OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

From: "Darf" <[email hidden]> Subject: Re: ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims Date: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 2:19 AM The guy at the computer store that I buy from, whose company is a certified MS dealership, told me this: Since MS started supplying the sticker with the serial number on it, this must be stuck on the P.C. that it is originally installed on. If it is not, then the copy of Windows is Illegally installed on the PC. He also said that the MS license states this, and also states that the OS cannot be reinstalled on another PC even if you format the drive on the original PC. He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail Version of XP. He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that it was installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold with that machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive of the machine that you are selling, and reinstall it on your new machine, but not any more. He gave me the example of a situation that arose with one of his customers. The customer had a PC stolen.The thieves did not steal the original Windows XP CD. The customer though that as far as MS were concerned, he was quite entitled to install the OS on his new PC that was supplied by the insurance company. The Computer Shop owner told him that according to the MS license, he was unable do so. The customer was understandably livid, and was told by the Shop owner to ring MS and ask them. The customer did so, and was told by MS that this was in fact the case. Please note that I have not read the MS license to see if this is actually stated within it. Please don't flame me for posting this as it is only what I have been told. I have known this guy for years, and he was very emphatic that this was the case. I can not believe that you can't legally do this. Can any MS dealers or Computer Techs etc confirm or deny this? If this is true, then I feel that this is another case of MS getting too Greedy. Darf "Jason Tennyson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:07:15 GMT, "Chris H." <[email hidden]> > wrote: > "If you get a new computer, you are entitled to remove Windows XP from > the one that is being junked, and install the same Windows XP on the > new machine - but you will have to do the reactivation by a voice call > and explain." > >

If this is true what is the key coomponet to a system for us that build our own? Is it the case? (thats what a sticker gets put on) We can change motherboards, chips, hard drives etc. So when is it changing systems? MadDAWG

But why shouldn't you be able to sell the PC, Format the hard drive and install the same copy on your new PC? That would be no different from me buying GPL every time I upgrade my P.C. and Papy forcing me to sell GPL with my old PC every I update my PC. This would mean that since I bought GPL in 1997 (I think). I would have had to buy it 5 Times. What about when buying a Music CD? You are basically buying the right to play the Music that is on that CD, for your own use, for the whole of your life, or until you decide to sell the CD. What if the record company said that every time you buy a new CD player, you have to sell the CD with the player and buy a new one for the new CD player? People would tell them where to get off. That is what they will start to do to MS via Piracy, if they do require you to keep scrapping the OS. The next thing I have heard is that MS are considering only leasing their OS to the consumer. We would have to phone MS yearly with our Credit card details, to pay for another 12 month subscription. We would then be given a code for reactivation. If this is true then it stinks of Greed. I already know a few people that would gladly pay for a Non restricted copy of XP home, but use the Pirated Copy of XP Pro from the Internet because they don't wish to have the activation headaches. MS should be encouraging the use of their genuine software by making it more convenient and user friendly, instead of being Greedy and making it a pain in the Butt to use. Darf "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:am76gf$34mta$[email hidden]... > You buy the license for installation on one single PC, so if your original > machine is stolen with the OS still on the HD, then this OS (with this > serial number) has already been installed on one PC, and hence must not be > installed on another. > > I wonder though whether if he'd submit the police report, MS wouldn'ttreat > this in a customer-friendly way. > > Achim

As I said in my original post: He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail Version of XP. Darf "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:am7brb$399et$[email hidden]... > Well I'm only guessing here and interpreting things as I understand them, > but I think what the dealer said with this referred to pre-installed > versions sold together with the hardware. These might be limited to the > hardware they're sold with.

Hey I have already talked to Microsoft's licensing/registration people... ABOUT WINDOWS XP. OEM means sold or bundled with hardware, technically Microsoft says that the software is bound to the hardware, so if the hardware goes up in smoke, so does your license. Now the upgrade and or full versions, the guy assured me that although it is more difficult to re register it on new HW, usually it is done. Another thing they told me is you can only transfer ownership 2 times. So as in My real life problem & scenario: I bought Retail Upgrade from a friend who hated it, and went back to SE, of course after registering it... So now, when I get ready to install this version on a new machine that wont be built now for a while, I have to call in to the Registration instead of online, plus they want me to fax a signed statement that my friend sold the copy to me and removed it from his machine... Add a wrinkle to this thing now, as I got divorced and separated the property (had to suit for my stuff) and the 'lil woman gave me the box but kept the contents of this particular OS set (XP HOME) & that the ID#s are already registered to my friend, as I had not changed it yet, and I have the letter he wrote me for it to fax in... LOL I will laugh my arse off when MS busts her arse with that and all the other illegal copies of stuff (from Microsoft) she has on that computer LOL! Or it will prove that all this registration Crap is nothing but CRAP. "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:am7brb$399et$[email hidden]...

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> "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3d872d79$0$18874$[email hidden]... > > But why shouldn't you be able to sell the PC, Format the hard drive and > > install the same copy on your new PC? > > Well I'm only guessing here and interpreting things as I understand them, > but I think what the dealer said with this referred to pre-installed > versions sold together with the hardware. These might be limited to the > hardware they're sold with. However, I also think that there are countries > where such a limitation is prohibited by law. > > I also don't think a version purchased separately could not be wiped from > one HD and then installed onto another. But as I said, I'm not a lawyer,

I'm > only telling you my private opinion. > > Achim > >

You buy the license for installation on one single PC, so if your original machine is stolen with the OS still on the HD, then this OS (with this serial number) has already been installed on one PC, and hence must not be installed on another. I wonder though whether if he'd submit the police report, MS wouldn't treat this in a customer-friendly way. Achim "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d87167b$0$18873$[email hidden]... > From: "Darf" <[email hidden]> > Subject: Re: ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims > Date: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 2:19 AM > > The guy at the computer store that I buy from, whose company is acertified

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> MS dealership, told me this: > Since MS started supplying the sticker with the serial number on it, this > must be stuck on the P.C. that it is originally installed on. > If it is not, then the copy of Windows is Illegally installed on the PC. > He also said that the MS license states this, and also states that the OS > cannot be reinstalled on another PC even if you format the drive on the > original PC. > He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail > Version of XP. He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that it

was > installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold withthat > machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive of the machinethat > you are selling, and reinstall it on your new machine, but not any more. > He gave me the example of a situation that arose with one of hiscustomers. > The customer had a PC stolen.The thieves did not steal the originalWindows > XP CD. The customer though that as far as MS were concerned, he was quite > entitled to install the OS on his new PC that was supplied by theinsurance > company. > The Computer Shop owner told him that according to the MS license, he was > unable do so. The customer was understandably livid, and was told by the > Shop owner to ring MS and ask them. The customer did so, and was told byMS > that this was in fact the case. > Please note that I have not read the MS license to see if this is actually > stated within it. Please don't flame me for posting this as it is onlywhat > I have been told. > I have known this guy for years, and he was very emphatic that this wasthe

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> case. > I can not believe that you can't legally do this. Can any MS dealers or > Computer Techs etc confirm or deny this? > If this is true, then I feel that this is another case of MS getting too > Greedy. > > Darf > > > "Jason Tennyson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:07:15 GMT, "Chris H." <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > "If you get a new computer, you are entitled to remove Windows XP from > > the one that is being junked, and install the same Windows XP on the > > new machine - but you will have to do the reactivation by a voice call > > and explain." > > > > > > >

I asked Michael ( the MS dealer ) the very same question. He said that it is the case of the machine, as that is what the sticker IS stuck to. I also asked him about this scenario: A Blinding flash comes out of your PC's power supply. You cannot get a replacement power supply that fits into the original case, this did happen to a friend of mine. So you get a new case, including a new power supply, and fit all of your original hardware into the new case. I asked if this means that you now have to buy a new copy of XP. He said, in Theory Yes, as you cannot remove the sticker and MS will not issue replacement stickers. In this case, going by what the license states, to do this is illegal, as there would be no sticker on the new case, no sticker means an illegal installation of XP. I know what you are all thinking.....Well if that happened to me, I would just run an illegal installation of XP and MS could get stuffed. Funny about that, my thoughts precisely :-) Darf "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > If this is true what is the key coomponet to a system for us that buildour > own? Is it the case? (thats what a sticker gets put on) We can change > motherboards, chips, hard drives etc. So when is it changing systems? > > MadDAWG > >

Might want to change the topic to 'Win XP Licensing Rights' as it has no sims content at all. Second, frankly I don't give a crap what they consider their licensing rights. If I bought the machine and the program came with it as far as I'm concerned I bought the program. I will install it on as many machines down the road as I see fit. Why? I bought it. that's like buying a car and keeping the wheels/tires and putting them on other cars. No law out there says you can't and realistically even if there was the odds of being prosecuted are nil. On the other hand, now that they supposedly have a sticker on every machine with a serial # anyone with a bootleg copy of the cd can now go in and copy it down then use it on their own machine. Smooth move M$FT.

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>The guy at the computer store that I buy from, whose company is a certified >MS dealership, told me this: >Since MS started supplying the sticker with the serial number on it, this >must be stuck on the P.C. that it is originally installed on. >If it is not, then the copy of Windows is Illegally installed on the PC. >He also said that the MS license states this, and also states that the OS >cannot be reinstalled on another PC even if you format the drive on the >original PC. >He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail >Version of XP. He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that it was >installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold with that >machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive of the machine that >you are selling, and reinstall it on your new machine, but not any more. >He gave me the example of a situation that arose with one of his customers. >The customer had a PC stolen.The thieves did not steal the original Windows >XP CD. The customer though that as far as MS were concerned, he was quite >entitled to install the OS on his new PC that was supplied by the insurance >company. >The Computer Shop owner told him that according to the MS license, he was >unable do so. The customer was understandably livid, and was told by the >Shop owner to ring MS and ask them. The customer did so, and was told by MS >that this was in fact the case. >Please note that I have not read the MS license to see if this is actually >stated within it. Please don't flame me for posting this as it is only what >I have been told. >I have known this guy for years, and he was very emphatic that this was the >case. >I can not believe that you can't legally do this. Can any MS dealers or >Computer Techs etc confirm or deny this? >If this is true, then I feel that this is another case of MS getting too >Greedy. > >Darf > > >"Jason Tennyson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:07:15 GMT, "Chris H." <[email hidden]> >> wrote: >> "If you get a new computer, you are entitled to remove Windows XP from >> the one that is being junked, and install the same Windows XP on the >> new machine - but you will have to do the reactivation by a voice call >> and explain." >> >> > >

While I'm not exactly sure of all of the legal issues of the EULA I can tell you that if you get a new pc you can call the WIA activation center and get that record updated to reflect the new pc's hardware. Now I don't know how many times this would work or any details on it but it's worked a couple times for me without issue. Mandrake 9.0 Rocks! Mitch BTW: Aside from the WIA stuff XP is the best product BillCo has come out with.. Darf wrote:

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> From: "Darf" <[email hidden]> > Subject: Re: ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims > Date: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 2:19 AM > > The guy at the computer store that I buy from, whose company is a certified > MS dealership, told me this: > Since MS started supplying the sticker with the serial number on it, this > must be stuck on the P.C. that it is originally installed on. > If it is not, then the copy of Windows is Illegally installed on the PC. > He also said that the MS license states this, and also states that the OS > cannot be reinstalled on another PC even if you format the drive on the > original PC. > He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail > Version of XP. He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that it was > installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold with that > machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive of the machine that > you are selling, and reinstall it on your new machine, but not any more. > He gave me the example of a situation that arose with one of his customers. > The customer had a PC stolen.The thieves did not steal the original Windows > XP CD. The customer though that as far as MS were concerned, he was quite > entitled to install the OS on his new PC that was supplied by the insurance > company. > The Computer Shop owner told him that according to the MS license, he was > unable do so. The customer was understandably livid, and was told by the > Shop owner to ring MS and ask them. The customer did so, and was told by MS > that this was in fact the case. > Please note that I have not read the MS license to see if this is actually > stated within it. Please don't flame me for posting this as it is only what > I have been told. > I have known this guy for years, and he was very emphatic that this was the > case. > I can not believe that you can't legally do this. Can any MS dealers or > Computer Techs etc confirm or deny this? > If this is true, then I feel that this is another case of MS getting too > Greedy. > > Darf > >

"Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote on 17 Sep 2002: > As I said in my original post: > He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full > Retail Version of XP. Maybe it's some weird Australian law - I'm *fairly* sure that reselling the *retail* version of XP is legal in the UK. -- The GPL Scrapyard: http://www.btinternet.com/~gplscrapyard (including the Kinlet Park circuit - currently in beta) Idiotic deep-linking restrictions: http://www.dontlink.com

"Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d872d79$0$18874$[email hidden]... > But why shouldn't you be able to sell the PC, Format the hard drive and > install the same copy on your new PC? Well I'm only guessing here and interpreting things as I understand them, but I think what the dealer said with this referred to pre-installed versions sold together with the hardware. These might be limited to the hardware they're sold with. However, I also think that there are countries where such a limitation is prohibited by law. I also don't think a version purchased separately could not be wiped from one HD and then installed onto another. But as I said, I'm not a lawyer, I'm only telling you my private opinion. Achim

Is there some form of copy protection that would PREVENT moving the OS to another system. I have never read a user agreement, I have never abided by the draconian terms there-in and I would NEVER not consider moving a product that I legally bought from one system to another. I buy the product, not the damn license. And if they want to sick their attack dog lawyers on me...I'll ring up the national media... (ps if you never here from me again, you'll know I was wrong..) :0 dave henrie

> He said that it is the case of the machine, as that is what the sticker IS > stuck to. Well all right then. I just won't stick any sticker on my case then. Altough the case is about the one thing I don't change very often. MadDAWG

"MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > If this is true what is the key coomponet to a system for us that buildour > own? Is it the case? (thats what a sticker gets put on) We can change > motherboards, chips, hard drives etc. So when is it changing systems? I think the "Activation" stuff in Windows lets you change 7 different parts before it kicks in and denies you access to your computer. The case and powersupply is not one of the hardware parts WindowsXP are able to keep track of. If you replace more then 7 parts that WindowsXP can track, I think you can call MS and have them "open up" your legal WindowsXP installation. If you trash your old PC and want to install on a new one, more then 7 parts will be different, and you will be unable to activate Windows XP. But there are way's around that, just as easy as a NOCD patch for any of your sims. I would worry about how the activation rubbish work, not the legal issues. I have never had any MS serial stickers on any of My PC's and I probably never will. Jone.

> (ps if you never here from me again, you'll know I was wrong..) I'll be next so if you disappear I'm outta here. MadDAWG

"Mitch Alatorre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eOHh9.170$[email hidden]... > > BTW: Aside from the WIA stuff XP is the best product BillCo has come > out with.. I don't know, I thought DOS 5.0 was the cat's meow at the time. ;)

David Buttery <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote on 17 Sep 2002: > >> As I said in my original post: >> He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full >> Retail Version of XP. > > Maybe it's some weird Australian law - I'm *fairly* sure that reselling > the *retail* version of XP is legal in the UK. >

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but there are two things I *think* apply in UK law at least. 1) such a restriction is unlawful 2) a contract with any unlawful elements in it is entirely void Having said that, even if the above were true, I don't have enough savings to get as far as the courtroom to begin explaining that Bill Gates is a thieving pirate and makes unlawful contracts. The best one I ever saw was the install disks for a HP tape drive- the envelope the disks were in had a disclaimer "by breaking this seal you agree to all the licensing terms and conditions in the end user license agreement." Guess where the EULA was? That's right- inside the envelope :) Get your 12 year old kid to buy windows for you, last I heard minors (at least under 13) can't be legally bound by contracts, including EULAs. cheers John

Two points, I didn't get any stickers with my XP Home upgrade and what's a 'license'! Andi. "Mitch Alatorre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eOHh9.170$[email hidden]...

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> While I'm not exactly sure of all of the legal issues of the EULA I can > tell you that if you get a new pc you can call the WIA activation center > and get that record updated to reflect the new pc's hardware. Now I > don't know how many times this would work or any details on it but it's > worked a couple times for me without issue. > > Mandrake 9.0 Rocks! > > > > Mitch > > BTW: Aside from the WIA stuff XP is the best product BillCo has come > out with.. > > > > Darf wrote: > > From: "Darf" <[email hidden]> > > Subject: Re: ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims > > Date: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 2:19 AM > > > > The guy at the computer store that I buy from, whose company is a

certified > > MS dealership, told me this: > > Since MS started supplying the sticker with the serial number on it,this > > must be stuck on the P.C. that it is originally installed on. > > If it is not, then the copy of Windows is Illegally installed on the PC. > > He also said that the MS license states this, and also states that theOS > > cannot be reinstalled on another PC even if you format the drive on the > > original PC. > > He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail > > Version of XP. He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that itwas > > installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold withthat > > machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive of the machinethat > > you are selling, and reinstall it on your new machine, but not any more. > > He gave me the example of a situation that arose with one of hiscustomers. > > The customer had a PC stolen.The thieves did not steal the originalWindows > > XP CD. The customer though that as far as MS were concerned, he wasquite > > entitled to install the OS on his new PC that was supplied by theinsurance > > company. > > The Computer Shop owner told him that according to the MS license, hewas > > unable do so. The customer was understandably livid, and was told by the > > Shop owner to ring MS and ask them. The customer did so, and was told byMS > > that this was in fact the case. > > Please note that I have not read the MS license to see if this isactually > > stated within it. Please don't flame me for posting this as it is onlywhat > > I have been told. > > I have known this guy for years, and he was very emphatic that this wasthe

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> > case. > > I can not believe that you can't legally do this. Can any MS dealers or > > Computer Techs etc confirm or deny this? > > If this is true, then I feel that this is another case of MS getting too > > Greedy. > > > > Darf > > > > >

"John Bull" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well, that's BS then. Those *rules* only apply to an OEM version of > XP. I can install my retail version of XP to any machine I own so long > as it is only installed to one machine at a time. When I originally > bought retail XP I installed it to an AMD system, I gutted that system > and it is now an Intel system. You can reactivate XP 6 times in a 6 > month period without having to call MSso in theory I can install it to > 6 completely different systems within 6 months so long as it is only > installed to one system and not multiple systems. This does not apply > to an *OEM* version of XP.

Do you have to "de activate" XP on the system you trash, or can you in theory install it on 6 systems and have them running at once? Braking the EULA of course, but the activation rubbish would not stop you? Jone.

One legit bought copy of Win XP Home Edition with sticker on the case. One copy of Win XP Activation Crack file. More than 7 computers running perfectly,most of them with SP1 update completed. AD

What if you format the drive? I routinely reformat and reinstall Win and Win-based products much more often than I change hardware. Has been that way for many years. I even had a MS support tech online who once told me he did the same thing to his box at least once a year. So, my question really would be, just how does XP know its been configured 6 times if the drive has been reformatted and XP is then 'reinstalled'. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "Jone Tytlandsvik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:am7lfv$3dhsm$[email hidden]... I think the "Activation" stuff in Windows lets you change 7 different parts before it kicks in and denies you access to your computer. The case and powersupply is not one of the hardware parts WindowsXP are able to keep track of. If you replace more then 7 parts that WindowsXP can track, I think you can call MS and have them "open up" your legal WindowsXP installation. If you trash your old PC and want to install on a new one, more then 7 parts will be different, and you will be unable to activate Windows XP. But there are way's around that, just as easy as a NOCD patch for any of your sims. I would worry about how the activation rubbish work, not the legal issues.

Have you read the license? Has your case got the sticker on it? If it has, and you are merely changing the cases components, you are in accordance with the license. As I said in my post, it only becomes an issue if you change the case. As the case is what the sticker is attached to. Michael is an accredited MS dealer, so you would think that he would know. He told me that it applies to oem and retail versions. You say that you can install XP to as many machines as you want. If this is the case, how do you remove an "unremovable" sticker, and restick it on another machine? The short answer is that you can't. Here lies the licence issue, if your machine does not have the MS sticker (that comes in the box of the retail version of XP as well ) stuck on the box, then you ARE in breach of the license. He says that MS will not replace the sticker, so how can you legally install XP on another machine, even if you delete it from the old machine's hard drive? If in doubt, contact MS yourself and post the results here so that we all know once and for all. Darf "John Bull" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well, that's BS then. Those *rules* only apply to an OEM version of > XP. I can install my retail version of XP to any machine I own so long > as it is only installed to one machine at a time. When I originally > bought retail XP I installed it to an AMD system, I gutted that system > and it is now an Intel system. You can reactivate XP 6 times in a 6 > month period without having to call MSso in theory I can install it to > 6 completely different systems within 6 months so long as it is only > installed to one system and not multiple systems. This does not apply > to an *OEM* version of XP.

Sticker is for oem installs...don't even bother....let's all move on

This post has never been about what you can do illegally :-) Darf "Andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:am823u$phb$[email hidden]...

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> One legit bought copy of Win XP Home Edition with sticker on the case. > > One copy of Win XP Activation Crack file. > > More than 7 computers running perfectly,most of them with SP1 update > completed. > > > AD > >

I know people (can't mention any names) that have 3 or 4 pc's running XP on every machine. Take a guess how many copies they purchased? Darf "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qiIh9.449300$me6.52644@sccrnsc01... > Is there some form of copy protection that would PREVENT moving the OSto > another system. I have never read a user agreement, I have never abidedby > the draconian terms there-in and I would NEVER not consider moving aproduct

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> that I legally bought from one system to another. I buy the product, not > the damn license. And if they want to sick their attack dog lawyers on > me...I'll ring up the national media... > (ps if you never here from me again, you'll know I was wrong..) :0 > dave henrie > >

Just stick the sticker on the case with blue tack. Has anyone read in the license that you can't? :-) Darf "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > He said that it is the case of the machine, as that is what the stickerIS > > stuck to. > > Well all right then. I just won't stick any sticker on my case then.Altough > the case is about the one thing I don't change very often. > > MadDAWG > >

JM <[email hidden]> wrote on 17 Sep 2002: <snip> > Get your 12 year old kid to buy windows for you, last I heard minors > (at least under 13) can't be legally bound by contracts, including > EULAs. IANAL etc etc, but here's the relevant law as it applies to England & Wales: http://www.xrefer.com/entry/464557 In summary, a minor (ie under 18) may make a valid contract for "necessaries" (eg clothes, though not if deemed "luxuries"). Any other contract made by the minor has no legal force (unless ratified when they come of age), unless the Minors Contract Act 1987 (which governs certain property transfers) applies. The Data Protection Act 1998 stipulates no minimum age for the collection of personal data, though, so if you see a "no under-13s" restriction on a British website, it's probably US-influenced, either because the British site is a subsidiary of a US one (eg Yahoo!) or because the Brits are obsessed with tryiong to ape Americans :-) -- The GPL Scrapyard: http://www.btinternet.com/~gplscrapyard (including the Kinlet Park circuit - currently in beta) Idiotic deep-linking restrictions: http://www.dontlink.com

Well in a way it does, as some simmers may want to comply with the law on this issue. As far as I know, 98 was not bound by this sticker crap. So we all know that if we are running XP, and are in the middle of trying to pick ourselves out of the trees on the back straight at France, there is a knock at the front door, you look out the window, only to see a MS van and some Fed looking guys out the front, then we know to run back inside and format C: on the other 2 machines without the stickers, before we open the door. Come to think of it, I might just write myself a Batch file named Feds.Bat or something, and put a shortcut to it on the Desktop. :-) "DragonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Might want to change the topic to 'Win XP Licensing Rights' as it has > no sims content at all. > Thats was my argument to Michael, his reply was this: When we pay the money for our XP CD, we are not "buying" the software. What we are doing is paying for the USE of Microsoft's software. Remember it is them that own it, not us. When we install XP, we "sign" the terms and conditions and we say that we agree to their conditions of how it is used. Part of this is the sticker thing. So it seems they have us by the balls. If you want I can email you the batch file :-) Darf If I bought the machine and the program came with it as far > as I'm concerned I bought the program. I will install it on as many > machines down the road as I see fit. Why? I bought it.

Had a great manual with it too !!!! :-) Darf "Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I don't know, I thought DOS 5.0 was the cat's meow at the time. ;) > > >

The sticker comes in the retail box of XP as well. Have a look. Same rules apply Darf "Conga" <?@?.com> wrote in message news:Y8Ph9.84608$[email hidden]... > Sticker is for oem installs...don't even bother....let's all move on > >

The answer is, if you format the drive, XP sees it as a new installation, this then requires re activation, the same as it did when you first installed it. The only way around this that I can see is if you Ghost the drive to a CD or another drive, after you have activated it. When the installation becomes too trashy then just copy the ghost back to the hard drive. This is how I do it. Saves a lot of work as well.The ghost copies across in about 15 minutes, you reboot the machine and away you go. For me to get to this stage doing a full reinstall from a clean format, will take me 2 nights. 2 nights that I could have been GPLing or LFSing :-) Darf "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vZNh9.51110$[email hidden]... What if you format the drive? I routinely reformat and reinstall Win and Win-based products much more often than I change hardware. Has been that way for many years. I even had a MS support tech online who once told me he did the same thing to his box at least once a year. So, my question really would be, just how does XP know its been configured 6 times if the drive has been reformatted and XP is then 'reinstalled'. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com

"Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d87c533$0$18873$[email hidden]... > Well in a way it does, as some simmers may want to comply with the law on > this issue. As far as I know, 98 was not bound by this sticker crap. > So we all know that if we are running XP, and are in the middle of tryingto > pick ourselves out of the trees on the back straight at France, You can make it past the hairpin? Oh crap now I gotta go practice some more...... dave henrie

You can make it past the hairpin? Oh ***now I gotta go practice some more...... dave henrie

The EULA has been nearly unchanged since Win3.x. The difference is WIA. Mitch Darf wrote:

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> Well in a way it does, as some simmers may want to comply with the law on > this issue. As far as I know, 98 was not bound by this sticker crap. > So we all know that if we are running XP, and are in the middle of trying to > pick ourselves out of the trees on the back straight at France, there is a > knock at the front door, > you look out the window, only to see a MS van and some Fed looking guys out > the front, then we know to run back inside and format C: on the other 2 > machines without the stickers, before we open the door. > Come to think of it, I might just write myself a Batch file named Feds.Bat > or something, and put a shortcut to it on the Desktop. :-) > > > "DragonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >>Might want to change the topic to 'Win XP Licensing Rights' as it has >>no sims content at all. >> > > > Thats was my argument to Michael, his reply was this: > When we pay the money for our XP CD, we are not "buying" the software. > What we are doing is paying for the USE of Microsoft's software. Remember it > is them that own it, not us. > When we install XP, we "sign" the terms and conditions and we say that we > agree to their conditions of how it is used. Part of this is the sticker > thing. > So it seems they have us by the balls. > If you want I can email you the batch file :-) > > Darf > > If I bought the machine and the program came with it as far > >>as I'm concerned I bought the program. I will install it on as many >>machines down the road as I see fit. Why? I bought it. > > >

In article <3d873c72$0$18871$[email hidden]>, "Darf" <[email hidden]> writes: >In this case, going by what the license states, to do this is illegal, as >there would be no sticker on the new case, no sticker means an illegal >installation of XP. Who gives a flip about the sticker? No one is gonna see it except YOU, if you work on your own systems... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.03 N2002 Rank:+20.124 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, JM <[email hidden]> writes: >The best one I ever saw was the install disks for a HP tape drive- the >envelope the disks were in had a disclaimer "by breaking this seal you >agree to all the licensing terms and conditions in the end user license >agreement." Guess where the EULA was? That's right- inside the envelope :) They got that from IBM... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.03 N2002 Rank:+20.124 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Who do I complain to. I never got a sticker with my copy of XP Home "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d87c62d$0$18873$[email hidden]...

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> The sticker comes in the retail box of XP as well. Have a look. > Same rules apply > > Darf > > "Conga" <?@?.com> wrote in message > news:Y8Ph9.84608$[email hidden]... > > Sticker is for oem installs...don't even bother....let's all move on > > > > > >

No one gives a flip about the sticker. But the whole point of the post was what is legal and what is not. No sticker according to the license means that you can face court if they catch you....that's all. Darf "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <3d873c72$0$18871$[email hidden]>, "Darf" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > Who gives a flip about the sticker? No one is gonna see it except YOU, ifyou > work on your own systems... > > Eldred

Where did you get the copy of XP from? Darf "Ricky Polinski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hBWh9.18079$[email hidden]... > Who do I complain to. I never got a sticker with my copy of XP Home

This is _partially_ correct. You are correct in saying that OEM copies are glued to the activated machine. Forever. They can never be transferred. However, Off-The-Shelf RETAIL versions can be transferred to a new computer as long as it is removed from the previous computer completely. You will, of course, have to call Microsoft at it's activation number because when you try to activate over the Internet it will fail due to the hardware change. FYI..., you don't even have to change hardware to have WPA take your system down. I've had to re-activate my LEGAL copy FIVE times so far, and twice it was just for simple driver updates. No hardware was changed out at all. WPA is not as benign as they make it out to be so if you are travelling on the road with a Laptop and XP, don't touch anything even remotely related to hardware, including the drivers (especially NIC drivers). -Larry "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d87167b$0$18873$[email hidden]... > From: "Darf" <[email hidden]> > Subject: Re: ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims > Date: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 2:19 AM > > The guy at the computer store that I buy from, whose company is acertified

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> MS dealership, told me this: > Since MS started supplying the sticker with the serial number on it, this > must be stuck on the P.C. that it is originally installed on. > If it is not, then the copy of Windows is Illegally installed on the PC. > He also said that the MS license states this, and also states that the OS > cannot be reinstalled on another PC even if you format the drive on the > original PC. > He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail > Version of XP. He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that it

was > installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold withthat > machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive of the machinethat > you are selling, and reinstall it on your new machine, but not any more. > He gave me the example of a situation that arose with one of hiscustomers. > The customer had a PC stolen.The thieves did not steal the originalWindows > XP CD. The customer though that as far as MS were concerned, he was quite > entitled to install the OS on his new PC that was supplied by theinsurance > company. > The Computer Shop owner told him that according to the MS license, he was > unable do so. The customer was understandably livid, and was told by the > Shop owner to ring MS and ask them. The customer did so, and was told byMS > that this was in fact the case. > Please note that I have not read the MS license to see if this is actually > stated within it. Please don't flame me for posting this as it is onlywhat > I have been told. > I have known this guy for years, and he was very emphatic that this wasthe

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> case. > I can not believe that you can't legally do this. Can any MS dealers or > Computer Techs etc confirm or deny this? > If this is true, then I feel that this is another case of MS getting too > Greedy. > > Darf > > > "Jason Tennyson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:07:15 GMT, "Chris H." <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > "If you get a new computer, you are entitled to remove Windows XP from > > the one that is being junked, and install the same Windows XP on the > > new machine - but you will have to do the reactivation by a voice call > > and explain." > > > > > > >

On Tue, 17 Sep 2002 23:26:29 +1000, Darf wrote: > But why shouldn't you be able to sell the PC, Format the hard drive and > install the same copy on your new PC? Because MS would miss out on their PC tax if this was allowed, simple as that. They hate vendors that sell naked PC's with a passion and have everybody else (all the big PC vendors) on a short leash by matter of their "bulk licensing" agreements. It's about time people woke up and started looking for alternatives to the monopoly... Cheers, Uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

I've never known Microsoft to be very customer friendly. At least after the money is taken. -Larry "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:am76gf$34mta$[email hidden]... > You buy the license for installation on one single PC, so if your original > machine is stolen with the OS still on the HD, then this OS (with this > serial number) has already been installed on one PC, and hence must not be > installed on another. > > I wonder though whether if he'd submit the police report, MS wouldn'ttreat

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> this in a customer-friendly way. > > Achim > > > "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3d87167b$0$18873$[email hidden]... > > From: "Darf" <[email hidden]> > > Subject: Re: ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims > > Date: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 2:19 AM > > > > The guy at the computer store that I buy from, whose company is a > certified > > MS dealership, told me this: > > Since MS started supplying the sticker with the serial number on it,

this > > must be stuck on the P.C. that it is originally installed on. > > If it is not, then the copy of Windows is Illegally installed on the PC. > > He also said that the MS license states this, and also states that theOS

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> > cannot be reinstalled on another PC even if you format the drive on the > > original PC. > > He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail > > Version of XP. He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that it > was > > installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold with > that > > machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive of the machine > that > > you are selling, and reinstall it on your new machine, but not any more. > > He gave me the example of a situation that arose with one of his > customers. > > The customer had a PC stolen.The thieves did not steal the original > Windows > > XP CD. The customer though that as far as MS were concerned, he was

quite > > entitled to install the OS on his new PC that was supplied by the > insurance > > company. > > The Computer Shop owner told him that according to the MS license, hewas > > unable do so. The customer was understandably livid, and was told by the > > Shop owner to ring MS and ask them. The customer did so, and was told by > MS > > that this was in fact the case. > > Please note that I have not read the MS license to see if this isactually

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> > stated within it. Please don't flame me for posting this as it is only > what > > I have been told. > > I have known this guy for years, and he was very emphatic that this was > the > > case. > > I can not believe that you can't legally do this. Can any MS dealers or > > Computer Techs etc confirm or deny this? > > If this is true, then I feel that this is another case of MS getting too > > Greedy. > > > > Darf > > > > > > "Jason Tennyson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:07:15 GMT, "Chris H." <[email hidden]> > > > wrote: > > > "If you get a new computer, you are entitled to remove Windows XP from > > > the one that is being junked, and install the same Windows XP on the > > > new machine - but you will have to do the reactivation by a voice call > > > and explain." > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Uwe, I agree, I just choose something besides Linux, though Unix in design. MacOS X 10 of course. But, it 's still not my primary machine. I have 7 computers in use at home. Two Win2K Servers, a Win2K Laptop, a WinXP Desktop, a G4 LCD iMac, an old PowerMac 8100 and an old Macintosh Duo 280. To be honest, I don't know why I keep the two old Mac's. It's more of a nostalgia thing :) I use the G4 iMac for most Graphics work using Canvas 8 and APE2. Most of my Car was done on the iMac. I also use it as my music center (I ran the output to the input on my XP TBSC card, so it will play out through the Klipsch ProMedia 5.1's) because I really dig iTunes. I do have a couple of Linux Distro's running, but they are running under VirtualPC on the PC and don't have their own machines. -Larry "Uwe Schuerkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 17 Sep 2002 23:26:29 +1000, Darf wrote: > > But why shouldn't you be able to sell the PC, Format the hard drive and > > install the same copy on your new PC? > > Because MS would miss out on their PC tax if this was allowed, > simple as that. They hate vendors that sell naked PC's with a > passion and have everybody else (all the big PC vendors) on a > short leash by matter of their "bulk licensing" agreements. > > It's about time people woke up and started looking for > alternatives to the monopoly... > > Cheers, > > Uwe > > > > > -- > mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) > Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ > Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) > GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

That is fine, but how can you be in line with the license, if you can't get the sticker off the old box, and MS won't issue you with another one? Even if you get the retail version, you still have to put the sticker on the PC to comply with the license. Darf "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b2%h9.68830$[email hidden]... > This is _partially_ correct. > However, Off-The-Shelf RETAIL versions can be transferred to a newcomputer > as long as it is removed from the previous computer completely.

Just attach the label to a magnet and move it to the appropriate PC ;-) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d87c62d$0$18873$[email hidden]... > The sticker comes in the retail box of XP as well. Have a look. > Same rules apply > > Darf > > "Conga" <?@?.com> wrote in message > news:Y8Ph9.84608$[email hidden]... > > Sticker is for oem installs...don't even bother....let's all move on > > > > > >

"Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:3d87bec1$0$18875$[email hidden]: > machine, even if you delete it from the old machine's hard drive? > If in doubt, contact MS yourself and post the results here so that we > all know once and for all. The guy who came to give some training at our work was telling us about Microsoft- his company had become "approved Microsoft solution partners" or some such nonsense, the upshot being they had access to more licenses for upgraded versions of MS apps etc. He tried, therefore, to sell an unused, "shrink wrapped" copy of an old version of back office on eBay, and got a call from MS lawyers shortly after. What I do know under UK law, is that if I buy a product which is carried on a physical medium (ie any software which is not downloaded from the supplier, but sent on disc, cd etc) I am legally entitled to sell it on- unused software on CDs does not involve EULAs, it's just hardware. Of course, the law doesn't apply to MS, they could/would easily remove the company from their "scheme" for no legal reason anyway.

I don't give a rats ass about a sticker :) I have an original CD, a receipt, and a phone number to call to re-activate if I need to. And my Retail box of XP Home did not have any sticker in the box. The S/N was affixed to the cardboard holder the CD was in. -Larry "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d8885bf$0$18872$[email hidden]... > That is fine, but how can you be in line with the license, if you can'tget > the sticker off the old box, and MS won't issue you with another one? > Even if you get the retail version, you still have to put the sticker onthe

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> PC to comply with the license. > > Darf > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:b2%h9.68830$[email hidden]... > > This is _partially_ correct. > > > However, Off-The-Shelf RETAIL versions can be transferred to a new > computer > > as long as it is removed from the previous computer completely. > > >

Are you saying the initial install requires an initial 'activation' ? -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d87c885$0$18875$[email hidden]... The answer is, if you format the drive, XP sees it as a new installation, this then requires re activation, the same as it did when you first installed it. The only way around this that I can see is if you Ghost the drive to a CD or another drive, after you have activated it. When the installation becomes too trashy then just copy the ghost back to the hard drive. This is how I do it. Saves a lot of work as well.The ghost copies across in about 15 minutes, you reboot the machine and away you go. For me to get to this stage doing a full reinstall from a clean format, will take me 2 nights. 2 nights that I could have been GPLing or LFSing :-) Darf "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vZNh9.51110$[email hidden]... What if you format the drive? I routinely reformat and reinstall Win and Win-based products much more often than I change hardware. Has been that way for many years. I even had a MS support tech online who once told me he did the same thing to his box at least once a year. So, my question really would be, just how does XP know its been configured 6 times if the drive has been reformatted and XP is then 'reinstalled'. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com

Yes, the initial install requires activation otherwise it will stop you from using it after a set time period Darf "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iubi9.31579$[email hidden]... Are you saying the initial install requires an initial 'activation' ?

Yea, I read more about it. Looks like MS is backing off on some of its WPA requirements. There is also some pretty neat hacks out there for it. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d897002$0$18871$[email hidden]... Yes, the initial install requires activation otherwise it will stop you from using it after a set time period Darf "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iubi9.31579$[email hidden]... Are you saying the initial install requires an initial 'activation' ?

Yep. -Larry "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iubi9.31579$[email hidden]... Are you saying the initial install requires an initial 'activation' ? -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d87c885$0$18875$[email hidden]... The answer is, if you format the drive, XP sees it as a new installation, this then requires re activation, the same as it did when you first installed it. The only way around this that I can see is if you Ghost the drive to a CD or another drive, after you have activated it. When the installation becomes too trashy then just copy the ghost back to the hard drive. This is how I do it. Saves a lot of work as well.The ghost copies across in about 15 minutes, you reboot the machine and away you go. For me to get to this stage doing a full reinstall from a clean format, will take me 2 nights. 2 nights that I could have been GPLing or LFSing :-) Darf "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vZNh9.51110$[email hidden]... What if you format the drive? I routinely reformat and reinstall Win and Win-based products much more often than I change hardware. Has been that way for many years. I even had a MS support tech online who once told me he did the same thing to his box at least once a year. So, my question really would be, just how does XP know its been configured 6 times if the drive has been reformatted and XP is then 'reinstalled'. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com

Not much :) In fact they instituted a major crack-down (no pun intended) with the Service Pack 1 release. -Larry "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eqni9.55261$[email hidden]... Yea, I read more about it. Looks like MS is backing off on some of its WPA requirements. There is also some pretty neat hacks out there for it. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d897002$0$18871$[email hidden]... Yes, the initial install requires activation otherwise it will stop you from using it after a set time period Darf "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iubi9.31579$[email hidden]... Are you saying the initial install requires an initial 'activation' ?

In article <3d887781$0$18871$[email hidden]>, "Darf" <[email hidden]> writes: >No one gives a flip about the sticker. >But the whole point of the post was what is legal and what is not. >No sticker according to the license means that you can face court if they >catch you....that's all. > I was just going on the basis of "How are they gonna CATCH you...?" Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.03 N2002 Rank:+20.124 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Of course 5 or 6 for having spare if needed JensSchumi On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 09:50:32 +1000, "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I know people (can't mention any names) that have 3 or 4 pc's running XP on >every machine. >Take a guess how many copies they purchased? > >Darf > >

--------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://jensschumi.bravepages.com/ GPLRank: -14.82 Monsters of GPL: sub 95

If you build your own machines and install the Original Equipment Manufacturer ( OEM ) version of XP or the full retail version for that matter, weather you like it or not you are legally bound by the EULA. You do know what the EULA is right? You electronically sign it when you install the OS. So when the Microsoft van pulls up out the front of your place, accompanied by 3 or 4 Fed looking guys, Just tell them that you are not bound by the EULA because you build your own P.C.s . They will all laugh so hard they will wet their pants as they cart you away. Darf "John Bull" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> No my case does not have a sticker on it. I build my own PC's and > therefore am not bound by any stupid OEM license. >You and your pal > Michael need to learn the difference between an OEM license and the > retail version of XP. The licenses are not the same. OEM XP is only > allowed to be used on the machine it was originally installed to. You > do know what OEM means right?

What the hell does this discussion have to do with the merits of XP versus 98se in regards to sims?? "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d87167b$0$18873$[email hidden]... > From: "Darf" <[email hidden]> > Subject: Re: ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims > Date: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 2:19 AM > > The guy at the computer store that I buy from, whose company is acertified

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> MS dealership, told me this: > Since MS started supplying the sticker with the serial number on it, this > must be stuck on the P.C. that it is originally installed on. > If it is not, then the copy of Windows is Illegally installed on the PC. > He also said that the MS license states this, and also states that the OS > cannot be reinstalled on another PC even if you format the drive on the > original PC. > He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail > Version of XP. He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that it

was > installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold withthat > machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive of the machinethat > you are selling, and reinstall it on your new machine, but not any more. > He gave me the example of a situation that arose with one of hiscustomers. > The customer had a PC stolen.The thieves did not steal the originalWindows > XP CD. The customer though that as far as MS were concerned, he was quite > entitled to install the OS on his new PC that was supplied by theinsurance > company. > The Computer Shop owner told him that according to the MS license, he was > unable do so. The customer was understandably livid, and was told by the > Shop owner to ring MS and ask them. The customer did so, and was told byMS > that this was in fact the case. > Please note that I have not read the MS license to see if this is actually > stated within it. Please don't flame me for posting this as it is onlywhat > I have been told. > I have known this guy for years, and he was very emphatic that this wasthe

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> case. > I can not believe that you can't legally do this. Can any MS dealers or > Computer Techs etc confirm or deny this? > If this is true, then I feel that this is another case of MS getting too > Greedy. > > Darf > > > "Jason Tennyson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:07:15 GMT, "Chris H." <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > "If you get a new computer, you are entitled to remove Windows XP from > > the one that is being junked, and install the same Windows XP on the > > new machine - but you will have to do the reactivation by a voice call > > and explain." > > > > > > >

In article <BIvi9.4226$gA4.351@sccrnsc02>, "Aibhne � hAimhirg�n" <[email hidden]> writes: > >What the hell does this discussion have to do with the merits of XP versus >98se in regards to sims?? There AREN'T any merits, so they made their own discussion...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.03 N2002 Rank:+20.124 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <3d87167b$0$18873$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that it was > installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold > with that machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive > of the machine that you are selling, and reinstall it on your new > machine, but not any more. Tying OEM version of Windows to a single machine is not something new with XP, it has been around probably since Win95. If you're running Win98, have a look in C:\windows for 'license.txt', and then look for the section on 'Software Product Transfer'. Compared to MS habit of changing the EULA with security patches where unless you accept the changes, you cannot apply the patches, tying OEM Windows to a single machine is actually a fairly benign aspect of their licensing practices. As for product activation in XP, there are basically 3 different versions. Corporate volume licenses have no WPA. OEM licenses used by likes of Dell and Gateway have WPA tied to the mobo bios, in 'retail OEM' and retail versions, WPA is tied to 10 components, they are CPU id, CPU type, IDE and SCSI controllers, video card, RAM size, HDD, HDD volume number, CD and NIC MAC, When determining if the system components have changed enough to require reactivation each of the 10 components has 1 vote, except the NIC which counts for 3. For desktop systems, you need to have 7 matching votes to avoid reactivation, for laptops, you need only 4. All the information is kept in a single encrypted file, if you lose that file, you will have to reactivate and changes are cumulative until reactivation is needed, then the profile is reset to the new configuration. MS has said that they'd only keep each individual activation id for 6 months, so in theory, you can install XP in a different machine every 6 months and it'll have no problem with activation. However, I've only seen this feature reported in the press and have not seen any documentation from MS on it. SP1 brought along a few changes to WPA, such as the 3 days grace period for reactivation, and including the full product key in the activation id. This latter feature, along with the new Windows Update (v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com) site for XP and Win2000 which collects Plug & Play ID numbers of hardware devices, gives MS the capability to profoundly change the activation process. So, in answer to your question, Win98SE is definitely much better for sims.

Well, for someone who tries to follow the laws and rules, more or less restrictive EULAs and other rules and regulations can affect the usability of an OS or other software for his purposes, and can make one OS (with a less restrictive or clearer EULA) better suited for his purposes than another one (with a more restrictive or less understandable EULA). And this can even differ according to national law, which unfortunately the EULA often does not reflect, leaving more uncertainty for those users who try to do every in a legally correct way. If someone who likes to modify his system hardware a lot must worry that the EULA would prevent him from doing what he needs to do with his OS, then of course that's interesting for him. Since many simmers tend to keep their hardware pretty much updated all the time as they want and need the best computing power for their sims, I think this discussion is indeed useful to get a clearer view of what's possible or not, and potential risks or implications one might not have noticed yet. Especially since all this really isn't always that easy to understand. I'm reading it with interest. Achim "Aibhne � hAimhirg�n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BIvi9.4226$gA4.351@sccrnsc02... > What the hell does this discussion have to do with the merits of XP versus > 98se in regards to sims??

Very interesting reading Darf "Ming" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <3d87167b$0$18873$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > Tying OEM version of Windows to a single machine is not something new > with XP, it has been around probably since Win95. If you're running > Win98, have a look in C:\windows for 'license.txt', and then look for > the section on 'Software Product Transfer'. > > Compared to MS habit of changing the EULA with security patches where > unless you accept the changes, you cannot apply the patches, tying OEM > Windows to a single machine is actually a fairly benign aspect of > their licensing practices. > > As for product activation in XP, there are basically 3 different > versions. Corporate volume licenses have no WPA. OEM licenses used > by likes of Dell and Gateway have WPA tied to the mobo bios, in > 'retail OEM' and retail versions, WPA is tied to 10 components, > they are CPU id, CPU type, IDE and SCSI controllers, video card, RAM > size, HDD, HDD volume number, CD and NIC MAC, > > When determining if the system components have changed enough to > require reactivation each of the 10 components has 1 vote, except the > NIC which counts for 3. For desktop systems, you need to have 7 > matching votes to avoid reactivation, for laptops, you need only 4. > > All the information is kept in a single encrypted file, if you lose > that file, you will have to reactivate and changes are cumulative > until reactivation is needed, then the profile is reset to the new > configuration. > > MS has said that they'd only keep each individual activation id for 6 > months, so in theory, you can install XP in a different machine every > 6 months and it'll have no problem with activation. However, I've > only seen this feature reported in the press and have not seen any > documentation from MS on it. > > SP1 brought along a few changes to WPA, such as the 3 days grace > period for reactivation, and including the full product key in the > activation id. This latter feature, along with the new Windows Update > (v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com) site for XP and Win2000 which > collects Plug & Play ID numbers of hardware devices, gives MS the > capability to profoundly change the activation process. > > So, in answer to your question, Win98SE is definitely much better for > sims. >

I am still debating this issue with Michael. He tells me that from past experience, he can phone MS 3 times in one day and get 3 different opinions from 3 different people on a licensing issue. He told me to phone MS myself and try it, so I did. I spoke to a girl and she told me the following regarding the issues surrounding this post........ She told me that with OEM, the copy of XP has to stay with the Hardware. She said that you may sell the PC with the OEM copy of XP. I asked her if the sticker has to be stuck to the PC, she stated : No, some dealers stick it to the box so that you dont loose the Serial Number, but they don't have to stick it on the box, they should however supply the sticker with the PC. Now Michael insists that he has been sent documentation from MS stating that the sticker must be stuck on the box, if not, the Dealer is in breach of the MS license. So who is right? As far as the Retail Version goes, she said that you can transfer it to a new PC as long as you format the old machines drive. I throw my hands in the air Darf

Darf wrote: > > Now Michael insists that he has been sent documentation from MS stating that > the sticker must be stuck on the box, if not, the Dealer is in breach of the > MS license. So who is right? Michael is, OEM manuacturers *have* to stick the label on the box, pure and simple, it even used to be that you had to stick it on the front/top of the box where it was clearly visible, we are now allowed to put it on the side all the way in the back where it's less obvious It's a HUGE process returning stickers which has ended up on the wrong PC and stuff like that, OEM manufacturers have to report all these things back to MS, and if you keep coming up with huge discrepancies as to how many stickers licenses of each you've distributed or returned for whatever reason, you're in trouble with Bill, you don't get much leeway in this respect As to whether or not the license follows the HD or the Box itself, I'm not 100% sure on that as we've never had to deal with this problem ourselves, we *did have a PC here that had WinXP home installed but came with a XP PRO sticker, and it was very clear rules as to how it should be handled Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

You are correct, John. -Larry "John Bull" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:48:57 +1000, "Darf" <[email hidden]> > Maybe things are different in Ozzie land but over here there is no > EULA stating that I can't transfer my *RETAIL* copy of WinXP to a new > machine. So long as it is not installed on more than one machine at a > time it is perfectly legal. The courts would laugh it down if that was > the case. One last time - OEM is not the same as retail! You think MS > expects me to buy a new copy of XP everytime I buy a new computer > case? Mwahaha.

Good point, actually :) -Larry "Aibhne � hAimhirg�n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BIvi9.4226$gA4.351@sccrnsc02...

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> What the hell does this discussion have to do with the merits of XP versus > 98se in regards to sims?? > > > "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3d87167b$0$18873$[email hidden]... > > From: "Darf" <[email hidden]> > > Subject: Re: ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims > > Date: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 2:19 AM > > > > The guy at the computer store that I buy from, whose company is a > certified > > MS dealership, told me this: > > Since MS started supplying the sticker with the serial number on it,

this > > must be stuck on the P.C. that it is originally installed on. > > If it is not, then the copy of Windows is Illegally installed on the PC. > > He also said that the MS license states this, and also states that theOS

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> > cannot be reinstalled on another PC even if you format the drive on the > > original PC. > > He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail > > Version of XP. He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that it > was > > installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold with > that > > machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive of the machine > that > > you are selling, and reinstall it on your new machine, but not any more. > > He gave me the example of a situation that arose with one of his > customers. > > The customer had a PC stolen.The thieves did not steal the original > Windows > > XP CD. The customer though that as far as MS were concerned, he was

quite > > entitled to install the OS on his new PC that was supplied by the > insurance > > company. > > The Computer Shop owner told him that according to the MS license, hewas > > unable do so. The customer was understandably livid, and was told by the > > Shop owner to ring MS and ask them. The customer did so, and was told by > MS > > that this was in fact the case. > > Please note that I have not read the MS license to see if this isactually

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> > stated within it. Please don't flame me for posting this as it is only > what > > I have been told. > > I have known this guy for years, and he was very emphatic that this was > the > > case. > > I can not believe that you can't legally do this. Can any MS dealers or > > Computer Techs etc confirm or deny this? > > If this is true, then I feel that this is another case of MS getting too > > Greedy. > > > > Darf > > > > > > "Jason Tennyson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:07:15 GMT, "Chris H." <[email hidden]> > > > wrote: > > > "If you get a new computer, you are entitled to remove Windows XP from > > > the one that is being junked, and install the same Windows XP on the > > > new machine - but you will have to do the reactivation by a voice call > > > and explain." > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I don't understand the problem here. This is absolutely accurate. I would have no doubts that Microsoft has a provision in it's OEM DEALER LICENSE that directs them to put the sticker on the computer. Every IBM ThinkPad I've seen lately has had the sticker. But that does not translate, necessarily, to the end-user. I see it as no different than the pillow-tag deal... -Larry "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d8b0631$0$18872$[email hidden]...

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> I am still debating this issue with Michael. > He tells me that from past experience, he can phone MS 3 times in one day > and get 3 different opinions from 3 different people on a licensing issue. > He told me to phone MS myself and try it, so I did. > I spoke to a girl and she told me the following regarding the issues > surrounding this post........ > She told me that with OEM, the copy of XP has to stay with the Hardware. > She said that you may sell the PC with the OEM copy of XP. > I asked her if the sticker has to be stuck to the PC, she stated : No,

some > dealers stick it to the box so that you dont loose the Serial Number, but > they don't have to stick it on the box, they should however supply the > sticker with the PC. > Now Michael insists that he has been sent documentation from MS statingthat > the sticker must be stuck on the box, if not, the Dealer is in breach ofthe

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> MS license. So who is right? > As far as the Retail Version goes, she said that you can transfer it to a > new PC as long as you format the old machines drive. > > I throw my hands in the air > > Darf > > >

Looks like you are correct. Just remember, this was all started by what somebody from MS told Michael, ( an authorised MS dealer ). The MS girl that I spoke to also said that the sticker does not have to be stuck on the PC by the dealer. Yet Michael has been sent Documentation from MS that it does. So you tell me, who is he supposed to believe? Microsoft or Microsoft? Darf "John Bull" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Isn't that exactly what I told you? She is right and Michael is wrong.

Darf wrote:

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> > Looks like you are correct. Just remember, this was all started by what > somebody from MS told Michael, ( an authorised MS dealer ). > The MS girl that I spoke to also said that the sticker does not have to be > stuck on the PC by the dealer. Yet Michael has been sent Documentation from > MS that it does. So you tell me, who is he supposed to believe? > Microsoft or Microsoft? > > Darf > > "John Bull" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > Isn't that exactly what I told you? She is right and Michael is wrong.

Trust written documentation over a phone conversation...... OEM manufacturers HAVE to put the sticker on the box, there are a lot of rules and regulations that apply to OEM manufacturers that end users don't have to worry about Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy <--licensed OEM manufacturer......small time :-) "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

Larry wrote:

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> > I don't understand the problem here. This is absolutely accurate. > > I would have no doubts that Microsoft has a provision in it's OEM DEALER > LICENSE that directs them to put the sticker on the computer. > > Every IBM ThinkPad I've seen lately has had the sticker. > > But that does not translate, necessarily, to the end-user.

Correct sir, you win a cookie Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

In article <3d8b0631$0$18872$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > I throw my hands in the air > As an end user, I wouldn't worry too much about the EULA fine prints because first, MS can change them whenever it suits them, and second, courts have in the past disregarded them because they are forced upon the user after they've bought the product, hence the push for UCITA in the USA and the use of WPA in XP. Here's some info on UCITA if you're interested. www.infoworld.com/articles/uc/xml/02/01/03/020103ucwhatis.xml With WPA, MS have an easy way of enforcing the terms and conditions of the EULA according to their interpretation and their needs, if you believe that MS will not change the rules for reactivation once non- WPA Windows are no longer available or when they have a new version to sell, I have a copy of Racing Legends here waiting for you. </joke> [Legal Disclaimer] I am not a lawyer, I just drive as if I'm chasing ambulances.

Very interesting reading........ BTW most people's signatures shit me.......yours is actually quite funny Darf "Ming" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <3d8b0631$0$18872$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > > I throw my hands in the air > > > > As an end user, I wouldn't worry too much about the EULA fine prints > because first, MS can change them whenever it suits them, and second, > courts have in the past disregarded them because they are forced upon > the user after they've bought the product, hence the push for UCITA in > the USA and the use of WPA in XP. > > Here's some info on UCITA if you're interested. > www.infoworld.com/articles/uc/xml/02/01/03/020103ucwhatis.xml > > With WPA, MS have an easy way of enforcing the terms and conditions of > the EULA according to their interpretation and their needs, if you > believe that MS will not change the rules for reactivation once non- > WPA Windows are no longer available or when they have a new version to > sell, I have a copy of Racing Legends here waiting for you. </joke> > > > [Legal Disclaimer] > I am not a lawyer, I just drive as if I'm chasing ambulances.