rec.autos.simulators

1999: no milestones for RAS?

Tony Rickar

1999: no milestones for RAS?

by Tony Rickar » Sat, 30 Oct 1999 04:00:00

As a lover of road & race track driving sims I have to say 1999 has been
something of a dead loss in terms of new developments.

To be honest it is trying the SOS demo that has prompted me to write this.

Its seldom I feel inclined to rant on RAS but this is one such time:

Well it all starts with GPL (doesn't it always). Its approaching two years
since the demo was launched - and showed us just what advancements had been
made with physics models, graphics engines etc. It set the standards for the
competition to aim at.

We all know the history of GPL sales and the potential lack of appeal of
1967 to the public at large. Therefore, for me a similar project - but even
more historical - 1937 has to be damned good to succeed. Somehow it has to
be the new GPL with more marketing appeal to be a success.

Instead the physics model in the demo is total crap, the graphics engine
destined to give you a headache after 2 laps. I really can't believe the
hype on their web site, though I guess they are relying on the general
public having never tried a Papy sim or SCGT.

Which brings me back to my subject. My best sim is still GPL. Even with the
1.1 patch it is still pretty much the 98 model. GPL introduced me to on-line
racing - nothing has surpassed GPL in terms of on-line capability. GPL has
the best physics, I find the AI very good. The graphics are fine - I prefer
the slightly dull colours to the overly bright alternatives. Sure all could
be improved - and I wish they were.

Instead we have a number of decent products - SCGT - good variety, plus
career mode but lacking that physics model. N3 - personally I think the
physics model is fine for ovals - ***for road courses but then thats a
small percentage of the game. I don't enjoy oval racing so its out for me -
still a decent product. NL - much the same. Probably more frustrating for a
non oval specialist as the tyres get shot much easier. DTR looks quite
good - but its oval (ok the odd figure of 8) racing again and not really my
cup of tea. Driver/Midtown madness had a lot of appeal - just I want more of
a driving sensation.
There still appears to be a lack of decent rally sim.

So is that it? Nothing on the horizon to finish the decade on a high note?

When GPL was talked about 2 years ago the capability to input the parameters
of pretty much any car to model accurately got me believing we would have
had a few GPL engined variations by now.

Sports cars, Champ cars, winged F1 from various eras, saloon cars and so on.
Instead it feels that the GPL engine has been cast aside - unless you know
different.

Sorry to go on - I'm just very impatient about the development of racing
sims - and my perception that developers' potentials are not being utilised
to improve my life makes me cross!

Rant over :)

Tony

Thomas Kellenstin

1999: no milestones for RAS?

by Thomas Kellenstin » Sat, 30 Oct 1999 04:00:00

can there be.....     dare i hope....... that the gpl engine used for the
original Can-Am.... 1966-1973...                  oh well.....

david kar

1999: no milestones for RAS?

by david kar » Sun, 31 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Rally Championship will be the finest driving simulation of all time,
including the future.

sincerely,
David G. Fis . . .

WAIT--cancel that !  Damn this channelling crap, damn this halloween!

DK


> can there be.....     dare i hope....... that the gpl engine used for the
> original Can-Am.... 1966-1973...                  oh well.....


> > As a lover of road & race track driving sims I have to say 1999 has been
> > something of a dead loss in terms of new developments.

> > To be honest it is trying the SOS demo that has prompted me to write
this.

> > Its seldom I feel inclined to rant on RAS but this is one such time:

> > Well it all starts with GPL (doesn't it always). Its approaching two
years
> > since the demo was launched - and showed us just what advancements had
> been
> > made with physics models, graphics engines etc. It set the standards for
> the
> > competition to aim at.

> > We all know the history of GPL sales and the potential lack of appeal of
> > 1967 to the public at large. Therefore, for me a similar project - but
> even
> > more historical - 1937 has to be damned good to succeed. Somehow it has
to
> > be the new GPL with more marketing appeal to be a success.

> > Instead the physics model in the demo is total crap, the graphics engine
> > destined to give you a headache after 2 laps. I really can't believe the
> > hype on their web site, though I guess they are relying on the general
> > public having never tried a Papy sim or SCGT.

> > Which brings me back to my subject. My best sim is still GPL. Even with
> the
> > 1.1 patch it is still pretty much the 98 model. GPL introduced me to
> on-line
> > racing - nothing has surpassed GPL in terms of on-line capability. GPL
has
> > the best physics, I find the AI very good. The graphics are fine - I
> prefer
> > the slightly dull colours to the overly bright alternatives. Sure all
> could
> > be improved - and I wish they were.

> > Instead we have a number of decent products - SCGT - good variety, plus
> > career mode but lacking that physics model. N3 - personally I think the
> > physics model is fine for ovals - ***for road courses but then thats a
> > small percentage of the game. I don't enjoy oval racing so its out for
> me -
> > still a decent product. NL - much the same. Probably more frustrating
for
> a
> > non oval specialist as the tyres get shot much easier. DTR looks quite
> > good - but its oval (ok the odd figure of 8) racing again and not really
> my
> > cup of tea. Driver/Midtown madness had a lot of appeal - just I want
more
> of
> > a driving sensation.
> > There still appears to be a lack of decent rally sim.

> > So is that it? Nothing on the horizon to finish the decade on a high
note?

> > When GPL was talked about 2 years ago the capability to input the
> parameters
> > of pretty much any car to model accurately got me believing we would
have
> > had a few GPL engined variations by now.

> > Sports cars, Champ cars, winged F1 from various eras, saloon cars and so
> on.
> > Instead it feels that the GPL engine has been cast aside - unless you
know
> > different.

> > Sorry to go on - I'm just very impatient about the development of racing
> > sims - and my perception that developers' potentials are not being
> utilised
> > to improve my life makes me cross!

> > Rant over :)

> > Tony

Joel Willstei

1999: no milestones for RAS?

by Joel Willstei » Sun, 31 Oct 1999 04:00:00


    I thought that this sim was going to be released after the current
Can-Am sim due out later this year.

Joel Willstein

Dave Henri

1999: no milestones for RAS?

by Dave Henri » Mon, 01 Nov 1999 03:00:00




> > can there be.....     dare i hope....... that the gpl engine used for the
> > original Can-Am.... 1966-1973...                  oh well.....

>     I thought that this sim was going to be released after the current
> Can-Am sim due out later this year.

> Joel Willstein


  That is a mixing of sims.  Motorsims, which is producing AMA
Superbike, and next year SCCA Can Am, hopes to add a historical pak to
the Can Am program.  That would include McClarens, Chapparells, Lolas,
and the infamous Porche.
  The above poster was "dreaming" of the GPL engine coded by Papyrus
being used for a historical Can Am sim.  
  My take on that....follow a financial disaster(GPL) based on a 30 year
old product (1967 F1) with another series that collapsed under it's own
failure to capture the public.(Can Am 66-73)   I would absolutely LOVE
to see a decent historical sim about Can Am.  The high wings, the Orange
Mclarens, the vacum Chapparalls, the Stewart Lola with a wing 3 feet in
front of the car...I could go on and on.  But I just don't see any
larger audience than the GPL crowd.  
  No way Europe would buy a Can Am Sim.  No way a modern Nascar fan
would buy that product, no way an arcade Need For Speeder would want
that.  I would, and about 12k others, but thats chicken feed.  
  Take a look at the Flight sim market.  Serious sims that rival GPL for
complexity/realism etc are a dying breed(A10 Warthog, cancelled) Eidos
bought a really complex Apache Helo sim, and killed it..  Most of the
upcomming products are mass market(F-22 III){USAF} multiplayer airborne
conversions of Quake....
  I think you will see the racing sim market similarly castrated.
Realism costs big bucks to acheive and the payback is getting smaller
and smaller.  Papy should take that marvelous GPL engine and should be
cranking out sim after sim, making money in little bits instead of big
bucks.  Origin lost tons of cash on it's first big budget flight sim,
Strike Commander, but they used that engine in Privateer and a world war
i and II flight sim.
  I look at the variety of SCGT and just dream of getting the online
play of GPL married to a flexible/designable/expandable sim that could
cover any era.
(rant mode disengaged!)
dave henrie

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