rec.autos.simulators

by **Joe Daws** » Tue, 05 Dec 1995 04:00:00

>PH > Subject: Re: Where's Indy (The 500)

> > Subject: Re: Where's Indy (The 500)

Thanks so much for the answer to my question. It is a most
definitive answer and thanks for taking the time to explain it. I had
no idea all this was going on. Seems a shame though it can't be
included because of all the BS going on. Just seems a little hollow
with out it. Mr. Genter posted a reply also, which implied it was
too restrictive and would not be worth their while???? but seems to
me like they really don't want it even if they sold it as an add on.
A rather vague answer to me. Looks like if they had an Indy Track Pak
it would only enhance the sales of the main deal, which is where the
money is.

What you say does make sense. I'm sure others here appreciate your
taking the time to explain it. I don't know what a PATOOT is, but it
sounds good to me.

The sale of Papy to Sierra I think becomes a bigger worry as it seems
companies Sierra become involved with in this manner tend to bid
everyone adios and become non existant (Dynamix). Maybe this won't
happen. I know they say nothing will change. Sure Jack.

Thanks to all who took the time to reply to my post as I think
everyone is a bit more enlightened and everyones opinion was
appreciated.

by **Dave Henr** » Tue, 05 Dec 1995 04:00:00

PH > Subject: Re: Where's Indy (The 500)
>

> Subject: Re: Where's Indy (The 500)
>
> With Tony George (the owner of Indianapolis Motor Speedway) acting like
> such a patoot about the Indy Racing League, it's no wonder that he won't
> give Papyrus the rights to include IMS in the Indycar package. Of course
> he'd probably have no hesitation at all to include it and the other IRL
> tracks in some other simulation...
>
Actually because Papyrus locked up the rights to the other tracks
before they ran to the IRL, two of the ciruts are included in ICR2.
Phoenix and (I think) Loudon are gonna be on the IRL calender next year.
I have no beef with that idea, however since the Indy 500 is called the
Greatest Spectacle in Racing, I think the actions of Tony George are
reprehensible. I like your choice of words concerning Mr. George, he is
acting like a big PATOOT!
Dave Henrie

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by **Dave Henr** » Tue, 05 Dec 1995 04:00:00

PH > Subject: Re: Where's Indy (The 500)

> Subject: Re: Where's Indy (The 500)
>

> : Why can't Papyrus put out the 500 track at Indy. Why are these
> : "Indycars" If no Indy? Rick Genter say's lic. problems but this is
> : probably a smoke screen for money. Is Papy too cheap to ante up?
> : These questions should be answered and all should question Papyrus
> : until they answer. Same for Daytona w/Nascar. I want Indy and won't
> : shut up until they produce or have a damn good answer why not!
>
> I think the reason given was because of the new circuit that is going to
> compete with Indy next year, has the rights to the track at Indy.
>
Money is not the problem. 2 separate problems. 1st for Daytona,
SEGA has purchased an exlusive license with the track owners to use the
name and shape of Daytona for thier arcade and Sega Saturn video games.
Even though the Daytona USA resembles the real Daytona in shape only, it
is locked up.
Indianapolis. And I won't shut up til the boneheads that own the
Indianapolis Motor Speedway get a clue. Tony George is the head of the
family that owns Indy. He has had some concerns about where Indy car has
been going. i.e. road and street circuts, foriegn drivers, fancy
prototype engine packages. So he formed an alternate organization to
compete with the CART Indycar owners. Papyrus has all thier licenses
through CART. the new league, called the Indy Racing League(IRL) has
control of the Indy 500. To help promote thier series they have limited
the number of non IRL team cars that can enter the race to only 8. The
first 25 cars, no matter how slow, all come from the IRL series. This
effectively prevents the CART/PPG Indycar teams from participating. So
here are the TWO reasons Indy is not in ICR2.
1) Tony George is not affiliated with the group that is running
the Indycar Racing series and therefore not included in it's licensing
agreements.
2) Tony George is RUINING the Indy 500 by NOT allowing open
qualifying to the best 33 car/driver/teams. Therefore, even IF Papyrus
goes outside of thier CART aggreements and Licenses the Indy track, it
should NOT be included because it is NOT a part of Indycar Races. Keep
in mind that the Engine and Chassis package rules will be changed after
this year and the two series will not even be close to compatible.

If you want to make a different game that includes the IRL series
feel free, but since I race the cars and tracks of the CART/PPG Indycar
series, I won't be wasting my time with stock block Buicks that Tony
George loves so much.
Dave Henrie
Indy Cars without the Indy 500? Blame Tony George and the IRL.

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by **Ron Bu** » Wed, 06 Dec 1995 04:00:00

A PATOOT is the last part of the horse to go over the fence.
Not a wonderful thing.

Ron (Buckster Express)---------->

by **RickGent** » Thu, 07 Dec 1995 04:00:00

but seems to
me like they really don't want it even if they sold it as an add on.
A rather vague answer to me. Looks like if they had an Indy Track Pak
it would only enhance the sales of the main deal, which is where the
money is.
<<<

We don't make money on the track packs. As to whether the track packs
increase sales of the main product, I don't think we have a way to measure
that...

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

by **Andrew R. Tef** » Fri, 08 Dec 1995 04:00:00

I don't understand why you think Papyrus is somehow trying to get away
with something here. I tried to explain it in email.

If they *can* license it, but doing so would cost them a lot of money,
that is going to drive up the cost to the consumer of the add-on track.
You can't expect them to swallow the cost -- they're a business. I'm
sure they know enough to weigh the cost against any potential sales
increase and the ability to recoup the cost by raising the product
price.

So as the cost to create the track pack goes up, so does the price. How
much are you willing to pay for the track? $50? $100? $500? I seem to
remember you told me something less than $50.

So it's not in Papyrus's interest, it's not in your interest, it's not
in anyone's interest, for papyrus to pay a restrictive amount to license
it. And knowing the Speedway as we all do, a "restrictive amount" is a
fair certainty.

There's nothing disingenuous, vague or sinister about that. It is simple
market economics. I'm sure they DO want it and would LOVE to be able to
afford to use it, for exactly the reason you state.

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