OT: Da Matta vs. deer, not good

"mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/30253/ > Damn..........sucks. Ed

Hope he recovers. Anyone remember the sixties F1 driver killed by a corner worker carrying a fire extinguisher? I saw a clip posted somewhere but I havent been able to find it again. Anyone recall this short video clip and where a copy might be had?? Mitch "Ed White" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0yPAg.1024$[email hidden]...

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> > "mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/30253/ >> > > Damn..........sucks. > > Ed >

It was Tom Pryce at Kyalami in 1977 Mitch. The video is 4.7mb zipped. I can email it if you like. I warn you though it's not something you want to watch over and over again. The corner worker body is all but liquified on impact. On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 22:35:33 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Hope he recovers. > >Anyone remember the sixties F1 driver killed by a corner worker carrying a >fire extinguisher? I saw a clip posted somewhere but I havent been able to >find it again. Anyone recall this short video clip and where a copy might >be had?? > >Mitch > > >"Ed White" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:0yPAg.1024$[email hidden]... >> >> "mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >>> http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/30253/ >>> >> >> Damn..........sucks. >> >> Ed >> >

Mitch_A wrote:

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> Hope he recovers. > > Anyone remember the sixties F1 driver killed by a corner worker carrying a > fire extinguisher? I saw a clip posted somewhere but I havent been able to > find it again. Anyone recall this short video clip and where a copy might > be had?? > > Mitch

you need help

http://www.flat-6.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14908&goto=nextoldest -- Scott B. Husted http://www.Husted.cc

Mitch_A wrote:

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> Hope he recovers. > > Anyone remember the sixties F1 driver killed by a corner worker carrying a > fire extinguisher? I saw a clip posted somewhere but I havent been able to > find it again. Anyone recall this short video clip and where a copy might > be had?? > > Mitch

Sick bastard!

sammy wrote:

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> Mitch_A wrote: >> Hope he recovers. >> >> Anyone remember the sixties F1 driver killed by a corner worker >> carrying a fire extinguisher? I saw a clip posted somewhere but I >> havent been able to find it again. Anyone recall this short video >> clip and where a copy might be had?? >> >> Mitch > > you need help

I have seen that same video. It is easy to become complacent about racing drivers and talk about the dumbing down of modern racing series, but there is a tragic side of motor racing. Dealing with it is a personal preference - some need to see it others would rather not. It is not the same thing as watching some crash compilation on cable TV.

Tony Rickard wrote:

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> sammy wrote: > >> Mitch_A wrote: >> >>> Hope he recovers. >>> >>> Anyone remember the sixties F1 driver killed by a corner worker >>> carrying a fire extinguisher? I saw a clip posted somewhere but I >>> havent been able to find it again. Anyone recall this short video >>> clip and where a copy might be had?? >>> >>> Mitch >> >> >> you need help > > > I have seen that same video. It is easy to become complacent about > racing drivers and talk about the dumbing down of modern racing series, > but there is a tragic side of motor racing. Dealing with it is a > personal preference - some need to see it others would rather not. It is > not the same thing as watching some crash compilation on cable TV. >

Agreed. But some twisted people need to 'find it again'. Christ, isn't once enough for these sick fucks?

Thanks Scott. Im not sure this was the one I recall though. Maybe a different angle of the same crash. Mitch "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > http://www.flat-6.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14908&goto=nextoldest > > -- > Scott B. Husted > http://www.Husted.cc

As Hemmingway said, "there are only 3 real sports, the rest are games adults play". Auto racing is one can you name the other 2? Mitch "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZJZAg.111920$[email hidden]...

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> sammy wrote: >> Mitch_A wrote: >>> Hope he recovers. >>> >>> Anyone remember the sixties F1 driver killed by a corner worker carrying >>> a fire extinguisher? I saw a clip posted somewhere but I havent been >>> able to find it again. Anyone recall this short video clip and where a >>> copy might be had?? >>> >>> Mitch >> >> you need help > > I have seen that same video. It is easy to become complacent about racing > drivers and talk about the dumbing down of modern racing series, but there > is a tragic side of motor racing. Dealing with it is a personal > preference - some need to see it others would rather not. It is not the > same thing as watching some crash compilation on cable TV. >

Mitch_A wrote: > As Hemmingway said, "there are only 3 real sports, the rest are games adults > play". Auto racing is one can you name the other 2? Now don't start a debate about bull fighting! This could go way OT even by your standards, Mitch :) Mountain climbing being the other

Mitch_A wrote: > As Hemmingway said, "there are only 3 real sports, the rest are games adults > play". Auto racing is one can you name the other 2? > > Mitch Anyone who gets off on bullfighting is a sick puppy. Just because Hemingway wrote some good books doesn't make him right, dumbass.

Reading comprehension nor critical thinking play into your strong suits eh? Who enjoys bullfighting again? Right about what? It was merely a statement regarding what he considers sport and what he considers games. Or life threatening vs. non life threatening for a simpleton like you. You obviously never read his works or are just to dumb to comprehend english. Oh yea, we already covered that.... Buh-Bye loser! "Garrot" <[email hidden]> spewed his load in message

Ding ding ding. I should know better than ask da man that kinda question :) Mitch "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in > Mountain climbing being the other >

In article <zBeBg.4449$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Reading comprehension nor critical thinking play into your strong suits eh? > > Who enjoys bullfighting again? Right about what? It was merely a statement > regarding what he considers sport and what he considers games. Or life > threatening vs. non life threatening for a simpleton like you. You > obviously never read his works or are just to dumb to comprehend english. > Oh yea, we already covered that.... > > Buh-Bye loser! > > "Garrot" <[email hidden]> spewed his load in message > > >

But then there's also boxing. That's killed a few in it's time. And I'm sure there are probably others. Besides, in the end that was just one "man's" opinion. -- Pete Ives Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

Mitch_A wrote:

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> Reading comprehension nor critical thinking play into your strong suits eh? > > Who enjoys bullfighting again? Right about what? It was merely a statement > regarding what he considers sport and what he considers games. Or life > threatening vs. non life threatening for a simpleton like you. You > obviously never read his works or are just to dumb to comprehend english. > Oh yea, we already covered that.... > > Buh-Bye loser! > > "Garrot" <[email hidden]> spewed his load in message

Mitch is an expert at regurgitating the thoughts of others.

And? Not real sure what some of you are arguing about... As you said it was only one mans opinion... This is too funny. And I thought the Fredrickson and all his butt buddies left for good LOL.... "Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote >

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> But then there's also boxing. That's killed a few in it's time. And > I'm sure there are probably others. Besides, in the end that was just > one "man's" opinion. > > -- > Pete Ives > Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

Ah, Fredrickson/Rex/Reggie/larry Bakesmith/etc/etc/etc returns once again. I knew something looked familiar about your one sentence writing style. That of a 2 yr old girl.. Id suggest seeking help from your local Tampa Bay freee clinic. The meds will help... Your mommy must be so proud LOLOLOL... Garrot and Trev must be your sisters eh? The genetic traits are undeniable... Ill be happy to supply you my address if you want to go to the next level beyond internet stalking ok... Once again BUH-BYE LOSER! She must be related to David Fisher LOL... "sammy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QbmBg.6578$[email hidden]... > > Mitch is an expert at regurgitating the thoughts of others.

Mitch_A wrote:

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> Reading comprehension nor critical thinking play into your strong suits eh? > > Who enjoys bullfighting again? Right about what? It was merely a statement > regarding what he considers sport and what he considers games. Or life > threatening vs. non life threatening for a simpleton like you. You > obviously never read his works or are just to dumb to comprehend english. > Oh yea, we already covered that.... > > Buh-Bye loser!

I was reading Hemingway when you were still in diapers. Oh, right, you still are in diapers.

Mitch_A wrote:

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> Reading comprehension nor critical thinking play into your strong suits eh? > > Who enjoys bullfighting again? Right about what? It was merely a statement > regarding what he considers sport and what he considers games. Or life > threatening vs. non life threatening for a simpleton like you. You > obviously never read his works or are just to dumb to comprehend english. > Oh yea, we already covered that.... > > Buh-Bye loser! > > "Garrot" <[email hidden]> spewed his load in message > >

You like to kill pigs while their little buddies watch what's going to happen to them next, don't you? If you don't do that, then what do you think of people who do?

Garrot wrote:

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> Mitch_A wrote: > >> Reading comprehension nor critical thinking play into your strong >> suits eh? >> >> Who enjoys bullfighting again? Right about what? It was merely a >> statement regarding what he considers sport and what he considers >> games. Or life threatening vs. non life threatening for a simpleton >> like you. You obviously never read his works or are just to dumb to >> comprehend english. Oh yea, we already covered that.... >> >> Buh-Bye loser! > > > I was reading Hemingway when you were still in diapers. Oh, right, you > still are in diapers.

Trailer trash can afford diapers? Don't their young just shit on the ground, like Mitch shits in this newsgroup?

Mitch_A wrote:

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> Thanks Scott. > > Im not sure this was the one I recall though. Maybe a different angle of > the same crash. > > Mitch >

Oh God, it want a better view of the carnage now! Sub-human filth!

"mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/30253/ > FFS - all the safety bs they go to these days and they can't even keep a deer off a racetrack like *Elk*hart Lake???? So obviously there is not enough fence around the track to prevent this???? Da Matta should sue their asses off!

"Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:44d7284e$0$17547$[email hidden]...

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> > "mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/30253/ >> > > FFS - all the safety bs they go to these days and they can't even keep > a deer off a racetrack like *Elk*hart Lake???? So obviously there is not > enough fence around the track to prevent this???? Da Matta should sue > their asses off!

Deer have always been a problem at Road America. We did our club racing there in the 60's and then on the new track in the mid 70's and it was bad then. Since then, the deer population has more than doubled in that area due to less hunting because of the population growth in that area. Early morning testing was always the worst. Once the cars run for some time it usually scared them away from the track area, but wildlife is never completely predictible. Ed >

Hi "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:44d7284e$0$17547$[email hidden]...

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> > "mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/30253/ >> > > FFS - all the safety bs they go to these days and they can't even keep > a deer off a racetrack like *Elk*hart Lake???? So obviously there is not > enough fence around the track to prevent this???? Da Matta should sue > their asses off!

I'm not sure about this? what about kangaroos at Bathurst? seagulls hitting bikes at Phillip Island? were will it end. Rgds Phil.

"Philip Ford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:brdCg.9225$[email hidden]...

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> Hi > "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:44d7284e$0$17547$[email hidden]... >> >> "mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >>> http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/30253/ >>> >> >> FFS - all the safety bs they go to these days and they can't even keep >> a deer off a racetrack like *Elk*hart Lake???? So obviously there is not >> enough fence around the track to prevent this???? Da Matta should sue >> their asses off! > > I'm not sure about this? what about kangaroos at Bathurst? > seagulls hitting bikes at Phillip Island? were will it end. > > Rgds Phil. >

Same with kangaroos - it is gross neglect to allow that size animal any possibility to get on the racing surface. Obviously, nothing can be done about birds and they're usually a lot smaller anyway.

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> > > > I'm not sure about this? what about kangaroos at Bathurst? > > seagulls hitting bikes at Phillip Island? were will it end. > > > > Same with kangaroos - it is gross neglect to allow that size animal any > possibility to get on the racing surface. Obviously, nothing can be done > about birds and they're usually a lot smaller anyway.

Obviously litigation is the answer..... ;) I think Alan Stacey was killed back the 60's due to hitting a bird. Toronto's main airport had deer living within the fenced boundries and it's a LOT less rural then Wisconson and there's a LOT more lawsuit potential, not sure if they ever got rid of them totally. With a 4 mile track there's a lot of wooded infield, fencing might just mean you're penning them inside.

If I am not mistaken, Road America does have a fence to keep the animals on the track. The deer vaulted that fence. Wag "mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > > I'm not sure about this? what about kangaroos at Bathurst? > > seagulls hitting bikes at Phillip Island? were will it end. > > > > Same with kangaroos - it is gross neglect to allow that size animal any > possibility to get on the racing surface. Obviously, nothing can be done > about birds and they're usually a lot smaller anyway.

Obviously litigation is the answer..... ;) I think Alan Stacey was killed back the 60's due to hitting a bird. Toronto's main airport had deer living within the fenced boundries and it's a LOT less rural then Wisconson and there's a LOT more lawsuit potential, not sure if they ever got rid of them totally. With a 4 mile track there's a lot of wooded infield, fencing might just mean you're penning them inside.

"B Wegner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... If I am not mistaken, Road America does have a fence to keep the animals on the track. The deer vaulted that fence. Wag Yes they put the fence up when they did one of several reincarnations of the track back around 1970 or so (memory gets worse as I age). Fences are not very good at keeping most wildlife in or out of a complex as large as the property at Road America. Pocono is a good example of how inefficient even very high fences are when it comes to keeping deer off the track. They find a way to get in somehow. There are even a few bears in the Road America area (Kettle Moraine State Forest). The fact is that most tracks in the US are in rural areas and none are immune to wildlife getting on the track. Both Mid Ohio and Road Atlanta have had deer get inside too. I remember a long delay at a race when a doe and a fawn got onto the Milwaukee Mile which is far from being in a rural area. I remember when I did drivers' school at Road America over 40yrs ago that the instructor warned that if you go out early to do the first couple of laps carefully and that after a bit of time the deer get wary of the track because of the noise and are less of a problem. There were no fences that I know of back then. The back side of the circuit was like driving through the Black Forest.......:-) Ed

LOL, that's a good bit of history Ed. It's just that some folks seem to always want to play the blame game and sue even though IT WAS AN ACCIDENT and forces of nature cannot be completely contained no matter what you do! Wag "Ed Medlin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jg%Cg.4631$%[email hidden]... "B Wegner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... If I am not mistaken, Road America does have a fence to keep the animals off the track. The deer vaulted that fence. Wag Yes they put the fence up when they did one of several reincarnations of the track back around 1970 or so (memory gets worse as I age). Fences are not very good at keeping most wildlife in or out of a complex as large as the property at Road America. Pocono is a good example of how inefficient even very high fences are when it comes to keeping deer off the track. They find a way to get in somehow. There are even a few bears in the Road America area (Kettle Moraine State Forest). The fact is that most tracks in the US are in rural areas and none are immune to wildlife getting on the track. Both Mid Ohio and Road Atlanta have had deer get inside too. I remember a long delay at a race when a doe and a fawn got onto the Milwaukee Mile which is far from being in a rural area. I remember when I did drivers' school at Road America over 40yrs ago that the instructor warned that if you go out early to do the first couple of laps carefully and that after a bit of time the deer get wary of the track because of the noise and are less of a problem. There were no fences that I know of back then. The back side of the circuit was like driving through the Black Forest.......:-) Ed

Yes, I must admit that I have once again judged others by my own standards. To expect the typical human to be able to outwit a moose, deer, etc is a little silly I guess. Them some smart deer over there in 'merica. "B Wegner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... LOL, that's a good bit of history Ed. It's just that some folks seem to always want to play the blame game and sue even though IT WAS AN ACCIDENT and forces of nature cannot be completely contained no matter what you do! Wag "Ed Medlin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jg%Cg.4631$%[email hidden]... "B Wegner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... If I am not mistaken, Road America does have a fence to keep the animals off the track. The deer vaulted that fence. Wag Yes they put the fence up when they did one of several reincarnations of the track back around 1970 or so (memory gets worse as I age). Fences are not very good at keeping most wildlife in or out of a complex as large as the property at Road America. Pocono is a good example of how inefficient even very high fences are when it comes to keeping deer off the track. They find a way to get in somehow. There are even a few bears in the Road America area (Kettle Moraine State Forest). The fact is that most tracks in the US are in rural areas and none are immune to wildlife getting on the track. Both Mid Ohio and Road Atlanta have had deer get inside too. I remember a long delay at a race when a doe and a fawn got onto the Milwaukee Mile which is far from being in a rural area. I remember when I did drivers' school at Road America over 40yrs ago that the instructor warned that if you go out early to do the first couple of laps carefully and that after a bit of time the deer get wary of the track because of the noise and are less of a problem. There were no fences that I know of back then. The back side of the circuit was like driving through the Black Forest.......:-) Ed

Damned straight, and they're all armed. So watch it Buster! ;-) "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:44dd0a57$0$17541$[email hidden]... Yes, I must admit that I have once again judged others by my own standards. To expect the typical human to be able to outwit a moose, deer, etc is a little silly I guess. Them some smart deer over there in 'merica.

Byron Forbes wrote: > Yes, I must admit that I have once again judged others by my own > standards. To expect the typical human to be able to outwit a moose, > deer, etc is a little silly I guess. Them some smart deer over there in > 'merica. > > Um... um... Liberal!!!

LOL, I guess we should be able to stop other acts of nature like tornadoes and hurricanes too......that damn mutha nature jus' outwit us here in the states ever' time. Damnit, maybe we should find somebody to sue for those too....... Get off the bong mate! -- Wag "God, Guns, & Guts keep America Free, let's keep all three!" "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:44dd0a57$0$17541$[email hidden]... Yes, I must admit that I have once again judged others by my own standards. To expect the typical human to be able to outwit a moose, deer, etc is a little silly I guess. Them some smart deer over there in 'merica.

An interesting assertion ie that there is no difference between a hurricane and a deer. You are the manager of Elkhart Lake, right? FFS, you can't have it both ways - you're either stupid or deliberately irresponsible to save money - take your pick! Not only should there be litigation but those in charge should never again be allowed any position of responsibility in motorsport again. I'd even be happy to see them not allowed to operate a business ever again - a just punishment for a failure to apply proper OH&S procedures in the workplace which is probably the legal issue here. Da Matta is still in a coma and it is not known whether he will wake up or not. "B Wegner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... LOL, I guess we should be able to stop other acts of nature like tornadoes and hurricanes too......that damn mutha nature jus' outwit us here in the states ever' time. Damnit, maybe we should find somebody to sue for those too....... Get off the bong mate! -- Wag "God, Guns, & Guts keep America Free, let's keep all three!" "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:44dd0a57$0$17541$[email hidden]... Yes, I must admit that I have once again judged others by my own standards. To expect the typical human to be able to outwit a moose, deer, etc is a little silly I guess. Them some smart deer over there in 'merica.

It's apparent that no intelligent conversation is going to occur with you on this issue. I should have realized this previously. I'm done.... Do take care though sir. -- Wag "God, Guns, & Guts keep America Free, let's keep all three!" "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:44ddc5ce$0$17544$[email hidden]... An interesting assertion ie that there is no difference between a hurricane and a deer. You are the manager of Elkhart Lake, right? FFS, you can't have it both ways - you're either stupid or deliberately irresponsible to save money - take your pick! Not only should there be litigation but those in charge should never again be allowed any position of responsibility in motorsport again. I'd even be happy to see them not allowed to operate a business ever again - a just punishment for a failure to apply proper OH&S procedures in the workplace which is probably the legal issue here. Da Matta is still in a coma and it is not known whether he will wake up or not. "B Wegner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... LOL, I guess we should be able to stop other acts of nature like tornadoes and hurricanes too......that damn mutha nature jus' outwit us here in the states ever' time. Damnit, maybe we should find somebody to sue for those too....... Get off the bong mate! -- Wag "God, Guns, & Guts keep America Free, let's keep all three!" "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:44dd0a57$0$17541$[email hidden]... Yes, I must admit that I have once again judged others by my own standards. To expect the typical human to be able to outwit a moose, deer, etc is a little silly I guess. Them some smart deer over there in 'merica.

"Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:44ddc5ce$0$17544$[email hidden]... An interesting assertion ie that there is no difference between a hurricane and a deer. You are the manager of Elkhart Lake, right? FFS, you can't have it both ways - you're either stupid or deliberately irresponsible to save money - take your pick! Not only should there be litigation but those in charge should never again be allowed any position of responsibility in motorsport again. I'd even be happy to see them not allowed to operate a business ever again - a just punishment for a failure to apply proper OH&S procedures in the workplace which is probably the legal issue here. Da Matta is still in a coma and it is not known whether he will wake up or not. Byron, I was not trying to downplay the tragedy at all. I was just trying to explain some of the actual facts of the matter and give a bit of history of Road America because I practically grew up there as a teen. We have a LOT of deer and other wildlife here in the US and deer are especially populous about everywhere, in every state. Tens of thousands are hit by autos on highways every year. I don't remember any racers ever hitting a deer at Road America before, but many have been seen on or near the track for decades. If there were any cases of a deer actually being hit there, there were probably no major injuries to any drivers. All I was trying to do was to put it in perspective. There are miles of fences at Road America, but deer have a way of getting to where they want to go as is evidenced at many other tracks who also take precautions. If spectators can drive into the circuit to watch a race I can guarantee that deer are going to get in too. I hate to see Da Matta in his present condition and have always liked him as a driver. I hope and pray he will recover. I just cannot place blame on anyone for the incident. Call it an act of God or whatever you wish. I just see it as a very unfortunate accident. Ed "B Wegner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... LOL, I guess we should be able to stop other acts of nature like tornadoes and hurricanes too......that damn mutha nature jus' outwit us here in the states ever' time. Damnit, maybe we should find somebody to sue for those too....... Get off the bong mate! -- Wag "God, Guns, & Guts keep America Free, let's keep all three!" "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:44dd0a57$0$17541$[email hidden]... Yes, I must admit that I have once again judged others by my own standards. To expect the typical human to be able to outwit a moose, deer, etc is a little silly I guess. Them some smart deer over there in 'merica.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, as you say, the problem has been known about for years and still nothing has been done. There is a huge difference, illegal speeding aside (which is their gamble anyway), between a road car and a 200mph open wheeler where the driver has no protection around him. With an event like this, the fencing should be checked beforehand and patrolled for the entire event by security, not only for wildlife but kids jumping fences, etc. As for the gates - same thing - security personel - once again for the general reason of keeping out non payers AND also wildlife. Is it REALLY that difficult? Think about all the measures in place for safety in motorsport these days and now some bunch of bozos can't keep a deer off a race track!? Not good enough!

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>"Ed Medlin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:QnGDg.7894$[email hidden]... > >Byron, >I was not trying to downplay the tragedy at all. I was just trying to >explain some of the actual facts of the matter and give a bit of history of > >Road America because I practically grew up there as a teen. We have a LOT >of deer and other wildlife here in the US and deer are >especially populous >about everywhere, in every state. Tens of thousands are hit by autos on >highways every year. I don't remember any >racers ever hitting a deer at >Road America before, but many have been seen on or near the track for >decades. If there were any cases of a >deer actually being hit there, there >were probably no major injuries to any drivers. All I was trying to do was >to put it in perspective. There >are miles of fences at Road America, but >deer have a way of getting to where they want to go as is evidenced at many >other tracks who >also take precautions. If spectators can drive into the >circuit to watch a race I can guarantee that deer are going to get in too. >I hate to see >Da Matta in his present condition and have always liked him >as a driver. I hope and pray he will recover. I just cannot place blame on > >anyone for the incident. Call it an act of God or whatever you wish. I >just see it as a very unfortunate accident. > >Ed

Byron Forbes wrote:

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> > Is it REALLY that difficult? > > Think about all the measures in place for safety in motorsport these > days and now some bunch of bozos can't keep a deer off a race track!? > > Not good enough!

Stephan Johansson hit a deer at the Osterreichring, I guess Formula One is a bunch of bozos too? A guy was killed at Summit Point a few years back. It's not an easy thing to fool Mother Nature. Plus this was a test session, there were probably a few hundred people there in a wooded facility the size of a small city. Dr Ian Malcolm will tell you "Nature WILL find a way". Don McCorkle

> > Is it REALLY that difficult? You really don't get it do you: Yes it is. A couple of years ago there was a ground hog on the track during practice at the Montreal GP. It's an island surrounded by rapids in the middle of a city and they still can't totally eliminate them. Now a ground hog isn't a deer but 20-30lbs of rodent is going to do some serious damage. Elkhart lake is in the middle of rural no-where, deer population is going through a growth trend, they are smart, elusive and pervasive. Ask any hunter how hard it is to find deer. Ironically the fence and human activity likely does a good job of keeping out their main preditors (wolves, etc..) A 4 mile track has many square acres of forested infield that could support a deer population even if no more ever get in. Totally eliminating deer in WS is about as realistic eliminating landmines in the middle east, it's their natural environment, we're the interlopers. Suing the crap out of anybody responsible for anything is a great way to prevent anybody from volunteering for anything. eg. why would anybody volunteer to be a track marshal if they thought one mistake and some millionare will sue their family into bankrupcy.

Byron Forbes wrote:

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> Well, as far as I'm concerned, as you say, the problem has been known > about for years and still nothing has been done. There is a huge difference, > illegal speeding aside (which is their gamble anyway), between a road car > and a 200mph open wheeler where the driver has no protection around him. > With an event like this, the fencing should be checked beforehand and > patrolled for the entire event by security, not only for wildlife but kids > jumping fences, etc. As for the gates - same thing - security personel - > once again for the general reason of keeping out non payers AND also > wildlife. > > Is it REALLY that difficult? > > Think about all the measures in place for safety in motorsport these > days and now some bunch of bozos can't keep a deer off a race track!? > > Not good enough!

Get a grip! If the drivers don't worry about being able to crash into each other or a hard wall here and there, they should not start to worry about a frikkin' deer jumping on track, esp. as it happens very rarely. ronny

"mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > >> Is it REALLY that difficult? > > You really don't get it do you: Yes it is. A couple of years ago > there was a ground hog on the track during practice at the Montreal GP. > It's an island surrounded by rapids in the middle of a city and they > still can't totally eliminate them. Now a ground hog isn't a deer > but 20-30lbs of rodent is going to do some serious damage. > > Elkhart lake is in the middle of rural no-where, deer population is > going through a growth trend, they are smart, elusive and pervasive. > Ask any hunter how hard it is to find deer. Ironically the fence and > human activity likely does a good job of keeping out their main > preditors (wolves, etc..) A 4 mile track has many square acres of > forested infield that could support a deer population even if no more > ever get in. Totally eliminating deer in WS is about as realistic > eliminating landmines in the middle east, it's their natural > environment, we're the interlopers. > > Suing the crap out of anybody responsible for anything is a great way > to prevent anybody from volunteering for anything. eg. why would > anybody volunteer to be a track marshal if they thought one mistake and > some millionare will sue their family into bankrupcy. >

You are absolutely correct. All I was trying to get across is that, as unfortunate as this incident was, that it could happen virtually anywhere in the US (or world for that matter). I guess that you could have 20mi or so of 30ft high concrete fencing around the Road America complex (not exactly sure how much land is involved but much more than the track) and then fencing the infield (which would block spectator views) it may help a little. For people to try and police deer movement would be impossible to say the least. When I was a teen and racing there the deer population was probably less than now. They were still there but just like today when you have a full field of cars running, the deer avoid the track and disappear like they do during hunting season when the first shots are fired on opening morning. In WI, there are no natural predators to control deer population except man, with the exception of the far north where there is a small wolf population. Deer just have a way to get where they want to go no matter what man does. RA has not just been sitting around for 50yrs or so and not doing anything. They do have fencing now which they didn't in the early/mid 60s. This was a freak accident. I have never heard of any other injuries by deer in the history of the track in all of the many series' that have ran there over the last 40+ years. Ed

Have to jump in here as well. I worked for CART for a few years and Road America was one of our regular stops. I found that track to be the most secure....and anal about what goes on around track. As much as you plan to close every door, there is always something that could happen that you did not think of. Think of "chaos theory" in Jurassic Park. There is no such thing at 100% full proof in racing. Charlotte thought it was a very safe (for fans)until an IRL tire went up in the stands and killed 4 people in the early 2000s. I have met De-Matta a few times while working with the series and he is a very great guy....but holding Road America liable for the "deer incident" is stupid at best. "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:44ddc5ce$0$17544$[email hidden]... An interesting assertion ie that there is no difference between a hurricane and a deer. You are the manager of Elkhart Lake, right? FFS, you can't have it both ways - you're either stupid or deliberately irresponsible to save money - take your pick! Not only should there be litigation but those in charge should never again be allowed any position of responsibility in motorsport again. I'd even be happy to see them not allowed to operate a business ever again - a just punishment for a failure to apply proper OH&S procedures in the workplace which is probably the legal issue here. Da Matta is still in a coma and it is not known whether he will wake up or not. "B Wegner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... LOL, I guess we should be able to stop other acts of nature like tornadoes and hurricanes too......that damn mutha nature jus' outwit us here in the states ever' time. Damnit, maybe we should find somebody to sue for those too....... Get off the bong mate! -- Wag "God, Guns, & Guts keep America Free, let's keep all three!" "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:44dd0a57$0$17541$[email hidden]... Yes, I must admit that I have once again judged others by my own standards. To expect the typical human to be able to outwit a moose, deer, etc is a little silly I guess. Them some smart deer over there in 'merica.

"Ed Medlin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sn2Eg.6442$[email hidden]...

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> > You are absolutely correct. All I was trying to get across is that, as > unfortunate as this incident was, that it could happen virtually anywhere > in the US (or world for that matter). I guess that you could have 20mi or > so of 30ft high concrete fencing around the Road America complex (not > exactly sure how much land is involved but much more than the track) and > then fencing the infield (which would block spectator views) it may help a > little. For people to try and police deer movement would be impossible to > say the least. When I was a teen and racing there the deer population was > probably less than now. They were still there but just like today when you > have a full field of cars running, the deer avoid the track and disappear > like they do during hunting season when the first shots are fired on > opening morning. In WI, there are no natural predators to control deer > population except man, with the exception of the far north where there is > a small wolf population. Deer just have a way to get where they want to go > no matter what man does. RA has not just been sitting around for 50yrs or > so and not doing anything. They do have fencing now which they didn't in > the early/mid 60s. This was a freak accident. I have never heard of any > other injuries by deer in the history of the track in all of the many > series' that have ran there over the last 40+ years. > > Ed >

Sounds like a fair enough assessment. I suppose being a test, there were no marshalls, etc? I would guess that during official practice/qual/race that yellow flags would have solved this issue. It still makes me curious as to what the courts will do about this if it goes there. I was wondering especially about the Bathurst race here and kangaroos - talk about animals that are hard to contain. It is probably inevitable that something similar will happen at Bathurst with a kangaroo and since a lot of the track is public road also surrounded by many private propeties, fencing the necessary areas off might not be possible. It could be the end of all racing there!!!!!!!

> It still makes me curious as to what the courts will do about this if it > goes there. >Not sure why it would. "Motor racing is Dangerous" is printed on practically every spectator ticket, I suspect the driver's & teams entry licence is much more pointed with a couple of pages of legalise that will break down as: Sh*t happens, we'll do our best but you can't sue, sign here.

"mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>> It still makes me curious as to what the courts will do about this if >> it >> goes there. >> > Not sure why it would. > > "Motor racing is Dangerous" is printed on practically every spectator > ticket, I suspect the driver's & teams entry licence is much more > pointed with a couple of pages of legalise that will break down as: > Sh*t happens, we'll do our best but you can't sue, sign here. >

Yes, but deer on tracks is NOT motorsport. If someone within the track's confines was trampled to death by a moose, what would happen there? As you say - shit happens. What you seem to miss is that getting your arse dragged into court and sued off falls into the category of "shit happens" as well! :)

> As you say - shit happens. What you seem to miss is that getting your > arse dragged into court and sued off falls into the category of "shit > happens" as well! :) Hence the legalese to nip it in the bud up front for those who choose to participate.

Cristiano is making slow but steady progress. A short update here: http://www.damatta.com/ Wishing him a full and speedy recovery. Cheers Tony