Hi Guys....
Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture jobs
I've done in the last two months.
The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards
with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per my "tweaks"
log
(www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not
apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU,
there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time.
What's The Problem?
There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, towers,
grandstands....are the most likely to show it.
Why?
Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 (created by
Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command indicating the
graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the transparent
color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip sub-images at the
low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the file (trees,
grandstands, light poles, etc.).
What's the Fix?
There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2. Even then, I'm
not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he also fixes
the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time. If I have to go
back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them by
hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and there are over
1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing this so those
of you with low-end systems don't have this problem. Sorry...that's just a
fact of life.
I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I hear back from
Klaus as to his "prognosis."
Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of screenshots to
show this problem, I don't need any more.
Thanks,
Tom
Purple haze bug in Tom Pabst's NR2002 track retextures
Tom Pabst reported that his NR2002 track retextures showed a purple tint on lower-end systems because of how the transparent purple color was blended into lower mip levels, and offered video settings as a workaround. Schooner's criticism of the hoops required led to a sharp exchange with Pabst and Biz. Ruud van Gaal and HORBRA discussed the technical cause, and Pabst later reported that changes to the WinMip tool resolved the problem.
Automated summary.
Mis-spelled the URL link (sorry)...try:
www.pabst-racing.com/webscreens/tweaks.xls
TP
"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:NERc9.95008$[email hidden]...
"tweaks"
the
I'm
> not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he also fixes
> the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time. If I have togo
> back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them by
> hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and there are over
> 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing this sothose
> of you with low-end systems don't have this problem. Sorry...that's justa
> fact of life.
>
> I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I hear backfrom
> Klaus as to his "prognosis."
>
> Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of screenshotsto
Quoted text (7 lines)
> Hi Guys.... > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture jobs > I've done in the last two months. > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per myQuoted text (12 lines)
> log > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU, > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time. > > What's The Problem? > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, towers, > grandstands....are the most likely to show it. > > Why? > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 (created by > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command indicatingQuoted text (7 lines)
> graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the transparent > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip sub-images at the > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the file (trees, > grandstands, light poles, etc.). > > What's the Fix? > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2. Even then,Quoted text (10 lines)
> show this problem, I don't need any more. > > Thanks, > > Tom > > > > >Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can cause more
problems than good.
"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:NERc9.95008$[email hidden]...
"tweaks"
the
I'm
> not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he also fixes
> the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time. If I have togo
> back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them by
> hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and there are over
> 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing this sothose
> of you with low-end systems don't have this problem. Sorry...that's justa
> fact of life.
>
> I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I hear backfrom
> Klaus as to his "prognosis."
>
> Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of screenshotsto
Quoted text (7 lines)
> Hi Guys.... > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture jobs > I've done in the last two months. > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per myQuoted text (12 lines)
> log > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU, > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time. > > What's The Problem? > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, towers, > grandstands....are the most likely to show it. > > Why? > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 (created by > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command indicatingQuoted text (7 lines)
> graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the transparent > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip sub-images at the > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the file (trees, > grandstands, light poles, etc.). > > What's the Fix? > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2. Even then,Quoted text (10 lines)
> show this problem, I don't need any more. > > Thanks, > > Tom > > > > >
"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:NERc9.95008$[email hidden]...
"tweaks"
> log
> (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not
> apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU,
> there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time.
Been thru all that m'larkey and indeed - they no longer look like they went
thru the wash with some purple socks.
Still trying a few tweaks - but all in all - good stuff
Doug
Quoted text (7 lines)
> Hi Guys.... > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture jobs > I've done in the last two months. > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per myDoug....
All you needed to do for the "purple" problem....is the N2K2 settings.
Actually, just run 1280 or above res....and -1.0 LOD setting (or lower).
Although, it wouldn't hurt to try all the other settings, most people get a
substantial increase in FPS and picture quality.
TP
"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:VwSc9.4065$J47.305832@stones...
>
> "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:NERc9.95008$[email hidden]...
> > Hi Guys....
> >
> > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texturejobs
went
Quoted text (11 lines)
> > I've done in the last two months. > > > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards > > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per my > "tweaks" > > log > > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not > > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU, > > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time. > > Been thru all that m'larkey and indeed - they no longer look like theyQuoted text (7 lines)
> thru the wash with some purple socks. > > Still trying a few tweaks - but all in all - good stuff > > Doug > >Schooner...
This didn't cause any "corruptions" of any existing files...........its
nothing but a "visual anomalies" on lower end systems....which you are
advised in the readme.txt file not to use these track textures with anyway.
If your system is up to snuff.....try them, you are missing some nice
realistic looking track graphics.
TP
"Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:xRRc9.54908$[email hidden]...
jobs
transparent
> > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip sub-images atthe
fixes
> > the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time. If I haveto
> go
> > back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them by
> > hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and there areover
> > 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing this so
> those
> > of you with low-end systems don't have this problem. Sorry...that'sjust
screenshots
Quoted text (8 lines)
> Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can cause more > problems than good. > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:NERc9.95008$[email hidden]... > > Hi Guys.... > > > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-textureQuoted text (19 lines)
> > I've done in the last two months. > > > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards > > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per my > "tweaks" > > log > > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not > > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU, > > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time. > > > > What's The Problem? > > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, towers, > > grandstands....are the most likely to show it. > > > > Why? > > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 (created by > > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command indicating > the > > graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes theQuoted text (7 lines)
> > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the file (trees, > > grandstands, light poles, etc.). > > > > What's the Fix? > > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2. Even then, > I'm > > not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he alsoQuoted text (8 lines)
> a > > fact of life. > > > > I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I hear back > from > > Klaus as to his "prognosis." > > > > Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty ofQuoted text (13 lines)
> to > > show this problem, I don't need any more. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > >
"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:R6Uc9.176663$aA.35718@sccrnsc02...
> Doug....
>
> All you needed to do for the "purple" problem....is the N2K2 settings.
> Actually, just run 1280 or above res....and -1.0 LOD setting (or lower).
>
> Although, it wouldn't hurt to try all the other settings, most people geta
> substantial increase in FPS and picture quality.
>
> TP
I tried the full batch of tweaks - and the quality suffered quite a lot - by
clawing the mapping level back from 2, to 1, it improved again a little -
but anything closer to 0 than that - and it's pink-city again
Doug
On Mon, 02 Sep 2002 22:31:09 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
Well, I'd say with those purple pixels in there, any card that does
h/w generated mipmaps would have the same problem. I think. ;-)
What the LOADER should do is kill of all purple pixels, replace them
with say black+alpha=0, and THEN generate mipmaps.
Ofcourse, use .tga's with alpha and you're all set. :)
If WinMip2 creates the mipmaps itself then that's possible, but odd. I
create mipmaps only during loading time. Saves some disk space, and
CPU time wasted is so low these days so it doesn't make a difference.
And it should be done by the gfxcards anyway in the end.
So do the WinMip generated files actually include all the mipmap
levels already? (ofcourse that means you are able to give those
mipmaps a nicer filter but still)
Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/
Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/
Quoted text (20 lines)
>Hi Guys.... > >Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture jobs >I've done in the last two months. > >The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards >with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per my "tweaks" >log >(www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not >apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU, >there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time. > >What's The Problem? >There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, towers, >grandstands....are the most likely to show it. > >Why? >Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 (created by >Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command indicating the >graphic file's "transparent" color.You also said it only worked on nVidia cards not just an issue on low end
systems. I appreciate the work but seems like a lot of hoops to jump
through to get them to work is all.
"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:39Uc9.338029$UU1.57962@sccrnsc03...
> Schooner...
>
> This didn't cause any "corruptions" of any existing files...........its
> nothing but a "visual anomalies" on lower end systems....which you are
> advised in the readme.txt file not to use these track textures withanyway.
cards
by
> > > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the commandindicating
> > the
> > > graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the
> transparent
> > > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip sub-images at
> the
> > > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the file(trees,
> > > grandstands, light poles, etc.).
> > >
> > > What's the Fix?
> > > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2. Eventhen,
back
Quoted text (22 lines)
> If your system is up to snuff.....try them, you are missing some nice > realistic looking track graphics. > > TP > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:xRRc9.54908$[email hidden]... > > Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can cause more > > problems than good. > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:NERc9.95008$[email hidden]... > > > Hi Guys.... > > > > > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture > jobs > > > I've done in the last two months. > > > > > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4Quoted text (13 lines)
> > > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per my > > "tweaks" > > > log > > > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not > > > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU, > > > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time. > > > > > > What's The Problem? > > > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, towers, > > > grandstands....are the most likely to show it. > > > > > > Why? > > > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 (createdQuoted text (17 lines)
> > I'm > > > not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he also > fixes > > > the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time. If I have > to > > go > > > back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them by > > > hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and there are > over > > > 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing this so > > those > > > of you with low-end systems don't have this problem. Sorry...that's > just > > a > > > fact of life. > > > > > > I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I hearQuoted text (20 lines)
> > from > > > Klaus as to his "prognosis." > > > > > > Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of > screenshots > > to > > > show this problem, I don't need any more. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Doug...
I first read this reply and assumed you just didn't type the <negative> in
front of your numbers.....but then, in afterthought, maybe you didn't see
the <-> in front of mine. The LOD mip level should be set between "minus
1.0 and minus 2.0" - settings of 0 to 2.0 would be a very bad quality
picture. Just checking.
TP
PS: Doug, you'd be the only person who ever reported bad quality graphics
using those settings......so that's what made me thing you didn't read the
numbers correctly.
"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:al1sqr$1mn4t2$[email hidden]...
get
> a
> > substantial increase in FPS and picture quality.
> >
> > TP
>
> I tried the full batch of tweaks - and the quality suffered quite a lot -by
> clawing the mapping level back from 2, to 1, it improved again a little -
> but anything closer to 0 than that - and it's pink-city again
>
> Doug
>
>
Quoted text (9 lines)
> > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:R6Uc9.176663$aA.35718@sccrnsc02... > > Doug.... > > > > All you needed to do for the "purple" problem....is the N2K2 settings. > > Actually, just run 1280 or above res....and -1.0 LOD setting (or lower). > > > > Although, it wouldn't hurt to try all the other settings, most peopleSchooner...
I'd prefer not to even answer your reply......because apparently making sure
your system settings and video card settings are correct and optimized for
FPS and max quality graphics levels "is a chore" for you. That's fine, and
I don't care one way or the other if you run these track re-textures or not.
Its your loss, not mine (assuming you have a system strong enough to do so).
But, you keep making misleading statements, which could deter someone else
from running them who would like to have better, more realistic track
graphics. Therefore, I must reply.
I did not say the "re-textured" tracks work only on Nv cards. I said, "they
are optimized" for Nvidia cards.....as are just about every graphic upgrade
created today in the sim world. So, are the original track textures in most
sims as well. "Optimized" does not mean "works only on" - now does it?
The "settings" discussed as necessary to avoid seeing the "purple haze"
around some objects on the track are the settings one should be using in the
first place. Those reporting the "purple haze" clearly don't have their
video card "properties settings" correct (as was recently discovered).
Correcting that issue is "not jumping through hoops." Its correcting a
mistake the user has made. Making those corrections will not only prevent
the "purple haze" on my re-textured tracks....but it will also substantially
improve the graphics on all tracks...in ALL sims!
I'd appreciate you stop trying to "knock something around"....just because
you are not familiar with it. Okay?
Regards,
Tom
"Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Ej0d9.55068$[email hidden]...
CPU,
at
have
> > to
> > > go
> > > > back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them by
> > > > hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and there are
> > over
> > > > 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing thisso
Quoted text (40 lines)
> You also said it only worked on nVidia cards not just an issue on low end > systems. I appreciate the work but seems like a lot of hoops to jump > through to get them to work is all. > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:39Uc9.338029$UU1.57962@sccrnsc03... > > Schooner... > > > > This didn't cause any "corruptions" of any existing files...........its > > nothing but a "visual anomalies" on lower end systems....which you are > > advised in the readme.txt file not to use these track textures with > anyway. > > If your system is up to snuff.....try them, you are missing some nice > > realistic looking track graphics. > > > > TP > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:xRRc9.54908$[email hidden]... > > > Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can cause more > > > problems than good. > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:NERc9.95008$[email hidden]... > > > > Hi Guys.... > > > > > > > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture > > jobs > > > > I've done in the last two months. > > > > > > > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 > cards > > > > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per my > > > "tweaks" > > > > log > > > > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not > > > > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slowQuoted text (15 lines)
> > > > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time. > > > > > > > > What's The Problem? > > > > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, towers, > > > > grandstands....are the most likely to show it. > > > > > > > > Why? > > > > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 (created > by > > > > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command > indicating > > > the > > > > graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the > > transparent > > > > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip sub-imagesQuoted text (12 lines)
> > the > > > > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the file > (trees, > > > > grandstands, light poles, etc.). > > > > > > > > What's the Fix? > > > > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2. Even > then, > > > I'm > > > > not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he also > > fixes > > > > the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time. If IQuoted text (30 lines)
> > > those > > > > of you with low-end systems don't have this problem. Sorry...that's > > just > > > a > > > > fact of life. > > > > > > > > I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I hear > back > > > from > > > > Klaus as to his "prognosis." > > > > > > > > Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of > > screenshots > > > to > > > > show this problem, I don't need any more. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ruud...
First of all, the use of the "purple color" for a transparency color is
something not unique to Papyrus. However, they do it more often than some
other sims I've done graphics for. Its typical of not only the NASCAR
series mips....but GPL as well. I have seen this issue for more than five
years now....since I first started doing track graphics on Papy sims back in
the N3 days. The reason they use that color is because it doesn't appear
anywhere in the "natural color" range (sky, grass, trees, etc.) or on most
"objects" colors found in/on a race track. When you are "painting" an
object (say a grandstand) you use various methods for dithering, shading and
color toning to create a realistic "picture" of that object on the track.
The "field of color" the flat graphic file is painted on.....can't be a
color that is also in the object itself. Because the "field color" is going
to be designated as "transparent" to the game graphics engine. If you were
to choose, say "0-0-0 black" as your field color.....then any place that
color existed in the object would be transparent....and your object would
have "holes" in it when displayed on the sim track. If I'm painting a
"tree" I'm going to use a field color that couldn't possibly be contained in
that tree painting. With 16 million colors used to create that
tree....there's a color range I can safely use for the field color. More
often than not, the "safe" color is something of a bright pink. That is why
papy uses that color for their transparent field color.....on most mips.
Does that make sense?
Back in the old N3 days and initial GPL graphics upgrades days.......Papy
didn't use this bright pink very often. Why? Because the mip compression
routine used by DirectX (I assume DX dictates this...but not totally sure of
it....perhaps there's a "game industry" graphic artists who visit r.a.s. who
can clarify this)....didn't allow for the "compression" to actually ignore a
designated "transparent" color. What you'd see is the field color used was
close to....or compatible with....what ever the surrounding color would be
of the object when displayed on the track. For example....a fence that
would most likely be viewed with the sky as its backdrop on the
track.....would use a "blue hue" color as the fence object field color in
the mip. I guess this was because the edge color on the fence, would be
average with the field color of the mip.....so the very edge of the fence
would have a blue tone to it. When viewing the fence object against a blue
sky.....that "edge" would be correctly colored. That's great, only if the
"fence" was always viewed with a blue sky in the back drop. But, what if a
hillside come into the frame? All of a sudden, the fence edge would be
blue....with the brown hill as a backdrop. This was a huge problem for all
the "walls" in N3 and in GPL.....in the early days.
Papy's mip files.....for as long as I've been doing graphics on their
tracks, do contain the "sub-images" within the mip. This is unlike EA
sports track graphics (for example), which are bitmaps and the "hardware"
compresses them and mipmapps (to subimages) them as well. I don't know why
papy does it this way, I'm sure they have a very good reason and perhaps
someone can tell us. Back in the days when our video cards did not have
"LOD" sliders......particularly in the 3dfx video card heyday.....I could
improve the "viewed" graphic images simply by reducing the mip level
subimages (say reducing it from 8 subimages to 4 subimages), when I created
the mip file. In effect, I was creating mip files with a "built in LOD
slider." That tool is no longer needed since the same thing can be done
with the LOD slider, which simply limits the level of low-level subimages
displayed by the video card.
I don't want to give away any of the "techniques" Klaus Horbrand uses in his
WinMip2 program for converting bmps to mips (papy mips). Since I don't know
what he considers "proprietary" and what he doesn't.....I'll leave any
explanation of how his WinMip2 programs works....to him (should he desire to
explain that if he reads this post). What I can tell you is that the
low-level subimages are somehow not adhering to his programming command to
"ignore the field transparent color" in the compression averaging routine
Klaus uses - only on the low level mips (why....I don't know). So, you end
up say with a mip file with 9 sub-images.....subs #7, #8 and #9 have the
objects "edge" slightly pink! If you set your LOD slider so the lowest
level subimage displayed is #6....then you never see the "purple haze" color
on the object. Does that make sense...I hope?
As you can see....."the use of .tga's" or any other graphic file format is
not an option....when re-texturing papyrus tracks for N2K2. And, without
some sort of a "converter" that can create bmps out of papy's mip
files.....this re-texture work would never be possible. Klaus Horbrand has
been making WinMip converters for as long as I can remember.....diligently
coming out with a version every time papy releases a new sim. I think David
Noonan uses some of the same conversion "techniques" that Klaus does....but
I don't think they use the same programming/converter. I could be wrong
about that. As far as I'm concerned, my "hobby" of doing these track
graphics is only possible because of Klaus...and in the past, because of
David. I thank them a million times, every time I can.
Sorry for the length of this response....but its somewhat of a complicated
topic....and I'm a "wordy SOB" anyway! ....lol...
Regards,
Tom
PS: Some day, I plan to try to do some graphic work on your "Racer"
tracks......if I can find the time.
"Ruud van Gaal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
"tweaks"
the
Quoted text (10 lines)
> On Mon, 02 Sep 2002 22:31:09 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Hi Guys.... > > > >Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture jobs > >I've done in the last two months. > > > >The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards > >with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per myQuoted text (12 lines)
> >log > >(www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not > >apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU, > >there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time. > > > >What's The Problem? > >There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, towers, > >grandstands....are the most likely to show it. > > > >Why? > >Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 (created by > >Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command indicatingQuoted text (21 lines)
> >graphic file's "transparent" color. > > Well, I'd say with those purple pixels in there, any card that does > h/w generated mipmaps would have the same problem. I think. ;-) > What the LOADER should do is kill of all purple pixels, replace them > with say black+alpha=0, and THEN generate mipmaps. > Ofcourse, use .tga's with alpha and you're all set. :) > > If WinMip2 creates the mipmaps itself then that's possible, but odd. I > create mipmaps only during loading time. Saves some disk space, and > CPU time wasted is so low these days so it doesn't make a difference. > And it should be done by the gfxcards anyway in the end. > > So do the WinMip generated files actually include all the mipmap > levels already? (ofcourse that means you are able to give those > mipmaps a nicer filter but still) > > > Ruud van Gaal > Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/ > Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/Whatever Tom. I know how to tweak my settings thanks. If you don't want to
reply then don't feel a need to.
Perhaps learn to take a bit of criticism from time to time, like myself you
are not correct 100% of the time either.
And please don't assume if I have a good enough system or not or that it is
optimized, not sure how you assumed it's not but I guess that's your way of
feeling big is to run others down without information.
What you assume are "correct" settings are based on your opinion, not fact
or industry known proofs.
I'd appreciate you not spouting off as the expert in all areas when clearly
you are not.
What you said was "Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track
re-texture jobs I've done in the last two months.
The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards
with high-end CPU's."
From that I got the impression that the textures only worked properly with a
GF4 card which you state. You seem to believe that all people with a high
end system would be running a GF4 but many of us use ATI in our high end
systems.
"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:ic5d9.345749$UU1.59502@sccrnsc03...
> Schooner...
>
> I'd prefer not to even answer your reply......because apparently makingsure
> your system settings and video card settings are correct and optimized for
> FPS and max quality graphics levels "is a chore" for you. That's fine,and
> I don't care one way or the other if you run these track re-textures ornot.
> Its your loss, not mine (assuming you have a system strong enough to doso).
> But, you keep making misleading statements, which could deter someone else
> from running them who would like to have better, more realistic track
> graphics. Therefore, I must reply.
>
> I did not say the "re-textured" tracks work only on Nv cards. I said,"they
> are optimized" for Nvidia cards.....as are just about every graphicupgrade
> created today in the sim world. So, are the original track textures inmost
> sims as well. "Optimized" does not mean "works only on" - now does it?
>
> The "settings" discussed as necessary to avoid seeing the "purple haze"
> around some objects on the track are the settings one should be using inthe
> first place. Those reporting the "purple haze" clearly don't have their
> video card "properties settings" correct (as was recently discovered).
> Correcting that issue is "not jumping through hoops." Its correcting a
> mistake the user has made. Making those corrections will not only prevent
> the "purple haze" on my re-textured tracks....but it will alsosubstantially
end
files...........its
re-texture
> > > jobs
> > > > > I've done in the last two months.
> > > > >
> > > > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4
> > cards
> > > > > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as permy
> > > > "tweaks"
> > > > > log
> > > > > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem isnot
> > > > > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow
> CPU,
> > > > > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time.
> > > > >
> > > > > What's The Problem?
> > > > > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees,towers,
> > > > > grandstands....are the most likely to show it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why?
> > > > > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2(created
sub-images
also
are
> > > over
> > > > > 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doingthis
> so
> > > > those
> > > > > of you with low-end systems don't have this problem.Sorry...that's
Quoted text (14 lines)
> improve the graphics on all tracks...in ALL sims! > > I'd appreciate you stop trying to "knock something around"....just because > you are not familiar with it. Okay? > > Regards, > > Tom > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Ej0d9.55068$[email hidden]... > > You also said it only worked on nVidia cards not just an issue on lowQuoted text (8 lines)
> > systems. I appreciate the work but seems like a lot of hoops to jump > > through to get them to work is all. > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:39Uc9.338029$UU1.57962@sccrnsc03... > > > Schooner... > > > > > > This didn't cause any "corruptions" of any existingQuoted text (21 lines)
> > > nothing but a "visual anomalies" on lower end systems....which you are > > > advised in the readme.txt file not to use these track textures with > > anyway. > > > If your system is up to snuff.....try them, you are missing some nice > > > realistic looking track graphics. > > > > > > TP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:xRRc9.54908$[email hidden]... > > > > Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can cause more > > > > problems than good. > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:NERc9.95008$[email hidden]... > > > > > Hi Guys.... > > > > > > > > > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four trackQuoted text (7 lines)
> > by > > > > > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command > > indicating > > > > the > > > > > graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the > > > transparent > > > > > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mipQuoted text (11 lines)
> at > > > the > > > > > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the file > > (trees, > > > > > grandstands, light poles, etc.). > > > > > > > > > > What's the Fix? > > > > > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2. Even > > then, > > > > I'm > > > > > not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless heQuoted text (7 lines)
> > > fixes > > > > > the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time. If I > have > > > to > > > > go > > > > > back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them by > > > > > hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and thereQuoted text (30 lines)
> > > just > > > > a > > > > > fact of life. > > > > > > > > > > I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I hear > > back > > > > from > > > > > Klaus as to his "prognosis." > > > > > > > > > > Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of > > > screenshots > > > > to > > > > > show this problem, I don't need any more. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >What is your problem? If you don't want to use his stuff, don't. Although I wish Tom's updates
could work as flawlessly as the original textures, he does them for himself, and they look fine on
his system, so he owes you no explanantion. Why don't you grow a pair and go away? Your criticism
is NOT WELCOME here.
--
Biz
"Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand
alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and
the....." - Ash
Schooner <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8a6d9.55600$[email hidden]...
> Whatever Tom. I know how to tweak my settings thanks. If you don't want to
> reply then don't feel a need to.
> Perhaps learn to take a bit of criticism from time to time, like myself you
> are not correct 100% of the time either.
> And please don't assume if I have a good enough system or not or that it is
> optimized, not sure how you assumed it's not but I guess that's your way of
> feeling big is to run others down without information.
> What you assume are "correct" settings are based on your opinion, not fact
> or industry known proofs.
> I'd appreciate you not spouting off as the expert in all areas when clearly
> you are not.
>
> What you said was "Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track
> re-texture jobs I've done in the last two months.
> The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards
> with high-end CPU's."
> From that I got the impression that the textures only worked properly with a
> GF4 card which you state. You seem to believe that all people with a high
> end system would be running a GF4 but many of us use ATI in our high end
> systems.
>
> "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:ic5d9.345749$UU1.59502@sccrnsc03...
> > Schooner...
> >
> > I'd prefer not to even answer your reply......because apparently making
> sure
> > your system settings and video card settings are correct and optimized for
> > FPS and max quality graphics levels "is a chore" for you. That's fine,
> and
> > I don't care one way or the other if you run these track re-textures or
> not.
> > Its your loss, not mine (assuming you have a system strong enough to do
> so).
> > But, you keep making misleading statements, which could deter someone else
> > from running them who would like to have better, more realistic track
> > graphics. Therefore, I must reply.
> >
> > I did not say the "re-textured" tracks work only on Nv cards. I said,
> "they
> > are optimized" for Nvidia cards.....as are just about every graphic
> upgrade
> > created today in the sim world. So, are the original track textures in
> most
> > sims as well. "Optimized" does not mean "works only on" - now does it?
> >
> > The "settings" discussed as necessary to avoid seeing the "purple haze"
> > around some objects on the track are the settings one should be using in
> the
> > first place. Those reporting the "purple haze" clearly don't have their
> > video card "properties settings" correct (as was recently discovered).
> > Correcting that issue is "not jumping through hoops." Its correcting a
> > mistake the user has made. Making those corrections will not only prevent
> > the "purple haze" on my re-textured tracks....but it will also
> substantially
> > improve the graphics on all tracks...in ALL sims!
> >
> > I'd appreciate you stop trying to "knock something around"....just because
> > you are not familiar with it. Okay?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > news:Ej0d9.55068$[email hidden]...
> > > You also said it only worked on nVidia cards not just an issue on low
> end
> > > systems. I appreciate the work but seems like a lot of hoops to jump
> > > through to get them to work is all.
> > >
> > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > > news:39Uc9.338029$UU1.57962@sccrnsc03...
> > > > Schooner...
> > > >
> > > > This didn't cause any "corruptions" of any existing
> files...........its
> > > > nothing but a "visual anomalies" on lower end systems....which you are
> > > > advised in the readme.txt file not to use these track textures with
> > > anyway.
> > > > If your system is up to snuff.....try them, you are missing some nice
> > > > realistic looking track graphics.
> > > >
> > > > TP
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > > > news:xRRc9.54908$[email hidden]...
> > > > > Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can cause more
> > > > > problems than good.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:NERc9.95008$[email hidden]...
> > > > > > Hi Guys....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track
> re-texture
> > > > jobs
> > > > > > I've done in the last two months.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4
> > > cards
> > > > > > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per
> my
> > > > > "tweaks"
> > > > > > log
> > > > > > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is
> not
> > > > > > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow
> > CPU,
> > > > > > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What's The Problem?
> > > > > > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees,
> towers,
> > > > > > grandstands....are the most likely to show it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why?
> > > > > > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2
> (created
> > > by
> > > > > > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command
> > > indicating
> > > > > the
> > > > > > graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the
> > > > transparent
> > > > > > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip
> sub-images
> > at
> > > > the
> > > > > > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the file
> > > (trees,
> > > > > > grandstands, light poles, etc.).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What's the Fix?
> > > > > > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2. Even
> > > then,
> > > > > I'm
> > > > > > not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he
> also
> > > > fixes
> > > > > > the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time. If I
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > go
> > > > > > back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them by
> > > > > > hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and there
> are
> > > > over
> > > > > > 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing
> this
> > so
> > > > > those
> > > > > > of you with low-end systems don't have this problem.
> Sorry...that's
> > > > just
> > > > > a
> > > > > > fact of life.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I hear
> > > back
> > > > > from
> > > > > > Klaus as to his "prognosis."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of
> > > > screenshots
> > > > > to
> > > > > > show this problem, I don't need any more.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tom
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
???
Ok I won't say another word on this. Was just pointing out it that these
files and tweaks may not work for all. Sorry I mentioned any issues at all.
"Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:qs6d9.50483$[email hidden]...
> What is your problem? If you don't want to use his stuff, don't.Although I wish Tom's updates
> could work as flawlessly as the original textures, he does them forhimself, and they look fine on
> his system, so he owes you no explanantion. Why don't you grow a pair andgo away? Your criticism
news:8a6d9.55600$[email hidden]...
> > Whatever Tom. I know how to tweak my settings thanks. If you don't wantto
> > reply then don't feel a need to.
> > Perhaps learn to take a bit of criticism from time to time, like myselfyou
> > are not correct 100% of the time either.
> > And please don't assume if I have a good enough system or not or that itis
> > optimized, not sure how you assumed it's not but I guess that's your wayof
> > feeling big is to run others down without information.
> > What you assume are "correct" settings are based on your opinion, notfact
> > or industry known proofs.
> > I'd appreciate you not spouting off as the expert in all areas whenclearly
> > you are not.
> >
> > What you said was "Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all fourtrack
> > re-texture jobs I've done in the last two months.
> > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards
> > with high-end CPU's."
> > From that I got the impression that the textures only worked properlywith a
> > GF4 card which you state. You seem to believe that all people with ahigh
making
> > sure
> > > your system settings and video card settings are correct and optimizedfor
> > > FPS and max quality graphics levels "is a chore" for you. That'sfine,
> > and
> > > I don't care one way or the other if you run these track re-texturesor
> > not.
> > > Its your loss, not mine (assuming you have a system strong enough todo
> > so).
> > > But, you keep making misleading statements, which could deter someoneelse
in
> > most
> > > sims as well. "Optimized" does not mean "works only on" - now doesit?
> > >
> > > The "settings" discussed as necessary to avoid seeing the "purplehaze"
> > > around some objects on the track are the settings one should be usingin
> > the
> > > first place. Those reporting the "purple haze" clearly don't havetheir
> > > video card "properties settings" correct (as was recently discovered).
> > > Correcting that issue is "not jumping through hoops." Its correctinga
> > > mistake the user has made. Making those corrections will not onlyprevent
> > > the "purple haze" on my re-textured tracks....but it will also
> > substantially
> > > improve the graphics on all tracks...in ALL sims!
> > >
> > > I'd appreciate you stop trying to "knock something around"....justbecause
low
> > end
> > > > systems. I appreciate the work but seems like a lot of hoops tojump
are
> > > > > advised in the readme.txt file not to use these track textureswith
> > > > anyway.
> > > > > If your system is up to snuff.....try them, you are missing somenice
more
GF4
> > > > cards
> > > > > > > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings asper
> > my
> > > > > > "tweaks"
> > > > > > > log
> > > > > > > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problemis
> > not
> > > > > > > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or aslow
file
> > > > (trees,
> > > > > > > grandstands, light poles, etc.).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What's the Fix?
> > > > > > > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2.Even
> > > > then,
> > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he
> > also
> > > > > fixes
> > > > > > > the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time.If I
> > > have
> > > > > to
> > > > > > go
> > > > > > > back through all these files one by one....and re-convert themby
> > > > > > > hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....andthere
hear
Quoted text (10 lines)
> is NOT WELCOME here. > -- > Biz > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and > the....." - Ash > > > Schooner <[email hidden]> wrote in messageQuoted text (8 lines)
> > end system would be running a GF4 but many of us use ATI in our high end > > systems. > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:ic5d9.345749$UU1.59502@sccrnsc03... > > > Schooner... > > > > > > I'd prefer not to even answer your reply......because apparentlyQuoted text (8 lines)
> > > from running them who would like to have better, more realistic track > > > graphics. Therefore, I must reply. > > > > > > I did not say the "re-textured" tracks work only on Nv cards. I said, > > "they > > > are optimized" for Nvidia cards.....as are just about every graphic > > upgrade > > > created today in the sim world. So, are the original track texturesQuoted text (11 lines)
> > > you are not familiar with it. Okay? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:Ej0d9.55068$[email hidden]... > > > > You also said it only worked on nVidia cards not just an issue onQuoted text (9 lines)
> > > > through to get them to work is all. > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:39Uc9.338029$UU1.57962@sccrnsc03... > > > > > Schooner... > > > > > > > > > > This didn't cause any "corruptions" of any existing > > files...........its > > > > > nothing but a "visual anomalies" on lower end systems....which youQuoted text (10 lines)
> > > > > realistic looking track graphics. > > > > > > > > > > TP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:xRRc9.54908$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can causeQuoted text (12 lines)
> > > > > > problems than good. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:NERc9.95008$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > Hi Guys.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track > > re-texture > > > > > jobs > > > > > > > I've done in the last two months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you runningQuoted text (22 lines)
> > > CPU, > > > > > > > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's The Problem? > > > > > > > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, > > towers, > > > > > > > grandstands....are the most likely to show it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? > > > > > > > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 > > (created > > > > by > > > > > > > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command > > > > indicating > > > > > > the > > > > > > > graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the > > > > > transparent > > > > > > > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip > > sub-images > > > at > > > > > the > > > > > > > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in theQuoted text (13 lines)
> > are > > > > > over > > > > > > > 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing > > this > > > so > > > > > > those > > > > > > > of you with low-end systems don't have this problem. > > Sorry...that's > > > > > just > > > > > > a > > > > > > > fact of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will keep you posted through this string only.......until IQuoted text (29 lines)
> > > > back > > > > > > from > > > > > > > Klaus as to his "prognosis." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of > > > > > screenshots > > > > > > to > > > > > > > show this problem, I don't need any more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >They look GREAT on my sys. Thanks for the hard work Tom.
Doug D
P4 1.6
256 ddr
G4 4200 w/ 128mb ddr
"Ruud van Gaal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
"tweaks"
the
Quoted text (10 lines)
> On Mon, 02 Sep 2002 22:31:09 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Hi Guys.... > > > >Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture jobs > >I've done in the last two months. > > > >The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards > >with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per myQuoted text (12 lines)
> >log > >(www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not > >apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU, > >there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time. > > > >What's The Problem? > >There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, towers, > >grandstands....are the most likely to show it. > > > >Why? > >Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 (created by > >Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command indicatingQuoted text (21 lines)
> >graphic file's "transparent" color. > > Well, I'd say with those purple pixels in there, any card that does > h/w generated mipmaps would have the same problem. I think. ;-) > What the LOADER should do is kill of all purple pixels, replace them > with say black+alpha=0, and THEN generate mipmaps. > Ofcourse, use .tga's with alpha and you're all set. :) > > If WinMip2 creates the mipmaps itself then that's possible, but odd. I > create mipmaps only during loading time. Saves some disk space, and > CPU time wasted is so low these days so it doesn't make a difference. > And it should be done by the gfxcards anyway in the end. > > So do the WinMip generated files actually include all the mipmap > levels already? (ofcourse that means you are able to give those > mipmaps a nicer filter but still) > > > Ruud van Gaal > Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/ > Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/Thanks for the "back up," Biz....lol....
I don't know what got into Schooner.......maybe he's just pissed off at me
about the RASCAR stuff or something?
Anyway, thanks for sticking up for me....lol...
Regards,
Tom
"Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:qs6d9.50483$[email hidden]...
> What is your problem? If you don't want to use his stuff, don't.Although I wish Tom's updates
> could work as flawlessly as the original textures, he does them forhimself, and they look fine on
> his system, so he owes you no explanantion. Why don't you grow a pair andgo away? Your criticism
news:8a6d9.55600$[email hidden]...
> > Whatever Tom. I know how to tweak my settings thanks. If you don't wantto
> > reply then don't feel a need to.
> > Perhaps learn to take a bit of criticism from time to time, like myselfyou
> > are not correct 100% of the time either.
> > And please don't assume if I have a good enough system or not or that itis
> > optimized, not sure how you assumed it's not but I guess that's your wayof
> > feeling big is to run others down without information.
> > What you assume are "correct" settings are based on your opinion, notfact
> > or industry known proofs.
> > I'd appreciate you not spouting off as the expert in all areas whenclearly
> > you are not.
> >
> > What you said was "Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all fourtrack
> > re-texture jobs I've done in the last two months.
> > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards
> > with high-end CPU's."
> > From that I got the impression that the textures only worked properlywith a
> > GF4 card which you state. You seem to believe that all people with ahigh
making
> > sure
> > > your system settings and video card settings are correct and optimizedfor
> > > FPS and max quality graphics levels "is a chore" for you. That'sfine,
> > and
> > > I don't care one way or the other if you run these track re-texturesor
> > not.
> > > Its your loss, not mine (assuming you have a system strong enough todo
> > so).
> > > But, you keep making misleading statements, which could deter someoneelse
in
> > most
> > > sims as well. "Optimized" does not mean "works only on" - now doesit?
> > >
> > > The "settings" discussed as necessary to avoid seeing the "purplehaze"
> > > around some objects on the track are the settings one should be usingin
> > the
> > > first place. Those reporting the "purple haze" clearly don't havetheir
> > > video card "properties settings" correct (as was recently discovered).
> > > Correcting that issue is "not jumping through hoops." Its correctinga
> > > mistake the user has made. Making those corrections will not onlyprevent
> > > the "purple haze" on my re-textured tracks....but it will also
> > substantially
> > > improve the graphics on all tracks...in ALL sims!
> > >
> > > I'd appreciate you stop trying to "knock something around"....justbecause
low
> > end
> > > > systems. I appreciate the work but seems like a lot of hoops tojump
are
> > > > > advised in the readme.txt file not to use these track textureswith
> > > > anyway.
> > > > > If your system is up to snuff.....try them, you are missing somenice
more
GF4
> > > > cards
> > > > > > > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings asper
> > my
> > > > > > "tweaks"
> > > > > > > log
> > > > > > > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problemis
> > not
> > > > > > > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or aslow
file
> > > > (trees,
> > > > > > > grandstands, light poles, etc.).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What's the Fix?
> > > > > > > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2.Even
> > > > then,
> > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he
> > also
> > > > > fixes
> > > > > > > the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time.If I
> > > have
> > > > > to
> > > > > > go
> > > > > > > back through all these files one by one....and re-convert themby
> > > > > > > hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....andthere
hear
Quoted text (10 lines)
> is NOT WELCOME here. > -- > Biz > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and > the....." - Ash > > > Schooner <[email hidden]> wrote in messageQuoted text (8 lines)
> > end system would be running a GF4 but many of us use ATI in our high end > > systems. > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:ic5d9.345749$UU1.59502@sccrnsc03... > > > Schooner... > > > > > > I'd prefer not to even answer your reply......because apparentlyQuoted text (8 lines)
> > > from running them who would like to have better, more realistic track > > > graphics. Therefore, I must reply. > > > > > > I did not say the "re-textured" tracks work only on Nv cards. I said, > > "they > > > are optimized" for Nvidia cards.....as are just about every graphic > > upgrade > > > created today in the sim world. So, are the original track texturesQuoted text (11 lines)
> > > you are not familiar with it. Okay? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:Ej0d9.55068$[email hidden]... > > > > You also said it only worked on nVidia cards not just an issue onQuoted text (9 lines)
> > > > through to get them to work is all. > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:39Uc9.338029$UU1.57962@sccrnsc03... > > > > > Schooner... > > > > > > > > > > This didn't cause any "corruptions" of any existing > > files...........its > > > > > nothing but a "visual anomalies" on lower end systems....which youQuoted text (10 lines)
> > > > > realistic looking track graphics. > > > > > > > > > > TP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:xRRc9.54908$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can causeQuoted text (12 lines)
> > > > > > problems than good. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:NERc9.95008$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > Hi Guys.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track > > re-texture > > > > > jobs > > > > > > > I've done in the last two months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you runningQuoted text (22 lines)
> > > CPU, > > > > > > > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's The Problem? > > > > > > > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, > > towers, > > > > > > > grandstands....are the most likely to show it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? > > > > > > > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 > > (created > > > > by > > > > > > > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command > > > > indicating > > > > > > the > > > > > > > graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the > > > > > transparent > > > > > > > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip > > sub-images > > > at > > > > > the > > > > > > > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in theQuoted text (13 lines)
> > are > > > > > over > > > > > > > 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing > > this > > > so > > > > > > those > > > > > > > of you with low-end systems don't have this problem. > > Sorry...that's > > > > > just > > > > > > a > > > > > > > fact of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will keep you posted through this string only.......until IQuoted text (29 lines)
> > > > back > > > > > > from > > > > > > > Klaus as to his "prognosis." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of > > > > > screenshots > > > > > > to > > > > > > > show this problem, I don't need any more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Tue, 03 Sep 2002 16:55:35 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>Ruud...
>
>First of all, the use of the "purple color" for a transparency color is
>something not unique to Papyrus.
Right, I have purple keying in Racer as well. But it's still a bit
ancient by now. Just use alpha channels and you're set (it's cleaner I
think, although it takes a bit more memory yes).
>Back in the old N3 days and initial GPL graphics upgrades days.......Papy
>didn't use this bright pink very often. Why? Because the mip compression
>routine used by DirectX (I assume DX dictates this...but not totally sure of
>it....perhaps there's a "game industry" graphic artists who visit r.a.s. who
>can clarify this)....didn't allow for the "compression" to actually ignore a
>designated "transparent" color.
Probably because there is no transparent color. It doesn't exist on
graphics cards. You create it by treating pink as transparent, but on
CPU only; you then should create an alpha=0 black pixel or something
and not leave the pink hanging around.
Compression, like JPEG, kills exact color info so there goes your
transparent color that must be exactly 255,0,255.
...
>Papy's mip files.....for as long as I've been doing graphics on their
>tracks, do contain the "sub-images" within the mip. This is unlike EA
>sports track graphics (for example), which are bitmaps and the "hardware"
>compresses them and mipmapps (to subimages) them as well.
Which is more future-oriented. Doing your own mips enables you to use
a better filter, but then things get small and with anisotropic
filtering, well, why bother anymore.
> I don't know why
>papy does it this way, I'm sure they have a very good reason and perhaps
>someone can tell us.
Probably legacy stuff; GPL's rendering system is truly ancient and
targeted at Voodoo-type cards; 'if you can miss pushing a triangle to
the card then it's worth it'. Not true anymore these days.
>What I can tell you is that the
>low-level subimages are somehow not adhering to his programming command to
>"ignore the field transparent color" in the compression averaging routine
He's most probably simply using a box filter:
Take 4x4 pixels:
abcd => (a+b+e+f)/4 (c+d+g+h)/4
efgh (i+j+m+n)/4 (k+l+o+p)/4
ijkl
mnop
Very non-proprietary. :) But it filters in the pink with other colors,
obviously. As I said, there is no transparent color unless you make
all your functions listen to such a thing. With alpha channels, you
don't have this problem, you just boxfilter away.
>As you can see....."the use of .tga's" or any other graphic file format is
>not an option....when re-texturing papyrus tracks for N2K2.
Right; it was just a comment in general. BMPs are old & crappy (no
support for 32-bit), just like GIF which didn't support 24-bit; what
WERE they thinking?
But BMPs are supported natively on Windows, which is why it's used
much. But the format is not really the format of choice for racing sim
textures, I'd say. Because of that very 'can't use purple'
restriction. Entirely unnecessary and problematic with mip-generation
(unless ofcourse you translate the BMP 24-bit into 32-bit where purple
gets converted, which is what I do).
> I think David
>Noonan uses some of the same conversion "techniques" that Klaus does....but
>I don't think they use the same programming/converter. I could be wrong
>about that. As far as I'm concerned, my "hobby" of doing these track
>graphics is only possible because of Klaus...and in the past, because of
>David. I thank them a million times, every time I can.
I'm not saying that Klaus did a bad job; I was just trying to clarify
how things work behind it all, so it's easy to see why you get
filtered pink into the mip images.
And easy enough to fix to.
>Sorry for the length of this response....but its somewhat of a complicated
>topic....and I'm a "wordy SOB" anyway! ....lol...
Hehe, true. :)
>PS: Some day, I plan to try to do some graphic work on your "Racer"
>tracks......if I can find the time.
Try .tga files! ;-)
Or Photoshop .psd's, for all I care, works too. :) (but it's slower)
Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/
Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/
Ruud...
You are confusing me with philosophy! Stop it! .....lol......
I can't change to .tga's....or any other format except what papy uses for
N2K2.....lol.... So, don't confuse me with "possibilities" that exist in
other sims....lol... I'm not that techy, you know?
I'm not familiar with the term "alpha channel"....but I believe they do
something like that. Some (not all) of the mips when converted to bmps
produce a "filename.ti.bmp" which is a black and white only "silhouette" of
the original colored bmp. Is that the "black=0" alpha channel you speak of?
Papy has used that technique for several years to create the "racing groove"
darkening of the track surface. But, it just showed up in many other
texture files with n2K2 (could have been there for N4...I don't know because
I didn't do textures for that sim).
And, Klaus uses DXTex (DirectX) compression routine for his conversions.
Why he has a problem with the 255-0-255 "pink" is something I don't
understand (don't want to understand, either....lol....). I'm just sorry
this occurs and it makes it tough for those with lower-end systems (who
can't get decent FPS with LOD settings that limit the mip sub-images to
about half normal)....to run my tracks (without getting the purple haze).
What graphic file format does Racer use?
TP
"Ruud van Gaal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
compression
> >routine used by DirectX (I assume DX dictates this...but not totally sureof
> >it....perhaps there's a "game industry" graphic artists who visit r.a.s.who
> >can clarify this)....didn't allow for the "compression" to actuallyignore a
to
is
does....but
complicated
Quoted text (14 lines)
> On Tue, 03 Sep 2002 16:55:35 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Ruud... > > > >First of all, the use of the "purple color" for a transparency color is > >something not unique to Papyrus. > > Right, I have purple keying in Racer as well. But it's still a bit > ancient by now. Just use alpha channels and you're set (it's cleaner I > think, although it takes a bit more memory yes). > > >Back in the old N3 days and initial GPL graphics upgrades days.......Papy > >didn't use this bright pink very often. Why? Because the mipQuoted text (29 lines)
> >designated "transparent" color. > > Probably because there is no transparent color. It doesn't exist on > graphics cards. You create it by treating pink as transparent, but on > CPU only; you then should create an alpha=0 black pixel or something > and not leave the pink hanging around. > Compression, like JPEG, kills exact color info so there goes your > transparent color that must be exactly 255,0,255. > > ... > >Papy's mip files.....for as long as I've been doing graphics on their > >tracks, do contain the "sub-images" within the mip. This is unlike EA > >sports track graphics (for example), which are bitmaps and the "hardware" > >compresses them and mipmapps (to subimages) them as well. > > Which is more future-oriented. Doing your own mips enables you to use > a better filter, but then things get small and with anisotropic > filtering, well, why bother anymore. > > > I don't know why > >papy does it this way, I'm sure they have a very good reason and perhaps > >someone can tell us. > > Probably legacy stuff; GPL's rendering system is truly ancient and > targeted at Voodoo-type cards; 'if you can miss pushing a triangle to > the card then it's worth it'. Not true anymore these days. > > >What I can tell you is that the > >low-level subimages are somehow not adhering to his programming commandQuoted text (15 lines)
> >"ignore the field transparent color" in the compression averaging routine > > He's most probably simply using a box filter: > Take 4x4 pixels: > abcd => (a+b+e+f)/4 (c+d+g+h)/4 > efgh (i+j+m+n)/4 (k+l+o+p)/4 > ijkl > mnop > > Very non-proprietary. :) But it filters in the pink with other colors, > obviously. As I said, there is no transparent color unless you make > all your functions listen to such a thing. With alpha channels, you > don't have this problem, you just boxfilter away. > > >As you can see....."the use of .tga's" or any other graphic file formatQuoted text (14 lines)
> >not an option....when re-texturing papyrus tracks for N2K2. > > Right; it was just a comment in general. BMPs are old & crappy (no > support for 32-bit), just like GIF which didn't support 24-bit; what > WERE they thinking? > But BMPs are supported natively on Windows, which is why it's used > much. But the format is not really the format of choice for racing sim > textures, I'd say. Because of that very 'can't use purple' > restriction. Entirely unnecessary and problematic with mip-generation > (unless ofcourse you translate the BMP 24-bit into 32-bit where purple > gets converted, which is what I do). > > > I think David > >Noonan uses some of the same conversion "techniques" that KlausQuoted text (11 lines)
> >I don't think they use the same programming/converter. I could be wrong > >about that. As far as I'm concerned, my "hobby" of doing these track > >graphics is only possible because of Klaus...and in the past, because of > >David. I thank them a million times, every time I can. > > I'm not saying that Klaus did a bad job; I was just trying to clarify > how things work behind it all, so it's easy to see why you get > filtered pink into the mip images. > And easy enough to fix to. > > >Sorry for the length of this response....but its somewhat of aQuoted text (14 lines)
> >topic....and I'm a "wordy SOB" anyway! ....lol... > > Hehe, true. :) > > >PS: Some day, I plan to try to do some graphic work on your "Racer" > >tracks......if I can find the time. > > Try .tga files! ;-) > Or Photoshop .psd's, for all I care, works too. :) (but it's slower) > > > Ruud van Gaal > Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/ > Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/Ruud,
N2K2 has an own texture file format. These mip files contain all mip levels and
can be (5/6/5), (5/5/5/A), (4/4/4/4), (8/8/8), (8/8/8/8), DXT1 or DXT2. Usually
they are in DXT1 format.
WinMip creates these files out of a bmp and when necessary an additional alpha
map. When doing the conversion algorithm for DXT1, I ran into a problem with
multitextured surfaces not being displayed correctly. While trying to find out
what was wrong, I stumbled over a MS tool, which actually does this conversion
by loading the bitmaps into a D3D-DXT1 surface. Fine, that saves me a lot of
time. For the texture compressed mips, WinMip only does the headers.
It looks like the DirectX includes under certain circumstances the invisible
color(s) into the calculation for the resulting color in the lower mip levels.
I was told, this would be a desired effect. The artist has the possibility to
decide by choosing the invisible color how the texture blends into the
background when seen from far away.
Now, the magenta (pink) color, which Tom chose, is for sure not the best
choice. I guess, he was not aware of this effect and like me, he never saw the
low mip levels used by N2K2.
For I have no influence on the conversion process - the DX Texture tool is kind
of a black box - all I can do with WinMip is to change the texture before it is
handed over to the compression tool. Will mean I built in an algorithm which
optimizes the colors of the invisible pixels so there are most likely no color
changes at the lower mip levels, no matter which invisible color has been
chosen by the texture creator.
I have not heard of Tom yet, but the results of my test look very promising. He
will not have to redo his textures. There�s only a WinMip batch conversion
mip->bmp and then back bmp->mip necessary and the "purplization" is gone.
Klaus H�rbrand
WinMip file conversion tool
http://www.horbra.de/winmip
On 07 Sep 2002 14:05:07 GMT, [email hidden] (HORBRA) wrote:
...
>It looks like the DirectX includes under certain circumstances the invisible
>color(s) into the calculation for the resulting color in the lower mip levels.
>I was told, this would be a desired effect. The artist has the possibility to
>decide by choosing the invisible color how the texture blends into the
>background when seen from far away.
Hm, ofcourse blended filtering can be good or bad, whichever the
artist wants, but blending in pink into mipmapped levels will result
in halfly-pink colors, which I don't think are ever ok.
...
>For I have no influence on the conversion process - the DX Texture tool is kind
>of a black box - all I can do with WinMip is to change the texture before it is
>handed over to the compression tool.
Which is I think the best thing to do. I convert purple pixels
(admittedly hardcoded at 255,0,255) to black & transparent (0,0,0,0).
That makes filtering with whatever algorithm (meaning: taking into
account transparent colors or not) quite acceptable.
For objects like trees I think blending the (0,0,0,0) color would be
ok, as it makes the leaf edges smoothish. For fences, a harder
approach might look better.
But to avoid transparent colors bleeding into actual pixels I just
modify them upfront before handing them over to OpenGL (or in your
case, DX's DXT1 compressor).
> Will mean I built in an algorithm which
>optimizes the colors of the invisible pixels so there are most likely no color
>changes at the lower mip levels, no matter which invisible color has been
>chosen by the texture creator.
Right.
>I have not heard of Tom yet, but the results of my test look very promising. He
>will not have to redo his textures. There�s only a WinMip batch conversion
>mip->bmp and then back bmp->mip necessary and the "purplization" is gone.
Sounds promising. :)
Cheers,
Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/
Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/
Ruud...
I've been traveling since early last week, but I have hooked up with Klaus
in the last 24-hours. It appears the problem of the "pink haze" created in
the low-level mips has been resolved by his changes to the WM2 code (and how
it deals with averaging the invisible colors in the low-level mips). I
should mention again, all of this is rather academic.....if you are running
a GF3 or higher video card, you should have your mipmapping LOD slider set
so the low-level mips are never displayed. This is of course, the reason I
never saw this problem in the first place.
I did want to clear up one matter. I did not select the "255-0-255" pink
color to use as the "invisible field color" in my track re-texture work. I
have been doing this sort of thing for about 4 or 5 years now.....and that
"pink" color has been used extensively in mips for the "invisible" field or
background that TSO textures are painted on. Obviously, you can't select an
invisible color.....that would also be contained in the object
textures....and that color would almost never be included. However, I was
not aware that with the new WM2......Klaus' code was choosing that color to
display in the bmp file (after being converted from a mip by WM2). I
thought I was looking at a bmp file that was "exactly as papy had produced
it originally" - since that has been the way WM has worked for several
years. I simply left the "pink" color there.....after modifying the bmp and
then giving it back to WM2 for conversion back to a mip file. I have only
been working with N2K2 track texture files for a few months now.....and I
still run into some funny stuff that I've not figured out yet. According to
Klaus, I am one of the few people on the planet doing this....other than
Papy.....so my "knowledge base" on N2K2 graphic file architecture is a bit
"thin" at this time....with no place to go and get information from others
who have been doing this work longer than I have. Klaus is my only resource
for tech information on this work....although he has been extremely helpful
right from the beginning.
The "concept" that blending the invisible/field color with the object "edge
pixels" might at first seem to be a good one.....allowing the artist to
choose a field color much like the background color that the object will be
displayed against once the user is running the simulation. Especially, this
would be useful (as Klaus indicated) for the low-level mips. However,
that's "good" in theory.....but not in practice when applied to papy's mip
files. I would say something like 30% to 40% (depends on the track) of
their mip texture files contain multiple objects. Granted, they are usually
related in some way on the track.....but with multiple objects.....that
usually means multiple backgrounds (background colors) when displayed on the
sim track. So...that would effectively kills the usefulness of that
background blending ability. Would it not? Even single objects....can be
seen against varied backgrounds once you are racing on the track.
Trees...partially up on a hillside......especially on a road
course......would be seen by the sim driver with the hill as a background
(so perhaps some green color would be ideal - but you can't use green
because it would likely occur in a 16m color bmp of a tree)...and also a sky
as a background...where you'd want to use some blue color. Which to use?
Then again, if you are running a high-end video card you don't even see the
low-level mips anyway....so "who cares?" I'd much prefer to remove the
field color (invisible color) completely from the rendering equation.
Ruud, have you done the graphic textures for the Racer TSO/tracks? Or do
you have someone working with you who does the graphics? Also, I had heard
that a major revision/update to OGL was due out soon. Is that out...and
what changes are in it that have greatly affected how you work with OGL in
Racer?
Thanks for your input on this issue, Ruud.....you helped me to understand
some of things Klaus was trying to explain to me. I'm an artist....not a
programmer! ....lol......
Regards,
Tom
"Ruud van Gaal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On 07 Sep 2002 14:05:07 GMT, [email hidden] (HORBRA) wrote:
>
> ...
> >It looks like the DirectX includes under certain circumstances theinvisible
> >color(s) into the calculation for the resulting color in the lower miplevels.
> >I was told, this would be a desired effect. The artist has thepossibility to
is kind
> >of a black box - all I can do with WinMip is to change the texture beforeit is
color
> >changes at the lower mip levels, no matter which invisible color has been
> >chosen by the texture creator.
>
> Right.
>
> >I have not heard of Tom yet, but the results of my test look verypromising. He
> >will not have to redo his textures. There�s only a WinMip batchconversion
Quoted text (9 lines)
> >decide by choosing the invisible color how the texture blends into the > >background when seen from far away. > > Hm, ofcourse blended filtering can be good or bad, whichever the > artist wants, but blending in pink into mipmapped levels will result > in halfly-pink colors, which I don't think are ever ok. > > ... > >For I have no influence on the conversion process - the DX Texture toolQuoted text (15 lines)
> >handed over to the compression tool. > > Which is I think the best thing to do. I convert purple pixels > (admittedly hardcoded at 255,0,255) to black & transparent (0,0,0,0). > That makes filtering with whatever algorithm (meaning: taking into > account transparent colors or not) quite acceptable. > For objects like trees I think blending the (0,0,0,0) color would be > ok, as it makes the leaf edges smoothish. For fences, a harder > approach might look better. > But to avoid transparent colors bleeding into actual pixels I just > modify them upfront before handing them over to OpenGL (or in your > case, DX's DXT1 compressor). > > > Will mean I built in an algorithm which > >optimizes the colors of the invisible pixels so there are most likely noQuoted text (9 lines)
> >mip->bmp and then back bmp->mip necessary and the "purplization" is gone. > > Sounds promising. :) > > Cheers, > > Ruud van Gaal > Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/ > Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:48:49 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
If the textures indeed contain multiple images (textures) than
filtering like this will always fail to give nice results.
>Then again, if you are running a high-end video card you don't even see the
>low-level mips anyway....so "who cares?"
Mipmaps are there for a reason; they reduce anti-aliasing. You do
nowadays have things like anisotropic filtering and FSAA, but
mipmapping is still a good method to reduce aliasing in far-away
objects.
Even though you could turn them off with a slider, doesn't that
increase shimmering in distant objects?
> I'd much prefer to remove the
>field color (invisible color) completely from the rendering equation.
Right, it was a hack dating back to WinG I believe, where you just had
BMP, which has just 24-bit (no alpha). Being independent of a magical
invisible color is quite a bit cleaner.
>Ruud, have you done the graphic textures for the Racer TSO/tracks? Or do
>you have someone working with you who does the graphics?
I don't do any Racer graphics except for some dials and the menu
screens. The rest is done by others (various people). I'd advise
against using multiple images in a single texture image, for reasons
of mipmapping. However, cars generally do this and it seems to work
(although I've never checked how it does on the edges when mipmapping
is on).
> Also, I had heard
>that a major revision/update to OGL was due out soon. Is that out...and
>what changes are in it that have greatly affected how you work with OGL in
>Racer?
None. :) That's the beauty of OpenGL for a large part; the basic
design is very much ok and stable. Multitexturing came in a little
late, and that's used in a part of the code. But OGL is about drawing
polygons, and that's still largely the same concept as 10 years ago
when OGL was created by SGI.
OGL progresses slowly (1.4 now); there are drafts of 2.0 (although it
seems like it's taking a separate path from the regular OGL updates)
which effectively makes the card a programmable thing, rather than
adding more & more specialized effects (vertex/pixel shaders).
But shaders are quite lowlevel and I never actually went there yet.
Have gameplay as a higher priority...
I don't know too much about OGL2.0 though... It may include OpenML,
which stands for Media Library (for movies, video, audio etc). Which
would make it more of a complete DirectX counterpart (which is much
too platform-specific, so always needs to be abstracted away from
application code).
>Thanks for your input on this issue, Ruud.....you helped me to understand
>some of things Klaus was trying to explain to me. I'm an artist....not a
>programmer! ....lol......
Glad to be of help. :)
Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/
Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/
