rec.autos.simulators

Sears Point - grip (or lack thereof)

Tim

Sears Point - grip (or lack thereof)

by Tim » Sun, 26 May 2002 09:25:15

Our league is about a month away from running SP in N2002, and I can't
believe I haven't seen more posts about the lack of grip at this
track. It's like driving on ice!

In comparing the track.ini files from SP and WG, the asphalt grip
level is only .05 lower at SP. I realize there are evelation changes
here that will make the car lose traction and feel lighter at certain
points. But even on the flat surfaces, it's really bad.

I've never driven a cup car on a road course, so I can't translate
this to real life. But I have to think that Papy missed the boat on
the tire adhesion here.

                  Tim Wortman
      North American Simulation Series
               www.nasscar.com

Dan Belch

Sears Point - grip (or lack thereof)

by Dan Belch » Sun, 26 May 2002 16:51:47

The grip feels right to me.  There's several things that could cause this
difference for you:

1) Weather.  If it's colder, you're going to slide around more.
2) Setup.  Sears Point requires a softer setup, so maybe the car bouncing
around on its suspension makes it feel slippery.
3) Driving style.  Maybe it's just you.  :)

-----------------------------------------
Dan Belcher
Webmaster,
http://www.gplworld.racesim.net/simcrash

Joachim Trens

Sears Point - grip (or lack thereof)

by Joachim Trens » Sun, 26 May 2002 21:53:07

Grip at Sears seems right to me, I am convinced there's nothing wrong with
that.

But your problem could be the ambient temps. At 'normal' temps between 70o
and 96o, and winds between 0 and 12mph, I'm usually doing low 1:17's to high
1:16's both online and offline.

But if a host sets temps below 60o, Sears becomes logarithmically more
difficult to drive for me. Especially the rear end of the car becomes a
challenge.

If it's not that, I think it's really either the setup (although I do 1:17's
on a regular basis with the default <fixed> setup online) or your driving.
If you'd like to try my setup, you can download it here:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/joachim_trensz/

You'll also find replays there, I don't know if you'd find that helpful, but
they're there if you'd like to watch them. If it's your driving, I'd suggest
(honestly without wanting to be a wisecrack or to sound patronizing) that
letting the ball roll is better than fighting too hard at Sears.

I am under the impression that there are loads of camber changes at Sears,
plus all the little hillcrests where the car becomes light. Taking those
smoothly helps laptimes a lot.

Achim


Barne

Sears Point - grip (or lack thereof)

by Barne » Sun, 26 May 2002 22:35:39

Try drive it in N4....then complain about NR2002


> Grip at Sears seems right to me, I am convinced there's nothing wrong with
> that.

> But your problem could be the ambient temps. At 'normal' temps between 70o
> and 96o, and winds between 0 and 12mph, I'm usually doing low 1:17's to
high
> 1:16's both online and offline.

> But if a host sets temps below 60o, Sears becomes logarithmically more
> difficult to drive for me. Especially the rear end of the car becomes a
> challenge.

> If it's not that, I think it's really either the setup (although I do
1:17's
> on a regular basis with the default <fixed> setup online) or your driving.
> If you'd like to try my setup, you can download it here:

> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/joachim_trensz/

> You'll also find replays there, I don't know if you'd find that helpful,
but
> they're there if you'd like to watch them. If it's your driving, I'd
suggest
> (honestly without wanting to be a wisecrack or to sound patronizing) that
> letting the ball roll is better than fighting too hard at Sears.

> I am under the impression that there are loads of camber changes at Sears,
> plus all the little hillcrests where the car becomes light. Taking those
> smoothly helps laptimes a lot.

> Achim



> > Our league is about a month away from running SP in N2002, and I can't
> > believe I haven't seen more posts about the lack of grip at this
> > track. It's like driving on ice!

> > In comparing the track.ini files from SP and WG, the asphalt grip
> > level is only .05 lower at SP. I realize there are evelation changes
> > here that will make the car lose traction and feel lighter at certain
> > points. But even on the flat surfaces, it's really bad.

> > I've never driven a cup car on a road course, so I can't translate
> > this to real life. But I have to think that Papy missed the boat on
> > the tire adhesion here.

> >                   Tim Wortman
> >       North American Simulation Series
> >                www.nasscar.com

Tim

Sears Point - grip (or lack thereof)

by Tim » Mon, 27 May 2002 14:16:37



Been there.....done that....many times. If I could have the feel of
how the car drives from SP N4 into the graphics of N2002, I'd be a
happy camper.

                  Tim Wortman
      North American Simulation Series
               www.nasscar.com

Tim

Sears Point - grip (or lack thereof)

by Tim » Mon, 27 May 2002 14:29:35

Thanks Achim. I took your advice and downloaded setups from yours and
a couple other sites. I must admit that up to now, all my tests have
been ran with the default setups (not the fastest, but usually pretty
stable default setups for the road circuits in previous Nascar
releases). They did help to stabalize the car a bit, but not to the
point that I feel comfortable as I did with N4.

I really don't feel my driving is to blame. While I'm not the fastest
guy on the ovals, I consider myself an accomplished road racer with
the stock cars. In fact, I'm really shocked that others didn't chime
in with the same opinion of the grip levels here. And, I have to
believe that if a WC driver sat down at my computer and TSW wheel and
tried to run this track, they'de have the same opinion.

Still baffled....

On Sat, 25 May 2002 12:53:07 -0000, "Joachim Trensz"


>Grip at Sears seems right to me, I am convinced there's nothing wrong with
>that.

>But your problem could be the ambient temps. At 'normal' temps between 70o
>and 96o, and winds between 0 and 12mph, I'm usually doing low 1:17's to high
>1:16's both online and offline.

>But if a host sets temps below 60o, Sears becomes logarithmically more
>difficult to drive for me. Especially the rear end of the car becomes a
>challenge.

>If it's not that, I think it's really either the setup (although I do 1:17's
>on a regular basis with the default <fixed> setup online) or your driving.
>If you'd like to try my setup, you can download it here:

>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/joachim_trensz/

>You'll also find replays there, I don't know if you'd find that helpful, but
>they're there if you'd like to watch them. If it's your driving, I'd suggest
>(honestly without wanting to be a wisecrack or to sound patronizing) that
>letting the ball roll is better than fighting too hard at Sears.

>I am under the impression that there are loads of camber changes at Sears,
>plus all the little hillcrests where the car becomes light. Taking those
>smoothly helps laptimes a lot.

>Achim



>> Our league is about a month away from running SP in N2002, and I can't
>> believe I haven't seen more posts about the lack of grip at this
>> track. It's like driving on ice!

>> In comparing the track.ini files from SP and WG, the asphalt grip
>> level is only .05 lower at SP. I realize there are evelation changes
>> here that will make the car lose traction and feel lighter at certain
>> points. But even on the flat surfaces, it's really bad.

>> I've never driven a cup car on a road course, so I can't translate
>> this to real life. But I have to think that Papy missed the boat on
>> the tire adhesion here.

>>                   Tim Wortman
>>       North American Simulation Series
>>                www.nasscar.com

                  Tim Wortman
      North American Simulation Series
               www.nasscar.com
LoneRegiste

Sears Point - grip (or lack thereof)

by LoneRegiste » Mon, 27 May 2002 15:34:14

Remember,

On a road course, you are not able to "stack" that car for the right hand
turning.  You have to balance it for left and right turns.  And with SP, you
have lots of ups and downs which dramatically effect the way the car
"feels".

:)


> Thanks Achim. I took your advice and downloaded setups from yours and
> a couple other sites. I must admit that up to now, all my tests have
> been ran with the default setups (not the fastest, but usually pretty
> stable default setups for the road circuits in previous Nascar
> releases). They did help to stabalize the car a bit, but not to the
> point that I feel comfortable as I did with N4.

> I really don't feel my driving is to blame. While I'm not the fastest
> guy on the ovals, I consider myself an accomplished road racer with
> the stock cars. In fact, I'm really shocked that others didn't chime
> in with the same opinion of the grip levels here. And, I have to
> believe that if a WC driver sat down at my computer and TSW wheel and
> tried to run this track, they'de have the same opinion.

> Still baffled....

> On Sat, 25 May 2002 12:53:07 -0000, "Joachim Trensz"

> >Grip at Sears seems right to me, I am convinced there's nothing wrong
with
> >that.

> >But your problem could be the ambient temps. At 'normal' temps between
70o
> >and 96o, and winds between 0 and 12mph, I'm usually doing low 1:17's to
high
> >1:16's both online and offline.

> >But if a host sets temps below 60o, Sears becomes logarithmically more
> >difficult to drive for me. Especially the rear end of the car becomes a
> >challenge.

> >If it's not that, I think it's really either the setup (although I do
1:17's
> >on a regular basis with the default <fixed> setup online) or your
driving.
> >If you'd like to try my setup, you can download it here:

> >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/joachim_trensz/

> >You'll also find replays there, I don't know if you'd find that helpful,
but
> >they're there if you'd like to watch them. If it's your driving, I'd
suggest
> >(honestly without wanting to be a wisecrack or to sound patronizing) that
> >letting the ball roll is better than fighting too hard at Sears.

> >I am under the impression that there are loads of camber changes at
Sears,
> >plus all the little hillcrests where the car becomes light. Taking those
> >smoothly helps laptimes a lot.

> >Achim



> >> Our league is about a month away from running SP in N2002, and I can't
> >> believe I haven't seen more posts about the lack of grip at this
> >> track. It's like driving on ice!

> >> In comparing the track.ini files from SP and WG, the asphalt grip
> >> level is only .05 lower at SP. I realize there are evelation changes
> >> here that will make the car lose traction and feel lighter at certain
> >> points. But even on the flat surfaces, it's really bad.

> >> I've never driven a cup car on a road course, so I can't translate
> >> this to real life. But I have to think that Papy missed the boat on
> >> the tire adhesion here.

> >>                   Tim Wortman
> >>       North American Simulation Series
> >>                www.nasscar.com

>                   Tim Wortman
>       North American Simulation Series
>                www.nasscar.com

Goy Larse

Sears Point - grip (or lack thereof)

by Goy Larse » Mon, 27 May 2002 18:46:28


> Thanks Achim. I took your advice and downloaded setups from yours and
> a couple other sites. I must admit that up to now, all my tests have
> been ran with the default setups (not the fastest, but usually pretty
> stable default setups for the road circuits in previous Nascar
> releases). They did help to stabalize the car a bit, but not to the
> point that I feel comfortable as I did with N4.

> I really don't feel my driving is to blame. While I'm not the fastest
> guy on the ovals, I consider myself an accomplished road racer with
> the stock cars. In fact, I'm really shocked that others didn't chime
> in with the same opinion of the grip levels here. And, I have to
> believe that if a WC driver sat down at my computer and TSW wheel and
> tried to run this track, they'de have the same opinion.

> Still baffled....

I ran SP for the first time in a somewhat competitive mode last night,
and I didn't really notice a lack of grip as such using the default FAST
setup

What I did notice though was the lack of a decent track to race on, we
were going to do a quick 10 lapper for fun, but fired up Bristol instead
and had a blast, and I don't even like Bristol :-)

I can't believe what they've done to this track, it used to be one of my
fav tracks, I'm not going back there anytime soon

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

Joachim Trens

Sears Point - grip (or lack thereof)

by Joachim Trens » Mon, 27 May 2002 22:40:38

Hi Tim,

I'm just guessing here, but with all the speed changes, could N2002's highly
increased sensitivity to throttle input (rear wheels losing traction easier,
and in a more detailed way both longitudinally and laterally) be the issue
you're seeing?

Reducing rear springs or bump shocks would make the throttle a bit less
'sensitive' if you perceive the rear end as being particularly different
from N4. But you know that, of course.

I wonder, since no one else shares your impressions, could there be a
hardware or adjustment prob with your controller perhaps? I, for example,
had to change the linearity settings _substantially_ from N4 (running it on
0% now, i.e. fully linear, as opposed to somewhere around 50% in N4, if I
remember correctly).

Achim



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