rec.autos.simulators

Greetings all,
        I'm an avid Indy 500 sim. driver and was wondering if ICR handled
the downforce/speed/cornering AI the same way Indy 500 does.
        The reason I ask is that I believe that Papyrus got this all
messed up in Indy 500.  When you go through one of the turns at Indy at a
very slow speed (80 to 100 mph) you have virtually no grip.  The manual
claims that this is because the car is not generating as much downforce
at low speeds.  They're right abotu that.  BUT, going through the same
corner at a lower speed also means that you are pulling nowhere near the
same amount of G's and, therefore, should not need anywhere near as much
downforce to get through the corner.
        The reason I ask is because I'm planning on buying ICR when I get
my new system.  But if Papyrus hasn't fixed this ***ly obvious error
in ICR, then I doubt I'll buy it.  It seems like it would make road
courses next to impossible to drive.

Comments?

later,

--
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Bill Mette         | "People are personally responsible for keeping themselves

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: Greetings all,
:       I'm an avid Indy 500 sim. driver and was wondering if ICR handled
: the downforce/speed/cornering AI the same way Indy 500 does.
:       The reason I ask is that I believe that Papyrus got this all
: messed up in Indy 500.  When you go through one of the turns at Indy at a
: very slow speed (80 to 100 mph) you have virtually no grip.  The manual
: claims that this is because the car is not generating as much downforce
: at low speeds.  They're right abotu that.  BUT, going through the same
: corner at a lower speed also means that you are pulling nowhere near the
: same amount of G's and, therefore, should not need anywhere near as much
: downforce to get through the corner.
:       The reason I ask is because I'm planning on buying ICR when I get
: my new system.  But if Papyrus hasn't fixed this ***ly obvious error
: in ICR, then I doubt I'll buy it.  It seems like it would make road
: courses next to impossible to drive.

: Comments?

        Fixed. Force is now a function of speed and the car handles just
fine at low speeds. I remember that, basically it was an overmodelling of
downforce and a neglect of tire adhesion. The new model is significantly
more realistic.
        They say that Senna died because he lost grip by coming off the
throttle around the bend. You read all the time about rookie drivers
coming off the throttle and getting the car out from behind them. I
rarely see this happen in the game. Rather, the game seems to reward the
driver who will back off on the gas by regaining tire grip. At a track
like Long Beach, going throttle on while not squared is a great way to
crank a nice doughnut on the track.

Have fun. Remember, inside the solid wide line other team's pit crews are
waiting. So, to be truly realistic, stay in the lane and "pull in" to the
crew. Or...mow them down.

Don't ya kinda wish the game didn't have a throttle governor on and you
could bolt past cars on the pace lap and get the black flag? then ignore
it? Stop and go my ass....

--
--
Daniel G. Drumm

writes:

Yes, they use very realistic physics in ICR, it is about 1000% better
than Indy 500, but that also makes it much more difficult to learn.
You must be willing to invest a lot of time practicing and adjust to
be good at ICR -- I still suck, especially on the road courses.  That
has not stopped me from competing in the ICRS race season here on
AOL, however.

Great simulation, and definitely worth getting if you have a machine
with decent speed.  I have a friend who runs it on a 386DX-40 with
5megs, but I wouldn't run be able to tolerate it on any thing less
than my 486DX2-66 now that I have had the experience of racing with
all of the detail turned on.

Hope that helps,

Rob

:       I'm an avid Indy 500 sim. driver and was wondering if ICR handled
: the downforce/speed/cornering AI the same way Indy 500 does.
:       The reason I ask is that I believe that Papyrus got this all
: messed up in Indy 500.

Oh no they didn't, Indy500 was a very accurate simulation, particularly
when you consider its age.

:  When you go through one of the turns at Indy at a
: very slow speed (80 to 100 mph) you have virtually no grip.  The manual
: claims that this is because the car is not generating as much downforce
: at low speeds.  They're right abotu that.  BUT, going through the same
: corner at a lower speed also means that you are pulling nowhere near the
: same amount of G's and, therefore, should not need anywhere near as much
: downforce to get through the corner.

Downforce is proportional to v^2. At 80 to 100mph there is very little
aerodynamic gain from the wings. At 200mph, you've doubled the cornering G
but you've got about four times as much downforce (usually in the 2 tonne
range). Up to about 100mph, the car is relying pretty much solely on its
weight for grip, so it doesn't have a lot of traction. These effects lead
to winged cars being unable to take turns at 70mph, but being rock-steady
at 150mph on the same corner.

Don't believe me? Take a look at Mansell's crash at Phoenix this year. He'd
been running through the turns flat out with no problems. On a slowing down
lap at about 120mph, the car swapped ends and spun into the wall.

:       The reason I ask is because I'm planning on buying ICR when I get
: my new system.

Buy it (as long as you have a powerful PC).

:  But if Papyrus hasn't fixed this ***ly obvious error
: in ICR, then I doubt I'll buy it.  It seems like it would make road
: courses next to impossible to drive.

Remember at road courses, to make up for the lack of speed the cars run
huge barn-door wings to generate sufficient low-speed grip. At Indy, the
front wings are nothing more than trim tabs.

ICR is the best simulation of vehicle handling available for the PC.
Now whether it's as good a racing simulator as F1GP is another matter....

                                                      DR J