rec.autos.simulators

I just got banned from RaceSimCentral for releasing our own work, after
someone else (higher up at RSC) altered our files without permission.

When I protested against that, there was no response from the guy in
question, Paul Skingley, who obviously thinks by now he's a Mod God or
something, who can mess with whatever he wants and no matter who made it.

So in response, I released our original unaltered files on the Internet,
since I didn't want to see our two years of tuning work messed with, or
go unused.

Skingley then notified the 'authorities'  at RSC for doing an
"unauthorised release" (even if it was OUR work to begin with)... and
got me banned.

It's so unreasonable it's almost funny  ;)

(The files were based on GPL though, in all fairness, since it was a mod
in the first place.)

Read on if you want to hear the whole messy story
(seen from my viewpoint, of course - I did get angry in the course of
all this, which didn't make me popular, but I guess it can at least be
understood) :

Earlier this evening I posted the "F2 MiniMod" on the Internet. Our team
of Gilles Maltais, Michel 'Needforspeed' Vignieres and me worked on an
F2 replacement for GPL for about two years.
(This was meant as a replacement for GPL's Advanced Trainer, which is
supposed to resemble 1967 F2, but has way too high top speeds and not
enough grip.)

When the first rough working version was put together, our team
basically fell apart thru disuse - early 2007, I was the only one
basically working on it anymore, now and then.
But I couldn't quite improve it any further it on my own, so I asked
Skingly if he could make it work with the GEM launcher and maybe improve
it further. I handed him all we had of our files.
After a while, last month some people did join up and it looked like the
GPL F2 Mod would be restarted.

Due to work I couldn't have a look at what had been done for about a
week, and when I did, I found that a lot of our physics had been altered
or even completely replaced. The engines, the top speeds, a lot of it
wasn't working like we made it any more.  Not that our specs were
pinch-perfect, but this was a lot further off.

Needless to say this also almost obliterated what we did on the original
f2.exe, which apart from bottom-end engine pickup got fairly close as an
approximation of 67 Formula 2 on-track. Now just about all accuracy
which we aimed for during many long months of testing was gone.

Since we had neither been asked for permission or been notified of this,
I protested. I let it know that although I wasn't opposed to further
improvements, I did want our work to be the starting point for further
test versions of the mod at least, not Skingley's uncalled-for altered
version.

Secondly, I didn't like the way Skingley had messed with the files
without asking permission or even letting us know about it - even if he
always talked on RSC about respecting author's wishes.

By that time, Skingley had managed to get my co-author Michel
'Needforspeed' Vignieres on board, which was fine with me of course,
especially since he basically said he supported me on this issue by
email several times.  (Our third team member Gilles at that time was
still MIA.)

To my dismay, Skingley basically refused to alter the files back. His
alterations did give better bottom-end engine pickup (which is probably
why he did this in the first place, but without looking at the
consequences for the rest of the physics). But they messed with just
about all the data we'd painstakingly worked on for the past years. It
would mean an almost complete restart to get going with this 'bastard
version' and nearly all the tuning work we'd done would be lost.

The cars had been extensively tuned on-track in terms of top speed and
grip down to the last 1 kph top speed relative to each other, so I was
not happy to see things messed with in this way.

Again I asked that our work be reinstated for the first real beta
version at least. No response.
I asked a second, third and fourth time. Ditto.

So then I let it know that I'd walk away from the project, since there
was no basis of trust to work on it further - not like this, anyway.

If he wouldn't get me a proper response by yesterday, I'd go back to
Plan A and post our files on the Internet 'as-is'.
(Again note it was *based* on other people's work since it was derived
from GPL of course, but the F2 physics development work we basically did
from the ground up, for each car.)
I also told the members of the private subforum we were on that I
wouldn't blab about the conflict publically unless I was provoked into
doing so.

I'm not a raving lunatic who's always out for an online fight, but do
object strongly when I get the feeling of being messed with - and from
where I was standing, even if Skingley didn't mean all bad, his way of
handling this has been pretty appalling, and it got worse and worse
since he would not admit he didn't handle this well (to say the very least).

Again I objected, to RSC authorities as well - who, since Skingly did
co-author several GPL mods, (even though he's neither the main physics
or main 3D modeler guy) he's obviously pretty chummy with.

Well, basically, Skingley c.s. today got my teammate Michel to turn
sides (who wanted to stay friends with everybody involved, but didn't
exactly show a lot of backbone through all this mess - and he sure
wasn't the guy who spend weeks of laborious physics testing on the mod).
As he was convinced to change his stance on this, they now suddenly
labeled my releasing our own work an 'unauthorized release' (even if
there's no such thing as a GPL authority to begin with) - and got me
banned, even though this was basically our mod and I had been left the
only one still working on it.

So this evening I suddenly found myself instabanned after releasing our
own work, after someone else had messed with it without permission or
notification.
(I'm crying now - I just caaaannnn't live my life without RSC! ..not).

Ironic, isn't it? I always thought these 'Banned from RSC' stories were
somewhat exaggerated (since there's always conflicts somewhere), but I
guess in some respects this one takes the cake.  ;)

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank: -32)

I banned RSC. :-)  Although I do respect a lot of the people
posting/supervising there, I don't like the structure of it. The
problem is that moderators are fan of the game they're moderating.

If people praise the game they're welcome, even if the praise is not
justified, but critics are often flamed, even if they're right.
(Follow the NKPro section to see what i mean)

Ah well, there always is RAS.... :-)

Cheers!

Remco

Don't ask about the 'ring,
-Esben :P

http://www.skro.de/

==--==

Interesting story Rudy. I was sort of waiting for the follow up to
this wherein you stated the ban was lifted soon after. I guess it's
easier to bash and flamebait though.

My main complaint a few years ago was the public warning system which
attached some avatar to every post a member made, RSC's version of the
"Scarlet Letter". For members that use their real names at RSC, any
unprovable defamation of a member would be considered libel.

I browse the RSC forums, and a friend of mine is still a member.
Apparently the public warning system is gone, due to an upgrade in
forum software, but their policies still mention it.

I wonder how much activity there is at RSC anyway. Live for Speed
has it's own forums now. There are numerous web sites like rFactor
Central for finding out about new mods. RSC main usage would seem
to be a place to reference these other web sites, and for support
from other players.

..Even a ban lifted, of course, doesn't alter the prior facts at all
(especially the one about not exactly being worthy of getting banned in
the first place for releasing your own stuff, even if it's 'only' a free
li'l mod you worked on for a few years).

(Then again, I didn't really have a beef with RSC itself UNTIL I got
banned - because apparently RSC wasn't willing to deal with things
even-handed, but simply put the blame on the lone dissenter.
I've not heard a word from you, or others, about Paul S. getting
administered as well - and he started the whole mess by messing with our
files without prior consultation or notification.  Bias? Heck no
(<---sarcasm).

And since I object to being censored, I wouldn't be surprised of getting
kicked off another time. Which would only reinforce my argument that
bias and censorship at RSC does exist, of course.)

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank: -32)

Well I'm impressed with your GPLRank of -32. I stopped at -12 with half of
that from Nordschleife. The last time I messed with GPL I spent about 2
weeks, an hour or a bit more a day, trying to get a sub 1:20.5 at Kyalami,
only to end up with a 1:20.610 as my best, although I was getting pretty
consistent at getting several laps in the 1:22 or better on a run towards
the end.