rec.autos.simulators

Actually, it's a developpment choice they made. It's adjusting to YOUR
driving style, so I don't see why people complaint. Just wait a couple of
weeks to LEARN the tracks and it will be more easy. Oh well...

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard!
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
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- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
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I still really like GPL so dont flame the hell out if me......

Lorne

Well said. Why the term 'options' seems to scare game makers just
boggles my mind.

OPTIONS!!!!!!!!! We all want them. The more the better. Nuf said.

It never really bothered me that much.  When I got the demo, I just assumed
that the space above and below would be filled w/race info such as speed, pos,
current lap, etc., which code was not finished yet.  I was disappointed when I
got the final, to find it wasn't so.  But actually now, I'm finding I *like*
not having those things, it's less distraction & I focus on the driving better.

As far as *why* they did it, & didn't put a full screen option, I think it's
the performance issue.  The game puts a *terrible* drain on the computer, the
demo, with only 1 car was right slow & jerky on my 300 mHz PII, w/Rage Pro 3d
card. I can't imagine with a full field.  I got a Monster 3D II in anticipation
of the game a couple weeks ago, I get a steady 32-36fps solo, on the start line
w/a full field it drops to 15-20 fps. Once I'm out of traffic it climbs back
into the 30-32 range.

And that's with the letterbox.  If it had to redraw all that extra real estate
that would come with a full screen, I think the average person would find it
unplayable even in training mode.  And if there was a fullscreen option, a lot
of people would be pissed they couldn't use it I think.

Besides, if you stop & think about it, what good is that extra space? You could
draw some more clouds up above.  You could look down at your lap & make sure
your fly's zipped. But it wouldn't really add anything to the game.  I think
they made the right choice really.

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Very......      good point(s) !!!!!!!

Lorne
PS, but dont you think the AI could use a 0 to 100% feature ?

Options = effort! Each option increases program complexity and
introduces possible
error cases...

l8er
ronny

--
Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure,
kiddo?"

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Oh yes, definately:)  Sorry, I didn't get around to addressing that issue, I
tend to ramble on too much & bore people I know.  So I try not to bite off too
much at once <G>

I really would like to see something where the AI skill could be set.  I have
had other racing sims that allowed this, and it helped ease the frustration
greatly while learning.

Also, two other points.  1st, the game basically places you in a 1967 F1 race
with no prior experience.  If you did that for real, you would surely die.  An
AI skill adjustment would give you the chance to work up thru the "minor
leagues".  2nd, there are those out there (myself included) who simply do not
have the skill, coordination or mental agility to excel at this game as-is.
Being able to adjust the AI skill would allow us to level the playing field so
we too can have an enjoyable, competitive experience.

Lee

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Once again .......well said.
I would not sell yourself short though......
I have my own Ideas on why it is very hard to drive fast (lap after lap) in GPL
and I think the main reason is that the cars perform in such a realistic "real"
manner........but other elements (beyond any fault of the sim) make it really
hard to do well.

This was my post on this very subject.

BAD LAP TIMES IN GPL ?? (THIS IS WHY)

GPL is the most "real", true to life sim ever made (by far).
There is just one problem....... well three.......and they all stem
from the fact that the game is so ....maybe to...."real" in some
ways....yet very lacking in others (maybe not the fault of the sim).
I think what we need to think about is that although we are driving
a real 1967 F1 car (they did a fantastic job on this in the sim) we are
at a MAJOR DISADVANTAGE to the real life race drivers of that time.

1. The real drivers had a real life real 3d view of the road
(and everything around them) .....we are looking at screens.

2. The real drivers could FEEL GRIP through the seat of their pants,
through the wheel, through wind hitting the car, through the effects the
body goes through as the car unweights and gets light, etc.
We only have what we see the car doing on screen and what sounds
the tires are making through our pc speakers to get our feel of "grip".

3. Real drivers had good reason to fear for their lives as they raced in
that time (F1 in 1998 is 100 times more safe and it`s still not "safe").
When your life is on the line you develop a type of concentration thats
just not possible in a computer sim......
We can only develop our levels of concentration by our desire to do well
and how long we can stare at our screens without getting a headache.
FEAR is a great way to help build (and keep) needed concentration levels.

So does the above make GPL good ? or bad?
I think that if someone can do real fast laps in this sim (lap afer lap)
they should sign up to a real racing school and/or real life racing league,
because when they add their sim skills to the advantages
(above three points) that real life racers have.........they could very well
have more talent than the top F1 drivers of today (or back then).

Back to GPL good or bad?........
I dont know....... and after each lap I drive I dont seem to get
any closer to an answer.

I wonder if anyone will be able to master it......
If no one can master it, then I think it`s more a reflection on the real
life things (feelings) a SIM lacks than any problem with the talent level
of the top sim racers, or what they might be able to do in the real car
if given half the chance.
All I know, is that it is very Interesting, looks great,
and It`s a really nice change from GP2, F1RS, ICR2 etc.
It can also "drive" you crazy......

Let me know what you think.

Lorne

Excellent!  I agree with all the points you make, and have thought about the
effects of all of them on every racing game I've ever played (many, going back
to 1985).

In the older games all these issues contributed to the difficulty of the game,
but to a much lesser extent I think as the cars were less realistically
simulated, and were more forgiving of minor mistakes.

In GPL though, almost any  mistake is enough to put you off the track, if you
don't instantly provide the correct control inputs.  The issues you discuss in
point #2 all work to provide cues to a driver to let him know when things are
getting too close to the edge; in GPL we don't have these things.

So yes, the incredible realism of the car's handling and performance, combined
with interacting with a 3d world through a 2d screen, using controls which are
not "physically" linked to the game world, make things far more difficult.  I
really, really wish that it was possible to have a force-feedback wheel or
stick in this game.  That would help a lot I think.  Maybe their
next-generation engine will be up to the challenge of this.

To be fair though, they have done as much as they can, I think,  in providing
visual cues as to how the car is behaving.  I am finding that as I play more, I
am beginning to "sense" when the car is about to get away from me, before it
happens.  I can't really say what it is I'm seeing that clues me in, but
something tells me it might be time to back off just a hair.  I believe the
manual hinted at this; it impresses the hell out of me that they could do so,
and did it in such a subtle way that it doesn't jump in your face & seem
unnatural.

Also there is the incredible responsiveness of the car (which makes it so hard
to drive initally)  Once again, the more I play, the more skillfully I can use
steering, throttle & brakes to avoid disaster.  I mean, I can come up on a turn
at 180+, brake a little too late & the rear end comes unstuck which was certain
to have me spinning into the guardrail at first, but now with extremely subtle
control inputs I can (usually) keep it under control & drift around the turn.
If the handling wasn't modelled so well I'm not sure I could do this.  So that
realism that works against you at first can also work in your favor as you get
accustomed to it.

Is GPL good or bad?  I think it's gonna be inaccessable to a lot of people,
both from hardware & skill points of view (I'm sure I'll fall into the "skill"
category) and this perhaps makes it a "bad" game.  Or perhaps a "niche" game
would be a better term.  And yet, as frustrated as I have gotten with it, I
keep coming back for more. And more.  And more.  And the frustration, which has
so often had me thinking badly of games in the past, has not turned me against
this one.  The more I play, the better I like it (and the more impressed I am
with the development team)  So I guess from my point of view it's "good". I
think Papy has done an outstanding job given the limitations of the media they
have to work with.

Lee

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Before considering any action (lift off throttle, steering input,
cresting a hill, etc, etc) one has to be aware of what the possible
repurcussions are and be prepared to act instantly - or even ahead of
the action to counteract the effect as it happens.

I have found this aspect to be true to life in sims like GPL (still
waiting for my local EB to get me a copy!!) and GP2.  If one reacts to
the car once it starts to let go, you are too late... if one is ready to
input the opposite lock because of an anticipated slide and even dials
in just a little to compensate for the anticiapted behaviour then one
can drive consistently.  Computer sims model this very well, because it
is not based on the seat of the pants motion of the car but on
predictable behaviour from a given setup.

My $0.02

Gian Vitzthum.

I just bought GPL and it is the first racing sim that I have worked at
for several hours and had two responses:

1) I can keep working at this for lots of hours more and it'll hold my
interest.

2) What a lot of fun!

Here is where I may be a bit different from the rest of you. I don't
really care if I  do 1:30 at Monza or to win the race. (I doubt that I
ever will). If I can just be in the race its enough fun. I downloaded
the AI adjutment do dad from one of the GPL sites and it gives me the
chance to beat some of the other racers. (My vote for AI adjustment
built into the game). For me it is enough fun making progress,
learning how to stay on the track,  building a feel for controlling
the car and just feeling like I'm really on a race track.

All of the serious dialogue about "Is it too hard" almost scared me
off of this sim. But now that I bought it, I'm sure glad I gave it a
try.

Tom Weber

Tom Weber
St. Louis, Missouri, USA

http://www.icon-stl.net/~tweber/
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