rec.autos.simulators

Could someone please explain the pros and cons of setting your brakes to
the front and to the rear in World Circuit.

I have been setting my brakes to the front as of late (around 10), and
have been getting faster lap times then when they are set to the rear or
nuetral.  The manual doesn't explain this setting to well though.

Any advice or information would be appreciated.

P.S. - Add this to your wish list for WC2

- Networking, similar to doom.  Imagine, 4 or 5 players at at time!
- A track editor to create new tracks. (Probably difficult).
- Keep the graphics fast.  Don't worry about looking overly fantastic.

Thanks.

Jeff Slack
University Of Michigan

The way I understand it is this. The brake balance allows the
brakes at one end of the car to apply before the other. Therefore
if you set the BB to the front then the front end will brake first.
This has its advantages, for example if you have a heavy downforce
at the front and light at the rear then setting the brakes to the
front will stop you quicker. On the other hand putting the BB at
the back means that the front wheels are rotating freely into the
corner while the back wheels are slowing you down.

There is no right or wrong way to set the BB, it is down to
personal preference. BTW you will see players in the WCPCHOF
detting the BB way to the rear. This creates oversteer and allows
them to get into the corners faster. Try this with a fullen laden
race car however and you will lose the back end guaranteed.

Great idea!

Maybe track update packs would be better, to mirror changes to the
actual circuits.

I agree, smoothness is most important.

Paul

Live Long and Prosper

Chris Carter

Know the traction circle concept, taught in every basic driving
school class? The idea is that tires only have so much grip
available that can be given to a "circle" with no
accel/braking/turning vectors at the center, then full braking,
full accel, turning left/right, and points in between defining your
circle of traction... Practical aspect being that if you try to turn
a corner under full braking, no doubt you exceed the circle of
traction available and understeer occurs. Got to let off the brakes
a bit to devote some of the grip available towards turning the car
into the corner, and this is also why you need to balance throttle
and turning coming out of a corner, because in addition to the
traction circle idea, you are now accelerating with the rear wheels
thus picking up the nose putting more traction towards the rear of
the car on the driving wheels and taking weight off the front of the
car on the steering wheels....

        Play with it on your street car sometime... pick a constant
radius turn at highway speeds and check the turn in/out factors
based on throttle inputs only. More throttle more relative
understeer, throttle off you will see the car turn in more. I am NOT
talking about spinning the rears to oversteer, just mild throttle
changes approaching your tires traction limits when these effects
are easily visible.

For your sim, if you find yourself understeering in a corner, then
adjust brake balance to the rear (fronts locked and steering,
exceeds grip available, so shift work rearward), but if you find
yourself oversteering, even if smooth into the corner, then this
means the rears are possibly locking up first so shift brake balance
more towards the front, thus distributing work more evenly. When you
get to a neutral balance of controllability (or uncontrollability if
overcooking the entrance) then you've found a good balance for you.

Of course, setup has a LOT to do with the relative stiffness at each
corner affecting the weight shift and effects of brake balance, so
don't start here, end here. Springs/shocks/weighting affects.

And I don't own F1gp, or IC, just know cars and how it should be
when you have a well-balanced race setup that is a joy to drive.

--

1981 KS region SCCA H/S Solo II #2 '65 VW Squareback. Fav cars: '64
Mustang; '69 Fury III with 440 Super Commando & 2.73 rear end; sad
clipped '75 2.0 914. Current: 540cc 4dr Suzuki Alto II, Corolla 1600
Racing sim: NASCAR <good for a sim> and, Japan IS an AutoX course!

Yea I probably oversimplfied things a bit but I still think the concept is
sound.  You are also over looking some very important details - We are talking
about open wheel _rear_ engine race cars whose center of gravity is level with
or _below_ the axles.  The fact that a significant portion of the cars weight
is behind the rear axle and that the weight of the car is "slung" from the
axles, not riding on top of them,  greatly reduces the inertia induced pitch
forward effect.  Look at an Indy car or Formula One race when they are run on a
road course - you always see the front wheels lock up first because there is
less weight on the front of the car.  Remember you have to take into account
that under race conditions those huge rear spoilers cause the effective weight
on the rear axle to be many times the effective weight on the front axles.  Not
to mention that in F1 the rear tires are significantly wider than the fronts.
Expanding on your line of thought you can look at it this way.  At speed
Indy/F1 cars have a pretty sigificant rear bias where weight is concerned - due
to acceleration, down force and drag factors.  Because of these last two
factors heavy braking in an Indy/F1 car does not even get the car back to a
neutral balance wieght balance much less a forward biased one.  Yea at some
point you lose aero effects and catch up and get to a front bias but this
probably won't happen in an F1 until get to under 75km/h - probably 100km/h in
Indy cars (you lose the benefit of the Indy cars ground effects at a higher
speed than you lose the drag and wing effects)

Your arguments are dead on for a car whose center of gravity is significantly
_above_ the plane of the axles.  This is not the case for Indy or F1 cars.  The
traction cricle still applies but because of the way the weight in Indy/F1 cars
is suspended the dynamics are slightly different.

Isn't this what I said.

Very true.

Chris