rec.autos.simulators

I received my final copy of Indycar Racing from Papyrus few weeks ago along
with a letter and a T-shirt.  The letter said that I can disclose that I was
one of their Alpha/Beta tester if I didn't talk about their testing procedures.
(oh it feels so good to let this one out)

I believe that IRC is far better simulation than F1GP is.  It's very easy to
drive and feel good in F1GP because the game does most of the steering work
for you(even at ace level).  It was good at the begining.  I never played a
driving game that did not require several days of practice before I can feel
good about driving the car in the game.  But after I got good at the game,
I started to notice things that I don't like.  Steering was at the top of
my list.  I've read that some people drive without steering help, but I don't
know how they can do it(assuming that they are using joystick).  F1GP without
steering help is like driving the car on ice!  F1GP with steering help is not
that great either.  Although helpful at the begining, it prevents you from
taking unconventional lines through corners to pass other cars.  I have rear-
ended computer cars in several occasions because this "help" didn't allow me
to go around the car ahead of me.

Steering control on the ICR, although not perfect, is completely up to me.  
I like the way the car feels on ovals very much, but I feel that the car
lacks traction on street courses(for given down force).  I also feels that
lifting the throttle does not have as much effect on the cornering
characteristics of the car as I expected.  I drove formula ford at Skip
Barbar racing school and know that formula ford will send you to a quick
spin if you "lift" while a lot of side force is on the car.  It may be
because ICs get much of its downforce from wings and weight transfer
doesn't matter as much.  Or is it because of incorrect modeling?

These are my critics of ICR.  I don't dare to throw these critics at F1GP
because they have much more problems to solve before dealing with fine issues
like these.

----

Don't misunderstand me.  I still LOVE my F1GP!  One thing that ICR could not
match was the sound.  Engine noise on F1GP is so much better than that of
ICR.  Another thing that ICR cannot match is that it is a Formula One
simulation.  I like both F1 and IC, but like F1 better.  I've been trying to
convince Papyrus to come up with F1 circuits/cars add-on disk.  Hope other
people on the net can join me in convincing Papyrus.

We now have two great car simulation games.  Don't you feel lucky?

y.e.

Personally I'm still a F1GP fan, but have heared rumours that I think will
convince me that ICR might be better. After seeing ICR some 30 minutes and
testing it some, I come to the conclusion that f1GP's graphic is much more
clean. I don't think it's necessary with all the texturing in ICR. OK, the
car graphics is neat, but does it matter for the feeling of the car? No..
What should be the highest priority in car simulators? The handling of the
car!

Is there anybody out there who thinks they have an "unbeatable" track record
on F1GP(any tracks), feel free to mail me them....
The most incredible lap time I've seen (qualify/without cheeting) is on the
Monaco track : 1:13:4... any better?

Tim.

SOFTWARE-94                                                  
    0DH          -- Tim Alexander Bye --- Oestfold Distrikts Hoeyskole
Admin leder    ----- Tvetervn. 2b ------------ Os Alle 11  3.IT ------

Hmmm... want to give any details of how you did this "lap"?  (ie downforce,
gear ratios, the lot!)  Was there any slip-streaming?

You'll understand I (and many other people) need to be convinced ;)

Cheers,
;) David

        Why?  They support mouse for selecting on menus, why not support it
for steering?

        I can sort-of manage steering on ovals, though it's still marginal,
but road courses are almost impossible.

        IRC also doesn't seem to work reasonably on a 4MB machine.  I can't
load most of the tracks, and the error message is less than helpful.  I've
removed everything of interest but the mouse driver and emm386.  The docs
basically say that if you have memory problems, use a boot disk.  It's
insane to have to boot from a floppy just to run a game (or totally
modify your startup environment)!

        Oh well, I knew there was a reason I hated PC clones... ;-)

--
GNU Emacs is a LISP operating system disguised as a word processor.
 - Doug Mohney, in comp.arch

Randell Jesup, Jack-of-quite-a-few-trades, Commodore Engineering.

Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion.

Tim.

SOFTWARE-94                                                  
    0DH          -- Tim Alexander Bye --- Oestfold Distrikts Hoeyskole
Admin leder    ----- Tvetervn. 2b ------------ Os Alle 11  3.IT ------

[Monaco tips deleted...]

Ah.. You're the old Hakkinen.. The '94 version of Hakkinen drives a
McLaren-Peugeot :-)

This sounds like an almost perfect lap to me. I have sort of
"specialized" in Monaco myself, and with a bit of experimenting with
downforce I just scored my best lap of 1.13.944. There was no
slip-streaming (a pity), nor was it at all perfect in other respects
either - and with a little bit of help from other cars and a little
bit cleaner driving I would think I can make it a good half a second
quicker.

However, I do use steering aid and traction control (although I think
the latter is not of much use anyway) - I simply cannot imagine how
people can drive without steering aid with a joystick.

At Monaco the trick seems to be how to "throw" the car to corners. I
used 60 for front and 40 for rear wings, and a tad rear-weighted
brakes (5 units). All this to make the rear wheels a bit more loose
and to make it possible to be a little daring with slides at the
corners.

I tried with 30 units of rear wing, but the car got a bit too wild for
me, especially in the fast curves after the tunnel straight. Giving up
tracking control has the same effect, although more pronounced.

Somebody recommended full wing for both ends. This makes the car
hopelessly slow to score good times. I tried - and made laps of 1.17 -
1.18.

At Monaco I use, of course, rather short gear values. I can't remember
the exact figures, but the values go from approximately 29 to 55. The
steps I use (from 1-2 to 5-6) are usually: 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 9, making
the car very quick to accelerate. This seems to be beneficial at every
track, but especially so at Monaco.

Yet I am sure there is still plenty room for improvement. With these
values the top speed after the first "uphill" straight is around 280,
after the tunnel approximately 290, and I can drive the fast curves
between the tunnel and the pit lane entry well above 200 km/h (Sorry,
I can't remember the actual names of the corners). Use your calculator
if you want this in Mph.

It is ridiculously easy to win a race at Monaco - I usually drive
about 6-7 seconds per lap faster than the computer-controlled cars,
even if I have made them a bit more powerful than my own car. It seems
not to help, since they brake way too early at the corners. Making
their "skill factor" better does not seem to have the desireable
effect either. I just tried an 8-lap race and got 10.20.610 (1.17.58
average) with a less than perfect effort.

So, how about others?

Are you REALLY serious you can drive without steering aid, and this is
a requirement for the Internet GP competition? Without tracking
control it is relatively easy, but...

        Luru, a.k.a. Mika Hakkinen/McLaren-Ford

Greetings,
Tjark
--
This is a typical case, whom we shall refer to as Mr. A, although
his real name is this:
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