GPL - stability under braking

I'm getting my lap times down at Silverstone, but in a six car AI race I can't stay with the two fastest cars. One problem I've noticed is that the AI cars brake later than me on most corners, and manage to stay on the track. If I try to brake later (which means I have to brake harder), I find the front end of the car starts squirming all over the place. Usually results in stepping on to the grass followed by a spin. Is this a brake bias problem? How can I retain car stability with later/harder braking? Thanks. -- Cpl Hicks

Hicks wrote:

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> > I'm getting my lap times down at Silverstone, but in a six car AI race > I can't stay with the two fastest cars. One problem I've noticed is > that the AI cars brake later than me on most corners, and manage to > stay on the track. If I try to brake later (which means I have to > brake harder), I find the front end of the car starts squirming all > over the place. Usually results in stepping on to the grass followed > by a spin. Is this a brake bias problem? How can I retain car > stability with later/harder braking? > > Thanks. > > -- > Cpl Hicks

Try adding a touch of throttle when you brake. And/or moving the brake balance back a little (higher %) Kev

"Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I'm getting my lap times down at Silverstone, but in a six car AI race > I can't stay with the two fastest cars. One problem I've noticed is > that the AI cars brake later than me on most corners, and manage to > stay on the track. If I try to brake later (which means I have to > brake harder), I find the front end of the car starts squirming all > over the place. Usually results in stepping on to the grass followed > by a spin. Is this a brake bias problem? How can I retain car > stability with later/harder braking?

If the front is unstable, this might be a result of excessive negative camber, so you could try reducing this & stiffening up the anti-roll bars to compensate, but if you're not to comfortable with changing the setup or can't feel the difference, just concentrate on coming off the brakes more smoothly, and if you have split axis pedals, do as Kevin suggests and add a little throttle to help stability. It works really well, but you need to be smooth and consistent, speed will come with practice. What's your brake bias set to at the moment? Are you using the standard setups? Malc.

"Kevin Clark" wrote... > Hicks wrote: > > <snip> > Try adding a touch of throttle when you brake. > And/or moving the brake balance back a little > (higher %) Putting the brake balance back, i.e. towards the rear, is actually a lower % number. Jan. =---

Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> > "Kevin Clark" wrote... > > Hicks wrote: > > > <snip> > > Try adding a touch of throttle when you brake. > > And/or moving the brake balance back a little > > (higher %) > > Putting the brake balance back, i.e. towards the rear, is actually a lower % > number.

Oh well, I meant make the % higher. 57 or so is pretty stable.

"Kevin Clark" wrote... > Jan Verschueren wrote: > > <snip> > Oh well, I meant make the % higher. 57 or so is pretty > stable. Indeed, putting the brake balance forward stabilizes the car as there's less chance of locking the rear wheels up. Understeering off the track is also no fun whatsoever, though. ;-)) Jan. =---

Also keep in mind, the AI has a whole different physics model(or lack of) then you do. There's numerous things they can do, you'll never be able to do. John "Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I'm getting my lap times down at Silverstone, but in a six car AI race > I can't stay with the two fastest cars. One problem I've noticed is > that the AI cars brake later than me on most corners, and manage to > stay on the track. If I try to brake later (which means I have to > brake harder), I find the front end of the car starts squirming all > over the place. Usually results in stepping on to the grass followed > by a spin. Is this a brake bias problem? How can I retain car > stability with later/harder braking? > > Thanks. > > -- > Cpl Hicks

John Pancoast <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Also keep in mind, the AI has a whole different physics model(or lack of) > then you do. > > There's numerous things they can do, you'll never be able to do. Also bear in mind that the 'Global Hype' thing means that you're not *supposed* to be able to beat the top couple of AI cars... Jonny

Some good suggestions were posted, but I would like to suggest a different tack entirely. I have done some calculations on GPL suspension deflections under different loads, and there is no doubt in my mind that under heavy braking, with the default setups, you are hitting the bump rubbers hard. This causes the front tire load to go too high and is one cause of squirming. I would suggest first just lowering the front bump rubbers to the minimum and seeing if that feels any better. If it still feels squirrelly, raise the front spring stiffness one notch. On most of my setups I have lowered front and rear bump rubbers to 1 inch, and if that causes me to hit the ground I raise the ride height instead of the bump rubbers. "Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I'm getting my lap times down at Silverstone, but in a six car AI race > I can't stay with the two fastest cars. One problem I've noticed is > that the AI cars brake later than me on most corners, and manage to > stay on the track. If I try to brake later (which means I have to > brake harder), I find the front end of the car starts squirming all > over the place. Usually results in stepping on to the grass followed > by a spin. Is this a brake bias problem? How can I retain car > stability with later/harder braking? > > Thanks. > > -- > Cpl Hicks

Similarly, there are things you can do that they can't. Also in your setup, check to see if it's symmetrical. Jim John Pancoast wrote:

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> Also keep in mind, the AI has a whole different physics model(or lack of) >then you do. > > There's numerous things they can do, you'll never be able to do. > >John > > >"Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... > >>I'm getting my lap times down at Silverstone, but in a six car AI race >>I can't stay with the two fastest cars. One problem I've noticed is >>that the AI cars brake later than me on most corners, and manage to >>stay on the track. If I try to brake later (which means I have to >>brake harder), I find the front end of the car starts squirming all >>over the place. Usually results in stepping on to the grass followed >>by a spin. Is this a brake bias problem? How can I retain car >>stability with later/harder braking? >> >>Thanks. >> >>-- >>Cpl Hicks >> > >

Really ? What is that ? Not being a smartass, honestly can't think of any thing. John "The Carvalho Family" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... Similarly, there are things you can do that they can't. Also in your setup, check to see if it's symmetrical. Jim John Pancoast wrote: Also keep in mind, the AI has a whole different physics model(or lack of)then you do. There's numerous things they can do, you'll never be able to do.John"Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:[email hidden]... I'm getting my lap times down at Silverstone, but in a six car AI raceI can't stay with the two fastest cars. One problem I've noticed isthat the AI cars brake later than me on most corners, and manage tostay on the track. If I try to brake later (which means I have tobrake harder), I find the front end of the car starts squirming allover the place. Usually results in stepping on to the grass followedby a spin. Is this a brake bias problem? How can I retain carstability with later/harder braking?Thanks.--Cpl Hicks

"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Really ? What is that ? Not being a smartass, honestly can't think of > any thing. > > John > Drafting is the first thing that comes to mind, you benefit from following other cars, the AI do not. dave henrie

Some good suggestions to try there. But are you saying it's impossible to beat the top AI cars? They are certainly much faster than me. -- Cpl Hicks

"Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Some good suggestions to try there. But are you saying it's impossible > to beat the top AI cars? They are certainly much faster than me. As a general rule, the top AI will always be very hard to beat, but not impossible. They use your previous best times for that track as an indication of how fast they should go, but I don't think this changes during the race, so if you've improved, you should be able to beat them. I wouldn't worry too much about beating the AI, they are designed to try to beat you, but mainly to prepare you for the online races. Although they don't use the same physics as you, the line they follow and their braking points should be good enough that you can learn from them. Can you give an idea of the track/laptimes you're doing? Can you consistently do 1:30 laps at Monza, for example? I can't find you on GPLRank. Malc.

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:xxgf9.61814$Jo.11374@rwcrnsc53... > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Really ? What is that ? Not being a smartass, honestly can't thinkof

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> > any thing. > > > > John > > > Drafting is the first thing that comes to mind, you benefit from > following other cars, the AI do not. > dave henrie

Ok, thanks Dave. Of course, when they can brake a few seconds later than you going into the next turn, kind of defeats your draft :) John > >

> Ok, thanks Dave. Of course, when they can brake a few seconds laterthan > you going into the next turn, kind of defeats your draft :) > > John > Didn't you see the World Superbike race at Assen? All you have to do is run up the back tire of the guy in front of you...Stops you real fast!! dave henrie

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:S3nf9.274126$aA.47470@sccrnsc02...

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> > Ok, thanks Dave. Of course, when they can brake a few seconds later > than > > you going into the next turn, kind of defeats your draft :) > > > > John > > > Didn't you see the World Superbike race at Assen? All you have to do

is > run up the back tire of the guy in front of you...Stops you real fast!! > > dave henrie Lol, yeah, saw that.........oops :) Haga made no friends that day, eh ? John > >

Malc <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kdjf9.6898$J47.481104@stones... > As a general rule, the top AI will always be very hard to beat, but not > impossible. They use your previous best times for that track as an > indication of how fast they should go, but I don't think this changes during > the race, so if you've improved, you should be able to beat them. Would it be fair to say that if you can beat them, you're probably an alien? Or is the 'alien' cut-off faster than that? Jonny definitely *not* an alien ;-)

"Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6Lpf9.1837$[email hidden]... > > Malc <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:kdjf9.6898$J47.481104@stones... > > > As a general rule, the top AI will always be very hard to beat, but not > > impossible. They use your previous best times for that track as an > > indication of how fast they should go, but I don't think this changesduring > > the race, so if you've improved, you should be able to beat them. > > Would it be fair to say that if you can beat them, you're probably > an alien? Or is the 'alien' cut-off faster than that? I think it should be very obvious to YOU what planet you come from! What others may think about you is a very different matter... Malc, who has been called an alien, but isn't (honest!)

Well, John, I know there are a few corners -- VERY few! -- that I can get through faster than the AI cars. I can't really tell you how or why very specifically, but I know their AI limits the possible ways they can take a corner. In addition, we earthlings can also cut corners and cheat. ;-) Jim John Pancoast wrote:

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> Really ? What is that ? Not being a smartass, honestly can't think of >any thing. > >John > > > >"The Carvalho Family" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >Similarly, there are things you can do that they can't. >Also in your setup, check to see if it's symmetrical. >Jim > >John Pancoast wrote: > > Also keep in mind, the AI has a whole different physics model(or lack >of)then you do. There's numerous things they can do, you'll never be able >to do.John"Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in >messagenews:[email hidden]... >I'm getting my lap times down at Silverstone, but in a six car AI raceI >can't stay with the two fastest cars. One problem I've noticed isthat the AI >cars brake later than me on most corners, and manage tostay on the track. If >I try to brake later (which means I have tobrake harder), I find the front >end of the car starts squirming allover the place. Usually results in >stepping on to the grass followedby a spin. Is this a brake bias problem? >How can I retain carstability with later/harder braking?Thanks.--Cpl Hicks > >

"Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:6Lpf9.1837$[email hidden]:

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> Malc <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:kdjf9.6898$J47.481104@stones... > >> As a general rule, the top AI will always be very hard to beat, but >> not impossible. They use your previous best times for that track as an >> indication of how fast they should go, but I don't think this changes >> during the race, so if you've improved, you should be able to beat >> them. > > Would it be fair to say that if you can beat them, you're probably > an alien? Or is the 'alien' cut-off faster than that? > > Jonny > definitely *not* an alien ;-)

Well... In my races Clark runs about 1 second faster than WR. So I don't know how you should call those who can run faster than top AI cars ;) Alex.

[email hidden] (Hicks) wrote in news:[email hidden]: > I'm getting my lap times down at Silverstone, but in a six car AI race > I can't stay with the two fastest cars. One problem I've noticed is > that the AI cars brake later than me on most corners, and manage to > stay on the track. If I try to brake later (which means I have toThat is an essential feature of AI to be able to brake later than any human (or alien) can. Fortunately in some other corners AI is much slower. > brake harder), I find the front end of the car starts squirming all > over the place. Usually results in stepping on to the grass followed > by a spin. Is this a brake bias problem? How can I retain car > stability with later/harder braking?Here I assume that you don't lock rear, but the front gets out of control. When this happen, does it always turns to the same side or it may turn in either direction? If it can go in both direction I would suggest to set bump equal to rebound (or even 1 click higher), especially at the front. If it only turns in one direction that's probably caused by very asymmetric settings (primarily camber). To check if it's the case try to symmetrize your setup and see if the problem stays. If it goes away you will either have to learn to counter-steer to avoid going off the road under the braking or live with symmetric setup which will probably cost you few tenths on most of the tracks. Alex. > Thanks. > > -- > Cpl Hicks

"Malc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<kdjf9.6898$J47.481104@stones>...

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> > I wouldn't worry too much about beating the AI, they are designed to try to > beat you, but mainly to prepare you for the online races. Although they > don't use the same physics as you, the line they follow and their braking > points should be good enough that you can learn from them. > > Can you give an idea of the track/laptimes you're doing? Can you > consistently do 1:30 laps at Monza, for example? I can't find you on > GPLRank.

I've done a hot lap of 1:36.04 at Silverstone, but my consistent lap times are in the 1:40 - 1:42 range. I'm sure this early braking problem is preventing me from getting close to the 1:30 mark. Oh yes, and there are some corners I take very well, maybe even better than the AI cars (e.g. the left hand turn 2, and the final corner - Woodcote), but the rest are letting me down badly. -- Cpl Hicks

"Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Malc" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<kdjf9.6898$J47.481104@stones>... > > > > I wouldn't worry too much about beating the AI, they are designed to tryto > > beat you, but mainly to prepare you for the online races. Although they > > don't use the same physics as you, the line they follow and theirbraking

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> > points should be good enough that you can learn from them. > > > > Can you give an idea of the track/laptimes you're doing? Can you > > consistently do 1:30 laps at Monza, for example? I can't find you on > > GPLRank. > > > I've done a hot lap of 1:36.04 at Silverstone, but my consistent lap > times are in the 1:40 - 1:42 range. I'm sure this early braking > problem is preventing me from getting close to the 1:30 mark. > Oh yes, and there are some corners I take very well, maybe even better > than the AI cars (e.g. the left hand turn 2, and the final corner - > Woodcote), but the rest are letting me down badly.

At that speed I wouldn't worry too much about the AI, you've got room for improvement. A competitive time at Silverstone is around 1:30, like Monza, and would get you a decent grid position at any online race. Rather than worry too much about the setup (you'll get 50 different tips, all good, from 50 people) try to improve your exit speed from the corners. Silverstone is basically a point & squirt circuit, but because it has a few corners leading onto long straights, you need to get a good exit so you can carry as much speed as you can into the straight. Generally I've found that braking for a little longer and turning in later works for most corners there, and it's surprising just how much extra speed you can get rid of in the last couple of feet before you turn in, meaning your exit is more controlled. If you start braking later, you'll risk overshooting the turn in, but if your turn in point is a little later (and consequently your apex), you'll have time to lose enough speed to turn in without swapping ends. Give it a go! The other thing is, if you're using any driving aids (apart from the racing line) then switch them off. You'll be quicker, alot quicker without them once you're used to it. Malc.

Ok, thanks, yeah, I know what you mean now. John "The Carvalho Family" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well, John, I know there are a few corners -- VERY few! -- that I can > get through faster than the AI cars. I can't really tell you how or why > very specifically, but I know their AI limits the possible ways they can > take a corner. In addition, we earthlings can also cut corners and > cheat. ;-) > Jim > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > Really ? What is that ? Not being a smartass, honestly can't think of > >any thing. > > > >John > > > > > > > >"The Carvalho Family" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >Similarly, there are things you can do that they can't. > >Also in your setup, check to see if it's symmetrical. > >Jim > > > >John Pancoast wrote: > > > > Also keep in mind, the AI has a whole different physics model(or lack > >of)then you do. There's numerous things they can do, you'll never be

able > >to do.John"Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in > >messagenews:[email hidden]... > >I'm getting my lap times down at Silverstone, but in a six car AI raceI > >can't stay with the two fastest cars. One problem I've noticed isthat theAI > >cars brake later than me on most corners, and manage tostay on the track.If > >I try to brake later (which means I have tobrake harder), I find thefront > >end of the car starts squirming allover the place. Usually results in > >stepping on to the grass followedby a spin. Is this a brake bias problem? > >How can I retain carstability with later/harder braking?Thanks.--CplHicks > > > > >

"Malc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<_5Gf9.4546$571.451542@wards>... > The other thing is, if you're using any driving aids (apart from the racing > line) then switch them off. You'll be quicker, alot quicker without them > once you're used to it. > No I'm not using driving aids. Well last night I could go no quicker than 1:37 which is pathetic. I'm trying to get the pedals smooth, as I've noticed that any sudden change (esp coming off the brakes) is bad. But my pedals don't have much travel and it's not easy to do smooth controlled braking. Then again, I guess all you hot lappers could do better on my gear (TM Modena Pro) -- Cpl Hicks

"Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Malc" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<_5Gf9.4546$571.451542@wards>... > > > The other thing is, if you're using any driving aids (apart from theracing

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> > line) then switch them off. You'll be quicker, alot quicker without them > > once you're used to it. > > > > No I'm not using driving aids. Well last night I could go no quicker > than 1:37 which is pathetic. I'm trying to get the pedals smooth, as > I've noticed that any sudden change (esp coming off the brakes) is > bad. But my pedals don't have much travel and it's not easy to do > smooth controlled braking. Then again, I guess all you hot lappers > could do better on my gear (TM Modena Pro)

While I have to admit I could probably do a 1.37 with the keyboard, don't blame the controllers unless they're broken ;-) I use home-made (split axis) pedals & a ff joystick that are pretty knackered but I'm used to them. Just use whatever's good for you. If you're okay with modulating the brakes (backing off if you lock them up) and can apply the throttle progressively then your pedals are 'good enough' for now. Buy the speed-7's later ;-) What part of the world are you in? Or more to the point, do you have vroc set up & if so what time are you usually on? I could probably give better constructive criticism of your technique if I could see it. Racing online was probably the best thing that happened to my laptimes. Somehow it's just more real than racing the AI ;-) There isn't really anything else to suggest other than read the book that comes with gpl and practice, practice, practice... Malc.

"Malc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<Sb3g9.7502$J47.535815@stones>...

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> "Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Malc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:<_5Gf9.4546$571.451542@wards>... > > > > > The other thing is, if you're using any driving aids (apart from the > racing > > > line) then switch them off. You'll be quicker, alot quicker without them > > > once you're used to it. > > > > > > > No I'm not using driving aids. Well last night I could go no quicker > > than 1:37 which is pathetic. I'm trying to get the pedals smooth, as > > I've noticed that any sudden change (esp coming off the brakes) is > > bad. But my pedals don't have much travel and it's not easy to do > > smooth controlled braking. Then again, I guess all you hot lappers > > could do better on my gear (TM Modena Pro) > > While I have to admit I could probably do a 1.37 with the keyboard, don't > blame the controllers unless they're broken ;-) > > I use home-made (split axis) pedals & a ff joystick that are pretty > knackered but I'm used to them. Just use whatever's good for you. > > If you're okay with modulating the brakes (backing off if you lock them up) > and can apply the throttle progressively then your pedals are 'good enough' > for now. Buy the speed-7's later ;-) > > What part of the world are you in? Or more to the point, do you have vroc > set up & if so what time are you usually on? I could probably give better > constructive criticism of your technique if I could see it. Racing online > was probably the best thing that happened to my laptimes. Somehow it's just > more real than racing the AI ;-) > > There isn't really anything else to suggest other than read the book that > comes with gpl and practice, practice, practice... > > Malc.

1:37 with the keyboard! Guess I'll hold off on those new pedals for now eh? Well last night I went back to the Lotus, and what a difference! It's much better on the brakes, not as squirmy and you get much more confidence it's going to stay in a straight line. Consequently I did my best ever time of 1:34.48, and I'm lapping consistently in the high 1:30's. I'm probably getting into territory now where car setup can actually make a difference. I'm in the UK, and yes I've got WinVroc, but I was so slow I decided to pack in online racing until I could stay on the track, and I didn't want to ruin other folks races. But I could be online at say 8:00 pm -- Cpl Hicks

"Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well last night I went back to the Lotus, and what a difference! It's > much better on the brakes, not as squirmy and you get much more > confidence it's going to stay in a straight line. Consequently I did > my best ever time of 1:34.48, and I'm lapping consistently in the high > 1:30's. I'm probably getting into territory now where car setup can > actually make a difference. > I'm in the UK, and yes I've got WinVroc, but I was so slow I decided > to pack in online racing until I could stay on the track, and I didn't > want to ruin other folks races. But I could be online at say 8:00 pm

That's one hell of an improvement! When I first started out, like most people I chose the Lotus. After several hundred spins & crashes I tried the slower cars (the Cooper (Coventry) was, and still is my favourite) and found that with less power, I had to race more cleanly and smoothly to match my Lotus times. When I went back to the Lotus, I got a huge improvement in laptimes, because I was still using the techniques for the slower cars, but with more power I could lap much faster. Then I went back to the Cooper & again tried to match my Lotus times and so on. I've kept doing that & I've just changed from a period of 3-4 months mainly in the other cars back to the Lotus again, hoping to improve my GPLRank a bit. The Monster Rank tables are really handy for spotting what car/track I'm weak on, so I concentrate on getting my Monster Rank numerically close to my GPLRank & so on. A 1:34.xx is fast enough to race online, although you'd still be a 'mobile chicaine' towards the end of most races, but learning how to be overtaken without holding the faster driver up, and more importantly without losing time yourself is an important lesson, and one many online racers could do with learning themselves;-) Online racing also gives you the chance to see how other drivers take the corners, so that you can see where you're going wrong, and what their braking points are etc. It also puts you under more pressure than racing the AI, mainly because you'll not want to 'spoil' someone else's fun by holding them up or taking them out. The majority of drivers are polite & courteous, and as long as you are too, it won't really matter how fast or slow you are. Someone always wins, someone always has to come last! I'll make sure I'm in the main GPL chatroom at 8pm tonight, and we'll see if there's a suitable race to practice in. Silverstone doesn't come up too often unfortunately, but Monza's always a popular track, so we'll just have to see at the time. Alternatively mail me a replay (keep it small though, I'm on dial-up) & I can rip your technique to pieces in private if you prefer ;-) Malc. -- malc (at) belper dot plus dot com GPLRank -30.08 Monster Rank -34.21

Hicks, Just some quick thoughts here. First, have you tried GPL Replay Analyzer? There is no better way I know of to figure out where you are losing time than to pull up one of your replays and compare it to the ones that come with the game. Secondly, is it possible that the problem you are having is not so much braking itself but what happens after braking? Most of the cars are quite stable under braking as long as you a) brake in a straight line, b) don't lock up the wheels, and c) don't push the brake bias too far rearward. The problem I think a lot of people have (and I still have if I don't consciously watch for it) is that the rear end is going to come out as you get off the brakes and turn in, and so if you are not used to that there is a tendency to stay off the throttle and try and correct with steering. Don't do it! The rear end is supposed to come out as you turn in, and the right way to catch it is to get back on the throttle. Smooooothly. It is amazing how much more stable the cars in GPL feel if you get right back on the throttle after releasing the brakes. It is also amazing how much faster you can enter a corner when you do this properly. It's a bit tricky, because you have to get the timing (a very brief pause is sometimes helpful) and the feel right (too little throttle and you understeer off the outside, too much and you spin), but once you get it you will be amazed at the difference. Watching replays is helpful, listen to the sound of the engine and watch to see where the speed starts to come back up, this will give you some idea of the right timing. Hope that helps, Hal 0 < GPL Rank < 100 ;o) "Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Malc" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<Sb3g9.7502$J47.535815@stones>...

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> > 1:37 with the keyboard! Guess I'll hold off on those new pedals for > now eh? > Well last night I went back to the Lotus, and what a difference! It's > much better on the brakes, not as squirmy and you get much more > confidence it's going to stay in a straight line. Consequently I did > my best ever time of 1:34.48, and I'm lapping consistently in the high > 1:30's. I'm probably getting into territory now where car setup can > actually make a difference. > I'm in the UK, and yes I've got WinVroc, but I was so slow I decided > to pack in online racing until I could stay on the track, and I didn't > want to ruin other folks races. But I could be online at say 8:00 pm > > -- > Cpl Hicks

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:alttt1$14hl8$[email hidden]...

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> Hicks, > > Just some quick thoughts here. First, have you tried GPL Replay > Analyzer? There is no better way I know of to figure out where you are > losing time than to pull up one of your replays and compare it to the > ones that come with the game. > > Secondly, is it possible that the problem you are having is not so much > braking itself but what happens after braking? Most of the cars are > quite stable under braking as long as you a) brake in a straight line, > b) don't lock up the wheels, and c) don't push the brake bias too far > rearward. The problem I think a lot of people have (and I still have if > I don't consciously watch for it) is that the rear end is going to come > out as you get off the brakes and turn in, and so if you are not used to > that there is a tendency to stay off the throttle and try and correct > with steering. Don't do it! The rear end is supposed to come out as > you turn in, and the right way to catch it is to get back on the > throttle. Smooooothly. > > It is amazing how much more stable the cars in GPL feel if you get right > back on the throttle after releasing the brakes. It is also amazing how > much faster you can enter a corner when you do this properly. It's a > bit tricky, because you have to get the timing (a very brief pause is > sometimes helpful) and the feel right (too little throttle and you > understeer off the outside, too much and you spin), but once you get it > you will be amazed at the difference. Watching replays is helpful, > listen to the sound of the engine and watch to see where the speed > starts to come back up, this will give you some idea of the right > timing. > > Hope that helps, > Hal > 0 < GPL Rank < 100 ;o)

Yup, not much you can do that's worse than turning in on a trailing throttle. otoh pretty much anything that gets the back end out (ie helps the car to turn in) is a good thing, but the trick is in catching it ;-) Malc.

On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:32:29 +0100, "Malc" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Malc, who has been called an alien, but isn't (honest!) I've raced with him. He is. Don't listen to him. :) Paul

"Max" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:32:29 +0100, "Malc" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Malc, who has been called an alien, but isn't (honest!) > > I've raced with him. He is. Don't listen to him. > > :) > > Paul

So I guess you were one of the ones I didn't hit then ;-) Malc.