rec.autos.simulators

Hi;

I'm looking for MS Cart Precision racing.  Am willing to handle shipping if
it is sold at a reasonable price .
Also willing to trade another game for same.  name it, I may have it!

Contact John at

--

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"If you aren't smart enough to know how to use a turn signal, then you are
too stupid to drive. We don't really care WHERE you are going, we just want
to know WHEN!"

58 BMW R50
97 FXD
97 Sportster 1200 Custom
98 Victory V92C (On order)
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    Have fun, all the best, Mike

--
Michael S. Davis
Creative Media-Works
Computer/Audio/Video Convergence
"from Creative minds spring Creative solutions."
http://www.creativemedia-works.com

I have a very strong feeling that the top GPL drivers will be many of the
top CPR drivers. The person with the fastest GPL lap right now has been one
of the very best CPR drivers since it was released. I guess it didn't ruin
his sim skills, huh? I was able to get down to the 1:07's on the GPL demo
within a handful of hours. CPR is the sim I've spent the most time with. Of
these 4 sims (I like them all) that I've been driving over the last 8
months, F1RS was the least challenging for me, and GPL was easier than CPR
and even MTM2. There are many CPR drivers who are amazingly fast and
talented and will be at the top of any ladder or leagues that are started
after GPL is released. I wonder how they got that way by driving a coffee
coaster sim?

 I get some really good laughs (thanks) from the way people defend their
favorite sims on r.a.s. and rip into others. I think I finally figured out
why that happens. After reading a recent thread (and similiar ones in the
past) about sim racers and whether or not they could also drive real race
cars successfully, and listening to many say they could, it looks like
people here actually believe they have the talent to race against
Schumacher. They get good at their favorite sim, convince themselves that
they could do as well in real life, and then rip others who prefer a
different sim because then their abilities are being questioned. Lighten up,
the difference between you (and me) and Alex Zanardi is as big as the
difference between the images of some geek sitting in front of their
computer and Alex REALLY driving 230mph next to the wall at Fontana. Worlds
apart. If anyone on r.a.s. has the balls to walk up to a F1 or Champ car
driver and tell them you would make a good race car driver because you sit
on your ass racing sims in your den, do me a favor and video tape the
moment. I usually laugh at most things in life, but on the rare occasion
when I'm feeling a little down, I'll just pop in that tape and get a smile
back on my face in seconds.

Dave
(DmndDave)

David,

i've never been a big fan of CPR, but I do play it every now and then, and
I'll admit it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I have a feeling
if Microsoft wasn't the distributor, and it was just CPR by TRI, it would
have had a better chance. Anyway, the points you make about people driving
the sim in their den and actually believing they can drive a real F1 or CART
car and keep up with Zanardi/Schumacher, or hell, even Katayama or any
backmarker are dead on accurate! I love racing sims. I love watching F1 on
tv. I began racing my 300ZX this year with two clubs. They don't compare.
Not one bit. The first time I drove my car in competition I was so damn
nervous, I was shaking. And this is only "fun" competition, not a series
where alot of money is involved, only trophies. I've driven over 170mph in
the deserts of California in the past in a car that felt rock-solid stable
at that speed. Was I shitting my pants? Just about. And it wasn't because I
was worried about cops....170mph is pretty damn fast. Take your average sim
driver, they've probably never seen 100mph on the road, and the few that
have, I can almost guarantee they've never seen over 140. When they did see
this speed, whatever speed it was, they did it for a brief second, and then
braked back to 70mph or so. Imagine driving that speed for an hour or two,
then throw in 25 other guys right next to you trying to pass you. 99% of sim
drivers would ***up in those conditions, and I may be one of those 99%.
I'm working on being that 1%, though. Real life experience is the ONLY thing
that can get you in that 1%. So no matter how much simmers think they know
about how "realistic" a sim is, the only baseline they can measure it
against is how much better it is compared to last years sim. On occasion,
Jacques Villeneuve will admit he drove GP2 or F1RS to learn a track, but
that doesn't make that sim authentic and by driving it, you don't become the
same as Jacques Villeneuve. A sim is just that. A sim. You can have a Pizza
simulator on your computer screen, it looks like pepperoni with extra
cheese, and it's a damn good sim. But nothing compares to the real thing
delivered to your door with MGD Light in the fridge. Enough rambling, bring
on the flamage.

Craig Marcho

--

UK.

I'll swipe a quote that Senna swiped from one of his early instructors. "Have you ever gone in to a corner so hot that you knew you had gone to far? You knew you were going to crash? Then somehow, miraculously, you made it. Well, that is fast."

That is the truth. Imagine that there are 20 intelligent, naturally talented, seasoned karters all concerning themselves with a certain 3/4 mile stretch of pavement. The time to beat is 46 seconds. They have been coming back year after year and all know the track very well. They have been racing for years so their karts are perfect. The karts accelerate at about 1G and corner near 2G's. These guys have it down pat. To say that these guys drive at the limit, the whole way around the track is the absolute truth. There is no way to go any faster today than they will go. Your kart surely won't. For the twelve laps of the race they are all going as fast as any human can make a kart go. On every inch of track they are pushing 100%.

Now you are in the middle. Can you keep your position? How on earth are you supposed to pass a guy who's already at the limit? It is a pressure cooker kids. It is as hard as anything this life has to offer. I know. I've been in that cooker. Nothing about it is anything less than extreme.  It's all or nothing and you'd better give it all because to lapse to 98% can be catastrophic.

Now, sims and real life may be completely different physically, but I wouldn't call it a sim if it's not as hard as real life. A good racing sim, and we've had a few, delivers the spirit of racing. Preparation, perfection, perspiration. (Or some such silly equation with such a complex activity.)

--

mark
"A lot of people think racing is about going fast. But it's not. It's about going just slow enough to stay on the track."

F1RS - http://www.nmia.com/~chaser/car/results.htm
Remove us here and there to mail me.

    David,

    i've never been a big fan of CPR, but I do play it every now and then, and
    I'll admit it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I have a feeling
    if Microsoft wasn't the distributor, and it was just CPR by TRI, it would
    have had a better chance. Anyway, the points you make about people driving
    the sim in their den and actually believing they can drive a real F1 or CART
    car and keep up with Zanardi/Schumacher, or hell, even Katayama or any
    backmarker are dead on accurate! I love racing sims. I love watching F1 on
    tv. I began racing my 300ZX this year with two clubs.

to sim drivers snipped ) ... <<

Hi Dave,

Yes the images of the two types of drivers are very different. And I'd have
to say that your general view may be somewhat correct - but who can ever
tell ? Maybe some of the armchair drivers would be reasonable if they had
half a chance.

I just point out for what its worth that on several occasions now I've seen
real racing drivers from various formulas interviewed about computer racing
sims. Every time they comment that the sims are much harder to drive than
real cars due to the lack of feedback etc. Of course the two disciplines
have so many differences between them its virtually impossible to compare
them meaningful, but I think its noteworthy what some real racers have had
to say about the comparison.

Best Regards

Phillip McNelley