rec.autos.simulators

 After running in three races online last night, and two the
night before, I see the start of a (to me) disturbing trend:

 Downright rude (and even hostile) drivers in chat.

 I know it may be frustrating to some drivers to have to contend
with slower cars...while I'm reasonably fast at some tracks, I am
definitely not fast on all of them (if you see me show up at
Mosport, you might as well park your car to avoid me!), and while
not the slowest, I started there just as most all of you probably
did.

 This does not, however, make cursing other drivers in chat mode
during the race and after an acceptable thing to do.

 I wasn't shocked to hear it (I used to be a patch-holding
"Outlaw" biker back in my younger days, so nothing really
suprises me), but I thought it was rather thoughtless of some in
the race to openly flame someone who is having a bit of
difficulty in driving. This isn't the way to win friends and
influence people.

 Two nights ago at Zandvoort, we had (at least up front) an
awesome race, where only 3 of the drivers were really reasonably
fast, and the rest were well back in times, but they are learning
too.  I was one of those back in times...I had only driven
Zandvoort for the first time for about 20~30 laps the night
before, but I figured I could still run and just stay out of the
way. As it turned out, I qualified a bit over 3 sec. behind, but
got a good clean start and was in 2nd by the third turn.

 By following the leader around and noting which lines will work
(the AI cars are a bit too "perfect" in their lines to learn
anything but the "ideal" line), I was able to drop my lap times
to those equal to the race leader, and a full 3 seconds per lap
faster than I'd ever ran before. The two of us never got
separated by more than 20 car lengths until I closed and started
pressuring him, and rather than try a risky pass, I waited for a
mistake. It happened, and I cleanly passed and (eventually) won.

 Others slower drivers can benefit the same way as I did, and
they (nor I) need anyone else to tell us that we are an ass, what
we do with our mothers, goats, etc. We're there to compete, to
try to go fast, and to *learn* from the fast drivers.

 Last night at Spa, drivers were openly hostile to some others
who didn't clear the track for the faster cars when being
overtaken and lapped. This is uncalled for in any race, and only
serves to discourage more drivers from playing online. It's *NOT*
the private playground of a select few. If you feel the need to
only run with your pals, then by all means feel free to do
so....and password the race so no one else can enter!

 I had fun at Spa, learned a few new lines/ways to get around the
course, and shaved significant time off my best ever laps.

 Later on at one of the two Monza races, I was taken out by a car
with BAD warping problems wile running pretty well and in the top
3. I waited until I had him on a long straight and he was full
left, and went full right so as to give plenty of room, and still
got nailed when his car warped into my left tires. Did I call him
names? *** to anyone who'd listen? Nope. That is online racing.
I'm sure future improvements in VROC software will enable hosts
to limit the number of players and whatnot, but for now, almost
all of us are "new" to GPL online...give us a break. Getting all
worked up over it isn't worth it...how you gonna play in the good
series coming up if you die of a aneurysm (sp?) because someone
plowed you at Parabolica in the racing equivalent of a "pickup
game"?

 In short, everyone needs to follow a few simple rules:

 Be reasonably polite to other drivers, you were once new to
racing as well.

 LOOK at the comment field on the VROC site before Joining a
game...if it says 10 cars max. and there are already 12 there,
don't join! (There does seem to be a bit of a problem with VROC
correctly counting cars, however. Spa showed 8 when I joined and
there were already 15~17 there. (Yes, ***ia, I did a new
complete Status before joining.) Likewise, if it says "< 1:40
laps" and you cannot run consistent 1:39's at least, don't join!
It is the host's computer you're on...respect their wishes!

 Lastly to those who seem to think themselves as "elite"
racers...password your races if you don't want us "lamers" (your
words, not mine) participating. Once in your secure little world,
you can call each other all the names you'd like. If you don't
lock the rest of the world out, don't start publicly whining
about how someone knocked you out of the race....you (in a sense)
asked for it.

BTW, I should have the parts for the 'puter upgrade here today
(fingers crossed), so I should be back to hosting on the T-1
sometime this weekend. With the additional speed, I should be
able to have a full field of 20 on with no problems.

 I do race offline, as well as for real in a real car some
weekends, so I've got my Kevlar suit....flame away at my comments
if you must.

Doc Wynne
Technical Support & Network Services
Support Engineering/dickson.net
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
--
Never a late apex, never a dull moment.                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

The ranting & raving started as I went back to the replay ("Idiots!! Go
somewhere else. If you can't keep up to our times, GET OUT OF HERE!" or
something was what he was saying to people - might I add, he had crashed on
the first two corners of that lap by himself). He was warping so badly that
his car had disappeared from the time he was going through Burnenville until
I crashed into him at Malmady. Most of the other racers online at the time
appeared fine on the replay. What's more, later as the practice session
ended, this guy ignored REPEATED requests to come in to the pits
immediately. I think he thought this means drive to the pits ASAP. NO!! --
Hit "ESC" and return. Some people are in Europe and have to pay by the
minute for phone calls - I'm sure they appreciate it when people keep the
game moving along. Five minutes later, the race started (it was a looonngg
lap! - probably he lost his concentration when the host started shouting at
him)

Bottom line: Be CONSIDERATE of others on the track. Watch your mirrors, move
off the racing line if you are going slow (especially IF YOU ARE ON YOUR
OUTLAP). Pull over to one side & wave your arm to indicate to the driver
that you are moving over for them. Don't shift-R if you can help it (if
you're upside down or lost a wheel - ok... but if you're just on the
curbing... DRIVE back on!) - AND DON'T move onto the racing line or stay in
the centre of the track.

I think I might publish a GPL Netiquette Guide.

doktorB
http://webhome.idirect.com/~drbryan/gpl
-- Exclusive offer: PDPI L4 Digital Gamecard
   ONLY $80.95 US with Passwords on my GPL page
   Get rid of Jitters & poor framerates today! --

Cheers!

--
Graeme Nash

You know what to do with "don't_spam_me"...
http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/
ICQ# 11257824

"My car appeared to disagree with my preference for living"

:  After running in three races online last night, and two the
: night before, I see the start of a (to me) disturbing trend:

:  Downright rude (and even hostile) drivers in chat.

<big ol' snip>

Amen, brother.  We can't all be Jim Clarks off the bat.  I think it is
better for the online racing community as a whole if you are a bit patient
with new drivers.  Eventually they will improve and it will mean better
competition for all of us.  Snipe and *** at them, and they may go away
and not come back.  What is the point in that?!

I used to play a bit of Quake when it first came out and the folks on
servers were polite and really had fun.  After a while it started to
become chock-full of braggarts and *** folks.  I don't have the time or
patience with that sort of behaviour so I rarely play Quake any longer
unless it is a bunch of folks I know.

I guess the point I am trying to make here is that beginners need a nicer
environment to learn how to race.  True, some of us have had some
seat-time in real race cars, know race strategy etc. Newbies need time to
learn what its all about.  The only way they can do it is by racing
online.  Sure, most of the people they race against will be faster.  For
now, at least....

Cut 'em a break.  If someone balks you on a flier, remember that they are
probably driving like hell to stay out of the way!  It happens in "real"
racing all the time.  Why the heck wouldn't it happen online where the
skill levels will be even more disparate?

my $.02,

J.

Yeah I definitely agree, I've seen the same thing, even when hosting
races on my server.

You sometimes have the guys complaining about "I Can't get a clear lap in
qualifying cuz all the slow drivers.." Guess what.. that's racing, if you
want totally clear laps than go race offline or in training mode.

I also have seen the guys who want to call the people names when accidents
occur I think these people also should not be playing online.

On my server when I see this going on, I ask the person to cut the attitude,
that I want to keep my server a "friendly" server... so far that has worked.
One of the times I was seeing this childish behaviour I was hosting Kaylami
and I was one of the slow people this guy was ***ing about because of
his ruined qualifying laps... Give me a break...

I've raced on passworded servers running on PRO damage and I enjoy that
too, but when I am racing on open online servers, I recognise when I'm
joining the server that the racing atmosphere will be less serious and
I wouldn't be racing there if I couldn't deal with it.

Also I've seen the warping people too, and experienced the frustration
of getting warp crashed while leading a last lap... I do the same thing
you do Doc, get back on the track and continue, if I was that worried
about warpers and slow drivers I would not be racing on open online servers.

My advice to persons hosting who see bad behaviour, don't allow people
to do that on your server... This would be even easier if Papyrus had
given us a kick command on the server, but you can do your best to let
these people know that bad behaviour is not welcomed on your server..

My advice to people who act like that, join an online league with
higher skilled racers like yourself who make less mistakes, otherwise go back
to racing the perfect AI or training mode by yourself on the track.

The rest of us want a normal friendly racing atmosphere even with
racing incidents where drivers who are slower than us are allowed out
on the track, we will keep learning and having fun, this ain't real life
folks, no need to get road rage.

Seeyas on the track.

--John (Joao) Silva

He may have had in-car chat turned off and just never saw it. I do
this as some people insist on chattering all the time instead of
driving and it can be quite distracting at the wrong moment.

Cheers!
John

Randy

I do. I'll hold my line if it's anywhere other than a long
straight so as to not throw the car off balance. Once to an area
where I *know* I can safely move over, I do so, but watching my
mirrors so I can verify that the way I'm moving off line isn't
the one that the faster car has chosen to try to pass on their
own. :)

 I finally figured out (after the race) that it wasn't me they
were referring to....several of us were having a pretty good dice
for the 4th thru the 7th positions, marked by a few goofs and a
crash or three, usually out of control cars overcooking corners
and bouncing back onto the track. Despite three off-track
"excursions", I still finished 5th, 1:30 down to the winner.

 Regards,

Doc
phRed '95 - CSP #25
Team Monster Miata Stereo
--
Never a late apex, never a dull moment.                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

Hmmm.. hadn't thought about that.

Why though???

I see the messages in my peripheral view (I'm looking to the next corner
already), and messaging REALLY does not both me WHATSOEVER.

Distracting??? No! If you can't control your impulse to take your eyes every
time a message pops up (when you're not going to read it anyway as you're
"concentrating"), sorry!! - but I CAN! I wait till I'm on a straight
section, then glance up for a fraction of a second.

Sometimes the message will be gone by and I'll have missed it, but what's
the diff??-- if you had Messaging turn off, you wouldn't have seen it
anyways. At least with Messaging ON, you would have had a better opportunity
to see the message. I might not catch every message, but would have to say I
get most of them, and don't find chatter to be the source of many many
Off-track excursions!!

Anyhow, Chat Messaging should always be turned on in my opinion - like in
this case, the host was INSTRUCTING the driver to exit the track - practice
is over... come on...  we don't want to sit around for 5 minutes watching
you spin off the track whilst we have a race waiting to be started. Also, if
a host is planning on disconnecting the server for whatever reason
(extremely bad warping, 95% of the field wiped out on the grid, etc)...
EVERYONE would benefit from knowing what was going on.

Also, it is called "Communication" between the drivers. A "Sorry" if you
inadvertantly cause an accident. A "laping u" if you're REALLY stuck behind
a slow driver who won't move over, a "pitting" if your going to be slowing
down on a lap to come into the pits, etc. etc. etc..

Granted, we should be concentrating on driving, not typing (I've typed many
a message heading down the straights at Spa myself), but I really see the
need for ALL drivers to be aware of what's going on.

And hey... you might even know who to "avoid" from reading the messages!

Everyone's entitled to their opinion/preferences, but John(& others)...
I hope you SEE THE LIGHT!!

Thanks,
doktorB
http://webhome.idirect.com/~drbryan/gpl

Great post, very well written, and absolutely correct. I ahd my first
taste of vroc a couple of nights ago, and the same thing was
happening, I was at Kyalami (as it was the only race that was
available) and I don't know the circuit at all, but am fairly quick
at the circuits I know.

I tried out a practice session and attempted to keep out of peoples
way, as I was a lot slower than the quick guys cos the circuit was
new to me. I did not take part in the race as I would not have been
even slighlty competitive, but did want to try a practice session to
just see if my set-up worked ok on vroc (it did, boy, it DID!)

Some others at the circuit were also slow, and maybe due to
inexperience were getting in the way of some of the other "quick"
drivers, they were flaming people quite a bit? Totally unnecessary in
my view. As you say, we were *ALL* slow at some time or another?
(unless you were born with a silver joystick in your mouth?)

Lets have a bit of patience and understanding....and keep out of *MY*
way!!!!

8-)

*Peter*    8-)
(NB: remove asterisk to e-mail)

Well, we can agree to disagree. While I'm ontrack I have no interest
in the chatter of others, commentaries or whatever, and my eyes will
flick to anything that happens around me - it might be important. For
that reason I see no reason to have chat on.

It's not difficult to see after all - every marshall waving a flag is
difficult to miss!

This is common sense. If I move over I don't want the guy lapping me
to start typing "Thanks" and***up in the next corner because of
that and take me out. I moved over, he's grateful, why tell me? If
someone moves over and I'm grateful I'll say so afterwards, but I'd
hate to think people thought me rude because I DIDN'T type anything,
preferring to concentrate on driving.

I have :-) If other people need chat to know what's going on that's
okay, but I don't see the need for it. As soon as people use it for
meaningful stuff and not just chattering as I try to lap I might turn
it on and, who knows, even look at it, but no need so far :-)

Cheers!
John

doktorB
---