rec.autos.simulators

Hope you don't mind me posting this here.....since the RSC SCC site/server
is down....and has been for a couple of days now:

Specific to the LeMans track(s) RSDG made for the SCC mod.......is the
Bugatti 2003 LeMans track what they run for the 24-hours race?  If
"yes"....has there been any updates/patches to bring the signage and course
markings up to spec for what the 2004 LeMans 24-Hours race has/had?

It looks as though the Flying Lizards team is going to hire us to build them
a GT3-RSR Porsche simulator that they will use to train their drivers to run
LeMans (this year).  That means I will probably do a "track graphics
realism" patch for the LeMans track in SCC.  If this happens, I will post it
for everyone to download......as I think my previous "track graphics
patches" for Papy's NASCAR xx series tracks have gained some notoriety over
the years.

I will obviously also need the 2004 Porsche GT3-RSR car model and
physics....but I'm hoping that is in their upcoming patch for SCC?  If
someone from RSDG needs help with anything for the Porsche GT3-RSR car
(photos of***pit, measurements, information from the car engineers), I'd
be happy to get it for them as we are located next door to Flying Lizards
Motorsports at Infineon Raceway.

Regards,

Tom Pabst

Bugatti is not the 24 hour course.  Bugatti is a much shorter course where (I
think) they run a 1000K race.

SSM has 4 versions of the track...day, dusk, nite and dawn, which is the one I
use.  There was a version NR03 that was supposed to be very good, but it was
not converted to SCC (even though I think someone had recd permission) due to
the amount of work involved.  If memory serves (don't count on it) there is an
updated (day only?) version for SCC (RSDG 1.0???) check here:
http://www.pumams.com/download/tracksdownload.asp

Hope this helps a bit.....

Kevin (aka tlgtr)
****
Zip slowly, medical statistics show that over 100,000 people are injured
annually by their clothing.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to use rFactor for this project? You would even
be able to run the race in real time with track/lighting conditions
conditions changing over the 24 hour race.

--
David G Fisher

Hi guys, nice to hear from you.....since it's been a few months....maybe way
longer than that?  We are so busy here at PR.com.......months seem like days
to me.

Kevin:  I did download the RSDG 1.0 LeMans from that actual site.  But, it
contains something like 5 versions of the LeMans track....thus my question:
Which one is the 24-Hours run on?  I have never run that track and haven't
been to LeMans either (though I suspect I'm going this year with the FL
guys).

rFactor....SSM?  Those are new to me.  I have no idea who/what they
are.......but I'm not nearly as plugged in to the online sim racing
community these days as I once was.  So, perhaps I simply missed this new
development?  If somebody could enlighten me in a few paragraphs, I'd really
appreciate it.

The primary need for the FL project is one car, one track (the correct
LeMans track) with the best car physics and best track configuration/mapping
and visuals......as possible.  That's all that is needed for the driver
coaching necessary for their driver team to learn the track before going
over to France.  However, I did discuss the possibility with both team
principals.....of holding a mock 24-hour race using two simulators.....both
driver teams, car chiefs and crew chiefs.....racing against AI
competitors.....for 24 hours.  They would do this in our race shop, in our
sim demo room above our workshop.  In fact, the principals said they'd
probably do three or four of these mock races.......on three consecutive
weekends (Saturday, noon starts).  I told them that this was dependent on
finding or having time to create........accurate AI teams and cars.....and a
track whose light conditions would follow the real-time clock.  I had heard
this was being worked on months and months ago....but did not know the
status of it.  They are eager to find out if this is possible.  We do have a
T1 Internet connection at our shop.  So, I suppose it's feasible that even
other online humans could participate in this mock 24-hour race.  That would
really be interesting....and add an even deeper level of realism since the
other human drivers would add a "human factor" making the events and
happenings of the race even more realistic.  How cool would that really be?
I'd be total psyched if that could be pulled off!

Of course, this would be awesome for the sim racing community mod makers
too, since a ton of real-time data and feedback would come from this.  All
information would be equally shared.....both directions......with the sim
community and the FL simulators/team.  We've actually been working privately
with two of their four drivers already.  One of them is new to the team this
year and this is not yet public knowledge, so I'm prevented from telling you
his name at this time.  I can tell you his name is well known (here in the
USA), and that he won a major series championship last year.  Not too hard
to figure out who it might be......that limits the candidates
considerably...LOL.....

If.....and I am only speculating.......if information about this rFactor or
SSM sports car project is not publicly available.....but the principals want
to get in touch with us, I hope they will be comfortable with emailing me
directly (through this r.a.s. post return email address).  I have
temporarily removed the "no spam" interlineation in the address so there's
no problem with email getting through.

Good to hear from you guys.......thanks for the input and information.

Regards,

Tom

   Rfactor has no firm release date yet.   The RSDG track contains two
circuits.  Bugatti is the shorter track and yes, it was used for the
first 1000k LMES race in the fall of 03.  The Bugatti track also hosts a
24hr Motorcycle race amoung other events I'm sure.  
  THe longer circuit, often called Le Sarthe is the big one that is used
every year for the 24 hrs of Le Mans.  If you choose 5 percent race
distance, about 20 laps for the RSDG track, you will cycle through the
entire day, dusk, night, dawn, day changes.  There is one .plr file edit
you have to make tho for this to work.  

   There is also a very very very good version of Le MAns for Nr2k3.  I
would think the 330 mod  might closest approximate the Porche speeds.  
But again, that is NOT gonna give you the 'Simulator' experience. And
excepting that there is a day version and a night version, you get no
'time of day' cycling.
   RSDG is probably done with artwork and such with their patch, they
most likely are tweeking vehicle performance and testing at this point.  
I know they planned to release a carpack after or with the patch(rumour
is near Christmas) but I doubt it will focus on cars they have already
produced in the original mod(read that as...Lamboghinni yes...another
Porche, doubtful)

     I had about 30 cars from SCC geared and tweeked so that the AI
controlled cars  ran very close to actual lap times at Le Mans in 2003.  
Just about all the classes were quicker in 2004.  (and even pitted for
fuel when they were supposed to<all except the Judd engined cars that
is.>)  But that was mainly focused on the LMP and GTS's...the GT class
was already slow enough I thought..

   You can run 50 cars at the RSDG track, but they always seem to stack 2
cars in one pit...which causes some AI confusion.   The pace of the
original SCC mod would probably be on par with 2004(except for the fuel
consumption.  The original cars had a poorly sorted fuel use estimation,
the result was that many cars ran out of fuel.

   And the standing start that comes with SCC causes plenty of damage as
the cars get underway.  RSDG heavily stregthened the wings and bumpers so
that many cars are not eliminated before turn one, but that feature is
also part of the patch.  It's not hard to fix...just more text editing.

   I doubt that anyone has fully current signage...again, the NR2k3 Le
Mans is probably closer to real than the RSDG version.  But either will
get the drivers at least familiar with the layout.

dave henrie

Kevin (aka tlgtr)
****
Zip slowly, medical statistics show that over 100,000 people are injured
annually by their clothing.

rFactor is the coming release from ISI, (F1C) and uses their latest game
engine. Here is the web site http://www.rfactor.net/ (definitely read the Q
and A sections) and there is a multiplayer test demo you can download. The
demo is for testing and improving the multiplayer and doesn't have the final
physics, graphics, damage model, or sound, but it's still pretty amazing. I
and many others believe it will be the best sim yet when it's released. It's
main feature is that it's a sim specifically designed for the mod community.
Those who previously were making mods using F1C will switch to rFactor. ISI
have allowed some mod teams to begin work on mods already.

Here's the forum at RSC http://forum.rscnet.org/forumdisplay.php?f=799 where
you can probably get the answers to your questions about the track/car you
are looking for. I know there will be a LeMans mod made for rFactor.

configuration/mapping

I'm 100% positive you will be able to do this with rFactor. In the full
version of rFactor, the tracks light conditions can actually follow the
real-time clock over a 24 hour period. Track lights will also turn on/off
automatically (you turn on/off car lights). The demo lets you see an eight
hour change (you can accelerate the time and it's stunning--shadows/track
surface lighting make it difficult to see braking points, etc.). For you it
will just depend on when the car and track is available. I would guess it
wouldn't be too long after the game is released in February. There was an
announcement of a LeMans mod for rFactor at the RSC rFactor forum just the
other day. Again, when the RSC forums are up and running again (been down
for 24 hours), post your questions at the link I provided and I'm sure
you'll get all the info you need. The developers have been there answering
questions too. The demo came out a few weeks ago and things have gone a bit
quiet by now, but it's still active.

Could I run in the mock race? :-)

--
David G Fisher

It would seem to me that GTR would be the sim to use for this project.  The
physics are far beyond anything out right now and they have many GT3's
modled now.  You would only need to convert the track over.  The models are
done and are great.  The physics are great.

Chad

I have only driven the GTR demo, but would have to say that I was impressed
by the car physics as well as the overall mod itself.

However, I live in the US and haven't (as yet) been able to get a copy of
GTR - full version.  I also don't know about converting tracks, and the
teams GTR contains are not relevant to LeMans or the ALMS series (and my
customer is).  Not that this is entirely required, but it would be "nice to
have" and the SCC mod does do that.  I also can't say for certain, that the
SCC mod is substantially less......in terms of car physics.  But that is a
judgment I reserve final status of.....when the new SCC patch is released.

And finally, I'm not certain the GTR Porsches and the ALMS Porsches are
identical cars.  Are the GTR Porsches GT3-RSR Porsches in the GTR mod?  That
is the Porsche I need modeled and car physics adapted to.....running on
Michelin tires.

So Chad, there's lots of unanswered questions as of the moment, regarding my
use of the GTR mod for F1C.  But thank you for reminding me to put the GTR
mod on my list of "possibilities" for this project.

Regards,

Tom

I have the full version of GTR ordered from Germany and I can tell you that
the physics are unreal.  I don't know the specifics about what type of GT3's
there are, but none of the cars in the game use Michelin tires.  The GT3's
use Dunlop or Pirelli.  There have been tracks converted from the f1c game,
but they have nowhere near the detail level of the GTR tracks.  Without
working for Simbin myself I couldn't give them a stronger endor***t, it is
a fantastic sim.  As for the GT3's, they are a kick to drive and not at all
easy :)

Chad

--
Chad Rogers
Hospital Account Manager
P&G Pharmaceuticals
(206)368-3582
(206)963-2036 cell

Tom,

Here is a link to the cars of GTR from the main site.  Hope it helps.

Chad

    hey Tom,  check out the January Car and Driver(Ithink that was the
mag...GTO vs Mustang on the cover)  You have competition.  3 screens a
bunch of acutators...supposedly lemans onscreen,  I suspect they are using
the  lemans 2k2 mod by SSM since it has the Spyker they mention in the
article.  However, the screenshot looks more like an openwheel/open***pit
car.  

dave henrie

The Porsche 996 in GTR is the GT3-RS model:

See:

http://www.gtr-game.com/images/cars/porsche_996.swf

Alan.

This is totally lame that I have taken so long to come back to this string
and thank you (and everyone) for all the information you gave me.  It was
all hugely helpful but your stuff, Dave.......is always spot on the money!
I don't know why I just don't email you directly when I need to know
anything about sim racing, sim racing software/mods and websites.  You know
it all......and you are always here in r.a.s. to help me out.

I don't know how often someone says, "thank you" to you Dave.  But over the
years you have helped me out a zillion times and zillion more have you
helped others.  The sim community owes you a huge "thank you" for all you've
done for sim racing here on r.a.s.!

Thanks a ton, Dave......for the zillionth time you've helped me!  You'd get
my vote for "Sim Racing's Man Of the Year" award!

Regards,

Tom