rec.autos.simulators

I've always driven racing games with a joystick because I had a good
joystick already and it seemed to work fine.  That joystick (a CH Products
Combatstick) is finally getting a bit dodgy now and I'm considering
replacing it with a wheel.  I've heard people mention all kinds of wheels
here (the MOMO seems to come up most often), but I'd appreciate advice.  I
don't "think" I care much about force feedback, but never having used it
before, I could be persuaded that I'm wrong on that point.  I'd prefer to
keep the price below $80US.

I just posted in another message that Amazon.com seems to have N2003 for
$9.99 after rebate now and if I buy that together with the MS Sidewinder FF
wheel (which also has a rebate), the combined price comes to about $72 after
savings, including shipping.  Is this a deal worth considering?  What other
wheels should I be considering?  In decreasing order of frequency, I drive
GPL, Rally Trophy, Rally Masters, F1 2002, GT 2002, N2002, Mobil1 RC, Nascar
Heat, Viper Racing ....and maybe soon N2003.

Thank you for your suggestions,
Itazura

I play some of the same games (GPL, F12K2 and mods) and just recently went
through a forced upgrade from a Microsoft FF to a MOMO (the fact that MS
won't release drivers for their own hardware under XP was the root of this
change).

I have always been happy with the MS wheel, but the Logitech is certainly
better. Very comfortable to use, feels great, nicely accessible buttons, and
a number of "little" features that are well thought out (for example, the MS
wheel was "on" all the time, but the Logitech turns itself off when there is
no signal on the USB because the system is powered down).

With regards to FF - it is true that some games use it as a gimmick. For
example, there are some games that use the same generic bump for hitting a
guardrail, mounting a curb and collecting another car. But there are a few
well designed games where you can feel what the car is doing through the
wheel, and GPL is one of the best examples IMHO. The difference when using
it is awesome, and you CAN tell what the car is doing through the feedback
you get. F12K2 is not bad either (as long as you reverse the force feedback
in the configuration - EA got it the wrong way around!!!)

I would suggest that the MS is a good wheel, but the Logitech is better. The
logitech is probably the best you can get in the price range (you can ALWAYS
buy something better if you have the money... :-)

Muzza

Thanks for that detailed reply.  You're certainly right about there always
being something better out there if only you're willing to pay up!

You may as well get a FF wheel.  The Momo is the best one I've tried,
and feeling the momentum of the car shift as you run through bends, or
lock brakes, or ride over crests of hills is cool, frankly.

GPL, N2002, F12002, GT2002 and RT all have feedback which is tied into
the physics model, so you can feel what the car is doing (after hours
of tweaking and testing to get it perfect, in the case of all the
games).

I remember those silly canned effects when it used to be tied to sound
events or whenever I'm unfortunate enough to be dragged into playing
on a PS2.  Didn't really add much to the experience.  Things are much
better now.

Many believe you will be ultimately faster with a non-FF wheel, but if
you want to really immerse yourself in the experience, go with FF.

Never having used a wheel before, I've been wondering about a couple points.
Where are the buttons/paddles/whatever located for shifting and do you not
find it awkward to try to get at them while spinning the wheel this way and
that?  And also, will I be able to try split axis acceleration/braking with
any wheel/pedal combo, or is that possible only with certain wheels?  The
ability to play around with left-foot braking for the first time in GPL is
one motivation for replacing the joystick.

Thanks again....

I would agree with everything that has been said about the Momo.  I have a
Momo Racing and love it.  I should say i love it now.  Dialing it in to my
own liking took the better part of an afternoon.  Doing a google search on
this newsgroup for "FF settings" and "momo settings" will turn up several
discussions about dialing in your wheel, what all the settings do, and how
different settings effect the FF.

When I first got it i was very unimpressed, but once i messed around with all
the settings and got it to my liking in each game (N2002 and GPL), I really
like it.  As everyone else has said, you can really tell from the wheel what
the car is doing/trying to do.

hth,
jeff

Thanks for the replies.  I can see that the MOMO is much more popular than
the MS Wheel, but I went with the MSFF as it was on sale for $40 at
Amazon.com (see my post in the thread about 9.99 N2003).  Cheap enough to
put up with for a few months even if I ultimately go to something else!

I actually have both - the original Momo and the MSFF usb version. Right
now, I prefer the MS wheel due to the greater pedal travel.

--
Don Burnette

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Both the MS and Logitech support split axes...

No probs reaching the buttons (because the wheel only turns so far your
hands generally stay in the same place - unlike a car where you NEED to
shift your hands).

Both the MS and Logitech support split axes...

No probs reaching the buttons (because the wheel only turns so far your
hands generally stay in the same place - unlike a car where you NEED to
shift your hands).