rec.autos.simulators

  Ok, I shouls post this before it drives me crazy.  In the manual, it
says that if your car is loose entering corners, you should move weight
forward and/or add spoiler.  This makes sense; too much weight in the
rear will cause the back of the car to almost break loose, so moving weight
forward will take this away and more spoiler will help press the back of the
car down against the track.  HOWEVER, it also says that if the car is loose
coming out of the corner, you should move weight _back_ and/or softening
the rear shocks.  HUH?  If you move weight back it will increase traction
on the rear tires, but won't this be outweighed by the excess weight?  
Won't softening rear shocks allow even more weight redistribute to the rear
and loosen it up even more?  This make no sense to me!  

    Jp

first thing to do is forget how it feels entering and exiting the turn and concentrate on what it feels like in the middle of the turn. if it is loose move weight forward, pushes pull it back. How the car feels entering and exiting the turn is best adjusted with shocks, tire pressure and throttle control.

This makes sense; too much weight in the

This is also where i get confused, what to adjust ? I think stiffening the right rear and softening the left front is the first step, try and keep some of that weight from transfering to the rear.

 HUH?  If you move weight back it will increase traction

I never look at manual any more there are better sources of info on setup,    (no offense Steve V.)

Softening the shock/spring will dampen the weight transfer onto that wheel.
Therefore, if you soften a wheel that is getting weight transferred to it -
like the rear wheels when you hit the throttle - you will dampen the weight
transfer onto the rear wheel.  By slowing the transfer of weight - the wheel
is less likely to lose grip and thereby slide.  The bad news is the slower
weight transfer can make the car seem unresponsive - so this is a delicate
balance.
/TomH

No, tightening the rear shocks will increase weight transfer to the
rear and loosen the car.  Softening the rear shocks should definitely
tighen the car.

For a loose condition on exit, the best solution for me is to
soften the Left Rear shock (and/or tire pressure).  Tightening
the Left Front shock or tire pressure has the same effect on
exit.  This is assuming you are on an oval of course.  If you
are turning right, the right side of the car controls handling
on exit.

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports

not so.  softer shocks increase bite, period.  therefore you are putting
bite in the rear with softer shocks in the rear.  weight in the back will
make the car loose going in and tight going out.  the weight helps set the
car through the shocks coming out of the corner.  going in though, it acts
like swinging a yo yo on a string, when you turn, all the weight want to fly
outside.  There is a give and take to this though, which is why you must
strive and experiment for the best balance possible.  Is this clear?

:
:
: Softening the shock/spring will dampen the weight transfer onto that wheel.
: Therefore, if you soften a wheel that is getting weight transferred to it -
: like the rear wheels when you hit the throttle - you will dampen the weight
: transfer onto the rear wheel.  By slowing the transfer of weight - the wheel
: is less likely to lose grip and thereby slide.  The bad news is the slower
: weight transfer can make the car seem unresponsive - so this is a delicate
: balance.
: /TomH

Just one question: if the transfer of weight to the rear wheel is slower,
doesn't that mean that LESS rear grip is available because less weight is
available to push the rear wheels on to the track ?

Or is it the case that the rear wheel has less momentum to push against when
it starts accelerating, due to the absorption of force by the spring, and so
doesn't slide ? (i.e. Does the rear kind of squat down when you accelerate ?)

Am I confused ?

Ryan Mitchley

The drawback is that more weight in the rear can cause you problems on
corner entry (the Porsche 911 being the classic "tail-heavy" example),
but then everything about car setup involves a compromise of some
kind. Choose the fastest compromise that you can comfortably keep on
the track.

Cheers!
John

So confused you apparently dont even know your own name, ks Dennid :-)

more seriously though, I know softening the shocks/springs gives you more
grip (as it should) and I think its because the car is able to roll slightly
when its going around the corners, so it takes some of the 'sideways' force
rather than everything going onto the tires and this means that effectively
the tires are getting less stress than if the car was rigidly fixed to them.
Of course I could be completely wrong, but its the best explanation I can
come up with.

it works anyway

Steve

HH

The "scientific phrase" (U.S.) might be BLISTER. The so called shocks
should be thought of more as springs. A softer rear shock (spring) will
allow the weight to transfer to to the back of the car. This is
transfered from the the front of the car. Thus the rocking motion you
see on the***pit view as you speed up and hit the brakes. The extra
rear % is known as the pendulam effect. Or like swinging you little
brother in circles by his hands, spin him fast enough and let go. It is
just like trying to corner at Hickory with a lot of rear % on stiff
shocks. With stiff shocks the tire takes all the abuse. It would be like
a Kart with no suspension.  Softer setups let the shock (spring) do the
work. The sideways grip is known as SIDE BITE. You have to ballance car
with f\r % and shock values. In real life the shock only controls weight
transfer speed. But you dont need to know that for N2 so if you don't
setup the real thing forget about what a shock does in real life. Unless
you have GP2 and use the advanced setups with compression and rebound.

Adding more download to a tyre doesn't quite increase the gri in
proportion, and this is why softening springs improves grip.  You can get
more cornering force from one end of the car by trying to share the load
eenly between the tyres - except that weight transfer is going to happen,
so you need to resist it somewhere...

Another way to look at it is that with extremely stiff springs/dampers, as
soon as you reach any sort of bump in the track (and there will always be
some) the wheel will just hop across the crests of the ripples - wheel in
air = no grip.  Softer springs/dampers allow the wheel to follow the
ground properly, but make it less stable and responsive.

HTH,
Jonny
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