already tryed
it on a temp basis and it works.
And for Papy... I still say GIVE ME A NUETRAL GEAR SO I CAN HIT
THE GAS,DROP THE CLUTCH AND BURN ***.
--
Nigel of Lakewood Racing
Lakewood Computers
New Zealand

Gregory Fung

Vancouver, B.C., Canada

: In reality, Williams Renault can exert 1 G of engine brake force
: from there 1996 car, according to D Hill

Can you be more specific about your source?  I suspect Damon Hill would have
been talking about deceleration due to drag rather than engine braking.
F1 engines have no flywheel and a high compression ratio, so engine braking
will be considerably more than a road car, but still a lot less of a factor
than the aerodynamic drag, I would think.