rec.autos.simulators

GPL has its fans (I being one) when it is in the ONLINE racing format.
A race against competition that is favorable and truly at the same
level is important.  The AI in GPL was and is not.  I found the
downloadable adjustments for the AI were not conducive to smooth
running of my sim and was not able to use it, so I merely felt that
this was a sim that allowed me to PRACTICE on my own, and then race
others on the internet.  

Then came the horrible problems as last spring approached.  I belonged
to a league and for a while we were OK, but then things got worse with
the warps, and ghosts, and myriad of other problems that existed.
When the first patch came out, suddenly I was unable to do ANYTHING
with the sim, as it became unable to run properly.

I was forced to uninstall it from my computer and it remains
uninstalled to this very day.

The general public (for the most part) does not have the patience that
the dedicated sim racers have, and I saw on several occasions at the
local (and well known national chain of computer and software) store
whereas the sales persons were actually talking people FROM purchasing
GPL because of the difficulty and the fact that the AI was ( I feel as
well) unreasonable quick, and had no adjustment as with the NASCAR
sims.

I NEVER was able to figure that one out.  Sure this was a WORLD
CHAMPIONSHIP level sim, but not everyone want to run at World
Championship level.  They merely want to be entertained.

The fact that Papy left out the AI adjustment, and I saw the lame
excuses for the reasoning, falls on their shoulders, and the fact that
it didn't do well is that they did not attempt to allow EVERYONE to
enjoy the sim.

There are a lot of people who want to enjoy the race wheel to wheel
with the various drivers.  So what if they are running at 90% .  It is
up to the purchaser at that point.

Papy made a poor business decision and wasted a perfectly good sim
that could be utilized in many respects for years, but I see now that
the NASCAR3 is getting much of the attention now, and deservedly so.
Sure , it has its little bugs, but you can race it like you want to,
online or within with the AI and have a good time with it rather than
being frustrated as the field flies away from you in the first turn as
if they are on warmed tires and with turbochargers, while you are
sitting still.

The word got out, the wrong people made a business decision that cost
a TON of money for them.  I hate it as well, but I blame PAPY and PAPY
alone.

They buck stops there.

Too bad, terrific sim going to waste

Thats a sad state of affairs because as we all know sales people, especially
at the national computer and software chains, are for the most part clueless
as to anything dealing with computers or software.  No way in the world
should they be disauding customers for not buying things, after all they are
in the business of making money, rather they should say how good a game [or
particular software] is; strengths and weaknesses.

Then, yes, perhaps GPL is not the right game for those that want to be
mearly entertained.  This was supposed to be a recreation of the 1967 F1
WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, not necessarily a title that was aimed at those who want
to be merely entertained.

Alison made some comment about this in that it was considered and/or the
beta testers said they needed a more easily adjustable AI.  And while,
maybe, this contributed to GPL not selling well, it nor the high level of
skill necessary to compete in the sim was not the end all be all of the
reasons it didn't do well.

And in the case of GPL, that group of people is fairly small and isn't in
the main stream of average gamers.  However, more adjustable parameters in
the sim might have helped it sell a few more copies.

Nascar3 is getting the attention because its a "NASCAR sim".  If it wasn't,
I highly doubt it would get all that much attention at all.

I like a challenge.  Something to shoot for.   I guess a large portion of
the population no longer does.

Nah, GPL will have NEVER made a TON of money, period.  Its the wrong genre
of racing.  The majority of the *** public doesn't connect with 1967 GP
cars or the tracks or the atmosphere of those times.  Even if it had been
based on an N3 engine [ugh], I bet that it still would have done lukewarm.

Since I enjoy the game, recognize its strengths and weaknesses [strengths
outweight weaknesses], I don't blame Papyrus or any of the guys connected
with the project at all.  They designed the game they way they wanted to
craft it; and thats a huge portion of developing games because its still an
"art", not a science.

     Most sales people are given sales instruction from their managers.
After a period of time most stores like Comp Usa took down their end caps
and displays of GPL,since most of the product either remained or was
returned. Why sell a product knowing that in all likely hood it would be
returned. Rather, try and sell a sim that the fits the customer needs and
abilities. Aferall most people who take the time to ask a clerk for their
opinion of a racing game,most likely aren't the end users of the product.

      Hense,the real problem. GPL wasn't designed for the general public,yet
it was required by Sierra to sell like it was. It was doomed right from the
start. Nascar 3 will most likely sell several million copies,while GPl still
wallows in the 40,000 range.

     The design group at Papyrus wanted to do a lot more with the sim as far
as adjustments and levels of difficulty. But it was Sierras decision to
finalize the product and get it to the retail stores in time for the 4th
quarter sales.

      Again,it wasn't Papyrus,it was Sierras decision.

      Yes,but everything in Nascar 3 is designed to make the racing
experience a positive one for all levels of drivers. Great setups and the
usual % of difficulty of the AIs. To this day I can't understand why it
wasn't mandated for GPL. Afterall,I'm currently running Nascar3 at only 97%.

 Since I enjoy the game, recognize its strengths and weaknesses [strengths

      We should consider ourselves lucky to have GPL,as we will likely never
see another sim quite like it again. On the other hand,due to the lack of
sales,Sierra has shelved the new Cart sim based on the GPL physics engine or
any engine for that matter. As far as they are concerned if it doesn't say
Nascar,it won't make enough money to make it worth while.

      I really don't think that Sierra wants to do battle in the current F1
field,especially with GP3 due out soon.

Joel Willstein

One thing to take a product down because they weren't selling well.  And
another for some high schooler who has questionable knowledge and/or the
managers who have questionable knowledge of either computers or even more
specifically racing games to try and "fit the need of the customer".

Correct.

97%.

Ask Sierra that.  Actually the default setups that came with the GPL update
are actually
quite good.

Personally I'm running N3 at 0% because its way too much like N2 for my
tastes.

Well, yes we should consider ourselves lucky to have GPL for awhile.  Will
we see another sim like it?  Probably not.  However, we should see one
better than it.  They appear every now and then...definetly not on a yearly
cycle.  And the chances of it coming from someone like Sierra/Papyrus are
slimmer than from an upstart.

Who knows, GP3 could be a complete flop.

(large amount of snippage)

David (who has LOTS of questions :) )

David,

     No,from what I've heard,Cart2 was supposed to be started after the
release of Nascar3. But with the poor sales record of GPl,Sierra just
shelved the whole project. You must also remember that Sierra bought the
exculsive license for a Cart sim through the year 2000,so they lost money on
this deal.

Joel Willstein

Yeah, but with the contract ending, maybe there will be some other company
that will produce a CART sim.

True, but I have to wonder if the general public thinks much of
Papyrus's N3 either.  If I wanted a "fun" racing game, I would
probably go for something from EA.  I thought N3 looked really
dated, and not much of an improvement over N2.  My non-***
*** friends prefer the EA racing games (especially the NASCAR
ones) over anything from Papyrus.

My biggest beef about GPL is the 3D hardware support, or lack
thereof.  For a game that really _requires_ a 3D card, just
supporting Glide and the Rendition was a really bad move.  Glide had
some justification, perhaps, but the Rendition cards were already
DOA when the game was being produced.  Either D3D or GL should have
been _fully_ supported, perhaps with dropping the software
rasterizer, which is unplayable with about all the hardware out
there.

Yes, I realize the GL patch is out, but the mirrors really suck.
Since I haven't heard of any card's GL driver accelerating the
mirrors, I have to wonder if the programmers didn't use some really
weird way of drawing them.  It would have been much nicer if the
game shipped with GL support that worked correctly.

Of course, mandatory 3-D hardware support and the heavy CPU
requirements of GPL would make it for "hard-core" players only, but
maybe that's not so bad.  I believe this is what Papyrus's main
audience is, anyway.  The arcade players will go elsewhere.  The
lock on the NASCAR license is long gone.

My biggest beef with GPL is that it ruined me for all other racing
sims! :)  I don't play it much, but I don't feel the need to buy
anything else, either.  I WOULD buy a GPL2, even if it was just a
polished version of GPL.

--
Douglas Bollinger
Mt. Holly Springs, PA   17065

My other computer runs Linux.

     There still is a full year to go on that contract with Cart. And the
only way that most of us would accept a new Cart sim is with a physics
engine the equal of GPL.  Just who do you have in mind for such a project?

Joel Willstein

stop talking like that, I'm getting a boner
NLNLNL